[ORPG] Shadows of Everwood

[Tukki]

We've been working on this for a long time 8D

It's mostly been reconstruction work, but we feel like our current concept works quite nicely - so hopefully no moar super delays.

About the interfaces; I used standard vJASS with a library called DGUI (find it at www.wc3c.net).
It allows translation between world and screen coordinates.

I've added some more eye-candy features like:

• Ragdoll effects when you overkill enemies. (I.e dealing 500 damage to a unit that has 10 will blow it away)
• Items are dropped à la Diablo-style.

Also, I've reworked some of the tooltip sections - and updated the Attribute panel.
Damage was removed, so I'm experimenting with a DPS-stat (much like D3) that will affect your skill damage/heal numbers.
Still experimenting though.

 

[gorillabull]

Just sounds better and better

 

[Adiktuz]

so finally decided to use DGUI... XD... awesome...

 

[Wolfe]

Tukki and I need your opinion!

We're renaming the 'intellect' stat as I've never really understood how intelligence = magical ability but we've come up with two potential replacements (this is all just for a name, btw).

• Mastery
• Aptitude

 

[Luorax]

"Mastery" all the way.

 

[Adiktuz]

Mastery seems a bit too general in my opinion...

 

[Luorax]

True, but the way aptitude is pronounced is quite weird IMO. I think it's more important how the word sounds - imagine how annoying saying an "ugly" word becomes after a while. Just look at "advertise" and all its other forms and you'll get what I meant.

I'd also like "Wisdom" or "Mentality".

 

[Adiktuz]

yeah, which is why I did not say that aptitude is my choice... actually, I cannot understand that word too...

Wisdom might be good...

or something inclined with "affinity to nature"

 

[Luorax]

How about "Insight"? Sounds cool, fits the theme, and not overused like Intelligence or Wisdom.

Oh, and will you release a demo, or something after the 4th class is revealed? I'd really like to try it out, but since I'm not a friend of anyone from the team, nor a member of it, I can't

Lastly, if I recall correctly, Wolfe mentioned that he can advertise projects in the main thread. Well, you can check out mine (link in the signature), and if you find it good enough, you can advertise it, I'd be glad if it was on the main page of this cool ORPG. Propably the best one I've ever seen so far with the new, cool features.

 

[phoenixfire]

I say Aptitude, sounds better than plain Mastery.
Mastery is a general and relative term, where it could apply to any part of a hero's statistics. There could be a mastery of weapons, cooking, fishing, making fires, etc.
The term is simply too broad IMO.

On the other hand, Aptitude is also a little broad.
Luorax's examples are similar to intelligence, which you already said you don't want.
Perhaps something such as "Mysticism" might be a good option, relating to magic.

However, of the 2 you provided, I would have to choose Aptitude.

EDIT: Insight is also related to Intelligence, and to quote Wolfe:

We're renaming the 'intellect' stat as I've never really understood how intelligence = magical ability but we've come up with two potential replacements (this is all just for a name, btw).

However, I do really like that one.

 

[Adiktuz]

I think insight is far more related to wisdom than intelligence...

 

[Luorax]

Proficiency and Supremacy are also cool.

 

[phoenixfire]

I think insight is far more related to wisdom than intelligence...

Wisdom and Intelligence are synonymous.

 

[khamarr3524]

According to your logic, pancakes and flapjacks are synonymous. So I win.

 

[wowhunter]

Wisdom and Intelligence are synonymous.

To be technical they do not mean the exact same thing. Intelligence is the capacity to gain and apply knowledge, while wisdom is just understanding and knowledge. In a sence a person can be the most intelligent person on the planet but have no wisdom because he/she were never taught and never tried to figure out anything for himself/herself because he/she lack the curiousity. Just being the nerd/fun killer here

 

[Wolfe]

Hm, I'm glad I've stirred up a discussion!

Luorax, I'd be happy to have Invasion in Duskwood on the front page!

If this helps, in lore, magic is not an acquirable thing. It forms part of a gene which can be either dominant or recessive, so you are basically born with it (I wont go into the scientific part of the concept). This is why I suggested maybe Aptitude, as the dictionary defines it as the innate capability of a person in a certain field.

Responding to Luorax regarding a demo - we could release one of the tutorial area once we have six classes up to scratch for early-game, but the tutorial area is being designed to be easy compared to the rest of the game where the difficulty begins steadily ramping up. However, we haven't had a good track record with demo's, so I'm not going to announce anything at this point.

