• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Three Questions Imports/Graphics/LeftClick

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 22
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
3,091
1. Can I convert WC3 textures and models (mdx/blp) to SC2 formats? Or does SC2 already support the formats...?

2. SC2 is extremely choppy in rare situations, which is strange because friends play it on similar computer specs to mine with no problems... I have 1.86ghz CPU, with an integrated chipset with something like 256 mb of memory... 2 gbs of ram... And 32-bit Vista, any ideas on why it becomes choppy?

3. Can Galaxy code, (GUI or Custom Script) detect Left Clicks? Because WE can only detect Right Clicks... If so which Custom Script or GUI or both?

Thank you for any answers.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,201
1. Can I convert WC3 textures and models (mdx/blp) to SC2 formats? Or does SC2 already support the formats...?
Textures can be converted easilly to SC2.
1. Convert the .blp files to a standard file format like .jpeg (advisable if they were stored with .jpeg compression) or some bitmap format.
2. Use a tool like DirectX Texture Tool from the DirectX SDK to convert the image into a .dds format texture.
3. Import the texture into SC2 and use.

No idea about the model data though.

2. SC2 is extremely choppy in rare situations, which is strange because friends play it on similar computer specs to mine with no problems... I have 1.86ghz CPU, with an integrated chipset with something like 256 mb of memory... 2 gbs of ram... And 32-bit Vista, any ideas on why it becomes choppy?
No graphic card. Especially if you are previewing at rather high settings (which you should to make sure your map looks the best it can) it will easilly be overloaded. Complex maps with a lot of obects for the editor to render will perform very badly.

3. Can Galaxy code, (GUI or Custom Script) detect Left Clicks? Because WE can only detect Right Clicks... If so which Custom Script or GUI or both?
Both Script and GUI are about equal in capabilities next to some more obscure and ill advised practices.

Galaxy script can be made to detect both left and right mouse clicks as well as mouse position and almost every standard key on the keyboard. Obviously there is latency when registering such events (like the arrow keys in WC3).
 
Level 22
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
3,091
Textures can be converted easilly to SC2.
1. Convert the .blp files to a standard file format like .jpeg (advisable if they were stored with .jpeg compression) or some bitmap format.
2. Use a tool like DirectX Texture Tool from the DirectX SDK to convert the image into a .dds format texture.
3. Import the texture into SC2 and use.

No idea about the model data though.


No graphic card. Especially if you are previewing at rather high settings (which you should to make sure your map looks the best it can) it will easilly be overloaded. Complex maps with a lot of obects for the editor to render will perform very badly.


Both Script and GUI are about equal in capabilities next to some more obscure and ill advised practices.

Galaxy script can be made to detect both left and right mouse clicks as well as mouse position and almost every standard key on the keyboard. Obviously there is latency when registering such events (like the arrow keys in WC3).

I run SC2 on low, but like I said I have a friend running on the same chipset as me with no problems. I also run a couple of high requirement games that work relatively well... Based on SC2's requirements my video card qualifies, but my CPU is lacking...

Thank you for the answers.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,201
I run SC2 on low, but like I said I have a friend running on the same chipset as me with no problems. I also run a couple of high requirement games that work relatively well... Based on SC2's requirements my video card qualifies, but my CPU is lacking...
All I can tell is that some part of your system is bottleknecking the performance of the editor drastically. If you say that someone with the same hardware configuration as you has much better editor performance on the same map then that means that some other application must be running in parallel and consuming extra resources that are available for the editor on your friends system. It might even be some trivial hardware difference is enough to let it run smoothly. I do not know enough about the particual setup in question to tell you the exact cause.
 
Level 17
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
721
Which is more important to SC2 ? CPU or RAM ? Cause I have enough CPU but I'm low on RAM only 1 GB. and 512 NVIDIA Gforce 9500. I'm thinking of buying it but I don't know if it will run. Fuck those RAM

@xRiotZx: Check your computer for viruses or reinstall windows. Check in Task Manager to see if any unnecessary programs are running in the background and close them. Oh and SC2 requires CPU too, like a Dual Core or higher...
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,201
Depends on what is bottleknecking it. As long as the program has a working set that leaves you with free memory any extra memory is a waste. However, as soon as all available memory is used up page faults start to occur more readilly which are an extreemly bad bottlekneck for system performance.
 
Level 22
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
3,091
Which is more important to SC2 ? CPU or RAM ? Cause I have enough CPU but I'm low on RAM only 1 GB. and 512 NVIDIA Gforce 9500. I'm thinking of buying it but I don't know if it will run. Fuck those RAM

@xRiotZx: Check your computer for viruses or reinstall windows. Check in Task Manager to see if any unnecessary programs are running in the background and close them. Oh and SC2 requires CPU too, like a Dual Core or higher...

