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Spells should be as map files

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Deleted member 219079

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Mine are all .rar zip files. Irritating.
 
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Deleted member 219079

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They all open in WinRAR. In that archive there's the map containing the spell.

Even the map section itself has straight out map files.

Edit: They're zip files, but that's beside my point.
 

Ralle

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They all open in WinRAR. In that archive there's the map containing the spell.

Even the map section itself has straight out map files.

Edit: They're zip files, but that's beside my point.
That's on your computer. WinRAR is terrible software. I don't blame you for hating it.

The reason for sending zip files is because you will want the readme file so you can give proper credit.

@LordDz, yes, same reason.
 

Deleted member 219079

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Lol. Rather edit the map file name to include author name than destroy seamlessness. Atm I can't click download and use WE open dialog right away to open the map. Besides this is all implying there isn't browser tab of the spell in bg or there isn't owner name in the map. It's on creator if he forgets such basic practice as including own name in map anyway.

Edit: As to clarify, my downloads folder has thousands of files so it's a burden to navigate it.
 
There's something positive to download a .zip, especially because we actually talk about 'bundles'.
But it would be very convenient being able to download single components since in much cases the users
solely want to download and instantly use/open the resource. If you do it often, for example spell testing,
it can get a bit annoying to move, unpack, click insider folder (to open map), delete the .zip, just instead of directly starting.
 

pyf

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@jondrean: I am a bit lost as to what the problem is.

I understand you want to uncompress downloaded archives containing resources into a single folder, regardless of the directory structure within said archives, so you can load any of them decompressed resources easily from Word Editor.

...in which case it can easily be done, especially with WinRAR.
 

Deleted member 219079

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Then you failed to read the title of the thread.
 

pyf

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I did read it. And your posts too. And I am still confused, as to what the problem is.
I point out, I am totally unfamiliar with WE, but I know WinRAR a little bit...

[...] in much cases the users solely want to download and instantly use/open the resource. If you do it often, for example spell testing,
it can get a bit annoying to move, unpack, click insider folder (to open map), delete the .zip, just instead of directly starting.

One can mass-extract archives into any folder, without their directory structure (if any), and delete the extracted archives, all in a single pass. Can it help here in any way?
 

Dr Super Good

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Lol. Rather edit the map file name to include author name than destroy seamlessness. Atm I can't click download and use WE open dialog right away to open the map. Besides this is all implying there isn't browser tab of the spell in bg or there isn't owner name in the map. It's on creator if he forgets such basic practice as including own name in map anyway.
Open the zip file and then double click the map. Windows XP and newer have native zip file support. WinRar might have disabled this...

If you do it often, for example spell testing,
it can get a bit annoying to move, unpack, click insider folder (to open map), delete the .zip, just instead of directly starting.
Windows should allow one to seamlessly travers zips to browse and open files. The only reason one has to ever extract zips is when trying to run a program from one as it messes up the file path and write permissions for the program so it will often be unable to find or write data.

I recommend 7zip instead
So do I. I use 7zip all the time as well.
 

pyf

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@LordDz: can 7-Zip mass-extract archives into any folder, without their directory structure (if any), and delete the extracted archives, all in a single pass?

Jondrean mentioned earlier he has WinRAR installed, since his archives open with it.

I always suggest to install both WinRAR and 7-Zip, like me. I personally believe WinRAR is better with archive management.
 
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Deleted member 219079

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Open the zip file and then double click the map. Windows XP and newer have native zip file support. WinRar might have disabled this...
Cool trick, I associated explorer with .zip and I like the integration, but I don't see .zip files in open dialog. I'd still fiddle with the downloads folder that has 1126 files in it.

Edit: Btw, double click has never worked for me lol.
 

deepstrasz

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Spells should be as map files
Don't be lazy and extract the archive's contents. Are all spells only just a .w3x or are the archives having something else in them as well? If they only contain a Warcraft III map extension then imagine that somebody would have to reupload all spells.
 
