Tale of the Two brothers- part 2

Level 8
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Dec 19, 2020
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Hello everyone!

This is my first time posting in the Map Development section, so I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

I've created a story called 'Tale of the two brothers'. The story is split in two parts. Recently, I've posted the first part on Hive (can be found here: Tale of the two brothers). As you might notice, it was (rightfully) rated 'substandard' for multiple reasons, including the terraining and the lack of interesting quests.

Because of the given feedback, I've tried to work on my map-making skills, including terraining, triggering etc. The result is the attached file, which will serve as the first map of part two.

Now I have a question. Are some of you interested in playing my map and giving feedback? I would like to hear what skills I can improve before making more maps.

Thanks in advance and have fun playing it!
 

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  • Map9(3.0) Old Friends, New Enemies.w3x
    2.6 MB · Views: 59
Level 11
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Hi my fellow orc fan, I have to admit that your first campaign was totally unknown to me(and the worst part is that is recent LOL), once I finished I will return to comment(I'm at chapter 6).

Now I played this map(I lost btw my base was destroyed when I was away), and you definitely improved your terrain skills(the old one really have plain terrains). I will return when a finished this map to, the only advice right now is make some quality changes like QWERTY spells(to heroes and units alike) and to building/train units, because some hotkeys really are far way of each other or some ones share each other.

Good luck.
 
Level 8
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Hi my fellow orc fan, I have to admit that your first campaign was totally unknown to me(and the worst part is that is recent LOL), once I finished I will return to comment(I'm at chapter 6).

Now I played this map(I lost btw my base was destroyed when I was away), and you definitely improved your terrain skills(the old one really have plain terrains). I will return when a finished this map to, the only advice right now is make some quality changes like QWERTY spells(to heroes and units alike) and to building/train units, because some hotkeys really are far way of each other or some ones share each other.

Good luck.
Thanks for your feedback! Could you explain to me what you mean with QWERTY spells? I have heard the term before, but I'm unfimiliar with it.

Fun fact: I almost lost my base too while testing the map. I guess it's a good sign, because the attack waves are intended to be hard :)

Have fun playing the first part and I'm looking forward to hear your experiences.
 
Level 11
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Hello again,

About QWERT
the QWERTY, if you play some MOBA or others campaign, the spells of heroes(units) have the hotkeys QWER to speed the use of spells for example the farseer hero(the Karkrath) has chain lighting, far sight, spirit wolf and tornado so;

Q > Chain ligthing
W > Far sight
E > Spirit wolfs
T > Tornado

BTW there is this image for this site to help you to adjust the icons in the right place(some of your spells are missplace and when reload the campaign the icons moves.

warcrafticonreferencecx2-jpg.49114

Now about the map

What I like:
-I really like the Frostfang clan, so far the feel different to the rest of the orc clan in the first part.
-I like their hero too, because has more useful spells.
-Good use of sea battle(and better route).

What I don't like:
-Maybe some corridor are still small.
-The optional mission in the island is worthless.
-The wolf is expensive and don't worth it at all.

Tips
-The pillager maybe is expensive, is good against the buildings but average to anything else.
-The wolf, is just doesn't worth.
-The ultimate of the frostfang commander, if I remember well is resistance skin, this passive is useless in heroes(this passive give normal unit the resistance of heroes against some spells like devour or polymorph), because the hero unit already has these resistance, is a wasted point.

That is all for now, have a nice day.
 
Level 8
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Thanks for your feedback! It will help me to improve making future maps. Also thanks for the nice addition with the icon placement. I noticed the moving, but I didn't know how to solve it.

About your tips (I will number them to prevent future miscommunication)

1. The option island mission you render worthless. Is the mission itself worthless (not entertaining or challenging) or is the reward worthless? You do mention that the wolves are not worth it.
2. About the wolves: I must admit that I'm struggling with their stats. I don't think they are not worth it, but that is because I know they will be improved when the War Wolf upgrade becomes available. This upgrade will function as the Troll Berswerker upgrade, which will change the wolves in War Wolves. I think I will power up the wolves slightly, so they add more to the Frostfang Clan.
3. I might have gone overboard with the costs of the pillager. I will reduce their cost a bit.
4. Thanks for noticing the resistant skin. I was unaware that Heroes always have this ability, so I will change his ultimate.

As said, thanks for your feedback. It helps a lot!
 
Level 11
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Hi again.

I will number the aswers too.

