There has GOT TO BE AN EASIER WAY! Can you find it?

[Hairybeavet]

ok so i am dealing with dialog box and buttons. if the first button is pressed then that player gets a unit. but there is no way to limit or figure out which player is pressing the button. i cant figure out how to limit the condition or anything


plz help

 

[Teh_Ephy]

>_> ur still on the remaking of Water War - Submerged eh?
personally i know nothing of dialogue boxes but i would love to know what you're planning to add to it

 

[Hairybeavet]

hahaha! i am sitll on for one reason only......
I am a waiter at a restaurant the works me 40++ hours a week and i have a beautiful girlfriend that i cant stop being around... but all that is left is the terrain and a few more spells and then off to testing and balancing... the deal with the dialog boxes is that i could make a 1000 variables for each player or if someone can tell me a variable to limit it so i would say 3 days work if max to be done

 

[Teh_Ephy]

NICE
lol well i don't know what variable limit is but 8000 (0r 10000 if u added xtra players) is definitely pushing it
that would be awesome tho i definitely want to be one of the testers!
oh and suggestions for balance issues
make the omega trident/armour harder to get on an exponential scale! i'd go off with my Üßë® set (melee strenght hero, abils: mur'gul swarm, vamp aura, rune aura, blue shield, hydran healing; not in that order) and get all 4 omega items in like first 15 minutes, not to mention pooling with buddies for upgrades (speed, attack 1st two to get)

 

[Dr Super Good]

Making a map with 1000s of variables is crazy.
Each variable storing data causes the trigger system to need more processing power to retrieve variables.
It gets to the stage that you have a map that people say is leaking and unplayable when its just data your storing.
When something leaks it creates variables without removing them thus if you create 1000s of variables yet none of them leak it will be the same as if 1000s of variables have leaked.

I would reccomend you rewrite your trigger systems to use a maximum of 150 handles and 1000 reals or integers (including arrays).

I think get triggering player returns the clicking player but if it does not you can simply detect it byx making a diolog for each player with buttons then removing them after each has clicked them.

 

[Hairybeavet]

lol i did try with the triggering player but i was being sarcastic with the 1000 variables... it should be up there in numbers but i should not exceed 1000. just feels that way when you sit there and make them. i also need help with making items if anyone can help. i know how to make the simple recipe system and i dont want it to extreme with items... if anyone is good at making items or terrian PM me... i will add your name in the credits if you wish... other then that thanks for the posts!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

well i'd like to say that i'm good with terraining but i'm not entirely sure i could reproduce what's done in Water War - Submerged on such a scale...

dunno about the recipe system but you could have an item combining system where you can combine two items that are similar enough (or maybe completely opposite) into one item with the same effects slightly toned down ,like combining two items that separately give str +10 and agi +10 into one item that gives str +8 and agi +8, or two items that separately give +10% movement and +5% attack (or whatever) give both boosts (since those are small) or 30%m 25%a give like 25-28%m 20-22%a
so have the items with pieces that are big and scary on their own give toned down boosts as one item or have big and scary price tags

the problem with the item combining in DotA is that you can combine items that give like +50% movement speed and +30% attack speed and end up with an item that gives like +60 to both >_> (yes i'm exaggerating, but i remember that all the combo items gave better boosts than the pieces for them , sometimes even other effects/boosts AND mashed it all into one slot) and it isn't too expensive

don't make the item recipe/combo thing overly complex or far from the main bases, do it so that without knowing the pieces for an item you could get them easily and get back to the combo place AND stick them together in under 30 seconds, unless it is one badass item.

if it helps i could make some items and/or item recipes in a separate map and send it to you =/
i don't know how i would make the triggers for the recipes, maybe rip some off of DotA and change the items around
joking aside though, it would be nice if someone else could do that for me because triggering requirse more thinking than i usually do when i'm just sitting around

 

