Zergs

[RegisteredID]

I am not sure, but there is no zerg units that is anti armor?

 

[Statharas]

Pure anti armor, no. If you are thinking of siege tanks, use roaches, and if you're thinking of Thors, use zerglings. Armor is not the only weakness of a unit.

 

[PurplePoot]

Roaches are a really bad idea against siege tanks. Lings are far better, or obviously Mutalisks or Brood Lords if those are practical to get and based on what is guarding the tanks. Ultralisks are good against Siege Tanks too but it's unlikely they'll be good against whatever is accompanying them.

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However, counters are not determined by attack bonuses.

 

[RegisteredID]

i know what u mean but am i right that they do not have units that deals bonus damage to armored. Isn't it a little unfair? Sure i know that dealing bonus damage does not mean instant winning, but it gives an advantage.

Quick example, terran has units on every tier that has anti armor.

marauder/siege/thors > roach/ultralisk

All the zerg's tank are countered on all 3 tiers of the terrain's arsenal.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Thors are not anti armored. They deal the same damage to all armor types.
Curropters have bonus damage against all massive air units which I think all of them are armored.

I remember ultralisks having some form of anti armored bonous at some stage, but last time I checked this was removed.

Thors do not counter ultralisks and lings as far as I have heard.

You must also remeber that zerg has prety high DPS, hydralisks deal huge ammounts for their cost, same with lings. They also have banlings which can obliterate terran armies if they are not careful. Late game they have access to broodlords which own nearly all ground units which forces the terran to get more vikings.

 

[RegisteredID]

i understand tactics and etc. But i got my answer. Zergs do not have anti armored units.

I guess im wrong about the thors.

Banelings are situational. They take alot of skills to play properly and effectively.

 

[Crayons]

The reason why there are no anti-armor zerg is that the zerg are superior in numbers and in health(regen). If there is an anti-armor zerg, then that would make them completely imbalanced. They defeat armored units through sheer numbers.

 

[doombringer]

Zerg's only unit that deal bonus damage to armored is the Ultralisk but roach and hydra deal a lot of dps against most armored units regardless of there lack of bonus dmg.

Zerg is a lot more about softer counters that react to your opponent's compositions and getting a strong economy.

If you having trouble with thor+siege tank you should try using broodlords with ling or queen support as the thors anti air attack is terrible against large units.

 

[PurplePoot]

I repeat, counters are not determined by attack bonuses. For example, Roaches do a flat amount of damage while Stalkers get a +4 versus armoured, so Stalkers counter Roaches, right? Wrong. Roaches actually beat Stalkers.

You could see a lack of bonuses as a disadvantage (softer counters) or an advantage (more versatility).

 

[RegisteredID]

You could see a lack of bonuses as a disadvantage (softer counters) or an advantage (more versatility).

i understand, but i have nvr thought of that. thanks for that perspective.

FUN FACT: Terran has no melee unit other than SCVs

 

[Dr Super Good]

Which is not really a bad thing considering how melee does not allow for effective focuse fire.

 

[RegisteredID]

Which is not really a bad thing considering how melee does not allow for effective focuse fire.

I guess it's situational.. cause usually the ranged units are the one that deals the damage.

 

[PurplePoot]

Which is not really a bad thing considering how melee does not allow for effective focuse fire.

But melee units also tend to have the best stats/cost in the game.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Yes to compensate for the damage they will receive trying to get into range to even attack. Send a huge wave of ultralisks against a huge wave of siege tanks (siege mode) and it is likly most of the ultralisks would have died before even getting into range. Likewise, sending armies of zealots against stimmed marines and maurders, they will mostly die before getting into range.

We all are aware however that an unpreparied zeargling run (nothing to stop them running into your base) can easilly kill your workers/main building. Sending zerglings however against a proper range army (like siege mode tanks with marine/maurders) will usually be suicidal.

 

[PurplePoot]

Actually Ultralisks crush Siege Tanks. Range is good but it isn't everything. Similarly, chargelots smash MM unless you catch them in a choke (ie so most can't attack at any given time). Also, depending on upgrades and composition Marine/Tank can be in a really bad spot against mass Zergling, since the siege tanks hurt you as much as they help and until you reach critical mass of Marines Zerglings beat them cost efficiently.

 

[Samurai_Gal666]

Roach+Hydralisk rush is good.... Zerg is more fun to play than other race for me....

 

[doombringer]

yeh i have recently been using ultralisks and infestors a fair bit when against Terran rather than mutas. also I used to use Roach/Hydra in ZvP but now prefer more pure roach play with my gas in upgrades and only use hydra if they are going heavy Immortal.

How you guys finding that zerg play is changing?
Who is looking forward to the Infestor Change?

 

[Samurai_Gal666]

Well... I haven't played SCII in a while since my laptop burned out So now I just mod War3 maps...... XP

 

[Sevion]

As many people have already said many times before, Zerg is a reactive race. More of a cushion than anything. They absorb everything and toss it all back full force.

 

[Alterlisk]

Also often overlooked is the fact that even though you have a tech such as metabolic boost, it should not be considered mandatory tech. lings (both kinds) and roaches without their speed techs move about as fast as hydras off creep. (coincidence?) Likewise, ultras, teched roaches, and teched banelings move at roughly the same speed. As do teched zerglings and mutas. This allows your force to hit as a ball quite well, without watching your lings get slaughtered before the roaches have a chance to "tank" for them. Plus, the gas you saved from not teching it puts you 100 gas or more closer to your next build goal. Be it a faster hatchery morph, or an earlier spire. Funny part about zerg, it doesn't matter how BA one strain is. What matters is how BA the whole swarm is.