 

[Adiktuz]

so that's why... hmmmm... it wouldn't be good as a stat name then, because aptitude can never be learned... if we just go with the original two, mastery would be the more stat-like, though maybe it just needs to be more specific... maybe something like arcane mastery...

 

[phoenixfire]

I must once again stay with my original response of Aptitude

If you are born with it, you can't technically master it, since that would imply you already know it.

 

[Adiktuz]

mastering it and being born with it or knowing it are different things...

if being born with it means you cannot "master" it, then it would mean that this discussion is senseless... why? because as the lore says, you are born with magic, so if you cannot really "master" it, then why add it as a stat? it's like, if you cannot master it, then you cannot actually even improve it... mastery is all about getting better at something, you don't aim for absolute mastery because that is a dead end...

and aptitude isn't something that can be improved...

 

[phoenixfire]

mastering it and being born with it or knowing it are different things...

if being born with it means you cannot "master" it, then it would mean that this discussion is senseless... why? because as the lore says, you are born with magic, so if you cannot really "master" it, then why add it as a stat? it's like, if you cannot master it, then you cannot actually even improve it... mastery is all about getting better at something, you don't aim for absolute mastery because that is a dead end...

and aptitude isn't something that can be improved...

That is what I was attempting to point out.
And aptitude is something that can be improved. Just because you have a natural ability to do something, doesn't mean you can't improve on it.

 

[Luorax]

Luorax, I'd be happy to have Invasion in Duskwood on the front page!

It'd be my pleasure to have to advertised on the SoE main page You can just take my signature with the link.

Responding to Luorax regarding a demo - we could release one of the tutorial area once we have six classes up to scratch for early-game, but the tutorial area is being designed to be easy compared to the rest of the game where the difficulty begins steadily ramping up. However, we haven't had a good track record with demo's, so I'm not going to announce anything at this point.

That's enough; I spent hours on running around and casting that ~20 spells my old ORPG project granted (2 classes, 2 out of the 4 talent trees were coded and sort of finished). We would like it.

Also, isn't the item description style familiar?

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6754/wc3scrnshot042912112744.jpg

 

[Tukki]

Just because you have a natural ability to do something, doesn't mean you can't improve on it.

^this.

I was thinking along lines of "Attunement", but then there's the aesthetic part of it:

+ 5 Attunement
+ 5 Mastery
+ 5 Aptitude
+ 5 Mysticism

I mean + 5 Attunement, or + 5 Mysticism? Sounds pretty weird to me.
At the moment, we're starting from "Arcane Power" and trying to reduce that 'feeling' into one word.

 

[Adiktuz]

then maybe arcane? or arcanology?

 

[Oziris]

Magic Power?
Insight?
Wisdom?
Spirit?

 

[phoenixfire]

then maybe arcane? or arcanology?

"Arcane" wouldn't make much sense. Arcanology, I don't believe is a word, and if it was, then I don't believe that the study of the arcane would fit well either.

I think that something like "Arcane Power" or "Magic Power" would fit good, though it's a bit long (would be better just one word.)

Magic Power?
Insight?
Wisdom?
Spirit?

I find Spirit and Magic Power the best choices of these, but Magic Power triumphs. I don't really believe "Spirit" is a good way to describe magic, which as Wolfe has said, you are born with in this game. But that might just be me.

 

[Adiktuz]

It's just a suggestion... we can always create our own words don't we?

 

[phoenixfire]

It's just a suggestion... we can always create our own words don't we?

I never said you couldn't, I said even if you did that would make no sense. The suffix "-logi" means "the study of." Therefore, Arcanology would be the study of the arcane, which I don't believe is precisely the case in this matter.

 

[Adiktuz]

maybe... it's just exactly my opinion, study of the arcane arts... XD

 

[phoenixfire]

Well, the way I saw the remark of them being born with it... it just doesn't seem to me that they would "study" it. I don't know, really, I might have just interpretted it that way.

 

[Wolfe]

Mhm, the Wizard and Pyromancer classes are the only mages who actually study the arcane in full.

 

[Wolfe]

Okay guys, another question we're putting before you for a matter of greater importance than a stat name! Wew!

We've been discussing how we want quests to play out and we couldn't come to a proper conclusion, so we wanted to ask you - how would you like to see quests? How would you like them to be presented? And how much of a part would you like to play in a quest?