1-Maybe the reward, you move your heroes far way from your base and only get a few units and some new one, maybe the time spend there aren't rewarding, but I Have to admit that there is a firelord over there but I forgot kill him so idk what drop.
2-I dare to suggest that 1) remove it or 2) that the wolf become the tier1 unit(think in the footman) and the pillager move to tier1.5(or 2), now you have a cheap cannon fodder(the wolf) and a reasonable melee siege(the pillager).
3-Good, that lumber early take me off guard.
4-I suggest that only give resistant skin to "captain units" like the wolf rider from part 1 and to permanent summoned units, like the wolf of the frostfang commander.
 
Level 8
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Thanks for your suggestions!

1. I think I will increase the reward in that case. I've already increased the hit points for the Wolf, so he becomes a more durable melee unit. I might add extra resources and an extra item. The Firelord drops an item (Firehand Gauntlets) btw.
2. It's a nice suggestion, but I think I will keep it this way. The Frostfang techtree is a bit different designed then the traditional techtrees. This makes that the wolf and the pillager both function as tier1 units. The idea was that the wolf would function as the main melee unit, while the pillager would function as a siege unit. This was not clear when testing this map, so maybe this solves the wolf problem :)
3. I've reduced both the gold and lumber cost, so they are cheaper (and easier) to build.
4. The pet wolf, Herak, has resistant skin when reaching level 3. You only have to level him up:wink:.

Hopefully, this solves most of your feedback points.
 
Level 8
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I've updated the concept version of my map. Update includes:

  • Wolf being beefed up.
  • Reward is more for fullfilling optional quest (more resources and an item)
  • Fezgrel has partly different abilities

For those who are interested :wink::wink:
 

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  • Map9(4.0) Old Friends, New Enemies.w3x
    2.7 MB · Views: 25
Level 11
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Hi RvP21 I already test this new version.

1- Well they are more powerful now, but there is a still a problem, you need to build other type of build to train it.
2- The extra resources definitely help early, especially because you can rush the place.
3- Now the warlock finally has the power.

Some bugs that I found

1-Cromash the elfsayer has the title/hero class "cromash the elfsalyer"
2-In the cinematic after help the frostfang clan there is 2 cromash in the place(evil twin perhaps?
3-I suffer a blackout and after reload the map, the spellbook of Karkath doesn't work, I suffer badly without the healing rain.
4-Idk if was for the blackout but the ending cinematic doesn't work.
5-Fezgrel his ultimate has T as hotkey rather than R D:
6- IDK if is a bug, but Karkath and Fezgrel reach level 6, Cromash level 5 and Gorfax level 4

I really believe that this chapter is enjoyable.
 
Level 8
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Hi RvP21 I already test this new version.

1- Well they are more powerful now, but there is a still a problem, you need to build other type of build to train it.
2- The extra resources definitely help early, especially because you can rush the place.
3- Now the warlock finally has the power.

Some bugs that I found

1-Cromash the elfsayer has the title/hero class "cromash the elfsalyer"
2-In the cinematic after help the frostfang clan there is 2 cromash in the place(evil twin perhaps?
3-I suffer a blackout and after reload the map, the spellbook of Karkath doesn't work, I suffer badly without the healing rain.
4-Idk if was for the blackout but the ending cinematic doesn't work.
5-Fezgrel his ultimate has T as hotkey rather than R D:
6- IDK if is a bug, but Karkath and Fezgrel reach level 6, Cromash level 5 and Gorfax level 4

I really believe that this chapter is enjoyable.
Hi!

1. I don't get what you mean.

About the bugs:
1. That's not good. I will change it.
2. That's not meant to happen. I will see about it.
3. Strange. It didn't happen to me. I will replay the map soon to look at it.
4. This is strange as well.
5. I can fix that.
6. That is meant to be this way. It focuses on the seniority of the two elder heroes :)

Thanks for your feedback!
 
Level 11
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1. I don't get what you mean.
My bad, I forget answer this.

The wolf is a basic unit but you need to create a tier 2 building(Bestiary) to train it, try to move it to the barracks and its basic upgrade too, I know that this maybe break the "inmersion" but I'm sure that the frostfang clan will get more beasts to use that bestiary and if you can still put the future upgrade "war wolf" on it as advance upgrade.
 
Level 8
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My bad, I forget answer this.

The wolf is a basic unit but you need to create a tier 2 building(Bestiary) to train it, try to move it to the barracks and its basic upgrade too, I know that this maybe break the "inmersion" but I'm sure that the frostfang clan will get more beasts to use that bestiary and if you can still put the future upgrade "war wolf" on it as advance upgrade.
I see what you mean. The Wolf Den is actually a tier one building. You can build it from the beginning (so yes, you have two tier one buildings ). Maybe I didnt clarify this enough. :(
 
Level 8
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Hi everyone!

