Pudge Wars v2.03d

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PUDGE WARS ADVANCED

Project Status
I am no longer working on Pudge Wars anymore (since v2.03c). Any future updates will be done solely for the purpose of bug fixes. Therefore I have released an unoptimized version of Pudge Wars for people to learn, for people to edit, and for anyone wishing to continue development for this fun map. You may download the unoptimized version here.
Download
Current version: v2.03d
Date released: 8 July 2012
Forum link: http://pudgewars.forumotion.com/

A list of older versions of Pudge Wars (including some of Tossrocks) can be viewed here.



Project Details
  • This map was based off the original Pudge Wars.
    Tossrock said:
    No, I created Pudge Wars Advanced because I was playing the original (Pudge Wars, which was teams of 3 with the basic hook spell and a "lay mine" spell.) and thought to myself "This is a fun game but could be way better." And so I did. I know about pretty much all the current bugs but I'm pretty busy with college and stuff, and also terribly lazy. Maybe I'll put a new version out in time for Winter break.
    Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/589475-warcraft-iii-the-frozen-throne/46354776
  • Pudge Wars Advanced was created by Tossrock, and taken over by Siraraz in 2010. Decline in development (before new developer came) was due to the following reasons:
    • Software used to develop map ceased to function properly;
    • Lack of enough free time. Other priorities and commitments;
    • Starcraft II's release was near; development would be futile and a waste of effort and time.
  • Development is primarily done by Siraraz. Credits however are due to other users as their resources have been used.
Map Details
Pudge Wars Advanced (or Pudge Wars for short) is a mini-game map where two teams of up to six players aim to achieve victory by scoring a certain amount of enemy kills or winning a certain amount of rounds first. The arena is set in a 32x32 map (even less actually), divided by a river running vertically in the middle of the map: creating two sides, West and East.

MapLayout.jpg

The map is based on the Butcher character from DotA, and his ability: Meat Hook. The map has heavily expanded on the simple Meat Hook ability and is the core of the map. The ability Meat Hook is a simple concept: Pudge throws his bloody Meat Hook towards the targeted location. Any units hit by the hook will be damaged and reeled back to Pudge. Once reeled back, you can kill the target by attacking him or hooking him again. However, one should expect the enemy to have the same goal in mind; creating a chaotic festival of bloody butchery as the surrounding quickly becomes filled with meat hooks.

Features
  • Fully triggered abilities
  • Artificial intelligence
  • Ingame switch system, the same as DotA's
  • 10 different items, many of which are based off DotA heroes
  • Upgradable items - even with a full inventory
  • Death notification messages that inform of the killing style
  • A random hat party
  • ... and more!
Media
Screenshots:
Yet to come. Go check out the map instead :)

Videos:
Credits
RESOURCES
CODE
‘Anitarf’ for ‘SpellEvent’
‘BBQ’ for ‘PeriodicLoop’
‘Jesus4Lyf’ for ‘Hash, ‘DummyCaster’, Damage’
‘kingkingyyk3’ for coding assistance
‘kenny’ for extracts of code I used from his ‘Pudge Wars Meat Hook Revisited’ resource
‘grim001’ for ‘GetProc’
‘Magtheridon96’ for ‘RegisterPlayerUnitEvent’
‘nestharus’ for ‘Event’
‘Rising_Dusk’ for ‘GroupUtils’
‘Strilance’ for ‘HostBot Command Library’
‘Tirlititi’ for ‘ClearItems’
‘Vexorian’ for ‘Table’, ‘SimError’, ‘TimerUtils’, ‘FauxHandleVars’

ART
‘xXMephistoXx’ for the ‘Magic Hat’ model (used for hat party command)
‘kunkka’ for the loading screen

TESTERS
‘BAkil’, ‘TrevorTheHoly’, ‘Orgetorox’, ‘Fire525108’, ‘aznshocktrooper’

SPECIAL THANKS
‘kingkingyyk3’for developing the AI
‘Mr_Bean’ for continued support and managing the forums
‘Tossrock’ for developing this amazing map
Changelog
v2.03

Version D (08/07/2012):
Gameplay
*Strength gained per level for Pudge reverted back to 5.0 (+125 HP/level)

Bug Fixes
*Fixed the level 5 Rupture percent to be actually 30% instead of 40% (oops)
*Fixed level 5 Rupture from not being applied when the target Blinks away
*Fixed a bug in which Split would always end up as a deny


Version C (02/07/2012):
Gameplay
*Added a new powerup: Spectre’s Dagger
Allows you to Meat Hook through allies, land mines and barricades for 30 seconds
*Added a new powerup: Berserker’s Blood
Same concept as the passive on Sacred Warrior (Huskar) from DotA. For every 5% health missing, Pudge gains 5% damage and speed. The first bonus starts at full health. This buff lasts for 30 seconds.