For example, we used a quest called "Lost Caravan" as our guinea pig. This is a low-level tutorial quest which basically requires you to follow up on a supply caravan which was due to feed the starving refugees of The Bastion. We were discussing that perhaps randomly while you're doing other quests, the quest-giver (Lionmane Tandred) announces to a group of soldiers (you included) that the supply caravan hasn't arrived yet and The Bastion needs those supplies as soon as possible. So rather than going through the rudimentary process of receiving a quest, accepting it and leaving, you are offered the chance to do it while you're doing other things. Furthermore, when you find the caravan off the road, there are wounded soldiers and the soldiers remaining can't abandon them or the supplies so you have to take the time to defend them while they pack a few satchels of food and water for you to return to the people. After defending them, you get the satchels, return to Tandred, put the satchels in the supply depot which would actually affect things in The Bastion. For example:

• soldiers are better equipped
• bandit attacks on the roads are fewer
• the refugees are happier and healthier
• it has more appeal and attracts travelling merchants willing to make a quick buck

After a while of doing this (or not, you could leave the caravan to die), supplies run out, the caravan dies (mind you, a quest-giver is part of it) and the roads become volatile again. Additionally, the Bastion runs out of food as no one is delivering supplies to it. This could lead you to going to the capital to convince them to send supplies and escorting the caravans. Or, maybe this doesn't happen. Maybe, you find some herbs to heal the wounded, and escort the lost caravan back to The Bastion and hunt down the bandit leader of the area.

So yeah, discuss!

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

How would you like to see quests? How would you like them to be presented? And how much of a part would you like to play in a quest?

I hate the traditional "kill x of y", "deliver x to y", or other cliches.
Yet, I like how Bethesda did their quests. They combined the traditional cliche quest concepts to create grander and more original quests.

So, I dont wanna see those cliches, but, I wanna see combined cliches to seem as if though you are playing an awesome, new concept for a quest. The first quest/s should teach the player the basic game mechanics in a way that is not direct. Like, say, a barrel is found. Somebody approaches you and tells you that there might be some potions there. It would teach basic item gathering. It could also be that, say there would be a part where you pass by a big creature. You have an option to disturb it then kill it or sneak away.

I value choice in a games quests. Quest outcomes would be better if determined by the quest taker. Also, quest branching is better. Instead of the quest completion requirement being "Kill 10 wolves", make it say, "Talk to the Hunter. Search for evidences for the Hunters Brothers death (discover it was the wolves who did it). Avenge by killing 10 wolves. Hunter is unsatisfied. Go back and kill the Alpha Wolf and go back with its his hide/use the Hunters gun to kill it. Quest completed". Branching makes the game a lot better.

I dont want quest givers to lie around like a lazy bag, but at least send a friend/relative/family member or go themselves on the quest. Obviously, the death of the quest-giver/assistant would result in a quest failed. This would make players rely on teamplay more and try to kill off enemies while protecting an ally. Kinda like balancing offense and defence. This makes them more efficient players. If not sending an ally, it would be better to give the character an item. Say the quest givers lucky blade to avenge a relative slain by a bandit. Some quests may not require said pre-rewards though.

Also, no more repeatable quests whose causes are illogical. Say there is a quest where you need to slay wolves for their hide to brag to his friends. It would be non sense if he brags, brags, brags and brags. It could be something like slay a wolf for its hide because he wants some thicker clothes, who lives on a place up north. Yet, it would also be non sense to repeat this, say 15 times. It would cause him to be uber sweaty and look like a stuffed wolf. Repetition counters should be placed, allowing a certain amount of repeats. A good example for repetition would be a quest where a guy wants to get more gold, and this guy is greedy. Say he needs you to steal a gold pouch from anyone.

As for quest contribution, I want the character/party to play a significant role in the quests completion. The quest should revolve around the taker, but not 100%. Only a major significance.

So those are my thoughts. I didn't read the Lost Caravan part

 

[Tukki]

This will be a long post.
Find a TL;DR version at the bottom

-----
Thanks for the input! It helps a ton!

So somewhat subtle hints? That's something I'm actually exploring right now!

Quest branching is present. However, we'll probably do some objective masking on some quests to make them a little bit harder, instead of real branching.

Example: Instead of "Kill the Bandit Leader", there will be "Try to arrest the culprit".

We (at least I) haven't explored the possibility of giving items to heroes in advance (except for when required by the quest), but the escort thingy is something that you'll see at some points.

I thought along similar lines regarding the repeat-ability of quests. Although it was more focused on player-instanced questing.
Example: Player A retrieves a stolen gem. Should player B retrieve the same gem? Should we action another theft of perhaps another gem?
Thinking like this ultimately brought me and Wolfe to the current plan - quite similar to the Lost Caravan example, where you defend the caravan while they're packing satchels for you.