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Lol that's just a matter of writing a script for it that transfers the zips to map files.
 

deepstrasz

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Edit: As to clarify, my downloads folder has thousands of files so it's a burden to navigate it.
Save to specified location?
Lol that's just a matter of writing a script for it that transfers the zips to map files.
That simple, huh? Do it and notify the chief.
The reason for sending zip files is because you will want the readme file so you can give proper credit.
Actually that can be arranged within the quest log. Also, the description can be on the Hive thread main post as most resources have it.
 
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pyf

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Spells should be as map files
:goblin_jawdrop:
@jondrean: I have already read both the thread's title and your posts. There is no point at all in keeping repeating said thread's title. Especially the way you decided to do it.

Now, from what I understand, you want the spells to be downloadable as w3x files because you do not want to extract them from the archives they are in, even though you have previously installed a third party file archiver, which allows you to do this and more.

Mine are all .rar zip files. Irritating.
I see nothing to be irritated about.

You might want to make file extensions to be always visible from Windows Explorer.

They all open in WinRAR. In that archive there's the map containing the spell.[...] Edit: They're zip files [...].
So you are dealing with w3x file(s) inside a zip archive. Fine.
Uncompress the archive. You have previously installed a third party software which can do it.

Lol. Rather edit the map file name to include author name than destroy seamlessness.
You may do it after file extraction, using a new filename which suits your own needs.

Atm I can't click download and use WE open dialog right away to open the map.
Decompress your newly-downloaded archives first.

Besides this is all implying there isn't browser tab of the spell in bg or there isn't owner name in the map.
I fail to understand. Can you or someone else please enlighten me?

It's on creator if he forgets such basic practice as including own name in map anyway.
You can not blame a creator for releasing his stuff the way he wants to.

Edit: As to clarify, my downloads folder has thousands of files so it's a burden to navigate it.
Get organized. Create subfolders.

I point out, you can use Windows Search to quickly find archives with w3x files in it (or whatever part of file name / extension in an archive), in case your downloads folder is a mess of files. Btw, your already installed third party software can do it too.

Compressing MPQ files, eg maps, seems kind of pointless [...]
There's something positive to download a .zip, [...]
The reason for sending zip files is because you will want the readme file so you can give proper credit.
It also allows to quickly verify the integrity of the downloaded resource. Remember how we were plagued a few months ago, by big DLs stopping for no apparent reason?

It's a common issue with Winrar that you have to click on the close key since nobody pays for it.
I recommend 7zip instead. Free and no popup begging you to buy it.
Compressing Software

Windows XP and newer have native zip file support. WinRar might have disabled this...
WinRAR does not hijack file extensions. When one installs WinRAR, one can decide to associate it with any file format it supports. Associations can be disabled at will from within its Options / Parameters / Integration Tab menu.

Associating WinRAR with zip files does not prevent Windows Search to work at its fullest (= zips will be searched too).

Cool trick, I associated explorer with .zip and I like the integration, but I don't see .zip files in open dialog.
It is not a trick. It is a feature, first introduced in Windows Millenium for zip files iirc.

Brought as a public service:
Zip Folders - Enable or Disable Windows Explorer View - Windows 7 Help Forums
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/14200/windows-compress-uncompress-zip-files

I'd still fiddle with the downloads folder that has 1126 files in it.
You can mass-extract archives into any folder, without their directory structure (if any), and delete the extracted archives, all in a single pass.

Here is a clue; hope it helps:

WinRAR - extraction without paths.jpg

Edit: Btw, double click has never worked for me lol.
I fail to understand what is so funny, about doubleclicking not working on your OS for some reason.

Why is there a folder inside a zip? Eg...
Aerial Aid v1.01.zip\Aerial Aid v1.01

It would be more convenient without the nested folder.
Fyi, more reading about folder/subfolder non-extraction from archives:
Extract archive here, autodetect subfolder
7-Zip / Feature Requests / #884 Remove Redundant Folders From Extraction Path

Spells should be as map files
Rude... :thumbs_down:

Don't be lazy and extract the archive's contents. Are all spells only just a .w3x or are the archives having something else in them as well? If they only contain a Warcraft III map extension then imagine that somebody would have to reupload all spells.
+rep :thumbs_up:

Lol that's just a matter of writing a script for it that transfers the zips to map files.
No. That is just a matter of you, deciding to use the software you have previously installed for that purpose, which is to decompress files.

