LLS v0.22b beta

[Vaarj]

I think there might be a crash bugg with the hero zeus[forgot the name, but that the dota look]. I played 3 straight pub game when someone picked zeus and when he reach lvl 6 it crashes.

I can confirm that, using the Ironbreaker's ultimate crashes the game, you should get that fixed as soon as possible..

 

[xenoche]

Damn, thats a major problem, fixing soon as possible.

Thank for the replay, I'll watch it right now.

 

[BlackCat500]

I'll test 0.21b now, though when I just played 0.21a alone I noticed one doesn't stand much of a chance against the vanquisher wave as a mage, because they are immune to magic...The boss of that wave blinked to me so I had to deal with him instead of the vanquishers and after I killed the boss the next wave spawned already so I had 4 waves + 1 boss stuck behind the vanquishers..when I finally defeated some of the vanquishers (not even all, and look how long it took!) the waves behind the vanquishers (demons with hexing and everything, rendering you unable to do anything) owned my whole base without me being able to resist. Dunno if it's intended to be that way, but I found it rather disturbing. I forgot to save the replay though, I was playing as statizar. Anyway, I like the changes of 0.21a, finally some other professions stand a chance too..although I do have to admit the stone bomb ability is quite useless when trying it solo, due to your health always being down to nothing

 

[FrozenFenrir]

A dueling weapon is light and maneuverable, allowing consecutive critical attacks to deal bonus damage. Dueling weapons are fighter only weapons.

I'm gonna add special item types for each class eventually, so far, casters/priests have Wands of Magic Amp that increases critical chance, fighters are going to have dueling weapons and captains are going to get battle standards that grand various auras. Tanks and Rangers I'm yet to think of a special item, any suggestions would be appreciated.

hm...tanks should get items which reduce the recieved dmg and eventually reflect dmg
and rangers...maybe something which increases their range or make them able to summon a pet to guard them.

 

[Misha]

hm...tanks should get items which reduce the recieved dmg and eventually reflect dmg
and rangers...maybe something which increases their range or make them able to summon a pet to guard them.

I most cetainly agree on that. Played as a tank.... wasn't that good =/

 

[slasherxx]

just played 1 game of .21b and shrine doesnt give mana regen now?
I think the advance armor that u raise cost too much now, it was better as it was. 40k to 67k?[i think it was that] is a too high increase in price.

 

[xenoche]

Ok, I'm having real difficulty balancing LLS. I buff and it's to easy, I nerf all the wrong things, now its way too hard.

"Oh mighty gods of game balance, I know not what I'm doing"

BlackCat500
Dammit, Vanquishers should have magic resistance, not immunity, sorry for you disturbing game.

FrozenFenrir
I am in the prossess of designing a class specific item for tanks that has the block ability and the addition of pets is planned to be included, but I'm waiting for 0.21 to be balanced enough that I feel confidant adding such a dramatic change. I'm hoping 0.21c will be the last of the 0.21 series and I can start adding new features.

slasherxx
Shrine mana regen was unnecessary and made mana pots pretty redundant.
Item costs are something I'll be continually working on.

EDIT: Once again I find another game breaking bug, I'll fix it within the hour.
EDIT2: I, as well as any players out there, are probably fed up with all these damn bugs, SO, before releasing 0.21c I'm going to test this tonight, all night, to ensure minimal issues. Anyone that's on US east at the time feel free to come and join in the festivities as I iron out the bugs of LLS.

 

[slasherxx]

played .21b again and got to the aether drake part. They dominately everyone in like 1 sec and the heart die in 1 sec, are they suppose to be this powerful? We were heavy gear with alot of tomes too.

Has anyone ever beaten the game?

 

[CloudMax]

Has anyone ever beaten the game?

I dont think so. Atleast without cheating.

 

[Misha]

I dont think so. Atleast without cheating.

Hahaha i tried cheating and got owned also. FINALY a game that beats cheaters xD although cheating the godmod cheat is some kind of a bug.. maybe but a damn good bug xD

~Misha~

 

[CloudMax]

LTGH Says: Whosyourdaddy
aether drake: Im your daddy!!!
SPLAT
something like that. Really, fix the aether drakes..