I'm on 2 gb of ram with a shitty video card so it should run. CPU and RAM are more important than GPU. I'd say RAM is more important than CPU because the CPU is what assigns and reassigns the RAM, so if you have a 2.60ghz processor, and 1 gb of ram, you're going to be a lot slower than you should be.

Also, I'm a computer expert, I have a never ending subscription to McAfee, and I know how to shut down operations in the Bios, which allows you to kill things that Task Manager won't. I'm also running a clean boot... So this is totally unrelated to my system processes. Most likely it's because I don't have a vertex shader.
 
Level 17
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
721
Well I have Dual Core at 2.4...Is there any way to make it run smoothly ? If I were to lower the graphics to medium. What options eat the most RAM ?

Oh yeah and I think you need Vertex Shader 4 or something...

Downloading the Starter Edition right now and see how it goes.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,201
I'm on 2 gb of ram with a shitty video card so it should run. CPU and RAM are more important than GPU. I'd say RAM is more important than CPU because the CPU is what assigns and reassigns the RAM, so if you have a 2.60ghz processor, and 1 gb of ram, you're going to be a lot slower than you should be.
This does not make much sense at all. The CPU allocating memory to a process has nothing to do with RAM anymore since the development of Virtual Memory. Virtual memory is allocated in pages to processes and kept track of by the operating system. For efficiency it usually does places these pages into memory when allocated but any free page of memory will suffice (the memory is only broken into pages of a standard size). When a process reads from an address in its virtual memory space, it resolves it into a page identifier and eventually into a physical location in memory. It is completly possible that page boundries which are treated by the code of a process as being next to each other are physically mapped to addresses separated by many pages of other processes inbetween them. It depends entirly on which pages are free at the time the page is resolved into memory. Less used pages can be offloaded from memory into backing storage such as a hard disk to free memory page space for new or more needed pages (page faults) from any process. The working set is the actual quantity of data a process has loaded into memory. Almost all applications have a much larger virtual memory size compared to their working set. It is easilly possible for a program that has a 2GB virtual memory size to run flawlessly on a system with only 1 GB of memory if the program only needs a 512MB working set to function efficiently. Performance problems occur only when all a system's memory has been filled with pages that are being used often resulting in a lot of page faults. A page fault is when pages belonging to a process's virtual memory have been offloaded to backing storage yet are suddenly required by a thread so need to be resolved back into memory. Page faults occur all the time even with insane quantities of memory but these are very minor and often within memory entirly. Once a system runs out of memory due to the quantity being used by process's as their working set then critical page faults occur which not only require the unloading of page to backing storage but also the recall of a page from backing storage. For exceeding the memory a little it can often be resolved by the OS automatically adjusting the working set of programs (if memory is readilly available pages that are virtually never used can remain in memory). If you overshoot your memory by a large margine then page thrashing will occur which will bottlekneck performance back to that of a system from the 1990s.

Increasing the quantity of memory will have no effect on performance unless you are fully utalizing all the memory you currently have. The exception is extra memory can improve opperating system performance by allowing more data to be cached but this should have no effect on process performance outside of initial startup and during file I/O. Increasing memory clock on the other hand can improve system performance as it reduces the clock cycle wastage of a processor in the case of an internal cache miss or fault but larger caches and better pipelining reduces the gain from this.

Most likely it's because I don't have a vertex shader.
You will need more than 1 in any case. Performance cards come with 100s of geometry shaders (capable of functioning as vertex shaders).

I advise trying to find the source of the bottlekneck since you seem so good with computers. In windows systems you can use the performance monitor tool to get various quantities and rates of internal opperations. Your graphic solutions provider should allow some way of diagnosing performance which should help identify bottleknecks. Remember that graphic drivers also allow you to set various render qualities which have an effect on performance (eg you should not be trying to use AA and AF on your system as both those are very demanding and configurable in most graphic drivers).

The type of performance problem can also help with a diagnosis. If it is stuttering from time to time (such as locking up for 5 seconds) and then performing fine it is likly I/O related such as for file I/O which can be the process loading a file or a page fault.
If it is continious persistant but poor performance (low frame rate) it is likly a bottlekneck in how computationally powerful the system is (like CPU is not working fast enough for the load or a bus has too much traffic running through it).

Do remember that antivirus programs do add overhead so it is possible that a system without an antivirus will run a game better than a system with one.
 