And really, does the 8 sec group snare dot really need a buff? If you say yes then make it only hit ground. Since life % based bonus damage to armored will tear up any air in ridiculous ways except for banshees and phoenix. And spell damage is uninfluenced by armor. Raspberries are fine for dealing with BCs, just try not wasting resources on units for frontal assaults you know will fail and you might just get to the top tier units faster than you think. However, in defense of the zerg as a race and to players, they are rather incomplete imho from a design standpoint. The castables are really just poor filler. Go Changeling! But we had to get something to make up for spawn broodlings, right? "Well they do get a unit, that sounds zergy right?"

 

[doombringer]

And really, does the 8 sec group snare dot really need a buff?

If your talking about Fungal Growth then

1: it only lasted 4 seconds
2: the new buff means less stun making it less effective versus certain units (banshee harrass comes to mind)
3: The bonus damage to armored makes Voidray/stalker balls far less frightening midgame as hydras are currently fairly situational

Overall I'm really enjoying the buff to Infestors makes certain protoss pushes far less scary though the reduction of stun time makes it far less powerful for delaying.

 

[Alterlisk]

Ah, very true about the duration. However, the damage was not reduced with this reduction so in a sense it was compressed. I agree that hydras are too situational with their rather sluggish movement off creep. They are pretty much anti-air defense which is kinda sad since both queens and spore crawlers fill this role well while saving you gas. This is an improvement over SC1's move speed research that made them a horrifying bio ball from hell in masses though. At least opponents have time to field a defense this time around. If you are laying a highway though, they make excellent guards for queens with a little support from roaches and lings, the latter being for "overkill waste tanking" in the case of slow heavy damage units like Thors or Siege Tanks.
No matter what though, ranged units usually mono mass pretty badly like stalks and rines. But where is the "baneling" equivalent for stalkers? Ultras? Broodlords at max range? Not bad for a tier 1.5. They are by no means invincible, but still very tough for their cost. Same thing with hydra DPS though. Double marines, 2x damage at same speed, about 2x the hp w/o shield, double the "supply" use. Then why do they cost an extra 50 gas? Because you can easily hatch 12 or more of them simultaneously, without worry about a queue. In the time it takes to make one stalker. (without a chrono boost) provided you have the control and resources to do it. The trap with zerg is evolving your forces into a corner to be hard countered. You should always be hatching or building something, just don't build the same something all the time or your enemy will easily counter you by focusing their build. Of course, since you don't have queue you can do the same thing right back. Place a few corruptors a little was out from their base and morph them into broods (keep a couple as corruptors to take out any air defense though.) once they get their forces almost to your base, for example. Then it's time to make a choice Executor. Or bait the stalkers into blinking in before bringing in the banelings and hydras. Or you could build lots of queens to replace a lack of roaches and hydras. And heal tank them down. But the damage saturation exceeds the heal's cast time so what's the point there? Don't get me wrong though transfusion on an ultra pack would toast a stalker ball quite well provided you could reach the little blue spiders... and void rays? Just give me back my Scourges Blizz. XD
But just some thoughts. In the end numbers are what makes it a fun game right?

 

[Dr Super Good]

One of zergs main weaknesses is the lack of splash damage.

They have 3 options for splash.
1. banlings. This works well early on but against late game tech like colossus/templar or sieged tanks near usless due to melee range and easy death.
2. ultralisks. The toughest unit in the game with prety nice damage but has a huge cost. Again melee so their use can be limited as any choke ruins their usability.
3. infestor. Aparenlty this has been buffed as it now deals higher dps so I need to retest but in theory it can be great on mobs.

Although each of these sources is not bad, one must remember what the other races have for splash.
Terran
1. Hellion. Large piercing splash if used at melee range but does have a range of its own. Extra damage against light units (nearly all low tier units like lings, marines and zealots).
2. Nuke. Prety crap on its own due to its huge warning but can be employed tactically to force enemy positions to move.
3. Siege tank siege mode. Huge range, high damage, high splash. Prety formidibal defenive unit but easilly killed on its own. Large numbers can be extreemly difficult to stop on ground due to their range and splash and taking a choke from them is extreemly difficult.

Protoss
1. colossus. Huge range, huge damage and wide area. 1 hits lings and roasts marines easilly.
2. high templar. Totally destroys armies with its high damage high area psyonic storm.

Unlike the other races, the zerg have no ranged splash attacking unit. Infestors are useful but can not outrange colossus or sieged tanks.

To make up for this, they have seriously strong air units. Curropters make late game air like battlecruisers and carriers nearly usless to deploy. Broodlords are the longest ranged air attack unit in the game and arguably the most damaging unit to land forces. Together, these air units perty much nullify all other races spash attacks. Siege tanks physiclly destroy themselves to broodlords, colossus melt before curropters and templars can be snipped in 1-2 hits by broodlords before they can get into range to storm.

The whole point of the game is to make the other races feel different and that has been done very well. It is not like I am playing 3 clones with different names and art work, they worth completly differently.

What the zerg lack in late game area damage, they make up for in air power which can be countered by units like VR or vikings which melt before infestors and hydralisks which lose to.... You must not mass 1 huge army of the same unit, every race has some way to counter every unit so you need to vary what units you have to make the army difficult to counter.

Ofcourse, armies alone do not win the game. You need to use tactics. Dropping some units to kill the supply line of a zerg as terran can greatly weakon them. Like wise the zerg could herass your mineral line with mutalisks which could throw the game for you.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Z cries a lot but when you let them make expands for long, ther's no winning.. You need to kill something every several minutes or forget about winning as T.