TC#15 Chen Stormstout (Pandaren Race)

[Wazzz]

Looking forward to seeing how this develops for the rest of the contest, following for now

 

[stein123]

Lovely!

 

[Shar Dundred]

Added "Contest Entries" tag.

 

[lichao001486]

Very good race map. Your every race map is very good and creative.Do you plan to upload your all other race map
(Liazdman,Well,Cthulhu,Dwarf) to Maps section? Because more people can see and enjoy them.

 

[Yours Truly]

Looking forward to seeing how this develops for the rest of the contest, following for now

Lovely!

Thanks for the positive comments

Very good race map. Your every race map is very good and creative.Do you plan to upload your all other race map
(Liazdman,Well,Cthulhu,Dwarf) to Maps section? Because more people can see and enjoy them.

I wasn't planning to. Maybe I will, eventually.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Even if not the Maps section, you should definitely consider uploading to the Advanced Techtree section. : )

 

[Cherrymage]

Very interesting race! One thing though, the carts completely ignore trees from Overgrowth.

It's fun to play with. A great sight to behold, too. I especially like the bamboos (although I have to manually click "A" to tell the Tillers to harvest instead of eating them), the Overgrowth, the Elemental Aura spell and the Exotic Ingredients. Great job on this one!

 

[Yours Truly]

Map Updated!

Version 1.1:

Hidden

Now has a new UI for the race.

Bugfixes:
- Fixed a bug where Lumber Carts will ignore trees revived from Overgrowth. (thx @Directive255 )
- Fixed a bug where Chen looses stats gained from Exotic Ingredients upon changing to Earth elemental.
- Fixed a bug where Happy Hour refresh buff is applied to the nearest allied unit instead of Chen himself.
- Fixed a bug where Elemental Geomancy will not do any damage to peasant units that are repairing.
- Fixed a bug where Drunkard's Resolve upgrade actually increases damage from far enemies (it was intended to do the opposite).

Optimizations:
- Eating bamboo will now use only one dummy caster.

Balance Changes:
- Brawlers' gold cost reduced to 180 from 200.
- Wild Dogs' movement speed increased to 350 from 310.
- Pathfinders' attack speed increased to 0.80 from 1.00.
- Kegbearers' damage dice reduced to 10 from 15.

 

[Footman16]

An interesting entry but I noticed a couple of things that need fixing.

The rate of lumber gathering seems quite low from the Logging Stations, maybe +4 would be better.

Enemies seemed to drop ingredients without getting Chen's ability. Also some sleeping creeps would randomly wake up when approached.

Some icons seem in the wrong place particularly in the shop and Chen's. The Breath of Fire item seems a little meh tbh but that's just my opinion and wouldn't affect any judgements.

The Fire Magi and Tapper seem quite strong together but I'm not sure about their overall balance maybe I just got lucky.

Overall though a very strong entry with a cohesive theme and innovative abilities and designs, excited to see how things go

 

[Yours Truly]

An interesting entry but I noticed a couple of things that need fixing.

The rate of lumber gathering seems quite low from the Logging Stations, maybe +4 would be better.

Enemies seemed to drop ingredients without getting Chen's ability. Also some sleeping creeps would randomly wake up when approached.

Some icons seem in the wrong place particularly in the shop and Chen's. The Breath of Fire item seems a little meh tbh but that's just my opinion and wouldn't affect any judgements.

The Fire Magi and Tapper seem quite strong together but I'm not sure about their overall balance maybe I just got lucky.

Overall though a very strong entry with a cohesive theme and innovative abilities and designs, excited to see how things go

Thanks for playing the entry

I made some comparations of lumber harvesting rates between all the races. Frankly, I don't think it's that slow (maybe it's because I built 4 of them per game). I'm not sure what kind of approach I should make for the +4 lumber idea. Add in another cargo hold spot?
I think I'll just reduce the harvesting interval from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. Will run some tests to prevent unbalanced harvesting speed.