That's on your computer. WinRAR is terrible software. I don't blame you for hating it.
:eekani: He never wrote that afaik.
 

Deleted member 219079

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I'm saying that spells should be as map files, the current operation is an unnecessary burden. If opposing, state clearly why not do the change instead of random quoting.
 
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Pyf I kinda get the feeling you just quoted people to have something to post rather than having a useful thing to say..

Having templates and spells download as .w3x instead of .zip, would save time and energy. Especially for map moderators.
 

Dr Super Good

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WinRAR does not hijack file extensions. When one installs WinRAR, one can decide to associate it with any file format it supports. Associations can be disabled at will from within its Options / Parameters / Integration Tab menu.

Associating WinRAR with zip files does not prevent Windows Search to work at its fullest (= zips will be searched too).
However it will disable native file system support of them. This is because opening them will go through WinRAR instead of through Explorer.

Fyi, more reading about folder/subfolder non-extraction from archives:
I was asking why there was a folder inside the zip, instead of all the files being in the root. I guess it might be to avoid a name conflict with the readme.txt files but one could achieve the same by giving each a unique name.
 

pyf

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However it will disable native file system support of them. This is because opening them will go through WinRAR instead of through Explorer.
When one decides to use any third party archive manager, one precisely *wants* to use something better than the (barebones imho) Zip Folders feature, which is built-in in Windows since Windows Millenium.

One can still use this built-in feature, even when a third party archive manager is already installed and associated with zip files. One only has to right-click on the zip archive, and then select 'Explorer' from the context menu.


Well-behaved third party archive managers allow the user to choose to activate / deactivate file associations with it at will. Well-behaved software as a whole does not hijack file extensions.

When one decides to deactivate zip file association with a third party software, then Windows will associate zip files with another third party software installed able to manage zip files, if it is already associated with zip files too. If no other such other third party software meets these conditions, then Windows should revert to its built-in Zip Folders feature. The reg files I pointed to earlier allow to do it differently for zip and cab files.

In my case, choosing to deactivate zip file association with WinRAR, makes Stuffit Expander become my new archive manager/decompressor for zip files (yuck!).


Windows Search's features should be unaffected by all this, and will/should use Windows' built-in zip features always.

I was asking why there was a folder inside the zip, instead of all the files being in the root.[...]

Having one folder inside an archive is common and sensible safety measure, because one may extract an archive by using 'Extract here' instead of 'Extract to folder'. This is common best practice, used notably by shareware authors.

I again point out, good archive managers can decompress files without the directory structure stored in the archive (if any). Should there be name collisions, a menu appears for any necessary user interaction.
 
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Dr Super Good

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When one decides to use any third party archive manager, one precisely *wants* to use something better than the (barebones imho) Zip Folders feature, which is built-in in Windows since Windows Millenium.
The idea of Zip is to be transparent with regard to operating system usage. This makes it a lot more user friendly to use than any third party program. Honestly I am surprised that Windows Explorer has not had an archive extension API added to it so that third party archive managers can add native file system support for their archive type.

Having one folder inside an archive is common and sensible safety measure, because one may extract an archive by using 'Extract here' instead of 'Extract to folder'. This is common best practice, used notably by shareware authors.

I again point out, good archive managers can decompress files without the directory structure stored in the archive (if any). Should there be name collisions, a menu appears for any necessary user interaction.
It just means one has to not only open the archive, but the folder inside to access the map. This is two steps longer instead of only 1.

The extract here feature of the inbuilt zip support will already warn of name collisions when extracting.
 

pyf

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The idea of Zip is to be transparent with regard to operating system usage. This makes it a lot more user friendly to use than any third party program.
I personally find Zip Folders to be confusing.
Also, this feature is not designed for any serious archive management imho.