I've made the second chapter of this campaign. If someone would give it a try to play the map and give feedback afterwards, that would be great:thumbs_up:.

Thanks in advance and enjoy!
 

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  • Map10 Battle at Parthel-Enath (V2.0).w3x
    8.4 MB · Views: 15
Level 2
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I played chapter 2 and it feels like a great improvement from the first campaign, i only have a few problems, you have two main quest and the second one takes a while to get the reward, it's more efficient to just kill all the nightelf bases, i played for like 30 minutes and all orc bases were doing fine i didn't even try to protect them and the main quest says that all orc bases must survive, maybe you could buff the attack waves a little bit?
 
Level 8
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I played chapter 2 and it feels like a great improvement from the first campaign, i only have a few problems, you have two main quest and the second one takes a while to get the reward, it's more efficient to just kill all the nightelf bases, i played for like 30 minutes and all orc bases were doing fine i didn't even try to protect them and the main quest says that all orc bases must survive, maybe you could buff the attack waves a little bit?
Hi Cartock! Thanks for your feedback!.

I see what you mean with the two quests. It is up to the player which tactic they want to use. Getting the reward takes some time, but it helps taking out the Night Elf bases. On the other hand, it is tempting to take out some enemy bases, so getting the reward becomes more easy.

I for myself prefer to take out one or two enemy bases first, then get the reward and then rush to the end. I think this differs for every player, now every player has it's own playing style. :)

About the orc bases: In the first versions of this map, the attack waves were more frequent. This caused the Frostfang base to be overwhelmed often. Because I wanted to survive all orc clans, I added this requirement.

Problem was that the attacks were so often, that the map beame almost unwinnable (even for myself).I scaled them down a bit, which makes the map easier. It was just not fun to play my own map anymore because I had to babysit my allies:grin:.

I've decided to keep this requirement though. Reason for this is that the emerald and brown attack sometimes join each other and attack together the frostfang. This is something which happens accidentally, and when this happens, you will have to aid your allies. This requirement became more of a safety net, although I understand this is confusing when nothing serious happens.

Hopefully, this explains the encountered problems. Thanks for your feedback. I hope you enjoyed testing the map.
 
Level 25
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Played Old Friends New Enemies (3.0) on 1.31.

I liked it, no major bugs that I could see (although saving gets noticeably slower after a while, maybe there's a looping trigger somewhere?).
Some tooltip and grammar errors, but it remains understandable.
Attacks can be tough if you aren't prepared, and overall I'd say the key is to abuse the AoE casters.

  • Catapults and Juggernauts can't attack trees (and the trees might be invulnerable).
  • The Hunters and Border Guard attack waves sometimes come in at the same time.
  • Night Elf Battleships have a tendency to move without attacking (I think they have a minimum range with the 1800 range).
  • Blue base should be entirely attackable by sea units, otherwise they can snipe away with glaive throwers.
  • Spiders south of the base can attack lumber harvesters.
  • "Communication Center" doesn't really fit the fantasy theme, maybe call it Signaling Tower?

Will get to the second one later.
 
Level 8
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Hi cleavinghammer!

Thanks for your feedback. Glad to hear you liked it. That is the purpose of these maps.

  • Catapults and Juggernauts can't attack trees (and the trees might be invulnerable).
The trees are almost invulnerable (max HP). I don't like the concept of deforestation in a wood so... :wink:

  • The Hunters and Border Guard attack waves sometimes come in at the same time.
That's on purpose. You're getting a tough time, but this mission includes four heroes, so they should be counterable. But I admit that it can be hard and that is sometimes requires more patience :) .

  • Night Elf Battleships have a tendency to move without attacking (I think they have a minimum range with the 1800 range).
That's not supposed to happen. They are having a really long range, but they have to attack your base at the sea side. I will take a look at it over time. Thanks!

  • Blue base should be entirely attackable by sea units, otherwise they can snipe away with glaive throwers.
The base is meant to be a drop off zone with coastal landing. Attacking it with land units should fix the glaive thrower problem, but yes only boats will not fix this base.

  • Spiders south of the base can attack lumber harvesters.
I already added some extra trees, but it seems those spiders are not giving up easily. I will change it.

  • "Communication Center" doesn't really fit the fantasy theme, maybe call it Signaling Tower?
Nice suggestion! I will take it in consideration when I will rework the map.