Pudge:
*HP per strength point reduced from 50 to 25
*Strength per level reduced from 5.0 to 2.5
*Increase Strength cannot be bought if you have more than 125 already

Split (Azwraith’s Lance):
*Pudge now has the same life when exiting Split formation
*Split visual slightly modified; the real Pudge is transparent and tinted black

Techies’ Explosive Barrel:
*Improved mine damage from (300, 350, 400, 450, 500) to (400, 462.5, 525, 587.5, 650)
*Improved thrown mines’ damage from (500, 575, 650, 725, 800) to (625, 737.5, 850, 912.5, 1025)

Blink (Grapple Hook):
*Blink cast range reduced from 900 to 650
*Blink now escapes hooks

*Initial position now randomized
*Improved fountain regeneration rate from 7.5hp per second to 1% (of max HP) per second
*Ward cast range reduced from 500 to 200
*Ward charges from 3 to 2

Visuals

*Floating text is no longer shown if you can’t see the unit
*Changed flame model so it is easier to attack manually
*Changed hotkeys of Upgrades shop
*Command –unstuck now moves camera instantly

Other

*Added new game mode: timed mode (-tmxxx)
Timed mode will set the game to last xxx minutes. The team that has the most kills at the end of this time will be the winners. Example usage: -tm030nt. This will make a 30 minute game with revive time of 5 seconds. In this way, a draw can occur.
*Added a team-switch mechanism (like DotA’s)
Usage: -switch x, this will initiate a switch request with a player on the other team. The value of x can be from 1 to 5 (even unused player slots). All players except one must then accept this request by typing –ok.
*HostBot command now registered in a different style. Instead of “k1n” for –km100nt, the style is now: k1 for –km10, n25 for –km250nt, etc. The first string is ‘k’ or ‘n’. HCL supports only kills mode for now. The number after it will be the kills required x10.
*Added command –camh to adjust camera distance
*Added more hints
*Changelog removed from quest menu due to space limitation

Bug Fixes

*Fixed a bug in which a powerup could be repeated twice
*Fixed a bug with Rupture in which it would not end when you Doppelwalked a Level 5 Strygwyr Claws Meat Hook


Version B (03/06/2012):

*Fixed lag caused when items would be dropped.
*Leaver items and gold now given to team again.


Version A (30/05/2012):

Gameplay

Pudge
*Reduced base movespeed from 350 to 325

Meat Hook
*Reduced damage upgrade amount from 35 to 20
*Reduced radius upgrade amount from 15 to 10
*Reduced speed upgrade amount from 75 to 50

Items

*Added a new consumable item: Dust of Apperance (25g)
Effect: Reveals invisible units within 500 radius area of effect. Lasts 5 seconds. Contains 2 charges.
*Changed the item models of most items to a miniture version of the hero they represent

Strygwyr’s Claws:
*Reduced base drag % by 5% (10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%)
*Level 5 bonus Rupture reduced from 40% to 30%
*Level 5 bonus Rupture duration reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
*Level 5 bonus Rupture no longer deals damage on Blink (distance must be more than 250 range)

Azwraith’s Lance:
*Illusions cannot spawn if hook causes death

Tiny’s Arm:
*Reduced cast range increment from 500 to 300 (1000/1300/1600/1900/2200 range)
*Cast range changed to infinite, but actual effect distance will remain the actual maximum range

Techies’ Explosive Barrel:
*Reduced mine damage from (500, 575, 650, 725, 800) to (300, 350, 400, 450, 500)
*Reduced thrown mines' damage from (750, 900, 1050, 1100, 1250) to (500, 575, 650, 725, 800)
*Reduced area of effect (applies to both ground and thrown): Full damage:
Reduced by 50. From (200, 225, 250, 275, 300) to (150, 175, 200, 225, 250)
Half damage: Reduced by 100. From (400, 425, 450, 475, 500) to (300, 325, 350, 375, 400)