Level 22
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
3,091
This does not make much sense at all. The CPU allocating memory to a process has nothing to do with RAM anymore since the development of Virtual Memory. Virtual memory is allocated in pages to processes and kept track of by the operating system. For efficiency it usually does places these pages into memory when allocated but any free page of memory will suffice (the memory is only broken into pages of a standard size). When a process reads from an address in its virtual memory space, it resolves it into a page identifier and eventually into a physical location in memory. It is completly possible that page boundries which are treated by the code of a process as being next to each other are physically mapped to addresses separated by many pages of other processes inbetween them. It depends entirly on which pages are free at the time the page is resolved into memory. Less used pages can be offloaded from memory into backing storage such as a hard disk to free memory page space for new or more needed pages (page faults) from any process. The working set is the actual quantity of data a process has loaded into memory. Almost all applications have a much larger virtual memory size compared to their working set. It is easilly possible for a program that has a 2GB virtual memory size to run flawlessly on a system with only 1 GB of memory if the program only needs a 512MB working set to function efficiently. Performance problems occur only when all a system's memory has been filled with pages that are being used often resulting in a lot of page faults. A page fault is when pages belonging to a process's virtual memory have been offloaded to backing storage yet are suddenly required by a thread so need to be resolved back into memory. Page faults occur all the time even with insane quantities of memory but these are very minor and often within memory entirly. Once a system runs out of memory due to the quantity being used by process's as their working set then critical page faults occur which not only require the unloading of page to backing storage but also the recall of a page from backing storage. For exceeding the memory a little it can often be resolved by the OS automatically adjusting the working set of programs (if memory is readilly available pages that are virtually never used can remain in memory). If you overshoot your memory by a large margine then page thrashing will occur which will bottlekneck performance back to that of a system from the 1990s.

Increasing the quantity of memory will have no effect on performance unless you are fully utalizing all the memory you currently have. The exception is extra memory can improve opperating system performance by allowing more data to be cached but this should have no effect on process performance outside of initial startup and during file I/O. Increasing memory clock on the other hand can improve system performance as it reduces the clock cycle wastage of a processor in the case of an internal cache miss or fault but larger caches and better pipelining reduces the gain from this.


You will need more than 1 in any case. Performance cards come with 100s of geometry shaders (capable of functioning as vertex shaders).

I advise trying to find the source of the bottlekneck since you seem so good with computers. In windows systems you can use the performance monitor tool to get various quantities and rates of internal opperations. Your graphic solutions provider should allow some way of diagnosing performance which should help identify bottleknecks. Remember that graphic drivers also allow you to set various render qualities which have an effect on performance (eg you should not be trying to use AA and AF on your system as both those are very demanding and configurable in most graphic drivers).

The type of performance problem can also help with a diagnosis. If it is stuttering from time to time (such as locking up for 5 seconds) and then performing fine it is likly I/O related such as for file I/O which can be the process loading a file or a page fault.
If it is continious persistant but poor performance (low frame rate) it is likly a bottlekneck in how computationally powerful the system is (like CPU is not working fast enough for the load or a bus has too much traffic running through it).

Do remember that antivirus programs do add overhead so it is possible that a system without an antivirus will run a game better than a system with one.

For the first part, not everyone can be as smart as DSG. I'm not a computer aficionado but I know a bit, I was under the assumption RAM was allocated by the processor. I remember back when I ran out of RAM on my old laptop, I kept getting the blue screen during video gaming sessions and other basic shit lol. Is there anyway to clear up RAM?
DSG for president 2012.

Second part, yes, yes yes, I'm going to try all of that. And the next step is probably over clocking.

One other question about SC2, if I use keys such as K, R, I, for abilities such as crouch, prone, infrared, etc, and these aren't hotkeys, they are just functions that will run corresponding abilities. Will there be much of a delay if there are two players in the game doing this? Because in WC3 arrow key detection was terribly slow.
 
Last edited:

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,201
Is there anyway to clear up RAM?
In modern opperating systems this is not nescescary due to the mechanics of virtual memory. The opperating system will automatically free all pages allocated to a process that is terminated. The mapping process of virtual memory means that memory fragmentation is not a problem. Although opperating systems like W7 use up a lot of RAM (mine idles at over 1GB) they are willing to give up most of that memory to processes. Thus there is no need to clear up RAM as it is always in a readilly usable state if you still have some free.

The only exception is specalist opperations that still require continiously mapped memory to function (like the PS2 emulator PCSX2 once did) but those are virtually non-existant.
 
I run SC2 on low, but like I said I have a friend running on the same chipset as me with no problems. I also run a couple of high requirement games that work relatively well... Based on SC2's requirements my video card qualifies, but my CPU is lacking...

Thank you for the answers.

If your specs are the same as your friends, then it's most likely an over-heating issue.

Does it come and go periodically?

Your CPU will declock to attempt to cool down.

I got a fan and stuck it in behind my computer, and no longer have these issues.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top