[Request]: Attractive red-haired sorceress

[MintJulep]

10/11 Update: The project is currently being undertaken by modeller jigrael.

10/5 Update: The bounty is raised to $30.

9/27 Update: Screenshots for the map in this post: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/829292-post15.html


NOTE: $30 through PayPal for whoever completes this satisfactorily.
- Post your screenshots here, and half will be paid. Then send/upload the file, and the other half will be paid after animations are checked.
- Please, contact me if you're interested but need more info about the bounty, the map, map progress, me...anything. There is TONS of info not posted here.


For a while now, I've been working on a very large RPG project that'll soon be released (it'll be impressive, I think). Just by the numbers, the scale is huge - there's over 20 dungeons, and 98% of the Map Size Epic terrain is fully utilized with the camera zoomed in and all characters scaled at .65 (and no wasted space like repeating areas that don't need to be fully explored, a problem in most other RPG's). Scripted bosses, 100's of items, dozens of talk-able NPC's, several unique systems and gameplay concepts, mostly custom spells...All that good stuff.



But basically, for this map, the title screen features this character:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4164/42iu8.jpg

And so what I'm looking for is a model good enough that there is instant recognition between the picture and the model in-game (the WC3 default sorceress doesn't come close).

The character is an extremely important NPC in the RPG, so unfortunately I have to be very picky about its model's looks. It can't look too similiar to Jaina (or I may have considered this), and it has to have a smooth face like some of the models on XGM (the full link for that model is here under HeroNouhime). And it has to be attractive...'

Oh, and importantly, the model shouldn't have elf ears (it does in the picture, but there's no elves on my map).

There's a lot of specifics, but I desperately need a quality model for this character. I'd be happy to try to compensate for help in any way I can (I'm a great terrainer and a decent spell-maker, so maybe we can "trade" work). Or if you just need to know you're contributing to a worthwhile project, just PM me for some details and I'll try to convince you about why I think this map is special. In any case, I'm really hoping there'll be some interest in this...

Well, to try to spur some interest into this project without having to reveal further information about my map, I'll offer a $10 bounty to the person who provides a skillfully made model that satisfies what I'm looking for. It can be paid through PayPal, half after seeing screenshots and the other half after checking animations...The modeler will still be fully credited and everything in the map as well, of course, and you can still show it off and distribute it to others at this site and such - I just really need this map to be finished soon.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Maybe something that you may use it for, screens and other map proofs.

 

[~Void~]

Isn't the current sorceress red-haired?

 

[Direfury]

Brunette or Brown-haired isn't red. Team 1 Troll Mohawks are red.

 

[MintJulep]

Maybe something that you may use it for, screens and other map proofs.

What are some "other map proofs"? I don't want to put out screenshots of anything other than in-game footage at this point. The model is being used in a critical computer-controlled hero in the map that will lead the players around.

Maybe that's not as much info as one would like, but I thought the offer of a $$ bounty would make up for it, since it guarantees that the work won't be wasted.

 

[Discipline]

Offering money is probably a turn off for most... if people feel inspired to make a request they do it for free and a bit of rep. Most modellers are already busy working on something or other, and I don't think too many people want to be the guy who jumped in and accepted money on a community site... especially for the sake of $10. That's the kind of money you tempt a 7 year old with to behave.

 

[Sabelion]

That screen is amazing but I noticed one of her eyes are green and the other blue...

 

[ShiroiSenji]

Well just needs diffrent head and great skin, the pictures looks hot ^^

 

[MintJulep]

Offering money is probably a turn off for most... if people feel inspired to make a request they do it for free and a bit of rep. Most modellers are already busy working on something or other, and I don't think too many people want to be the guy who jumped in and accepted money on a community site... especially for the sake of $10. That's the kind of money you tempt a 7 year old with to behave.

Understood. However, in my defense, it wasn't meant to be a "reward", so much as a sort of collateral, since it seems to me that most modellers are very concerned that their work isn't going to be used or taken seriously. The fact that I'm willing to actually pay for the work is intended to show how serious I am about getting my project done.

And I'll double the payment to $20.

 

[ShiroiSenji]

You dont have to raise payment, just get post count and get rep. it will get done

 

[redscores]

Not a bad deal, but listen, modelers make models for fun, and for seeing how other people get happy with them, if a modeler sees his own model in a map he gets proud, and they dont need payment (only modelers which i know which take payment are japanese modelers... but japanese/chinese were always too extreme!)