 

[xenoche]

0.21c: Last Nights Tests

Well, after last nights lengthily testing schedule, I managed to re-tweak the entire creep line up from level 1-9 (including the insane drakes).

Tonight I'm going to host another round of testing 0.21c to finalize creep balance (and hopefully ,for the first time, finish the game). Obviously after finalizing creep balance I can more accurately balance hero skills (not that I haven't tried).

If all goes well tonight (after last nights success, I don't see why not), i'll release 0.21c tomorrow. If you happen to be on US east come and test it out (note for those in different time zones, testing will begin in about 6 hours).

 

[Doraeminemon]

S2 this map. Try to improve it further and also, add some more heroes

 

[xenoche]

S2 this map. Try to improve it further and also, add some more heroes

S2? whats that?

I am trying to improve it, this is by no means a finished product.

 

[slasherxx]

random doesn't random all the hero, it mostly random 3-5 hero total. I alway get the same hero when i random, please fix this.

 

[xenoche]

Thank you for bringing it to my attention slasherxx

random doesn't random all the hero, it mostly random 3-5 hero total. I alway get the same hero when i random, please fix this.

I took your concern seriously, so I did some testing of the randomicalisticality of the random feature, the results are on my development thread here.

 

[Skopetski]

imo make all spells scale, heroes like the priest has one decent scaling spell that you basically need to stack armor and hp gear to be able to get off, his mana regen+slow talent is useless,
his main dmg spell has way to low dmg and long cd mana+hp return is bad cause it doesn't scale.
And ALL agi melee heroes suck cause you're forced to take the tank armor cause else you're gonna go down way 2 fast.
imo change it so you can use both the lifesteal and dmg, or change the 29 str and 29 int to just pure hp so you don't get gibbed at boss waves.
I feel that having increased spawn points depending on players ruins your ability to choose class.
atm you pretty much need 1 tank or 1 healer at every spawn if you wish to come far.
(i never played with over 2 players so i could be wrong about how this works)

I really want to say that this is my favourite hero defense map and i played ALOT of hero defense games, good job and keep up the hard work!

 

[xenoche]

I've made many changes regarding 0.22, it's a matter of testing. Since testing has been near impossible, I'm just gonna post it soon.

 

[herro_master]

one of the few times i was graced to play this we had five and as long as you have captains and a healer you should be fine i mean we had the orc and the pally captains and we could survive from three lanes and only having 5 people kinda took us down a notch but we still got to level three with almost no problem and if i didn have to go afk we would have been able to go farther

and again good job more mini testing will be done with my friends at home next week
-herro

 

[herro_master]

and if you can release .22 before wednesday next week that would be cool so we can test that one instead of the current version


-herro

 

[xenoche]

Thats the plan, I'm just completing the new GSU upgrades and a hero remake. Should be ready by tomorrow now that I seemed to have fixed all the major bugs.

 

[herro_master]

kk thx man i like playing the newest of anything so ummmm thx again and ima look forward to whatever is new

 

[Doraeminemon]

S2? whats that?

I am trying to improve it, this is by no means a finished product.

S2 is the heart - draw the S and 2 next to each other and be imagine
Love this map, but some spell should be scale or they are almost useless in late game ...

 

[Skopetski]

the aether drakes or whatever their names are is still retarded i've never gotten them past them

 

[Tanasren]

The wave of treants sux hard :x

The return damage spell (thorn aura) works on SPELLS and on RANGED attacks -_-
So i guess the lifesteal item too.
And as for the burning flames attack from treants, this is so imba :x, can't avoid it.

 

[Sooty]

Golem's HP-based damage is imba. Oneshotting a lot of stuff until level 9... at which Phoenixes kills everyone in seconds. Not to mention extremely high hp = imba regen because fountain regens based on max hp. Me and my friends were getting pwned but the Golem's high hp managed to tank all the tiny creeps but the boss.

This map is really really fun though!

 

[slasherxx]

version 0.22: A bugg with the tome system, when you buy a tome, it upgrade your stats and you get to keep the book to sell back.

 

[xenoche]

version 0.22: A bugg with the tome system, when you buy a tome, it upgrade your stats and you get to keep the book to sell back.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, 0.22a is a quick update to remedy that issue.