[Hairybeavet]

sorry about the long reply but that would be awesome if you could send some items in a seperate map to me! personally i dont like losing stats when putting items together cause then soon you will just have 1 item with super low stats. =/ but i realy perfer the dota style and the orb effect idea is a cool thing also! thanks for the help!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

er the way i kind of have it in mind is the items either lose a little or cost a lot
i personally think that DotA's item combo system is just insane where you combine two good items to get an item with not only the combined effects but an added one that is really good as well.
so, i'll get working on those but if u want custom icons or something u'll have to do it urself... i generally only use things internal to warcraft (hidden included)

 

[Hairybeavet]

it is cool! i want them to pay to combine cause they get another bonus and an extra slot so really it should cost about the same to buy an extra item. but that would help alot! thanks for the help!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

i actually have an idea... have items that "imbue" weapons with bonuses; i.e: have a chill shard that does nothing on its own, but can give weapons frost attacks. it would be simple to do and a nice stepping stone towards actual item recipes until they're up

 

[Hairybeavet]

sweet! that would be a really cool idea! thanks for all the help!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

an explanation about what i have so far

current shard abilites (none of them add an air attack)
Blaze (Searing) - simple fire orb ability
Chill (Freezing) - simple frost orb ability
Havoc (Shearing) - corruption orb ability, +2 damage to weapon, lose armour bonus for weapon
Lethargy (Quiet) - slow ability, -1 damage to weapon, +2 armour to item
Pulse (Draining) - feedback, +75 mana
Toxic (Venomous) - simple venom orb ability
Volt (Jolting) - simple lightning orb ability
Wrath (Furious) - critical strike, +1 damage to weapon
the idea is that they randomly drop from the creeps on the map (that hopefully respawn) and if you get two you can pay to combine them into an orb. also, the imbued items costs as much as the item plus the shard, excluding the cost to imbue them. also for armour only the armoured cloak can be imbued, but stronger armours are available

i stopped there because i ran out of icons featuring round things, not to mention ideas (i used periapt of vitality for one of them).

items so far:

weapons/armours: 11
imbued weap/arm: 40
weapon types: battle claws (atk+6 def+2)[imbue 5], swords (atk+9)[imbue 8], axes (atk+12)[imbue 3], halberds (atk+15)[imbue 1], staves (int+9)[imbue 8], bracelets (agi+6, atk speed+10%)[imbue 6], gauntlets (str+6, hp+150 !total hp bonus is 300!)[imbue 5]
armour types: armoured cloak [imbue 4] (def+3), light armour (def+5), battle armour (def+7), silver armour (def+9)
Deeplord Artifacts: 8 [ Deeplord Ascender: Crown, large stat boost 10all, Blaze; Deeplord Bringer: Gem, summons units, Volt; Deeplord Conservator: Armour/shield, def boost 22, Chill; Deeplord Glancer: claws, atk boost 20 def boost 10, toxic; Deeplord Reducer: staff, int bonus 18 def boost 8, pulse; Deeplord Tarnisher: sword, atk boost 25 def boost 8, lethargy; Deeplord Wreaker: axe, atk boost 35 def boost 4, havoc; Deeplord Zealot: halberd, atk boost 45, wrath ]
shard/orb types: 8 [ see above: shard abilites ] !!possible extra shard: Deeplord Embracer - upgrade to deeplord artifact!!
spellbooks: 6 [ light-div shield, dark-devour magic, fire-flamestrike, water-crushing wave, wind-cyclone, earth-stomp ] (suggestions for others welcome)
artifacts: 1 [ celestial armour: def boost 10, hp regen up, mana regen up, will hopefully be a drop for a badass enemy ]
healing: 9 [ medicinal seaweed-500hp, 50 cooldown; medicinal seaweed bundle-750hp, 65 cooldown; mana fragment-300mp, 50 cooldown; large mana fragment-450mp, 65 cooldown; seaweed-500hp/30secs, 30 cooldown; seaweed bundle-750hp/45secs, 50 cooldown; mana sliver-300mp/30secs, 35 cooldown; large mana sliver-450hp/45secs, 50 cooldown; brightwater-500hp&300mana/30sec, 55 cooldown ]
other: [ breaker medallion - 40 sec spell shield ]
item recipes: Full Armour, a combination of Armoured Cloak and Light Armour, boosts armour by 5, has a chance to reduce damage dealt to 10; Razor Band, combo of Agility Bracelet and Battle Claws, boosts attack by 6, attack speed by 12%, armour by 2, and reflects melee attacks (30%).
planning to add: more item recipes