 

[MintJulep]

To try to curb some of the issues raised here, I'll try to give a few more initial bits of info about who I am and what the map may be like, without revealing -too- much:

My intention is to make the first really fun, and exciting, ORPG that I've ever played.
I don't want to generalize and say that all ORPGs are inferior to other gametypes (gameplay-wise), but personally I've played dozens of them (everything from The Black Road to the highest-rated FF ORPG / Neverwinter Nights and such on this site), and didn't really enjoy my experience in comparison to other maps out there.

It's probably not the mapmakers' faults, I think it's just difficult for an engine like WarCraft III to really produce an engaging ORPG-ish map. Even the most technically skilled ORPGs, like FPS-view Gothic, have the problem that it will never be as technically good as commercial RPGs like Baldur's Gate, especially because they must limit their storyline and character development because it's only one map. And gameplay wise there are a number of consistent problems I've had with all the RPGs out there:


1. Poor grind time/exploration ratio.
In almost every WarCraft RPG I've played, you have a little room to explore at the beginning, like a town or a base. As soon as you leave, you're attacked by monsters strong enough to deter you from really going any further without levelling up. And at that point, it would take like a few minutes of grinding for each little part of the map you get revealed - not enough for players like me. Compare this to what commercial RPGs like Oblivion do, where you get a huge, huge area to explore without fear of monsters, and THEN have areas blocked off by the grinding requirements? Gameplay wise, that should be superior as I'd imagine it'd feel much more like a real adventure through a real area.


2. Not enough discovery for people exploring.
This applies to just all but the best of the RPG maps I've played, but most ORPGs I find have little incentive to fully explore the entire map. The reason for this is that a lot of areas are huge and repeating, with the only "discovery" to be found being a higher-level creep. This isn't very satisfying, for the reason that the player could've easily leveled up on different monsters anyways. Notice that good commercial RPGs, in contrast, reward players for going out of their way to explore with hidden bosses, amazing items, hidden quests and secret dungeons and so on.


3. Not enough incentive to continue onwards.
After playing a WarCraft RPG after an hour of grinding, I think many players (except die-hard WarCraft RPG fans) start to wonder, "Why am I playing this?". I mean, grinding itself is not exactly the highest quality gameplay, and the only reward we see come from it is likely just more of the terrain. Some RPGs try to solve this problem with a storyline, but I feel that the WarCraft III engine is so unsupportive of RPGs that creating a truly engaging storyline is practically impossible for a non-campaign. What a WarCraft RPG would need to draw people in, is a constant expectation of something new and surprising, combined with higher-quality gameplay (less grinding).


4. Not enough strategical choices.
Look at any commercial RPG, even the mediocre ones, and you'll see at least some attempt to add strategy to their game and battle systems. Without proper strategy, you'll lose much more easily in those games. However, all most WarCraft RPGs require you to do is level up until you're strong enough to move on to the next area. You will always get the same spells, item decisions are never too difficult, and if there's a save/load system you don't even have to do anything because the higher-level player will do everything for you. There is hardly any real decision-making or player engagement involved in most WarCraft RPGs' gameplay.


5. Unrealistic "feel", of a world that's just waiting for you to interact with it.
Again, with commercial RPGs, there is a huge attempt to try to draw in players by providing a world that seems realistic, with hundreds of characters doing their own things, along with characters reacting to storyline events such as a big war or the world getting destroyed soon. It doesn't feel like you're the only living character in the entire world.

But in WarCraft III RPGs, it often does - the characters are just sitting around doing nothing (provided there's NPC characters in the first place), waiting for you to help them, and enemies are just waiting out there for you to kill them. Most WarCraft RPGs are static worlds, where nothing is really changing or happening. The one WarCraft RPG I've played that hasn't been static (The Black Road, where players had to defend Athens every few minutes from an attack), didn't seem to really utilize that element in a way that considerably improved excitement or realism.

If there was just a more dynamic world, a map where everything was constantly changing and moving around and with the enemies strategizing and appearing to be thinking, maybe it'd feel at least a little more realistic.


My Map
So what does my map plan to do, then? Well, I'm certainly very critical of other RPG maps, so my idea was to use all my observations to avoid all the problems above that were making many RPG maps boring, repetitive, and pointless to play for players like me. It's a very ambitious project, and I think I've almost succeeded - the map is nearing completion now (only nearing though, since I decided to post this topic before completion as I anticipated difficulties in obtaining this model). Currently, all of the problems listed above have been practically eliminated to a satifactory degree (by my standards), except for a minor complaint that grinding still exists to a point (practically unavoidable in a WarCraft III RPG of this type).