 

[Leik]

A group of six friends continually made it at least to level five, even going as far as level seven; I believe.

As it is now, only tanks seem to be the only viable hero, with some heroes easily making 200-600k and more while others struggle to reach even the floor of some.

The throw stars ability on the... Akama-model hero rarely seems to throw all three, sometimes even none at all. The ability for the damage to focus would be nice as well as otherwise the damage easily pales in comparison to some heroes. I will however say that it quickly gave me the highest 'crit' when all three crit at once. However, I was easily surpassed by the Tauran Chieftain hero.

As of now my favourite hero has to be the the one NE hero with the backstab attack, she outputs immense damage as well as being able to fend for herself in all situations. However, her ult is so very un-dazzlling. I mean what, a permanent boost to MS and ASPd?

The least favourite part of the map has got to be the green filter/fog. It adds a nice atmosphere, I guess.. It's not that hard to become accustomed to. But, it's a rather annoying nag at the back of my head. It would be far nicer to have a clear screen.

The items are pretty great, a Fortis armour holds out easily until an Ultimus Light/Heavy armour is able to be purchased. I bought the heavy mostly for the +hp as it's immensely useful over just the flat HP/MP boost the rings give (these items are my least favourite. Yay, I get life and that's it? I get a boost to mana when my mana barely ever runs out?).

Runes have to be my love-hate portion able to only carry one when there's three different sets of them, the melee damage and the crit multiplier being the only worthwhile ones as it's far more efficient to kill them faster than rely on HP return.

I really enjoy the artillery barrage and have only been killed by them once as I was running to the heart for HP heals. Watching the casters blow up was hilarious to watch as there's no reason why they cannot just buy an armour and be done with the whole affair, making them far more useful.

Psychic bomb seems only trigger properly *Some* of the time with myself being clearly the target and taking no damage despite the damage sometimes being over my current HP.

The banking system is cumbersome, being unable to hotkey it for easy access one must scroll or click over to it, click the rather *small* unit and then hit the hotkey/click another button and then return to microing your hero. (which unless you're a tank you can't easily do, most heroes require a moderate amount babysitting.)

Spell books are 100% useless as their cooldowns are long, the abilities unworth it, ability to only use one at a time with pitiable damage for the cost.
that's just my sole opinion in the extreme. I have however witnessed statements that they're *okay* but not great and *useful* if used sparingly and at appropriate times. Which are few and far between.

The map however is immensely fun with a strong sense of immersion, great gameplay and structurally sound save for one critical error. The crit system is by far the best idea thus far.

I also have several replays upon further request as I would have to look through the auto saved replays, blizzard is 100% fail in not providing an auto-name feature ($mapname...)

 

[xenoche]

Thx for the feedback

A group of six friends continually made it at least to level five, even going as far as level seven; I believe.

As it is now, only tanks seem to be the only viable hero, with some heroes easily making 200-600k and more while others struggle to reach even the floor of some.
What version are you playing, I've done alot of tweaking of creep stats over the last few versions, so if your not playing 0.22a it may be alot different.

The throw stars ability on the... Akama-model hero rarely seems to throw all three, sometimes even none at all. The ability for the damage to focus would be nice as well as otherwise the damage easily pales in comparison to some heroes. I will however say that it quickly gave me the highest 'crit' when all three crit at once. However, I was easily surpassed by the Tauran Chieftain hero.
Ahh yes, tri-star throw. That does need fixing. I'm going to do some more testing, now that creeps are about the difficulty I want, will make it easier to buff/nerf/change heroes that don't meet the grade.

As of now my favourite hero has to be the the one NE hero with the backstab attack, she outputs immense damage as well as being able to fend for herself in all situations. However, her ult is so very un-dazzlling. I mean what, a permanent boost to MS and ASPd?
I agree whole heartedly that her ultimate is a bit lame, but I will continue to develop the current heroes, including her, to make them more interesting.

The least favourite part of the map has got to be the green filter/fog. It adds a nice atmosphere, I guess.. It's not that hard to become accustomed to. But, it's a rather annoying nag at the back of my head. It would be far nicer to have a clear screen.
I'll add a function next update that allows players to turn it off and on.