Barathrum’s Lantern:
*Power Bash no longer affects allies

Lycan’s Paws (Please send feedback in regards to this item):
*Movespeed bonus reduced from 50/75/100/125/150 to 40/55/70/85/100
*Movespeed increase % removed from Level 5. Attack % increase from 27% to 40%

Reveal:
*Reveal now costs a fixed 10g
*Reveal now has a 15s cooldown

Powerups

*Powerups now spawn as ally instead of enemy
*Changed powerup spawn algorithm: the powerup chosen is still random but cannot be repeated until all other powerups have been spawned

Flame:
*Flame unit vision reduced from 500 to 200 (same as v1.24)

Thunder:
*Thunder nova now created when activated
*Added new lightning visual effect for meat hook. If flame is active with thunder, the hook will be a red lightning (currently not possible unless under testing conditions)

Other

*Suiciding not caused by Techies' Ultimate or Dynamite rune now causes your team to lose one point
*Max level heroes no longer drain xp
*Invulnerability when reviving lasts only 2.5 seconds. Hook-safety still remains 5 seconds.
*Hints are now displayed every 45 seconds for newer players. Use -togglehints/-toghints to turn on/off. Use -showhint to display a random hint.
*Revive time for non-nt mode changed from 3(level) + 5 to (level) + 5
*Observers/Referees can now see damage tags and other messages
*Leaver gold and items are no longer distributed (maybe this will fix the lag?)
*Added HCL support for bots. Currently only supports the following modes:
'k1n' = -km100nt
'k1' = -km100
Feedback on this area is appreciated.

Bugs

*Leaver heroes are now removed
*Dynamite now explodes when the previous holder was an illusion who has dissapeared
*Fixed a bug in where giving an item which became an upgraded item would still allow you to cast the ability

Known bugs:
*When a player leaves lag is created


v2.02

Alpha 2 (29/01/2012):

KNOWN BUGS/ERRORS
*AI has few bugs with item purchasing
*Barricades may not properly rotate if multiple are ordered to by another player under shared control
*Various bugs with ‘whosyourdaddy’ cheat in offline play
*Few errors with messages in testing mode
*Leavers hero is not removed from game

GAMEPLAY
*Toss projectile pickup priority changed:
1. Allied mines
2. Enemy heroes
3. Allied wards
4. Allied heroes
5. Enemy mines
6. Enemy wards
*Pudge is now invulnerable for 5 seconds after reviving
*Increased the Hyperspeed slow percentage from 50% to 75%
*Increased Grapple Hook’s Blink range from 400 to 900 (now allows blinking to other side)
*Few changes on Earthshaker’s Totem:
Barricades:
*Removed the armor from barricades(armor wasn’t used in Pudge Wars anyways)
*Added 40% resistance to all damage types to barricades
*Added a 90-second duration to barricades
Max level ability (Fissure):
*Fissure barricades are now created in an exact straight line (compared to previously jagged)
*Fissure-made barricades are now invulnerable (damage text still shows though)
*Added another grapple lightpost to each side
*Changed the position of existing lightposts to let the new one fit in better
*Land Mines can now damage wards and fissures
*Land Mines can now damage other land mines within a 75 range radius.
*Increased the radius of Blade Barrier from 175 to 200 (same as pre-v2)
*Increased the flame damage interval from 0.25 sto 0.50s (same damage dealt, just less frequent)
*Decreased
the stun duration on Level 5 Toss from proportional to the distance to
an approximately fixed 0.75s (this 0.75s is counted from when the tossed
unit stops motion)

VISUALS
*Removed the yellow flashy cooldown model
*Reduced the number of blade units in blade barrier by half
*Headshot kill message now shows who owns the first hook
*Fixed Lycan’s Paws purchase tooltip
*Removed the [Level 1] suffix from the Reveal tooltip
*Changed Split ‘s death animation
*Changed the Hyperspeed trail duration from 1.0928 to 1.08 (barely noticeable)
*Removed the smooth transition of terrain fog when hyperspeed is active
*Pudge explosions (when Pudge explodes into many parts) now face the same direction before exploding
*Added a death animation for Land Mines
*Added a death animation for Barricades
*Added a spawn animation for Barricades made with Fissure
*Added death information on the killing spree quest information log
*Improved Upgrade Point tooltip in the screen interface
*Changed the hero attribute tooltips

