Things that you are/aren't going to do with multiplayer map size extention

[Avahor]

As it was discussed on news refered to propagation risk of maps with useless content when size extention finally be real, we can share in this thread some ideas or tips about good additions those come for our projects and cannot be added due size restriction for multiplayer maps. In general terms we are well aware about high size models/sounds/images those don't justify their insertion. However I've read some posts and criticisms about what Blizzard will do and noone talk about what he as hiver will do.
Of course there's no reason to make a strict law about how to use map allowed space.
For example, I work on a rpg map and really the image size issue were a problem (I always chose to exclude custom loading screens) but I know that the next addition of my rpg will be an interactive world map interface where players can click for info and travel to some activated areas.
So, what things were you prevented for add on your actual project and you really want to include on next updates? what you would prevent to add into?.
I still prevent to add Wow rip models if map has nothing related to Wow.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I'd say loading screen, more icons and a custom UI are the first things on my list.

It's something I've always wanted, but could never justify to do because these things didn't add enough benefit to the game to justify the cost in file size.


Then, following at a larger distance I have higher resolution textures for doodads and environmental imports.
Many of the models I use currently have a ridicolous texture compression going on, resulting in blurry, blocky textures. These will be replaced to give the game sharper, crisper optics.


After that, there's not much I would really *need* to have. Maybe having some more custom models imported for creeps and NPCs? I could see that improve on immersion a bit, but it's nowhere near as important as the other things I mentioned above.

As far as custom music and custom voice acting goes, I kinda have that thing solved already by the distribution of my extension folder alongside the project. I don't think it would make much sense to pointlessly bloat the main map file with this folder integrated into the map directly.

After all, it takes people a while to download a 20 megabyte map. At least until we get Bnet 2.0 in WC3.

 

[Eagle XI]

Filesize limit shouldnt exist at all, the only thing it does is fragmenting the remaining playerbase as players have to be told the methods for it's removal actually exists and then how to use it.

Removing it would only help larger projects that just cant be squeezed below 8mb no matter what you do.
Most people wouldnt download an randomly stumbled upon map of immensely large filesize anyways, cause its already present and established how nice things can be accomplished despite the limit.

 

[Kaijyuu]

I would consider using more non-models. Textures seem to be the big space eaters.

Lots can be done with the base assets, so I've never been too concerned with filesize limits in the first place.

 

[DracoL1ch]

when somebody starts to restrict another ones in anything it's no longer free art

 

[Ardenian]

I am not going to spam my projects with HQ models and heavy file size stuff.
Big maps already take long to load and I don't want to imagine how long a 150MB one does.

 

[Avahor]

when somebody starts to restrict another ones in anything it's no longer free art

Some times there is a thin line between art and garbage, the fundament line. There's no restrictive intentions.

I am not going to spam my projects with HQ models and heavy file size stuff.
Big maps already take long to load and I don't want to imagine how long a 150MB one does.

Yeah, that's the point. Now, I'm dealing how to use talavaj's packs without guilty sense.

 

[Kaijyuu]

Some of the best art is borne out of limitations. See like, all classic video games; they're not good despite their limitations but often because of them.

Tangential point though since imports rarely make or break any wc3 map. You can do most anything you want to do with the base assets; it's just how pretty you want it to be.

 

[A]mun]

Some of the best art is borne out of limitations. See like, all classic video games; they're not good despite their limitations but often because of them.

Tangential point though since imports rarely make or break any wc3 map. You can do most anything you want to do with the base assets; it's just how pretty you want it to be.

I second this.

Objects that add to the basic underlying charme of the game would be appreciated of course. Like more custom sounds/music, which demand too much space with their .wav format currently.

Like, battle sounds for larger battles greatly add to the atmosphere.
As do different battle horns for their respective factions (Hello LOTR).

 

[Weigazod]

Since i only make altered melee map at this time. I can only comment some.

Thing i really don't want:

_ Having custom units just for the sake of having them is completely a waste of bytes. A units should only exist if it provides unique features / roles / strategies to the game play. If it doesn't, don't even think of making it in the first place. That is not mentioning human players don't do thing as you expect. I must say i truly admire dota 1. That map is the biggest and most successful example of great map don't come with many custom models and icons.