Only Neutral Hostile enemies will drop ingredients without Chen learning Exotic Ingredient. They are tagged with the "Random Drop". Should I remove this one?

Yeah, I noticed the creeps waking up. It's not random, however. They'll wake up if Chen is in Earth element and walk near them, applying a slow debuff on them and thus waking them up.

Really? I don't see how those units can synergize with each other.

 

[Footman16]

Thanks for playing the entry

I made some comparations of lumber harvesting rates between all the races. Frankly, I don't think it's that slow (maybe it's because I built 4 of them per game). I'm not sure what kind of approach I should make for the +4 lumber idea. Add in another cargo hold spot?
I think I'll just reduce the harvesting interval from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. Will run some tests to prevent unbalanced harvesting speed.

I mean in terms of food use per lumber rate, 3 logging stations are 9 Tillers for +9 lumber every 3 seconds, early game you usually have around 6-8 workers on lumber which is obviously 6-8 food, you can have more but 6-8 generally allows a consistent lumber rate. Especially compounded by the expensive bamboo huts only giving 8 food.

Only Neutral Hostile enemies will drop ingredients without Chen learning Exotic Ingredient. They are tagged with the "Random Drop". Should I remove this one?

Ah, I didn't know that, I'm not sure then it confused me when I saw it but its up to you, made me think it was bugged and I wouldn't need to learn Exotic ingredient.

Yeah, I noticed the creeps waking up. It's not random, however. They'll wake up if Chen is in Earth element and walk near them, applying a slow debuff on them and thus waking them up.

I see, don't know if there's any solution? Waking creeps up without choice is a detriment in multiplayer generally.

Really? I don't see how those units can synergize with each other.

Tappers have good DPS which with the damage per second and extra damage taken by units hit with the Fire Magi's W spell they go down pretty quick. Your own army lasts quite long with Chen tanking and the Tappers 100% miss chance ability effectively eliminating the enemies damage.

 

[Yours Truly]

I mean in terms of food use per lumber rate, 3 logging stations are 9 Tillers for +9 lumber every 3 seconds, early game you usually have around 6-8 workers on lumber which is obviously 6-8 food, you can have more but 6-8 generally allows a consistent lumber rate. Especially compounded by the expensive bamboo huts only giving 8 food.

Makes sense. I will up the harvest interval on the next patch.
Bamboo Huts are expensive because of the health recovery it provides. Once your army retreats, you'll have them at full health quite fast just by eating the bamboo stalks they spawn.

I see, don't know if there's any solution? Waking creeps up without choice is a detriment in multiplayer generally.

It's just the vanilla Tornado Slow aura ability. I can't fix hard-coded bugs.

Tappers have good DPS which with the damage per second and extra damage taken by units hit with the Fire Magi's W spell they go down pretty quick. Your own army lasts quite long with Chen tanking and the Tappers 100% miss chance ability effectively eliminating the enemies damage.

Seems like a good combo. I myself uses a more beefier army by getting Earth Druids for that 20% Physical damage reduction buff and spamming Brawlers every time I have excess gold.

Anyways, what's your opinion on Chen himself? I think he maybe too strong but I can't know for sure without getting more feedback.

 

[Footman16]

Makes sense. I will up the harvest interval on the next patch.
Bamboo Huts are expensive because of the health recovery it provides. Once your army retreats, you'll have them at full health quite fast just by eating the bamboo stalks they spawn.

I rarely used the healing due to spending most of my time away from my base, but I think that's due to the layout of the map more than anything, Duststorm is a horrible map. They should've chosen a better one for this contest imo but that's neither here nor there. I used most of the bamboo stalks for lumber, due to the shortage from the logging stations. Some of the placement of the bamboo stalks could be hard to select if you wall your base.

It's just the vanilla Tornado Slow aura ability. I can't fix hard-coded bugs.

Hmmm, fair enough. I think if you used a negative value endurance aura that might solve it? But I'm not sure.