MISC
*Added a 5-second delay before the match starts after the mode is selected
*Added a sound for when the game starts
*Added map description
*Modified item purchase hotkeys. Item hotkey corresponds to their position in the command card.
*More script optimizing
*Blade Barrier can now be removed using the -r/-reset command.
*Game no longer ends in 60 seconds after a team wins

BUGS/FIXES
*Removed the –observer command from the Commands quest log
*Fixed the command -stat from not working
*The
reveal gold cost now reduces exactly 7 minutes after the game mode is
selected rather than 7 minutes after the game is loaded
*Fixed barricades from not rotating when multiple are selected (see known bugs)
*Removed the fountain powerup from the powerup spawn pool
*Fixed Toss from picking dead land mines as a projectile
*Fixed testing commands from being active every game
*Fixed Dynamite/Techies’ Detonate from only damaging one unit.
*Fixed a bug in which an observer/referee player leaving would cause the scoreboard to display “left” everywhere on it.
*Fixed a bug with -resethook command detection of current hooks
*Fixed a bug with hyperspeed leaving vision behind after it had ended

AI
AI
redesigned by kingkingyyk3. The AI now has a randomized hook upgrade
pattern as well as a randomized item purchasing pattern. The AI is now
able to use active abilities and has improved reactions to specific
scenarios.


Alpha 1 (29/01/2012):

GAMEPLAY
*New powerup: Some Fountain Manipulator powerup [NOT COMPLETED].
*Reworked Split.

Stat Changes
*Reveal:
  • Duration: 30 -> 35
  • AoE: 800 -> 900
  • Cost: 5 -> 50 (decreases by 5 gold every 7 mins until price is 5 gold)
*Illusion damage taken increased from 100% -> 200%
*Changed max. players from 12 -> 10 (allows observers in lobby, removed in-game observer commands)
*Change priority of projectile pickup for Toss, as follows:
  1. Allied Land Mines
  2. Allied Wards
  3. Enemy Heroes
  4. Allied Heroes
  5. Enemy Land Mines
  6. Enemy Wards
*Limited amount of Doppelwalk illusions to one. When Doppelwalk fires; any existing illusion will be destroyed.
*Grapple Hook radius capped to 250.

MISC
*Buying items with full inventory
*Item repickup limit removed.
*Added command: -clear. This command clears the screen of any text messages.
*Changed “dy” to “-dd”
*Changed “ff” to “-ff”
*Added “-r” for “-reset” command

VISUALS
*Renamed Phantom’s Lance to Azwraith’s Lance
*Changed Phantom’s Lance (Azwraith’s Lance) tooltip
*Removed the “Advanced” from the map name
*Changed
the player board (-sb board) to show method of killing for each
individual method rather then a category. Instead of “powerup, attack,
headshot, hook, item”, it is now “blades, fire, lightning, dynamite,
etc.”. Methods of killing you haven’t used are coloured, grey, whilst
those you have are coloured green.
*Added disclaimer for Grappling
Hook stating that it is not an offensive ability. It can only grapple
structures, not hook units.
*Barricade and Grappling Hook command
card position fixed so they don’t move around. Grapple Hook occupies (1,
2) and Lay Barricade occupies (2, 2).
*The Choose Upgrades window
will automatically close after a player upgrades a stat if their skill
points (or lumber) is below the minimum value required for an upgrade. For example:
you have 5 Skill Points, all upgrades cost 3 Skill Points. You decide
to upgrade a random stat, you are left with 2 Skill Points. Seeing as
you are unable to upgrade anymore, the window will automatically close.
*Quest log detailing the amount of kills for each spree. Killing Spree - 3, and so forth.
*Dynamite: the floating text now follows the holding unit’s height.
*Dynamite: the floating text no longer jumps from 20 height to 150 when activated
*Toss: added a targeting image to show the collision-contact radius.
*Toss: land mines now face the proper direction when they are thrown with Toss.
*Pudge shadow centre changed from 60,60 to 75,75
*Rescaled the Grapple Hook model to a more accurate size.