A few more specifics on project progress - The map is practically releasable and playable now, but I'm triggering all the movements and abilities for a couple of dozen bosses, which remains very time-consuming. Terraining, creep design, heroes, items, and so on are practically finished. Ideas are of course all thought out, but some basics like startup text + dialogues are still to be created (easy stuff though).

As for the model's use, it's serving under the best possible position any model can be in on a map - as the most important NPC, a computer controlled hero. If we were to just use the model as a player-controlled hero, many players wouldn't even see it because they'd often choose a different hero. However, the model will serve as a boss (scripted, like a lesser Impossible Bosses), a party member, a guide - everything, and it'll be noticed and remembered.

 

[FrIkY]

If I wasn't so bussy, I could make a skin for that :/

 

[MintJulep]

It's been over 48 hours, so I hope no one will mind if I bump this request.

 

[MintJulep]

I didn't want to have to resort to posting screenshots unless I had to, but it looks like that's the only remaining resource I have left to generate interest in this. My explanations didn't help, I suppose. I was really, -really- hoping to keep my map under the radar until a trailer was prepared, but...

I still don't want to reveal too much to the public yet, please keep that in mind when you judge my selection of screenshots. Also, unfortunately the in-game shots are scrunched up, but it's still enough for us to get the drift, hopefully.

Here goes:

A basic city...Sorry about the temporary lack of NPCs, I'm currently collecting models and writing all the diologue.

And what does the city look like in-game?

Every RPG has its creep-filled areas...

The corresponding in-game shot, to give a better sense of how big the areas are:

Stepping on the beacon leads you into a dungeon...

Of course, there are many other scenic areas and dungeons throughout the map.

There's actually over twenty unique dungeons! No wonder I had to break past the max map size with changes in character scaling and movement speed, just so that everything could fit.

In fact, look back to the first screenshot posted, and you might spot a dungeon entrance there too. Meanwhile, a couple more example areas:

But those of you who have made maps know terraining is just the easy part. The triggers are done too.

As I've said earlier in this topic though, just walking around leveling up is boring. Participating in wars and battles against enemy bosses and their armies should make things more exciting, as long as their outcome actually affects the game...

I cannot release this map without the requested model.

So please, someone take on my offer...I hope no one will be discouraged by the empty spaces and lack of units in a lot of these screenshots (the creeping/NPCs are the biggest part of the project left to do), but I assure you that it will all be fixed by the final release.

 

[Masiah]

I'm no modeler nor skinner, but allow me to say that your map looks very promising. As a personal opinion, you should work a little more on the terrain (at some points it looks too simple). I wish you luck and hope that some skinner or modeler comes around and gets a similar impresion to mine and helps you out.

 

[Ghost765]

ask ewnt at wc3campaigns for the Jean skin from ToB. its red haired, red clothed, and it doesnt look that bad. he might not give it to u though.

 

[MintJulep]

I'm no modeler nor skinner, but allow me to say that your map looks very promising. As a personal opinion, you should work a little more on the terrain (at some points it looks too simple). I wish you luck and hope that some skinner or modeler comes around and gets a similar impresion to mine and helps you out.

Thanks for the support, Masiah. I do plan on going through the entire map again and revamping/improving the terrain, after all the important stuff is finished (though the limited amount of terrain tiles and lack of walking space in some of the areas is going to make it tough for a few places to look right).

ask ewnt at wc3campaigns for the Jean skin from ToB. its red haired, red clothed, and it doesnt look that bad. he might not give it to u though.

Ghost - Thanks for the suggestion, I appreciate your help. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about modelling yet, so even with a skin I can't do much on my own. Also, the model I'm looking for must be an exact match to the photo in the first post (as in, instant recognition between the two by the average person), so even with red hair and clothes it seems unlikely any currently existing skin/model will do the job.

 

[Ezikielth]

Still need it, if you do Ill make it.

 

[MintJulep]

Ezikielth: Thank you! - Yes, the model is still needed very badly for the map, as far as I know no one has yet taken this on..If you need any more specific information on what's wanted or anything (I'm not sure how much is required in this process, not being a modeller myself), please let me know right away.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

Heres my attempt at it kinda felt inspired... but if ezikieths better goahead use his. No cash/credits necesary. based off the mdl u linked to, which is pretty much jana . Hope you get ur map done, also send me a pm if/when you do with a link? it looks fun...

Anything else you need done to the model, try and be specific, and ill do what i can...
(send PM, since i prolly wont find this thread again)


Ill attach file to this when i get permission from the origional author.
(dont forget to credit him!)