Seems like a good combo. I myself uses a more beefier army by getting Earth Druids for that 20% Physical damage reduction buff and spamming Brawlers every time I have excess gold.

Tbf this was just a preliminary playthrough so maybe other strats are more viable

Anyways, what's your opinion on Chen himself? I think he maybe too strong but I can't know for sure without getting more feedback.

He is strong but he is also a solo hero so I think that makes him more balanced. I feel like his Q radius could be buffed a little, it felt too short a range. His evasion at level 3 seems strong but I'm not sure, he didn't seem too OP in my playthroughs but maybe that's just me.

 

[Yours Truly]

Map Updated!

Version 1.2:

Hidden

Bugfixes:
- Fixed a bug where Chen would continually damage himself after casting Elemental Geomancy.
- Fixed a bug where Chen would not gain any stats after picking up an Exotic Ingredient.
- Fixed a bug where Ingredients Sphere would ping the same item more than once.
- Fixed a bug where Lumber Carts would move to the middle of the map.
- Fixed a bug where Drunken Monks would not activate Wine Gourd while idling on Blighted ground.
- Fixed a game-breaking bug where casting Elemental Geomancy would bug out, causing another nearby allied unit to gain Chen's total HP,MP and AtkDmg, making it super OP.

Quality of Life Changes:
- Selecting Logging Stations will now spawn an indicator above their respective Lumber Carts.
- Added "Locate Lumber Cart" ability to pan the camera to the Logging Station's Lumber Cart.
- Tillers will instead harvest bamboo instead of eating them if ordered to right click them.

Balance Changes:
- Chen's Elemental Geomancy damage radius increased to 275 from 225.
- Chen's Exotic Ingredient drop radius increased to 1200 from 800.
- Lumber harvesting from Logging Stations intervals buffed to +1 Lumber per 2 seconds from +1 Lumber per 3 seconds.
- Tapper's Foaming Flask chance reduced to 35% from 40%.
- Fiery Belly Ale damage increased to 120 from 90.

 

[Yours Truly]

Map Updated!

Version 1.3:

Hidden

General Fixes:
The AI's Heroes will now properly learn and use their abilities.

Bugfixes:
- Wild Dogs' Blade Flurry ability now correctly does Magic damage instead of Normal damage.
- Drunken Monks will no longer activate Wine Gourd even while in combat.
- Tappers will no longer sometimes apply Foaming Flask on themselves.
- Exotic Ingredients drop chances were incorrect. Drop chances are now calculated correctly.

Balance Changes:
- Chen's Exotic Ingredient drop radius increased to 1300 from 1200.
- Exotic Ingredients will no longer drop from Neutral Hostile enemies, and as such the tooltip has been updated from:
"Enemies will sometimes drop rare ingredients that only Chen can pick up, permanently increasing his stats. This chance is higher if they die near Chen, and will always drop if that enemy is a Hero or an enemy above level 4."
to:
"Enemies that die near Chen has a chance to drop an Exotic Ingredient that only Chen can pick up to permanently increase his stats. Heroes or enemies above level 4 will always drop an Exotic Ingredient."

- Exotic Ingredients' strengths now lies more on the ingredients than the evasion.
Evasion chance reduced to 15 / 20 / 25% from 10 / 25 / 40%.
HP and MP ingredients are buffed up.

 

[Yours Truly]

Map Updated!

Version 1.4:

Hidden

The race now has AI that is able to play as Chen Stormstout.
Added gameplay screenshots.

Bugfixes:
- Fixed a bug where Chen would not get Happy Hour buff re-applied after casting Elemental Geomancy.
- Fixed a bug where Logging Stations would give a whole 75 lumber if its mana is lower than the amount of Tiller it has.
- Fixed a bug where Body Slam would be applied to nearby enemies.
- Fixed a bug where Storm Casks would not kill trees on impact.
- Fixed a bug where Venerable Vintage would not be applied if Brawler is affected with Stone Carapace.
- Chen now actually costs 5 food instead of no food.