Honestly I am surprised that Windows Explorer has not had an archive extension API added to it so that third party archive managers can add native file system support for their archive type.
Some time after WinMe was released, an exploitable vulnerability was discovered in Zip Folders; it was then advised to disable / not use them. Of course, MS released a patch as usual but hey, how many non-geek/non-tech users cared about (painfully) patching their home W9x/Me OS? Remember, official Service Packs were only for NT-based OSes...

I guess, this flaw certainly did not help Zip Folder's popularity among programers.
Windows Me Exposed Passwords in Compressed Files Vulnerability Patch
Third party software should rely on OS components as little as possible imho.


Update: a bit of research reminds me Zip Folders (named Compressed Folders in Me) had to be installed, since they were an optional OS component:
Source: Bo's Windows Millennium Tips & Tricks Page

CREATE, VIEW, AND EXTRACT ARCHIVE FILES
With Win Me you have everything you need


PROBLEM: You have Windows Millennium (Me) installed on your computer and you want to be able to create, view, and/or extract compressed archive files (ZIP files) without having to purchase and install a third-party application.

SOLUTION: Windows Me ships with everything you need to create, view, and/or extract archive files (Me calls them "compressed folders" instead of the more common ZIP naming convention). However, this capability isn't installed by default.

To add ZIP-file support, open the Windows Control Panel's Add/Remove Programs applet (from your Start button, select Settings, Control Panel, and then Add/Remove Programs). Once the Add/Remove Programs Properties window appears, flip over to the Windows Setup tab, select the System Tools component, and click on the Details button. In the System Tools window that appears, select Compressed Folders and click OK. Click the OK button once more to have Windows begin installing the Compressed Folders component (you will be prompted for your Windows Me installation CD, so have it handy).

Once installed, you can view ZIP files in Windows Explorer or My Computer by double-clicking on the ZIP file. You can also add new files to existing ZIP files by dragging and dropping the files directly onto the ZIP file. To create a new ZIP file, right- click on the file to be compressed and select Compressed Folder from the Send To menu. Or you can create a new, empty ZIP file by selecting New and Compressed Folder from the Windows Explorer File menu, and then drag and drop files onto it.

It just means one has to not only open the archive, but the folder inside to access the map. This is two steps longer instead of only 1.
Obviously. Now, is that really an issue?
Better decompress the archive, without its directory structure imho.

The extract here feature of the inbuilt zip support will already warn of name collisions when extracting.
In case of name collision, Zip Folders / Explorer will provide less options than a third party archive manager:

built-in Zip Folders - name collision.jpg third party archive manager - name collision.jpg
 

Dr Super Good

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Third party software should rely on OS components as little as possible imho.
Hence why third party software should be able to offer service providers for certain archive formats.

It would be amazingly convenient if one could open a WC3 map archive with explorer and browse it like a normal folder. As an example...
Obviously. Now, is that really an issue?
Seeing how this entire topic is about any extra steps, then yes it is an issue and yes it is relevant.

Depending on the extractor used, it might default to extract a folder of the archive name. Hence there would end up being 2 nested folders before one can get to the map.
In case of name collision, Zip Folders / Explorer will provide less options than a third party archive manager:
Not all such options are needed.
 

Deleted member 219079

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Deleted member 219079

So these two changes fixed my problem:

Associate .zip with Windows Explorer:
  1. Press Win, search for "change the file type associated with a file extension"
  2. Go to .zip, change program to Windows Explorer

Correct NewGen WE shell open command:
  1. Press Win+R, type regedit and press enter
  2. Navigate to HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Applications\newgen we.exe\shell\open\command
  3. Add "-loadfile" (no quotes) before "%1"
And now I can launch the map file straight from .zip file.

Edit: But spells should still be as map files obv lmao
 

pyf

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Once again I am summoned. So, here we go again... :xxd:

Hence why third party software should be able to offer service providers for certain archive formats.
It would be amazingly convenient if one could open a WC3 map archive with explorer and browse it like a normal folder. As an example...
Third party archive managers have an explorer-like window, which allows one to seamlessly explore his/her HDD contents. They also support more archive formats than Windows Explorer. They allow to launch programs from within an archive (the full program in decompressed in the temp folder, and it is run from here). If files are added/modified while said program is run, then the archive's contents are updated when said program and the third party archive manager are closed (in that order).