item format - Item name (item effects)[imbue 7]
means the item has those effects and can be imbued by 7 different shards



updated 18.8.2006 - 18th of August, 2006
~1:10 GMT
:mrgreen:
item suggestions appreciated

 

[Hairybeavet]

just an idea! would it not be better if the items dropped off the heros cause the ammount of units that spawn you would have 100's of those orbs laying around! and if it drops off of heros then it would be worth more!

down side! if you kill a hero with a dot! and he is behind a tower then the allies or that same hero can get that item! and then again you dont want items just floating around in the game nor do you want a hero with like 5k gold trying to kill people just to get one item! so not sure about drops! maybe we can ajust the stats and price and just leave it up to saving and farming to get the items they want! vs chance

 

[Teh_Ephy]

hmm maybe preplace a handful of them around the map as well as the occaisional drop? btw current item status is like 35 total excluding shards & orbs, and i'm still working on A) items that boost Int and B) Items that boost Agi
don't have any items that boost str yet but maybe i'll add some later. not planning on it tho since all the items that boost atk can be imbued (+6 [battle claws], +9 [swords], +12 [axes])

4 base weapons, 3 base armours, 16 imbued weapons, 4 imbued armours, 8 shards, 8 orbs, 6 Deeplord Artifacts

this is before working on the rest of the staves (int items) and before working on any agi items. there will probably be 9 of both, since i'm planning on having the agi items being rings (bracers, whatever) but i already have the base staff (which is included as a base weapon, as will the bracer/ring agi items.

one more thing, the shards cost 250 so we could have them at a shop. i'll set up their button positions so that it would be possible

edit: i didn't want to waste the post, but i almost forgot the spellbooks! haha... anyways the weird old spellbooks will be in also, will have the same abils, and there might be more than the old ones!

 

[Hairybeavet]

wait are you really going to put the spell books from water wars in there? i nvr really could use them cause they just would suck so much

 

[Teh_Ephy]

lol yeah... i boosted the area for crushing wave/flamestrike and duration for cyclone. damage for stomp has been boosted too. they're more kind of extras to make the map prettier tho =Þ, but they cost stuff so if u randomly find one u can sell it for money. i expect that the only one that will see use is light, maybe dark sometimes.

note: item list on 1st page has been updated. what do you think?

 

[Hairybeavet]

wow that is awesome! some of the items might need the def toned down! but i like the consept! um so how are you on making terrian? cause i am not that good! when ever you get done with the items! pm me with an email and i will send you a my map! got a few things to fix but for the most part it is getting there!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

if ur talking about having the deeplord artifacts losing their def & stuff, well do you remember the omega tridents? yeah ur expected to go thru something like that to get them. either that or they're going to be way out of the way to get. so they're not intended to be bought or sold. i actually doubt that some of them all of them will see frequent use since i intend for them to be so out of the way it's mind blowing.

anyways if you don't need agi items for it i'm already done
but that would be unfair to agi heroes
hmm actually the ony weapons are either attack boosting or int boosting so maybe it's biased a little more towards int heroes :?
anyways if this is fine let me know. :mrgreen:

edit: actually i had really good ideas for the agi bracelets, but it will be done by the end of today. er, should be.