_ Custom Models / Icons / loading screen / racial interface should be used to provide better gaming's experience. If they only make it better in a small marginal, i really want to restrict the use of them in my map. I play an amount of map and sometimes the imported models/interfaces don't even make any differences. It costs so much bytes that over 80% of the map file size are made up of just custom models and icons. I say that unless the ingame resources can truly provide what you seek, should you use the import. Otherwise, don't put it in.

_ About sound and music, i really don't have much opinion. To be honest, we map maker may be coders, model makers, icon designers, some are even artists but how many of us are musicians the level of us being coders / designers? Not to mention there is quite a restraint in the sound editor, we can't even make our own voice-set. Most the time i play warcraft 3, i mute the sound and turn the music on the desktop. We hardly can make a soundtrack that actually make the mood better than turning on our own collection of songs which are stored in our hard drive.


We also need to consider a range of benefit with small size map.

_ The speed people download it on multiplayer
_ The speed at which it loads

Back to 10 years ago, these are problems. I used to play a 15 mb map and have to wait 5 minutes just to get into the game. Oh Mother of Whistler, why is it that we have to depend so much on graphic that don't really contribute much value to our game.

I must say a restriction on the map size is really necessary because the mapper will have to do whatever they can to muster their file size down to appropriate level. Tell me how many of you want to play a map that you must wait for 10 minutes to download and 5 more minutes just to load it? Even if it offer great gaming experience, personally i don't see it's really worth it.

And to answer the topic "Art should not be limited". Well i agree up to some points. However, let me tell you something like this. Many decades ago computers are as large as a room and are not as powerful as this day. They made them smaller and it becomes an evolution. Think about the map the same way as the computer.

Another story, a man use 200 gold to build a tool which fit all requirement and a man use 100 gold to make a tool fit 80% then build an addon for the tool to fit the rest 20%. Which man is smarter?

 

[DracoL1ch]

I must say a restriction on the map size is really necessary because the mapper will have to do whatever they can to muster their file size down to appropriate level. Tell me how many of you want to play a map that you must wait for 10 minutes to download and 5 more minutes just to load it? Even if it offer great gaming experience, personally i don't see it's really worth it.

what you see it doesn't matter. matters only what majority sees.

And to answer the topic "Art should not be limited". Well i agree up to some points. However, let me tell you something like this. Many decades ago computers are as large as a room and are not as powerful as this day. They made them smaller and it becomes an evolution. Think about the map the same way as the computer.

yeah, doom has been created that good just because limits, and the newest doom4 is suck dick just because they made it 50+gb game.

Another story, a man use 200 gold to build a tool which fit all requirement and a man use 100 gold to make a tool fit 80% then build an addon for the tool to fit the rest 20%. Which man is smarter?

1st one. his tool would be there for everyone since day 1. and 2nd one will lose his market. the only reason WC3 stayed so long is there were no competitors at all. And today there are.

 

[Weigazod]

what you see it doesn't matter. matters only what majority sees.


yeah, doom has been created that good just because limits, and the newest doom4 is suck dick just because they made it 50+gb game.

1st one. his tool would be there for everyone since day 1. and 2nd one will lose his market. the only reason WC3 stayed so long is there were no competitors at all. And today there are.

I won't argue. What some see as necessary may be obsolete to others. This pretty much depends on people viewpoint.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

The only reason WC3 stayed so long is there were no competitors at all. And today there are.

Slightly off-topic, but where are the competitors? Because I don't see them.
There is Starcraft II, which is great, but if you don't like Sci-Fi, it's hard to get into it.

Other than that ... where are all the fantasy RTS games? There are some great turn-based ones like HOMM; but that hardly compares to realtime strategy.


The point is: WC3, to this day, is still the first best option if you look for a fantasy RTS, as nobody makes RTS games anymore.

 

[DracoL1ch]

Slightly off-topic, but where are the competitors? Because I don't see them.
There is Starcraft II, which is great, but if you don't like Sci-Fi, it's hard to get into it.

Other than that ... where are all the fantasy RTS games? There are some great turn-based ones like HOMM; but that hardly compares to realtime strategy.


The point is: WC3, to this day, is still the first best option if you look for a fantasy RTS, as nobody makes RTS games anymore.

guess nobody can say that there was anything bigger than dota
now there's dota2 with it's custom games stuff
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Custom_Games

just look how many projects has been ported there from wc3. isnt' that a sign of competition?

and game itself doesnt matter. today barely anyone buy wc3 for RTS but for custom maps. my point was about customizing stuff, not about RTS competiting. RTS are dead genre at given time