Thanks for your feedback. Eventually, I will take a look at the map. I hope you enjoy playing the next map as well. :grin:
 
Level 25
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Ugh. Finally got through, there's lots of lag spikes and buildup (to the point where the game crashes if you try loading from the game instead of restarting and loading from the menu). I think it's the custom spells.

  • Allies should ping when they're going to attack.
  • Is there a way to stop the dragon attacks?
  • Demiheroes should warn when they die and are restored, and maybe have a timer.
  • Troll hero's aura needs a DISBTN.
  • Trolls and ogres don't seem to have separate techtrees as the log states.
  • Boots of Darkness can be clicked but don't do anything.
  • Palantir of Darkness doesn't show its cooldown.
  • Cromash doesn't attack dragons despite having a frost orb.
  • Fountain should be better indicated, I thought it was either the Shrine or the Fountain of Mana.
  • The reward for the gray base is just a circlet?
  • Mountain Giants can sometimes be Ensnared and sometimes not.
  • Normal music plays during cutscene music.


Poor Fezgrel. "You said not to use the skeletons, so I'm not using them! What do you want from me?"
 
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Level 8
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Hi Cleavinghammer! Thanks for your feedback (again:wink:). At the moment, I'm having a break from map-making, but I will take your feedback into account later. Some notes:

Allies should ping when they're going to attack.
I would like to add this, but I don't have any idea how to do it. Any suggestions?

Ugh. Finally got through, there's lots of lag spikes and buildup (to the point where the game crashes if you try loading from the game instead of restarting and loading from the menu). I think it's the custom spells.
That might be the case. The map includes some custom spells. And yes, I've encountered the lags as well. :(

Normal music plays during cutscene music.
It's something I've tried to stop, but for some reason it just keeps happening. I'm probably doing something wrong :ogre_rage:, but I don't know what.

That's it for now. I will take a look to your feedback when I restart map-making. For now, I will enjoy my break. :grin:
 
Level 4
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Hello everyone!

This is my first time posting in the Map Development section, so I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

I've created a story called 'Tale of the two brothers'. The story is split in two parts. Recently, I've posted the first part on Hive (can be found here: Tale of the two brothers). As you might notice, it was (rightfully) rated 'substandard' for multiple reasons, including the terraining and the lack of interesting quests.

Because of the given feedback, I've tried to work on my map-making skills, including terraining, triggering etc. The result is the attached file, which will serve as the first map of part two.

Now I have a question. Are some of you interested in playing my map and giving feedback? I would like to hear what skills I can improve before making more maps.

Thanks in advance and have fun playing it!

Hey there broo anychance you had W3N version of TALES OF TWOO BROTHERS Part 2 campaign ?
 
Level 8
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hey man i played the mission i didn t find any bugs to be honest but the mission was very easy the blood orcs are really op
Hi gaurdian of the flame! Glad you didn't find any bugs. I see what you mean with the Blood Orcs being op. Honestly, they are meant to be a lot stronger then the other factions, so this is on purpose.
About the mission being easy: I must admit that I'm struggling to balance this mission. There are a lot of factors that could make this mission complicated (two factions to play with, a lot of enemies etc.). The first version of the map was so hard I couldn't finish it and I'm the one who knows what to expect :sad:. So I decided to scale it down with several tries. This is the most balanced result in the end. However, improvements can be made and are welcome. If you have any suggestions, please post them. I will consider reworking it in the map.
 
Level 8
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so sorry friend which mean the map is to be play in costum campaign mode.
I suppose you mean if there is a custom campaign file. I'm working on it, but it ain't finished. Honestly, I'm planning on finishing it when I've finished all the maps. At the moment, the maps do not connect at all, so posting the file isn't an improvement in my opinion.:wink:
 
Level 8
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Hi gaurdian of the flame! Glad you didn't find any bugs. I see what you mean with the Blood Orcs being op. Honestly, they are meant to be a lot stronger then the other factions, so this is on purpose.
About the mission being easy: I must admit that I'm struggling to balance this mission. There are a lot of factors that could make this mission complicated (two factions to play with, a lot of enemies etc.). The first version of the map was so hard I couldn't finish it and I'm the one who knows what to expect :sad:. So I decided to scale it down with several tries. This is the most balanced result in the end. However, improvements can be made and are welcome. If you have any suggestions, please post them. I will consider reworking it in the map.
hey man i have a few suggestions to say really first since the blood orcs are the strongest faction i think you should add night elf heroes in the night elfs bases also you should move the fountain of health to the ogre and trolls base since the blood orcs will have shrine after destroying the first night elf base also i think you should add some night elf reinforcements waves to make it a bit harder for example make the first wave arrival be after 10 or 15 minutes after the game start that was all i had in mind really i hope you find them useful
 
Level 8
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Hi gaurdian of the flame! Thanks for the suggestions!