 

[Hairybeavet]

lol so you really dont have any items for str,agi,int? i cant really make a terrain that looks good so do you want to give it a try? i am still trying to work out bugs with the variables and make sure the right ones go in the right place! but i could send you the map when i get the cinks worked out! um other then that and the dive and surface crap that is making me mad. only thing left to do is to make all the abilities and make the dialog function for the abilities... other then that i should be done and then i got a great idea for a new map! unlike any other map!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

unlike any map before except for the one it's based off of! :mrgreen:
lol actually i'm in the middle of adding agi items, have had int items for a while, and have no intention of adding str items. i'm going to update the items list on the 1st page once i'm done with the agi items. and i'll make the halberd purchasable. oh btw there's a delay for the purchasability of higher teirs of stronger items; 5 for 2nd teir, 10 for 3rd, 15 for 4rth (lol 4th teir only has halberd). yeah i know it's not that much of a wait time but there isn't a MAJOR strength difference between the teirs (3 bonus for weapons, 2 bonus for armour). and since u lose the money for imbuing items then it kinda makes you think about what you want to spend ur shards on, doesn't it? actually Water War - Submerged was, in all honesty, a rather short AoS game, so 5 minute teirs shouldn't be too short. if they are we'll find that out during beta testing :mrgreen:

 

[Hairybeavet]

ok if you have no strengh items then everyone would not want to be a stregth based hero cause they cant purchase strengh items... and for all the int and agil people will have no way to increase there life! ult you can just make agil and int stats and leave strengh out.. and my other map that i am think off is really unlike most maps... i got the idea from my bathroom where spiders and bug sneak in!(live in the marshes!) =P

 

[Teh_Ephy]

lol i'm all out of icons for str items
actually i could maybe use gloves.
actually though, the original Water Wars - Submerged was far more rewarding to strength heroes than any other heroes; the omega tridents boosted attack by 20 as well as boosting str by 6. pretty much no way around it since most melee str heroes that knew about the omega tridents had the sense to get vamp aura. when attacking with full vamp aura into a unit with full rune (thorn) aura the two negated each other's effects because they were such perfect opposites (40% life steal for vamp, 40% return for rune)
it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to add str items. but you're kind of right about that bieng unfair to str heroes now. :?
guess i should get to work on those gloves shouldn't i

 

[Hairybeavet]

ok here is an idea! if you make the items then i could always mix and match the icons or import icons into the game... anything is possible. i have not been home in 3 days but PM cause i suck at terrian. i got the dialogs coming along nicely and i have an idea for my abilities...

unit-add chain lightning to random units for (player1)
****if he only has 1 unit then it is not realy random =)****
but i am not sure if it goes to lvl 1 with the ability or does it just add it into the heroabilitybutton...
and if it adds it lvl one then i can just decrease the lvl sing a trigger to lvl 0 and then he would have all his buttons and just do nothin!

and do you want to do my terian or give it a shot????

 

[Teh_Ephy]

well i've already got a nicely sized archive of items/imbued items just for our neo Water War - Submerged. there's actually a nice amount of glove icons in WC3.
also that would make it easier on the ppl for choosing what abils to level
about the Deeplord Artifacts, i have found base weapons for all of them, all of the base weapons are imbued.
the base artifacts have the same colour extended tooltip as the name of the deeplord artifacts. or they could just be item drops. so currently the base items are
Deeplord Ascender - Searing Cloak
Deeplord Bringer - Orb of Volt
Deeplord Conservator -Freezing Cloak
Deeplord Glancer - Venomous Claws
Deeplord Reducer - Draining Staff
Deeplord Tarnisher - Quiet Sword
Deeplord Wreaker - Shearing Axe
Deeplord Zealot - Furious Halberd

if these don't work they can go back to being drops. no problem since the only thing indicating that an item can be upgraded to a Deeplord Artifact is the text and that's an easy fix.
oh the item list will be updated by the time you're done reading this =)

 