AI
*Changed the rate at which AI purchased items: 0.03125 -> 1.00
*Changed the rate at which AI predicted unit movement: 0.03125 -> 0.25
*Rescaled AI reaction time. Easy: 0.6s. Normal: 0.45s. Insane: 0.3s

BUG FIXES
*Fixed hyperspeed from not providing speed boost to revived players who died with hyperspeed
*Fixed the speed of objects in hyperspeed when Tossed
*Fixed illusions from being able to damage anything.
*Fixed a bug where Toss wouldn’t work.
*Fixed a bug in which powerups would not follow the proper trajectory when Tossed.
*Users may no longer purchase Tome of Power at Level 25. Gold is refunded if player attempts to purchase.
Keywords:
Pudge Wars Advanced, Pudge Wars, Tossrock, Siraraz, Meat Hook, Pudge, Hook
Contents

Pudge Wars v2.03d (Map)

Reviews
23:49, 15th Sep 2010 Cweener: Approved Post.
Level 21
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
1,554
Recorded a small Vid with the doublethrow and the hookbug:

The next update comes when it comes.
Just saying. I like this map very much and an update would be appreciated, I'm waiting for it.

I'll consider this.
We discussed toss-priority before, and you made a fine list.
You really should implement that.

I'm trying to find why the Meat Hook just suddenly breaks, which causes the hooked unit to go to the bottom left corner. Fixing this would make adding the command unnecessary.
Ofc it would. But until then you could just add it. Happened to me somewhere late in the game and if the player doesnt have barrel lvl 5, the game is over.

It is not a bug. Being able to use Toss on powerups is intended.
Why? Their position doesnt change anyways, only the height.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
i'm saying that
1. If you toss the powerup with tiny lvl 5, it gets damage when hitting the ground and you obtain it.
2. If you toss any player onto the item with lvl 5 he damages the ground -> the powerup and it gets yours.

If this is intended, okay. But I would make the powerup only being obtainable by hooking or melee attacking.

Are you saying you can both Toss each other at the same time?
Look at the youtube video.
And btw, if you talk on skype or something similar this is actually pretty easy to pull of and use.
And I'm not saying its bad! I kinda like it tbh and maybe its even intended.

I am guessing "it" refers to Grapple Hook?
Yes. New players mostly buy it and try to use it like a meathook.
Thats why I suggested some red text - something to tell them its not for damaging enemys.

Hope you don't have to read between the lines this time, the other post was written in a hurry between 2 games.
 
Level 15
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
889
Frotty
Just saying. I like this map very much and an update would be appreciated, I'm waiting for it.

I plan to have one released within the next month or two :)

Ofc it would. But until then you could just add it. Happened to me somewhere late in the game and if the player doesnt have barrel lvl 5, the game is over.

Yeah, true I guess. I'll add it in because I'm confident that I'll fail to find the cause and it'll still be evident in the next version :(

Why? Their position doesnt change anyways, only the height.

So you can get it's powerup effect.

i'm saying that
1. If you toss the powerup with tiny lvl 5, it gets damage when hitting the ground and you obtain it.
2. If you toss any player onto the item with lvl 5 he damages the ground -> the powerup and it gets yours.

If this is intended, okay. But I would make the powerup only being obtainable by hooking or melee attacking.

Yeah, it's intended. I liked that you could use Toss to throw a land mine or something to get a powerup that is just about to disappear.

Look at the youtube video.
And btw, if you talk on skype or something similar this is actually pretty easy to pull of and use.
And I'm not saying its bad! I kinda like it tbh and maybe its even intended.

That's pretty cool! Yeah, it's not really a bug at all. I'll leave it like that because it isn't problematic... I think.

Yes. New players mostly buy it and try to use it like a meathook.
Thats why I suggested some red text - something to tell them its not for damaging enemys.

Alright, will do.

Hope you don't have to read between the lines this time, the other post was written in a hurry between 2 games.

Thank-you. I appreciate a response that's easy to understand.​

BmW22
I've attached the model to this post. The path for importing it in the Import Manager is: UI\Feedback\Cooldown\UI-Cooldown-Indicator.mdx
 

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Level 15
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Oh, and just to keep everyone updated, here are some of the aims for the next version:

GAMEPLAY

• Buying items with a full inventory.
• Change priority of projectile for Toss.
• Toss priority system:
1. Allied Land Mines
2. Allied Wards
3. Enemy Heroes
4. Allied Heroes
5. Enemy Land Mines
6. Enemy Wards

• [COMPLETED] Limiting amount of Doppelwalk illusions to one. When Doppelwalk fires, any existing illusion will be destroyed.