I like the idea of adding Night Elf heroes. I'm not sure if I will add them to all bases, because that could outbalance the NE as well, but one or two heroes would do.

Replacing the fountain is something I will not do because of the following: the blood orcs are lacking healing this mission. Adding the fountain was necessary. Otherwise you will lose a lot of units early, which will make it harder to win the mission.

Reinforcing the NE waves with extra units sounds promising enough :)

Thanks for your feedback! I will rework it later.

Edit: Decided to rework the feedback right away. Here is the new mission. It includes two extra enemy heroes and one of the bases develops more deadly attacks over time (including with their hero). Feel free to test it :wink:
 

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  • Map11 Steel and Fire.w3x
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Level 8
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Hello everyone!

I have finished chapter twelve of the tale. For those who like to play and test it, I post the map here. Any feedback on the map is appreciated. :wink:
 

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  • Map12 Crossing the Swamp.w3x
    2.8 MB · Views: 2
Level 8
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Hello everyone!

I have finished chapter twelve of the tale. For those who like to play and test it, I post the map here. Any feedback on the map is appreciated. :wink:
hey man i played the mission but i didn't finish it and i don t think that i will finish because i didn't like it i mean its not hard but i just didn't like it anyway i found there bugs the first one the goblin son doesn't move away from the cage but the mission is still be able to finish it by returning to the goblin so that is not very important anyway also the pillager doesn't receive the updates i mean he attack and armor remain even after doing the melee attack and armor upgrades and the last one the warcry skill doesn't have a cooldown so yeah that what i found and if i finished the mission and something i will tell you and sorry for the grammar mistakes English is not my main language
 
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Hi gaurdian of the flame!

Do you not like the map bacause of the bugs or do you not like the map at all?

About the bugs: I fixed them. I do not know why the goblin child didn't leave the cage, but he does when I played the map. I've changed the mission, so you can claim you're reward after the child returns, not beforehand.
I don't know why the pillager doesn't receive his upgrades. They do when I play it. I reckon it happens because I placed an exported file here instead of the campaign file. My bad...
I have placed the campaign file here. Chapter 12 should be playable without the bugs.

Warcry doesn't have a cooldown because it is based on roar (which doesn't have one either). On the other hand, you are having a point that warcry is spamable now, so I added a cooldown to scale the ability down a bit :)

You don't have to apologise for the grammar mistakes. I would recommend to place some dots (.) though. It makes your message more readable.

Thank you for your feedback and regards.
 

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  • Tale of the Two Brothers - Part Two (1).w3n
    33.2 MB · Views: 9
Level 8
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Hi gaurdian of the flame!

Do you not like the map bacause of the bugs or do you not like the map at all?

About the bugs: I fixed them. I do not know why the goblin child didn't leave the cage, but he does when I played the map. I've changed the mission, so you can claim you're reward after the child returns, not beforehand.
I don't know why the pillager doesn't receive his upgrades. They do when I play it. I reckon it happens because I placed an exported file here instead of the campaign file. My bad...
I have placed the campaign file here. Chapter 12 should be playable without the bugs.

Warcry doesn't have a cooldown because it is based on roar (which doesn't have one either). On the other hand, you are having a point that warcry is spamable now, so I added a cooldown to scale the ability down a bit :)

You don't have to apologise for the grammar mistakes. I would recommend to place some dots (.) though. It makes your message more readable.

Thank you for your feedback and regards.
hey man i just finished chapter six and it was a bit hard but also it was fun and i didn't find any bugs. however chapter seven i don't know what is it but its not a playable chapter its just an unfinished map or something like that. however if i have enough time i will replay the first five chapters too and find if there any bugs in it. and also how many chapters are you planning to make. anyway good luck with campaign. also i feel sad for karakeh i know i might have wrote it wrong but remember his name to be honest.
 
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Hi gaurdian of the flame!

Thank you for testing the next map as well. Glad you did not find any bugs :) . The next map is not playable, because I posted the file I'm working on. So, you saw a part of the next map to come.

Feel free to replay the other maps. They have been reworked at some points with the feedback given in this thread. The maps are not connected to each other, so the heroes do not carry over yet.

I'm planning on making nine playable maps. The first five have been finished. I'm currently working on the terrain of the sixth map.


also i feel sad for karakeh
It is intended that you feel sad, so I wrote the scene right :)

Regards.
 
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