[Hairybeavet]

ok just one thing differant i am going to make on the game... i am not going to have instant healing pots like the seaweed. going to make it more like the dota with just reg over time! other then that thanks so much! the items are going out so nice! but yet you have yet to answer me on if you want to do my terrian! i really really not that good at terrain! do you want to do that? and tomorrow i will work on the rest of my codes and variables! lots of fun there! =P but it is fun righting it! =P

 

[Teh_Ephy]

k. the regen part is understandable, i can change it so they regen that much over 30/45 secs instead of just regain that much instantly for hp. do u want the same for mana tho, or just instant regain?
well it doesn't matter since i have both in each flavour.
(Large) Energy Fragment - 300(450) mana instantly
Medicinal Seaweed (Bundle) - 500(750) hp instantly
(large) Energy Sliver - 300(450) mana over 30(45) seconds
Seaweed (Bundle) - 500(750) hp over 30(45) seconds

we can have either

 

[Hairybeavet]

yea cause people could go nuke nuke nuke ult then pot (instant mana) nuke nuke nuke and then that person would have to be dead! so the regen over time helps to control that problem!

and last time for asking cause you nvr answer my question........
do you want to do the terrian on my map?

 

[Teh_Ephy]

hmm i see your point. are those good durations for the health/mana regeneration on the items? also, u like the brightwater (see item list post)?

about the terraining question i could try or we could pm somebody that did nicely in the terrain showcasing thread http://www.wc3sear.ch/viewtopic.php?t=16561&sid=78bb22c04337eb2b6cfd1b005af8d680, or maybe create a new thread asking for someone that can terrain nicely from scratch
lol about not answering, to find out what goes on in my head try staring at an empty wall (preferably solid white), an ant hill, an empty wall again, watch a few hours of any anime show you can think of (other than pokemon, dragon ball z, yu-gi-oh!) then finish by staring at something full of sugar.
yeah by the time you're done with that of course you've forgotten to do something along the way :?

 

[Hairybeavet]

sure what ever works! um really for any map! i need a my terrian to be up partly! if you want to try to find someone then that would be great! yep that would be nice! they would cost more but then again it would save room in inventory but i think this project is coming to a close soon! this fri i have off so i can sit down and write the rest of the codes and make all my spells!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

hmm so sending you those items would be a smart thing to do right about now. well since i haven't had any ground breaking ideas, that will be fine. try importing them before you make the spells/units and stuff so that you don't have to redo anything (or too much =/). some of those would just be painful to copy/paste.

 

[Hairybeavet]

sure but try to stick with an island theme! i have made 4 classes of spell types.. lightning water frost and voodoo... and yea some of the spell books might be edited but then again i am still debating to put them in the game... but time to hit the beach! i will work on my map alittle later!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

haha voodoo.
about the lightning, u can't use it underwater, can u? cause it would be rather... odd, being able to call lightning to the depths of the oceans.

 

[Hairybeavet]

hey 50/50 i am still debating on what spells you can andcant use under water! but i am still trying to fit more spells into the game cause i want custom spells for every class so that there is very few lap overs! other then that i just got to come up with about 20 more spells to make the game how i want it!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

oh so it's not a mix of AoS and Hero Builder any more. =/ that was sooo cool in the original. or are there going to be more options for spells with the base hero having its own abil? b/c i really liked being able to put together a hero designed for powering thru places, or hero killer heroes.

 

[Hairybeavet]

this is the idea! 15 base abilities for each hero class and 5 ults for each one... except for some base abilities like Intel melee and Intel range... they might have a few of the same spells but i want to try to get a good mix between each class of str,agi,int and the fact that they are either range or melee. i try to either make spells for nukers or spells that motify the attack or def... or become a stunner. but unlike hero builder you can't have straight nukes. you get a dialog box with 5 (or more later on!) spells to pick from and then when you pick one spell then the next box comes up and then the next box and then the ult! so that i can balance it alittle easier! and i want to get the code to change the size and color of the hero! that would be just for fun!

i just need some one to make a killer terrian for me! any takers?