VISUALS

• Grapple Hook model scale. The current Grapple Hook (and Meat Hook actually) scale isn’t very accurate in representing the radius.
• Add disclaimer for Grappling Hook stating that it is not an offensive ability. It can only grapple structures, not hook units.
• [COMPLETED] Toss now has a targeting image to show the collision-contact radius.
• [COMPLETED] The Choose Upgrades window will automatically close after a player upgrades a stat if their skill points (or lumber) is below the minimum value required for an upgrade. For example: you have 5 Skill Points, all upgrades cost 3 Skill Points. You decide to upgrade a random stat, you are left with 2 Skill Points. Seeing as you are unable to upgrade anymore, the window will automatically close.
• [COMPLETED] Quest log detailing the amount of kills for each spree. Killing Spree - 3, and so forth.

FIXES

• Meat Hook bugs.
• [COMPLETED] Users may no longer purchase Tome of Power at Level 25. Gold is refunded if player attempts to purchase.
 
Level 21
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
1,554
Good changes, get some done asap (1-2 months?..cmon)

Btw another thing:
I only play 2v2 and max 3v3 because above 3v3 everything is just a mess, especially after early game.
Hooks and mines coming everywhere, you can't land 1 headshot _willed_, if you land one is just by accident because 5 hooks are flying all over the place.
Maybe it's nice? to have the possibility for 6on6, but who would play that?
6on6 would require a different arena / game mode to work properly.

Oh and mode choosing:
If you just enter -km50 e.g. the respawntime increases with lvl or time, but if you do the same via the dialogs, it stays at 5 seconds.
Is that in the last options of the dialogs and/or what is the command to do that?
 
Level 15
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
889
Good changes, get some done asap (1-2 months?..cmon)

I'm working on it :3 hopefully soon.

I only play 2v2 and max 3v3 because above 3v3 everything is just a mess, especially after early game.
Hooks and mines coming everywhere, you can't land 1 headshot _willed_, if you land one is just by accident because 5 hooks are flying all over the place.
Maybe it's nice? to have the possibility for 6on6, but who would play that?
6on6 would require a different arena / game mode to work properly.

I think I may just make the game 5v5 so there can be two observer slots.

If you just enter -km50 e.g. the respawntime increases with lvl or time, but if you do the same via the dialogs, it stays at 5 seconds.
Is that in the last options of the dialogs and/or what is the command to do that?

No Timer (which is actually 5 sec respawn time) is on by default in the dialog system, don't you see the (On) suffix of the button? I plan to remove the dialog system anyways.
 
Level 21
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Messages
1,554
Yep, never noticed it.
commands are fine if there is a good explanation.
e.g. I don't know how to activate nt and bm both together without trying.

Another thing I noticed was that toss didnt work some times, in 1 game in particular it didnt work half the time, mostly when wanting to toss an enemy.
I don't know if there is no animation when tossing an invisible enemy ward, but I don't think many ppl use wards anyway.
Also in that game some single-hooks were headshots...was kinda weird.

Another thing is that you seem to use too many timers/ not to recycle the properly, TU showed the warning msg.
And it was only a 2on2 game!
How about using this: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/jass-resources-412/snippet-constant-timer-loop-32-a-201381/

Small thing: When a pudge dies by being tossed with tiny lvl 5, the killmsg states " [name] dropped something heavy..".
Doesn't fit too well, does it?
The dropping thing would only fit if you toss a pudge onto another pudge and the one not being tossed dies. (not that important issue ;D)
 

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Level 15
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889
UPDATED!

Yes: I am aware that single player commands are enabled every game, blah blah, most of the simple stuff I know, but feel free to post about it :D

Another thing I noticed was that toss didnt work some times, in 1 game in particular it didnt work half the time, mostly when wanting to toss an enemy.
I don't know if there is no animation when tossing an invisible enemy ward, but I don't think many ppl use wards anyway.

o.o Hopefully whatever it was got fixed.

Another thing is that you seem to use too many timers/ not to recycle the properly, TU showed the warning msg.
And it was only a 2on2 game!
How about using this: [Snippet] Constant Timer Loop 32

Nah, I can't stand nestharus' interface with his scripts. Those messages should only show when the map is saved in debug mode, are you sure you were playing v2.01h? I know that v2.01g was saved and released whilst saved on debug mode.