Some software may be able to make use of third party external libraries (such as zlib), to provide loading of static files compressed inside archives. Emulators come to mind here, since they support the loading of compressed resources.

Regarding WE, maps or campaigns must be uncompressed first, for WE to see them in the 'Open Map...' menu. Maybe someone here will kindly ask Blizzard to add zip/rar/7z support to WE with next patch?

But whatever: w3x files can be loaded in WE when they are properly associated with it, regardless the fact they are in an archive or not. One clicks the archive to see its contents, then clicks on the map, which loads WE and the w3x file.

Seeing how this entire topic is about any extra steps, then yes it is an issue and yes it is relevant.
I personally see this topic as being about being organized, about using Windows' built-in features, and about using a third party archive manager which is already installed.

@jondrean:
Regarding extra steps, one may want to use singleclicking instead of doubleclicking. This feature is built-in in Windows since Windows 98. Good third party archive managers allow to use singleclicking from within their explorer-like window.


Archives exist since decades, because they are convenient for:
- easily transferring two of more files
- transferring files faster
- easily verifying data integrity after a file transfer

Non-compressible files can be simply stored inside an archive. This allows for the fastest file extraction, because no compression algo was used here.

Now, I do not know of any tool which allows to quickly and easily check for mpq integrity after a download. Therefore, the best solution to do it after a download is to put files into an archive, be it compressed or not.


Downloads should go into appropriate subfolders. Hundreds and hundreds of files into a single folder is not a thing to do.

Windows allows to search for files inside archives by using various criteria. This feature was already built-in in Windows 95. Searching inside zip files was added with Windows Me. Third party archive managers allow this too. They support more compressed file formats than Windows Search.

Depending on the extractor used, it might default to extract a folder of the archive name. Hence there would end up being 2 nested folders before one can get to the map.

Good third party archive managers allow to display an archive's contents in 'flat' mode. Meaning, each and every file inside an archive will be visible from the root of said archive, even when they are in a directory structure. It allows for easy drag and drop of selected files, without having to venture inside a directory structure to find and extract them.

Good third party archive managers allow to extract an archive's contents without its directory structure (if any). If there is a name collision, the user is prompted for user interaction with a full set of possibilities to choose from.

Good third party archive managers allow to automatically delete an archive after its successful extraction.

Good third party archive managers generally come with a command line version, which notably allows for (unattended) batch work.

Not all such options are needed.
Contrary to shell extensions, standard dialog boxes do not adapt to a specific context.
These options are suited for all relevant cases.


It's a common issue with Winrar that you have to click on the close key since nobody pays for it.
This behavior is by design. WinRAR is a shareware, not a freeware.

The reminder only appears after the end of the official trial period. The shareware WinRAR should never expire, therefore nobody should feel forced to buy it.

The Unrar source may be freely downloaded and used in any software to handle RAR archives without limitations free of charge. There also exists a free precompiled unrar dll package one may use into his freeware or commercial programs without any additional fees. For those interested, It is all available here.

I recommend 7zip instead. Free and no popup begging you to buy it.

You still have not answered my question: can 7-Zip mass-extract archives into any folder, without their directory structure (if any), and delete the extracted archives, all in a single pass? And while I am at it, can it gracefully deal with name collisions?


Pyf I kinda get the feeling you just quoted people to have something to post rather than having a useful thing to say..

I previously split-quoted people to more precisely answer them. If I misplaced any split quote, please let me know.

It is my belief, what I am writing in this thread is very useful. :wink:

Having templates and spells download as .w3x instead of .zip, would save time and energy. Especially for map moderators.
Time? Zip archives decompress in no time, unless one still uses a PC from the early 1990s.
Energy? Decompression is all a one-step process, which could even be automated.

Since I am not a Map moderator, it is up to them to express their needs here regarding file / archive management.