Optimizations:
- Removed an unused Knockup system.
- Removed unused group variables.
- Music now plays randomly and without the use of Waits.
- Overall better coding efficiency with good usage of dummy casters.

Balance Changes:
- Floating Casks, Earth Casks and Fire Casks damage increased to 250 from 200, and Storm Cask to 150 from 100.
- Floating Casks lumber cost increased to 100 from 75, and gold cost reduced to 160 from 180.
- All Casks' damage radius are slightly increased to match their AoE hitbox.
- Earth Cask armor increased to 2 from 1.
- Chen's Exotic Ingredient can now be picked up by Enemy Heroes, but they will not gain any stats from it and will be dealt 10% max health damage.
- Logging Station health reduced to 600 from 1000. Testers was making use of Logging Stations as good, tanky, and especially cheap walls (minus the obnoxious red text every 2 seconds)
- Chen's Elemental Geomancy now resets back to No Element upon dying.
- Bamboo Hut build time reduced to 40 seconds from 50 seconds.

 

[Yours Truly]

Map updated, not that anyone cares

Version 1.5:

Hidden

AI Improvements:
- Will no longer prioritize building Brawlers over Drunken Monks if Blossoming Palace is built. Easy AI will still use Brawlers.
- Will build more Mages in place of Tappers in late game.
- Fixed a bug where the AI will build another Wandering Temple in their main base.
- AI will build more Fire Spires in their main base at Tier 3.
- AI will produce more Tillers for Logging Stations.
- AI-controlled Tillers will now harvest Bamboo immediately when one spawns, and an additional Tiller will be trained for this exact job.
- Hard AI will prioritize building Wild Dogs over Floating Casks.

Bugfixes:
- Happy Hour's Inebriated debuff's tooltip updated. It used to say that Elemental Geomancy would stun enemies affected with Inebriation.
- Ingredients Sphere now working properly again.
- Overgrowth Dummy Unit will no longer magically move away from it's spawn point.
- Now shows the Pandaren UI on the Esc Menu.

General Changes:
- Alcoholic's Market renamed to Rum Market.

 

[Kyrbi0]

...not that anyone cares

Dude. Do you expect a comment after every post/update?

We like it, and I'm personally glad to see a Contestant testing & updating their entry.

Not sure what else there is to say. :<

 

[Yours Truly]

Dude. Do you expect a comment after every post/update?

We like it, and I'm personally glad to see a Contestant testing & updating their entry.

Not sure what else there is to say. :<

Oh no, I'm not attacked. It's just a little joke I made because of my quadraposting spree here

 

[tyya]

funny and Amazing! i love it！

 

[Daffa]

So, we have Chen today.

I find this race mechanics interesting, and even discussed a bit about the mechanic with @LegendzKing. Arguably a great map this one is. Some issues to chalk out though.

1. The way the Spire created by having the upper part descends from the skies felt weird. It kinda looks unrealistic.
2. Healing felt pretty hard to get. I mean, the only decent healing option is Alemental but that even costs their health. Bamboo healing needs a harsh amount of micromanagement to be impressively useful at all. If only at least the Bamboo is closer to instant heal.
3. I find the Kegshooter buff pretty weird. I mean, 100 additional damage sure, at speed expense? I am not sure whether I should keep it always on or just skip it (and decides the first here, since the damage buff gives me a reassurance during sieges). A deterministic permanent bonus would be an alternative here. It is an interesting mechanic though.
4. Why the earth elemental spellcaster final ability is a morph to a static unit with no movement? I felt it makes the unit underwhelming unless there's a purpose I have not caught on yet.
5. Speaking of Bamboo, why is the ability to use them as healing invisible except for the worker? Had I not been trying myself, I would have thought the description for Bamboo gone wrong.
6. Overall lumber cost felt heavy for the faction, especially early on. Tiller felt slower when compared to common harvesting, but I assume that would be me (Tiller gives like 3 in a gather at max, unlike the usual 10 per gather). Psychologically, it gives a more steady income, but it makes lumber felt SO FREAKING SLOW.