The items are pretty great, a Fortis armour holds out easily until an Ultimus Light/Heavy armour is able to be purchased. I bought the heavy mostly for the +hp as it's immensely useful over just the flat HP/MP boost the rings give (these items are my least favourite. Yay, I get life and that's it? I get a boost to mana when my mana barely ever runs out?).
You must not be playing the latest version, as heavy armour no longer grants hitpoints. Mana costs I need to work on before I release the next version, because you are right.

Runes have to be my love-hate portion able to only carry one when there's three different sets of them, the melee damage and the crit multiplier being the only worthwhile ones as it's far more efficient to kill them faster than rely on HP return.
Maybe the 1-per restriction shouldnt be there, or I need to buff the other runes.

I really enjoy the artillery barrage and have only been killed by them once as I was running to the heart for HP heals. Watching the casters blow up was hilarious to watch as there's no reason why they cannot just buy an armour and be done with the whole affair, making them far more useful.
Attacks per Demonic barrage has been reduced (they are still painful, just not instagib).

Psychic bomb seems only trigger properly *Some* of the time with myself being clearly the target and taking no damage despite the damage sometimes being over my current HP.
Odd, I have noticed that sometimes it targets dead heroes (lucky for the players), but that will be fixed next version.

The banking system is cumbersome, being unable to hotkey it for easy access one must scroll or click over to it, click the rather *small* unit and then hit the hotkey/click another button and then return to microing your hero. (which unless you're a tank you can't easily do, most heroes require a moderate amount babysitting.)
That is a good point, next version when you press the esc key, it will automatically select the gold vault. And press it again to select your hero. Great idea, thanks.

Spell books are 100% useless as their cooldowns are long, the abilities unworth it, ability to only use one at a time with pitiable damage for the cost.
that's just my sole opinion in the extreme. I have however witnessed statements that they're *okay* but not great and *useful* if used sparingly and at appropriate times. Which are few and far between.
Spellbooks may very well need a remake or be removed as I do think at the moment, they are pretty un-useful.

The map however is immensely fun with a strong sense of immersion, great gameplay and structurally sound save for one critical error. The crit system is by far the best idea thus far.

Glad you enjoyed playing it. May I ask what the one critical error is?.

 

[Sooty]

The banking system is cumbersome, being unable to hotkey it for easy access one must scroll or click over to it, click the rather *small* unit and then hit the hotkey/click another button and then return to microing your hero. (which unless you're a tank you can't easily do, most heroes require a moderate amount babysitting.)

Spell books are 100% useless as their cooldowns are long, the abilities unworth it, ability to only use one at a time with pitiable damage for the cost.

I totally agree with these points. Having a function to auto-deposit any money you gain from killing enemies would be very helpful. As would the ability to have your own bank so that you can hotkey him.

The colour scheme might need some rethinking. The items are just invisible in their brown bags on the brown floor. And the brown coloured message that tells us which direction the waves are coming from is also quite invisible because of this. Also, the enemies are also invisible on the minimap unless you activate allied colours (which then they turn red).

Another really frustrating thing is the slippery slope from dying. When someone dies, 1) Hero takes time to revive while creep waves continue to spawn 2) Lumber is reduced 3) Nearby creeps get stronger 4) Creeps surround the spawning area 5) Achievement bonus is lost 6) Heroes respawn with little mana. That's just too many penalties from dying, making it really frustrating when someone dies.

The fog of war for some of the areas sometimes tend to cover the demonic buildings, and if you miss the minimap ping or forget where the location is then we don't know which of two lanes it is on, which is again annoying. And if we forget about them entirely... can be more player-friendly by revealing those areas which the buildings can spawn.

And not sure if you had saw my earlier post - I mentioned the Golem's Imbaness and the level 9 phoenixes which instagib heroes. But that's on 0.21 of course.

 

[Skopetski]

i disagree that tanks are the only viable, i've played up to the aether dragons 3-4 times with different combos.
a agi melee hero with lifesteal is pretty insane coupled with a healer, the casters (or the ones with scaling skills) are also really good and fun to play.

The banking system is kind of a pain in the ass you should be able to use autobank.
spellbook is decent cause having a second heal and being able to slow a boss may sometimes save you, buff the heal and change the fireball to an AOE and it will be fine.