I'm saying that spells should be as map files, the current operation is an unnecessary burden. If opposing, state clearly why not do the change instead of random quoting.

I am not quoting randomly. Please read again.

Zip files allow to quickly verify the integrity of any downloaded data. Regarding THW, have you already forgotten how we were plagued a few months ago, by big DLs stopping for no apparent reason?

Decompressing archives is not a burden. Even directory structures inside some of them are not an issue. Please learn how to make the most out of your third party software.

I have previously provided you a clue, regarding how to mass-extract archives into any folder, without their directory structure (if any), and delete the extracted archives, all in a single pass.


So these two changes fixed my problem:
Associate .zip with Windows Explorer:
[...]

Correct NewGen WE shell open command:
[...]

And now I can launch the map file straight from .zip file.
Edit: But spells should still be as map files obv lmao
You could already launch them that way with your third party archive manager too. It has an explorer-like window, btw.

This being said, the best, clearest and easiest way to manage a resource compressed inside an archive is to... decompress it somewhere.

Window's built-in decompression facilities are not suited for decent archive management. Therefore, at least one third party archive manager should be installed on any PC. I am pointing out, all third party software is not programed equal.

Being organized with his/her files is not a problem.

Maps should be as spell files. :grin:
 

pyf

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Computers were my time-consuming hobby when I was younger.
Nowadays I simply use software, like anybody else would.

I use PCs since the early 1990s. Back then, using data compression / decompression software such as PKZIP was kind of mandatory when one wanted to use sharewares/freewares, or simply save his/her own stuff on floppy disks.

Storage space was valuable then. Fyi, my second PC from 1994/1996 had a 360 KB floppy disk drive, and a 10 MB HDD. Quite an improvement over my previous one which had no HDD at all, only two 720 KB floppy disk drives.


I consider data compression to be one of the fascinating practical uses of advanced mathematics. The breakthroughs with new algos since the last 30 years are very impressive. Even today it is a major research field, notably because it is tied to the preservation of knowledge. Too bad the casual computer user does not realize it, nor cares about the technologies behind it.

Someday I must give ZPAQ and Zopfli a try. Maybe you will too:
MPQ Compressor

[mumbling to myself] Uuh-huuh-uuuh, one million times... :xxd:
 
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Pyf, I've been using computers too since 1990's. But there's a difference between using something because you need to versus because you can.

Like, why should the average user have to care about it? It's like when I go to the store and buy food, I don't have to care about how the electrical cashier transfers numbers from my credit card when I buy food, nor do I have to care about how the lock on my door works when I open my door to my apartment.
 

pyf

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It only affected some people though and should not have existed as a problem in the first place...
Well, I was one of those people. And this serious issue lasted for *far* too long.

A standalone tool, allowing for mass-testing the integrity of w3x / w3m / w3n files right after a download, would be nice. Even a command line tool would do (for me, that is).

Providing a MD5 hash for downloads might be useful, too.

Pyf, I've been using computers too since 1990's. But there's a difference between using something because you need to versus because you can.
...or versus because you should. :wink:

Now, I realize we might have different kinds of experiences, with different kinds of computers, at different ages, all in different contexts. I understand you were born in 1991. Well in 1991, I was still a student using PCs at the university.

Like, why should the average user have to care about it [...]

Because it is never too late to be curious and stay informed? Of course, I agree there is no need to understand how something works internally, in order to use it. But hey, computers as a whole are so much fun...


As a general rule, archives allow to:
- group two or more files
- easily check files' integrity
- reduce files' size

Regarding WC3 spell files, size reduction by using ZIP archives hardly applies.
Meaning no significant space gain server/client side, no significant bandwidth gain, and no significantly faster transfer times.

Now, I pointed to @LeP's MPQ Compressor. Do you think such optimization techniques for deflate data streams can be useful in some way?
Maximize Compression with Zopfli
Improved Compression Ratios Using Zopfli | Dean Hume


Compression techniques are widely used to deliver content. They can mean time and money savings. Therefore, it is always a good idea to stay aware about them imho.
 
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