This is using the 1.4 copy. I have this planned for like almost two weeks ago but reality just loves to shove me the fact thesis defense is in order at the time.

The video should be up by 15:00 GMT+8. Uploading is a pickle.

EDIT:

A goddamn pickle. Not even finished till another hour or so, I'd say 23:00 GMT+8 should have it fully ready. I really need to check future videos to avoid incidents this video file gets larger than I thought it would be.

 

[Yours Truly]

Ah, finally. Constructive criticism! The video made was also greatly appreciated, as I can see what other people's strats are with the faction (even if it had some delay because of that uploading issue).

1. The animations were from the base model, which isn't my work. It doesn't look bad to me, frankly.

2. What? I've playtested the race more than enough to know that the they have access to good healing.
Take a look at this screenshot:

Hidden

What I always do is make a Bamboo Forest in the path between the Main base and the Expansion base. Retreated units can always heal up back to full health if you know how to utilize the healing Bamboo Huts provide.

3. It was intended as a harass tool for hit-and-run siege tactics, as Fermented Kegs does not reduce your movement speed.

4. Granite Embodiment is more of a utility spell, where if your Earth Druids runs out of mana to be useful or is near death, you can use Granite Embodiment to stay in the fight, if you manage to place it that is.
(It's also a reference to the fact that Geomancers can literally transform into stone).

5. It was hidden so that it won't fill up units' ability slots, until actually put into use. An exception is made for Tillers because their right click is Attack instead of Eat.

6. Intended weakness. Solution: mo' logging stations early.

 

[Footman16]

Ah, finally. Constructive criticism!

Me upon reading this:

 

[Wazzz]

Me upon reading this:

Me upon reading this:

 

[Yours Truly]

Me upon reading this:

Me upon reading this:

View attachment 359335

Thank you for the constructive criticism, have a nice day.

 

[Daffa]

Ah, finally. Constructive criticism! The video made was also greatly appreciated, as I can see what other people's strats are with the faction (even if it had some delay because of that uploading issue).

1. The animations were from the base model, which isn't my work. It doesn't look bad to me, frankly.

2. What? I've playtested the race more than enough to know that the they have access to good healing.
Take a look at this screenshot:

Hidden

What I always do is make a Bamboo Forest in the path between the Main base and the Expansion base. Retreated units can always heal up back to full health if you know how to utilize the healing Bamboo Huts provide.

3. It was intended as a harass tool for hit-and-run siege tactics, as Fermented Kegs does not reduce your movement speed.

4. Granite Embodiment is more of a utility spell, where if your Earth Druids runs out of mana to be useful or is near death, you can use Granite Embodiment to stay in the fight, if you manage to place it that is.
(It's also a reference to the fact that Geomancers can literally transform into stone).

5. It was hidden so that it won't fill up units' ability slots, until actually put into use. An exception is made for Tillers because their right click is Attack instead of Eat.

6. Intended weakness. Solution: mo' logging stations early.

1. Yeah, I suppose that's personally my taste seeing it being freaking weird for it to "descend from the sky".

2. True it is quite potent, but I'm referring to the amount of micromanagement the race needs to get a potent amount of healing. For Humans, we have Holy Light and Heal which is not heavy on micromanagement for it to be of actual decent use. For Orc, we have Salve and later on Healing Wards. For Undead, we have Necromancy to have soakers, and later on we have the Statues. For Night Elves, we know the wtf wells and later on Rejuvenation. What I'm concerned here is Bamboo is the race's most potent healing source yet it's hard to access except by using Bamboo from the market (and compared to healing salve, is much less potent). I'm not talking about the dude with Wine Gourd, that thing is already great and all. Perhaps the term would be "easy to access mid-fight" healings or recoveries.