At the moment, there aren't very many repeatable quests.

Another aspect of questing is the failure part. What should you be able to do if you fail a quest?
Go back to the quest giver to restart it?

Consider below scenario and post your thoughts!:
Let's say that we have a camp that's under constant assault from centaur raiders.
If you choose to defend it until help arrives, which might take a while depending on how dangerous the roads are, he'll give you some follow-up quests.
However, if you fail to defend/let him die, you'll actually miss those quests.

I mean, the guy's dead. You can't just go back to where you came from and re-accept the quest.
Or can you?
------

TL;DR
Few repeatable quests, a lot of quest branching / objective masking.
Some NPC-activity, but in the end it will always be up to the player.

I'm trying to throw the whole "QUEST ACCEPTED", "QUEST COMPLETED" -part out of the window,
and re-create some things I've experienced while doing quests in various games.

We need your thoughts, perspectives and suggestions on this whole quest-system-setup!

 

[DSanhueza]

I really like this project, it seems like it will be a so much fun to play and that u can spend days playing it which is awesome. Cant wait to see a beta version, maybe? It would make me even more excited about its launch if i get a little taste before the full project is out!

Awesome set-up and organization guys, cant wait to see it done!

 

[Grey Nightmare]

@Tukki

While I love the notion of saving the guy/keep the quests, let the guy die/lose some quests - I don't think it'll work too well in a multiplayer format.

It'd be rather annoying if you couldn't do quest 5x because someone else playing had tried 3x and let NPC A (the giver for both) die.

If you can find away around that (You're punished by other player's actions in the world) then I'd love to see this kind of functionality!

 

[HeroSlayer]

a little off-topic:
I think it would be great to give the npc's routines, like sleep , eat and such. but not like in skyrim, in skyrim npcs sleep a lot, here we could make them sleep around 3 or 4 hours so that the players wont have to waaait too much to speak to them. as for traders, players could always buy from their shops, even if they are sleeping (with some assistant). The only thing that routines change is speaking with the npcs

 

[Tukki]

@DSanhueza

Thanks for the kind words!
We'll see about a BETA version 8D
We could perhaps release some kind of quest map that will showcase the quest system mechanics.
(If we find ourselves having one at the end of the day..)


@Grey Nightmare

Thanks for the input! But yeah, that's basically the worst and only drawback of the mechanic.
And while we want to put some great emphasis on team-play, it's not worth it if someone can fuck shit up/can be blamed for something (s)he didn't know.

That said, I still think it can be solved. Perhaps by forcing all those 'do or die' events to only occur when a couple of heroes, roughly the same level, are close by. (I.e not started by some random player)
That sort of kills the spontaneity/world-aliveness of the map, however.

So in the end, we're still trying to find workarounds


@HeroSlayer

Yeah, it's something nice and it also adds realism values.
Perhaps all the non-core (quest givers, vendors, quest targets etc..) will have some sort of daily routine.

However, all of the games that implement those 'day/night NPC cycle'-style systems, also have a sleep system.
So that you can just hit some hotkey, and sleep until they open up again.
I'm not sure that SoE will fit with a sleep mechanic, but it's not banned or something - variations are a good thing

 

[Adiktuz]

However, all of the games that implement those 'day/night NPC cycle'-style systems, also have a sleep system.

guilty... XD

I like wolfe's idea for the quests...

 

[HeroSlayer]

@HeroSlayer

Yeah, it's something nice and it also adds realism values.
Perhaps all the non-core (quest givers, vendors, quest targets etc..) will have some sort of daily routine.

However, all of the games that implement those 'day/night NPC cycle'-style systems, also have a sleep system.
So that you can just hit some hotkey, and sleep until they open up again.
I'm not sure that SoE will fit with a sleep mechanic, but it's not banned or something - variations are a good thing

I know every game that has sleep mechanics has a hotkey to jump hours of ingame time thats why it could be nice to give the npcs just a little time to sleep, not the common 8 hours
Another good idea would be like entering the npc home (only for unlocked houses) and waking him up and hearing him complain
" my gooood I am sleeeping, what is wrong with you?????"
or perhaps waking them up in their bench at the shop they work and hearing them say :
" ohhh sorry I needed some rest, do you need anything?"

just ideasss :B

 

[Wolfe]

Good, people are discussing!