 

[Teh_Ephy]

like original Water War - Submerged!
that's awesome! is it melee int v range int have diff spells or just int heroes get same spell options as other int heroes? 1st option would add so much depth to it but take soo much longer :? .
if the 1st one range spellcasters should get the more powerful spells.

 

[Hairybeavet]

well when i make the game they can still see my abilities but range already has an advantage to melee! so with melee (for all classes) they get .5 more in the stat that there class is... not to much differance but it is still there! and yes melee and range get seperate abilities. here is one idea for Intel Melee: a passive ability that for every 1 dam they get .15 mana per lvl. so if the hero takes dam then he get mana for casting! like differant things for each one!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

a nice ability for ranged spellcasters would be the same heal that moon wells have. yeah it's instant, but so is the crazy mana loss.

 

[Hairybeavet]

yea that is to much. manashield would work so much better if i had it one to one and there would be no way to increase the lvl or anything. not to be mean

 

[Teh_Ephy]

you can actually modify that so it takes like 4 points of mana to heal 1 point of hp or 2 mana points for 1 point of mana or w/e =D
would kind of bite figuring out how to choose between mana & hp because i think it prioritizes hp before mana. maybe make it so it's an instant mana transfer? haha would be funny tho cause u can't control how much mana u use. transfer a little bit of mana and poof ur at 0 and ur buddy still isn't full XD
it's actually full of weaknesses but the instant part would be at the very least slightly overpowered if everything else that involved healing/mana regain was gradual.

 

[Hairybeavet]

oh well still trying to work stuff out

 

[Hairybeavet]

hey so not to bug you but how are you doin on those items? and tell me what items go with what for the recipes!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

oh haha so far i don't have any item recipes... unless u count the imbue things >_>

 

[Hairybeavet]

hey i have been PM people to help make a terrain and i am having no luck! if you got any body you know then ask or if anyone wants too that read these post then just ask.... or leave a post! other then that guys! got any ideas or any improvements to water wars this is an open forum for anyone! not just Teh and Me! more heads more ideas! better stuff!

 

[Hairybeavet]

so how are those items coming along?!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

is it okay if we don't have item recipes? i personally think that the items i have so far (listed on the 1st page of this thread, and at the top of the link in my sig) are sufficient, and there aren't enough base items for any actual coherent item recipe system. by base items, i mean items that aren't imbued, because combining two imbued items would cost you the price of the shard and one of the imbued effects, because orb effects don't stack.

our new Water Wars should be based around customization more than items. plus i've got 93 total item count >_>, 89 if you don't count the insta-healing items. that's a lot, and i don't really have any ideas for item recipes. oh btw i could set it up so that the armour/attack bonuses won't stack, or only stack when it's listed as stackable. that would add even more depth to our game.

 

[Hairybeavet]

hmm depends! cause for some heros! you would want attack speed and damage! over armor! and some units would want armor and damage over attack speed! or what ever! everything is dependant! but sure! if you think it would be able to work out! then lets do it!


BTW i need a terrianer! BADLY!

the abilities are coming along and if you got any ideas then let me know! i got under a 100 but 6 differant classes and 15 base and 5 ults! that is alot of abilities 120 differant ones! and my ideas are slowing down! but if you got any ideas! then tell me!

 

[Teh_Ephy]

it could be set up so that there are stackable and non-stackable attack, attack speed, move speed, armour, hp regen, mana regen, etc.

also when you're absolutely out of ideas for spells, you could make some normal spells that are weak versions of ults and then make ults that are strong versions of some normal spells. will help you hit 120. or you could repeat some spells across some classes, maybe change them just a little bit so different classes may have an advantage over the same spell as another class (ie: lower mana cost but raise cooldown)

 

[Hairybeavet]

well then i got a guy making the terrian for me so between him and me making the rest of the abilities we will have a map!

so also another thing with recipes you have the ability to buy small things that will be good at the start and then you can upgrade them into one thing that helps you out as you go on later in the game! that is why recipes are good!