3. Ah, that's an interesting approach there. I guess that'll be okay.

4. I see. Was expecting it can be moved like ancient, but that's my bad.

5. Well, the fact it is not there makes me wonder if it even exists at all. You know, the "WYSIWYG" logic.

6. Ahahaha, so that's why it has an 80G cost. Damn, this race gonna consume tons of my food for workers early on.

 

[tyya]

I agree. this model being freaking weird for it to "descend from the sky".

1. Yeah, I suppose that's personally my taste seeing it being freaking weird for it to "descend from the sky".

2. True it is quite potent, but I'm referring to the amount of micromanagement the race needs to get a potent amount of healing. For Humans, we have Holy Light and Heal which is not heavy on micromanagement for it to be of actual decent use. For Orc, we have Salve and later on Healing Wards. For Undead, we have Necromancy to have soakers, and later on we have the Statues. For Night Elves, we know the wtf wells and later on Rejuvenation. What I'm concerned here is Bamboo is the race's most potent healing source yet it's hard to access except by using Bamboo from the market (and compared to healing salve, is much less potent). I'm not talking about the dude with Wine Gourd, that thing is already great and all. Perhaps the term would be "easy to access mid-fight" healings or recoveries.

3. Ah, that's an interesting approach there. I guess that'll be okay.

4. I see. Was expecting it can be moved like ancient, but that's my bad.

5. Well, the fact it is not there makes me wonder if it even exists at all. You know, the "WYSIWYG" logic.

6. Ahahaha, so that's why it has an 80G cost. Damn, this race gonna consume tons of my food for workers early on.

 

[Yours Truly]

Map Updated!

Version 1.6:

Hidden

New Features:
- New sounds for Kegbearers activating Fermented Kegs.
- New sounds for Kegbearers throwing Fermented Kegs.
- New sounds for Fermented Kegs explosion.
- New sounds for Floating Casks jumping to their targets.
- New sounds for Floating Casks explosion, and more different explosions for each elemental casks.
- New building sounds for Wandering Temple, Singing Sanctuary and Blossoming Palace.

Bugfixes:
- Body Slam will no longer trigger on buildings.

Tooltip Fixes:
- Casks now correctly says it does 250 damage instead of 245 damage.
- Wine Gourd description now displays properly.

Balance Changes:
- Ale Rain health drain reduced to 20 health per second from 30 health per second.
- Overgrowth mana cost increased to 200 from 140.
- New upgrade: Bamboo Cultivation ( Refinery, 160 gold and lumber, requires Tier3 )
[ Bamboo now heals for an additional 150 health and cleanses all debuffs.]

- Drunkard's Resolve research moved to Alehouse to make space for Bamboo Cultivation.
- Floating Casks training time reduced to 20 seconds from 25 seconds.
- Wounded Warrior Whiskey health regeneration increased to 4% from 2%.
- Storm Disciple maximum mana increased to 300 from 250, and initial mana to 100 from 75.

 

[Nudl9]

Alemental.
lol.

 

[Yours Truly]

Map Updated!

Version 1.7:

Hidden

Bugfixes:
- Bamboo Cultivation passive indicator on Bamboo Huts now uses Passive icons instead of Command icons.
- Drunkard's Resolve upgrade now correctly positioned above Wine Gourd instead of next to Drunken Monks.

Balance Changes:
- Blade Flurry magic damage increased to 60% from 50%
- Whirling Staff attack and move speed reduction reduced to 25% from 35%
- Whirling Staff cooldown reduced to 1 second from 20 second.
- Damage amp to Inebriated enemies with Elemental Geomancy increased to 150% from 50%.
- Elemental Geomancy's Fire aura damage increased to 10 / 20 / 30 from 8 / 15 / 22.
- Elemental Geomancy now consumes the Inebriated debuff when inflicting the bonus damage.
- Earth Cask movement speed increased to 160 from 150.
- Earth Cask slow duration increased to 15 seconds from 6 seconds.
- Earth Cask armor reduced to 1 armor from 2 armor.
- Bamboo Seeds item gold cost reduced to 60 gold from 80 gold.
- Fiery Belly Ale item damage increased to 160 from 120.
- Fiery Belly Ale maximum damage increased to 800 from 650.