 

[Leik]

To be brutally honest I don't know. It's happened once in 21a.
I'm currently looking through my replays to find all the LLS ones to RAR then send, if you wish that is. These are all played with close friends in ventrilo so this is the *best* I guess you can do in terms of pure gameplay.

I read your change log before posting, I wasn't too found of the armour change, it's virtually the same as the evasion with the exception of evasion blocking 100% damage 45% of the time.

The demonic events (to elaborate) aren't much of a nuisance, I found they could be buffed at points as they're not that fearsome if you're playing at a skilled level. (The only problem we had was with the demonic artillery, we're all fond of the instagibbing, even if we're gibbed several times )

Toss me a PM with contact info if you want me to further discuss the map, we also have access to ventrilo for even easier discussion

(not 100% sure if warcraft iii auto-saves replays after a critical error)
((other friends also have replays, I can obtain them as well))

 

[xenoche]

Skopetski:
Auto bank is an idea so obvious, I'm surprised I hadn't thought of it. Next version I'll add an auto bank function.

Leik
If you could send me those replays, that would be awesome.
0.22a did bring a significant change to heavy armors, which I will closely watch.

 

[FrozenFenrir]

about the new class items...
i forgot about that and bought an ultimus armor with my wisp and gave it to my dwarfen gunner...well...
it dissappeared and i didnt get anything back
=/
1. u should mention it that its a class item (red font color)
2. it should dissappear +give full gold value back if its bought by urself

 

[herro_master]

i was pulling a self test and yes the armors are helpful and the captain hero types hold up on thier own rather nicely playing as Herro the new captain i can treally find any fault except to not get the crit spell first

 

[herro_master]

it gets harder after level one but hey made it to level three with Herro The Master

 

[Doraeminemon]

I don't know if someone beat it but what I got it's just lv8 ( after the doom-boss level ).
But after I got all the ultimus pack my keyboard almost break with the tome-buying.Should add some tome +5 +10 stat for each.

Also I think the guardian of each shrine and heart should be scale with the creeps.At my level they are very fragile.

The tome only good with the heal skill.No manacost and heal instantly.The gracial-skill(i don't remember exactly - the slow effect skill ) was no use at all.The fire bolt quite average when killing boss.You should work on it, order to add some more effective and scaling skill(invulnerable in some seconds for example ), or + some more stat for the user.

Ranger could be the most useless race after all.You should add for them some more advantage than the fighter( maybe more crit. chance) , and the cast range of the spell should be longer ( as long as the attack range ).

The attack-me skill of the tanker should have greater attack-me range( about 1k range )

 

[kyle150]

Played the game again:


Negatitive Points:
-Lost because our team got entangled over and over, the mobs ignored us and had beaten the main building down while we couldn't do anything.
-Hit level cap... Should increase it beyond 25, even level stats would be nice to continue recieving.
-Spawn Camped: We got overrun, and every time we respawned we could not do anything.
-Time between rounds. Hard to buy/sell/deposit in a short time
-Items are hard to see on the ground. When I first played the game I thought the items were part of the scenary.


Recommendations:
-Additional Host Option: Time between rounds

-Move Spawn location
-Or Turn the Middle building into 4 seperate buildings in which any of the 4 dieing is end-game.

-Raise Level cap to 100 ~no-limit

-Re-evaluate the skills on units. Spam disable is like losing in Dota. F10-e-q-q

 

[Doraeminemon]

Played the game again:


Negatitive Points:
-Lost because our team got entangled over and over, the mobs ignored us and had beaten the main building down while we couldn't do anything.
Disagreed.Just buy the ultimus amulet and you'll alive and also caster and ranger could still fire.Tanker also can cast spell.

-Hit level cap... Should increase it beyond 25, even level stats would be nice to continue recieving.
You can buy more tome for increasing stat.In the late-level the bounty you have in vault was awesome.


-Spawn Camped: We got overrun, and every time we respawned we could not do anything.
Agree

-Time between rounds. Hard to buy/sell/deposit in a short time
Agree

-Items are hard to see on the ground. When I first played the game I thought the items were part of the scenary.
I saw it the 1st time :|


Recommendations:
-Additional Host Option: Time between rounds

-Move Spawn location
-Or Turn the Middle building into 4 seperate buildings in which any of the 4 dieing is end-game.