There are some obvious drawbacks with being all dynamic and spontaneous with quests, but we want to design a quest system based on your input and of course how you guys want to play. We're designing this game with a mix of our desires in an ORPG and yours, so feel free to keep discussing, providing feedback and answering these sorts of public polls if you will.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

I do hate the Day/Night cycle with a Sleep System.
Sometimes when im at Area A and I fast travel back, the city where the Quest-Giver is, well asleep.
It could be shortened cycles or 5 hours. 8 hours is just required for teenagers, old people and kids. 3 - 4 hours seems for your workaholic.

Also, instead of HeroSlayers idea on the responses on waking up, maybe their reputation would make their response vary. If you dont buy from them/rarely talk to them, they wont wake up. Buying a lot from them/always talking would make them wake up most of the times.

-----------------------------

Now on the quests, if a guy is dead, he is dead. Its not super mario.
Unless, he has a relative who sort of resurrects people or a player resurrects him.

Maybe if you fail a quest, you shouldn't be able to repeat it, but a new quests opens up.
Say the Quest Giver has a wife. Quest Giver is killed while trying to accomplish the quest.
You can still accomplish the quest, maybe, but this would open up a new quests.
Say the husband (quest giver), was killed by a bandit gang. You would look for their leader and kill him.

On repeatable quests part, if Player A steals something, everyone shouldn't be able to steal it, unless this guy is a Gem Freak/Maniac.

 

[-Bloody Hound-]

Description is getting more and more perfect every time this map is so .. cant find a word to describe it.Excellent in every way

 

[Da Fist]

Yo! Da Fist in here. So, are you accepting ideas for heroes? I got one, you may (not) like it.

Shadow Dancer

"A man that threw away his soul to gain unbelievable power at night but very weak at daylight"

Gameplay:


PROS:
-Huge DPS dealer
-Fast attackspeed
-Can Meld to the dark
-Mob taker, solo hunter and heavy grinder
CONS:
-At daylight, attackspeed is halved
-Also, some skills cannot work at day
-Mid-late gamer, skills won't do much at early stages
-Low Def and HP making him vulnerable to powerful spells


~ Shadow Dancers at early game is very vulnerable, so they most likely to put {HP up and Attack Up} in their stats.
~ Though the Shadow Dancer is very vulnerable it can show pretty much good DPS.
~ Tactics for the Shadow Dancer is - Spam Spells, Disable, Attack, Meld, Repeat.
~ Costs HUGE mana. So Int type Shadow Dancers maybe common.
---------------------------------------------------------------

*Da Fist*

 

[Oziris]

Da Fist, we aim to ban solo playing from our game and make it all about teamwork.

 

[Wolfe]

Firstly...

• no, we are not taking class ideas but thank you for your input regardless
• your hero hasn't necessarily got much too it, just a name a miniscule story and pros/cons
• attack speed has been removed from the game
• we're not designing classes to be great at soloing or grinding, each class can do either or however as Oz said we do put an emphasis on teamwork
• the day/night system just wouldn't work - it would severely cripple the class and deter players from choosing it

But thank you for your idea! We do appreciate all suggestions.

 

[wowhunter]

I like the idea of that caravan quest, it is an overdone idea but not nearly as overdone as some random person having you kill some wolves and report back to him. I like having a good amount of quests be away from the "kill X monsters Y times" but at the same time i do not like having none of those, because it would stray too far from simplicity. The way I am, I like to have choice between doing something simple whenever I feel lazy or doing something different whenever I feel like something different.

Also, It'd be nice if there was a main questline, where you do a few quests when you making a new character, but then they start to become too difficult. At which point, there is an oppurtunity for optional quests to do. In which case usually the main quests would be major complex bosses and the non cliche quests, and the optional ones would be the simpler cliche quests and non major, simple bosses. Also a few non cliche quests that are optional. Basicly what i am getting at is i like an option of which type of quests to do.

 

[The_Witcher]

You were waiting for some fancy Pyromancer screenshots?

Well today we will release a Pyromancer class preview VIDEO for you so stay tuned

 

[The_Witcher]

Pyromancer Class Preview

An exciting look at our latest class, the pyromancer. In this video, I will explore the mechanic of the pyromancer and some of its skills.

Please note that this is just a preview, so i won't reveal every spell and the damage isn't balanced yet.

Have Fun
The_Witcher

 

[sonofjay]

An exciting look at our latest class, the pyromancer. In this video, I will explore the mechanic of the pyromancer and some of its skills.

Please note that this is just a preview, so i won't reveal every spell and the damage isn't balanced yet.

Have Fun
The_Witcher

The_Witcher have a soft, nice voice. plus rep its a nice preview. I really love the dodge spell

 

[Adiktuz]

The_Witcher has a nice voice... XD