 

[Yours Truly]

Map Updated!

Version 1.8:

Hidden

Bugfixes:
- Fixed a bug where Happy Hour heal would be applied to the nearest Neutral Passive building instead of Chen himself (weird, I know.)
- Fixed a bug where Elemental Geomancy would not do any damage, and sometimes deal the damage twice to the nearest enemy.
- Fixed a bug where AI-Controlled Fire Cask and Earth Cask's ground effect (Burning Ground and Mini Earthquake) would magically move to the center of the map.
- Fixed a bug where Happy Hour's Drunk buff would not get its duration refreshed when changing from Storm to Earth, and Fire to Storm.

Balance Changes:
- Chen's starting Strength increased to 25 from 23.
- Fire Cask burning ground duration increased to 20 seconds from 10 seconds.
- Tapper gold cost increased to 140 gold from 125 gold.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I don't know if I've ever seen a Contestant update their entry so assiduously. Kudos, man.

 

[Yours Truly]

Come to think of it, I don't really know why I'm updating it this much. Trauma, maybe.

Harsh judgement, man. Maybe when I've shown enough evidence, the jury will be convinced....just this once.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Well, that doesn't sound healthy. Please be aware that there is no "objectively perfect" faction, and no way to assure yourself of victory. You do well to do as you are doing.

Your efforts to fine-tune your faction are all well and good, and certainly manifest a great deal of effort. I expect it to your best chance at victory. But don't mistake "best chance" for "100% shot". Don't get stuck on Results-Oriented Thinking (great explanation here)

 

[Yours Truly]

We'll see. I wouldn't bet on it though. No care is given to effort. Not surprised if it's the same case again.

 

[Wazzz]

good golly there's enough salt in here to rebuild the roman empire and have enough left over to dump on carthage

 

[deepstrasz]

good golly there's enough salt in here to rebuild the roman empire and have enough left over to dump on carthage

No one thinks of the Dead Sea anymore.

 

[stein123]

We'll see. I wouldn't bet on it though. No care is given to effort. Not surprised if it's the same case again.

Jesus, at this rate you will win first place just by keeping crying X'D

 

[Footman16]

We'll see. I wouldn't bet on it though. No care is given to effort. Not surprised if it's the same case again.

Well if the winner is based solely on effort I'm sure you'll have a fair fight on your hands

 

[Yours Truly]

good golly there's enough salt in here to rebuild the roman empire and have enough left over to dump on carthage

Saltier than my tears?

Jesus, at this rate you will win first place just by keeping crying X'D

If that's what it takes ;-;
Hey maybe if I keep the salt mine running, it would garner enough attention!

if the winner is based solely on effort

 

[Footman16]

I mean you're right because the winner is decided on more than just effort. Naturally if you put in more effort you will do better but when you have other entries that also have equal or maybe even more levels of effort then it does come down to the quality and the criteria of the judging dunno guess i just dont like the insinuation that the ther entrants havent put in effort is all

 

[Wazzz]

I mean you're right because the winner is decided on more than just effort. Naturally if you put in more effort you will do better but when you have other entries that also have equal or maybe even more levels of effort then it does come down to the quality and the criteria of the judging dunno guess i just dont like the insinuation that the ther entrants havent put in effort is all

Then, of course, there's potential for effort to be put in all the wrong areas. Working hard vs working smart.

 

[Wazzz]

With the contest having come to a close, I would like to mention on a personal note that this is the best design I've seen for a Pandaren faction. There were a lot of great ideas done here, and it's a lot of fun to play.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Approved!

 

[Daffa]

Since I haven't cast a rating in the past, here it is now. Pretty much this is a very solid Pandaren faction and should be referred to whenever people asking for pandas.