-Raise Level cap to 100 ~no-limit

-Re-evaluate the skills on units. Spam disable is like losing in Dota. F10-e-q-q

Just some opinion of mine

 

[xenoche]

You make some good points

Played the game again:


Negatitive Points:
-Lost because our team got entangled over and over, the mobs ignored us and had beaten the main building down while we couldn't do anything.
I'm not going to remove the disables (I may nerf or buff). Its a mechanic that the defending heroes have to deal with, of course some can deal with it better than others, but that's the point, to find weakness in your defense. Doraeminemon has already adequately pointed out the ways to cope with their annoyance.

-Hit level cap... Should increase it beyond 25, even level stats would be nice to continue recieving.
I am considering improving the level cap to 30 and skill levels to 6 (to help with some heroes having a scaling problem, either to powerful early, or not enough).

-Spawn Camped: We got overrun, and every time we respawned we could not do anything.
Next version I will make heroes invulnerable for 5 seconds after reviving to help alleviate that problem.

-Time between rounds. Hard to buy/sell/deposit in a short time
The bank can be used anywhere on the map, so I see no problem there. Now that all creeps are cleared once the boss is dead, I've found that I've got ample time to sell and buy. Are you playing version 0.22a?

-Items are hard to see on the ground. When I first played the game I thought the items were part of the scenary.
That is something players quickly get used to, however I may increase the size of items, to make them a bit more noticeable.

Thank's forteh feedback

 

[herro_master]

pulled a major self test
and found that the easiest way to not get caught in hexlock or the like is to remember that there ARE antimagic potions but i never bought them the captain class is pretty well suited to owning everything they can if they aren't busy saving their teammates from dieing with the armor shout and even though i was by myself some hereos can take the waves for a long time before they crack and die i mean i got to round 4 with the martial artist and then died and lost on the dragon turtles because i coulden cope with the damage i was taking but anyway every thing seems up and running well enough and the items aren't that hard to see after the bosses started to drop the fortis things i noticed the others and after you see them youy wont not see them later

-herro

 

[Doraeminemon]

pulled a major self test
and found that the easiest way to not get caught in hexlock or the like is to remember that there ARE antimagic potions but i never bought them the captain class is pretty well suited to owning everything they can if they aren't busy saving their teammates from dieing with the armor shout and even though i was by myself some hereos can take the waves for a long time before they crack and die i mean i got to round 4 with the martial artist and then died and lost on the dragon turtles because i coulden cope with the damage i was taking but anyway every thing seems up and running well enough and the items aren't that hard to see after the bosses started to drop the fortis things i noticed the others and after you see them youy wont not see them later

-herro

Quite hard to understand a post without dots.
Anyway use antimagic potion not a bad idea to deal with boss, especially the panda one

 

[herro_master]

well im punctuationally challenged so its my problem and he can understand it

ive pmed him a few times almost exactly like that

 

[herro_master]

oh Doreaminemon its my train of thought form earlier comments so it makes sense if you have actually tried to stream of conciousness writing which i amost always do even now i am doing it because its easy and hwat i do best

 

[herro_master]

the skills annoyance was present with the fire wall and the viper form (elven pyromancer and martial artist respectively

 

[xenoche]

the skills annoyance was present with the fire wall and the viper form (elven pyromancer and martial artist respectively

It what way are those skills annoying? If I could change them in some way to make them batter, I'm all for it.

 

[herro_master]

they paused me i coulden't do anything while casting them id use firewall and the hero's options for movement and spells was gone for a little bit(like>a second but it stopped me form continuing the own

 

[xenoche]

Ahah, thanks for pointing that out, I've already started a list of spells that unnecessarily pauses your hero, I'll add that one. Next version I'm getting rid of all of the unnecessary pauses based on channel.

 

[herro_master]

thank god for that one because it took out valuable reaction time(running in terror from the enemies chaseing me around the gaian heart) and spazzing out when he blinked around the whole damn place hitting things so thanx

and how do you upload replays because id like to do that for you

its tomorrow YAY
-herro