EDIT: Got permission, heres a linkhttp://www.badongo.com/file/11539967

 

[MintJulep]

Heh, thanks for your help, Bloody_Turds - I'll definitely remember to send you the link to the map when it's finished. The hairstyle + facial differences between the model and the base image, and the model's similarity to Jaina, both give me a lot of concern about using it in my map, but I'll certainly hang onto it in case nothing else pans out.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

I can add a poneytail, and remoove the makeup it would just require a new skin, ill make the new one when i get the time

EDIT: the first one dosnt require a skin, but the second one does, only diff is less makeup on second, and hair color is diff

 

[MintJulep]

Thanks again for your help, Bloody - I wish I could give out rep, but I haven't been very active in this community; although I'll post an image of your work in the hopes that someone lurking this topic will +rep Bloody for his efforts instead.

sorcy2.mdx

Um, I'm not sure it's quite what I'm looking for yet, though. The model certainly resembles the base image closely, but the most important part for me (the face) still looks quite different to me. But I feel too uncomfortable criticizing the work of anyone who's trying to help me (that's actually a reason why I offered the $$ bounty, to give me more leeway to be picky). After all, the character will be zoomed-in on during cutscenes, like she is in the screenshots, plus the base image is in the map loading screen, so every minute difference will be very noticable!

Well, probably you're curious anyways to what differences I'm talking about, so I'd point out that even with the ponytail the hairstyles are still a lot different - the default sorceress model's is unfortunately laid down, while in the base image it's pulled back. The default sorceress model also has a huge tiara, which isn't in the base image...And, the face of the sorceress in the base image is very smooth (I don't know, but maybe that's really hard to replicate in WarCraft III?).

 

[Bloody_Turds]

smoothness yes its pretty hard, without massive pollys.. but i can rremove tiara.. anything else?
umm laid down hair, will flow through the back piece of the cape in wc3...

 

[MintJulep]

I'd say the most important part of the model I'm looking for, is near-identicality to this specific part of the picture:

The string she's wearing isn't important, but for recognizability the hairstyle has to be pulled back into the ponytail as in the picture. I suppose the actual length of the ponytail isn't that important either, but for the model you posted, Bloody, I thought the ponytail looked a little strange in actual gameplay (not sure if that was because of its size, or the hair not being pulled back)...from some angles the character could potentially look like a japanese male samurai, I thought(since they have pretty similiar hairstyles as well and the face wasn't too clearly visible from a top-down angle).

A few other quick things specific to your work, Bloody - the sorceress's eyes are white instead of green, the model doesn't seem to be clothed underneath the stomach (although that was a problem with the original author's work, heh), and the hand holding the staff looks very unfeminine-like (I guess it would be hard converting Jaina's glove into a decent hand, so if we're not going for the perfect match maybe the easiest solution would be to just keep the glove).

 

[Bloody_Turds]

The head band i can do, and maybe a hair piece up front, about the hair, im not exactly sure what i can do with it.. the hand isnt to hard i think i just need to rotate the uv a bit..
pony tail length i can increase a bit, but it isnt gonna look all that strandy...
your pic is practically nude anyways, if you look , but i can add some more cloths... maybe
green eyes i can try...

Btw the string is Actually EXTREEMLY helpful in quickly identafying her as the chick on the loading screen...., and it isnt all that hard btw anything particuarly wrong with the outfit, besides slutty , like do you want the white parts red, so itl match the pic betta?, although that might dull it out a bit also...

 

[MintJulep]

Sorry for ignoring this topic a bit, I've been hard at work. But it's been a week and Ezikielth hasn't responded to me or visited this site (it seems), so I'm guessing some real-life issues have taken his attention away. To try to spur some attention to this project again I'll raise the $$ offer for an almost-perfect model to $30.

Bloody: Well, let's see how it turns out. Other than the lack of coverage, I didn't really notice anything about the clothes of your model...I think it'd be difficult to match the look of the base image with the default sorceress hairstyle, though.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

kk , well if no one decides to do the request.. ill add the band on the face, and maybe some hair covering part of the face to help it look alike.. give me a whisp sometime

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Not a bad deal, but listen, modelers make models for fun, and for seeing how other people get happy with them, if a modeler sees his own model in a map he gets proud, and they dont need payment (only modelers which i know which take payment are japanese modelers... but japanese/chinese were always too extreme!)

Dude....... Modeling........ For fun...... and now for money lol, i would do it but i can't model =/