Small thing: When a pudge dies by being tossed with tiny lvl 5, the killmsg states " [name] dropped something heavy..".
Doesn't fit too well, does it?
The dropping thing would only fit if you toss a pudge onto another pudge and the one not being tossed dies. (not that important issue ;D)

Added to my to-do-list :)
 
Level 21
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
1,554
Sweet. Gonna test it hard this evening.

@Screen
And yes, you can read it at the top right corner, its 2.01h.
Also, if this message displays you should check how many timers you use/if you recycle them correctly.
The standard quantity is 256 - don't know if you changed it - without any leaks I wouldn't know anything at pudgewars that would require that many timers at the same time.

Also Toss really didn't work - I have several replays where I am directly nearby a mine/enemy and nothing gets tossed(2.01h), I will post as soon as it happens in 2.02 (if it didn't get fixed)

Nice changes overall tho, good thing you implemented most of my suggestions :)

Only 1 thing, did you include some workaround/command to continue the game when the retrieving hook/corner bug occurs?
Like a command that checks if you are outside of the playable area and then denies you.

Keep those updates coming and I'll rate 5/5 some day ;D
 
Level 15
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
889
@Screen
And yes, you can read it at the top right corner, its 2.01h.
Also, if this message displays you should check how many timers you use/if you recycle them correctly.
The standard quantity is 256 - don't know if you changed it - without any leaks I wouldn't know anything at pudgewars that would require that many timers at the same time.

OOOOOOOOO. Wow. Haha. The message wasn't debug-only mode, interesting. @@ I've set the quantity to preload to 64, I don't think I'd need that many timers either. I've been using T32 for most stuff, although I've changed to PeriodicLoop (BBQ's) in this version. I've also began to use a stack loop rather than multiple timers as well.

Also Toss really didn't work - I have several replays where I am directly nearby a mine/enemy and nothing gets tossed(2.01h), I will post as soon as it happens in 2.02 (if it didn't get fixed)

Hope it doesn't happen :3

Nice changes overall tho, good thing you implemented most of my suggestions :)

Thankyou :) I'm glad it has pleased you.

Only 1 thing, did you include some workaround/command to continue the game when the retrieving hook/corner bug occurs?
Like a command that checks if you are outside of the playable area and then denies you.

I haven't for now, but if it does come up again, I'll definitely have to.

Keep those updates coming and I'll rate 5/5 some day ;D

I can only try :p
 
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Level 25
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,086
Cannot agree with the map's concepts.

Suicide is practically without punishment. You can just pull the detonation item and insta-kill enemies within a huge range or none. Either way, blowing up yourself is close to only being beneficial. Same with denying from 90% life. Level 5 keg is especially ridiculous.

The items. Standard walls have no expiration time, lvl5 ability no display. They have tons of health against normal hook and you can spam them all over the place. They mess up the whole battlefield and deflection looks bad. You can even rotate them remotely and therefore arbitrarily direct incoming hooks.

Similar to walls, mines can be set up and spammed. This turns it into a campy game where you discourage the standard hook as you can easily kill yourself pulling mines, plus you already give away your location.

Tiny Arm's stun becomes very long. This is another factor why the mid-end game is rather crippled. Balance gets quickly out of hand by overpowered stuff. You would normally think that such a game would get more acrobatic later on but because of exaggerated hook speed, size, damage, campy contents, hard disables, ... it can easily turn into the opposite and deny the basic micro-management.

What's with the lances's Doppelwalk ability? It passively creates an illusion when you get hooked/attacked. So you again do not have to do anything in order to bring the enemy into disadvantage. It even comes with a low percentual chance --> unreliable.

Grappling hook targets lack, few possibilities. At least have some further away from the center. Map does not offer much to move oneself anyway. How do you dodge a thrown mine?

Only 4 purchasable charged (temporarily limited) items? And they only serve healing and revelation.

Terrain does not seem too good. River is thin, shop and revival locs are always being camped. Would advise to give at least some free information of the enemies' position like pinging them now and then.

I play the map from time to time for fun because I like sports. But everything beyond early game gets ugly here.
 
Level 15
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Messages
889
I find that I agree with most of the comments you have made (this is saying something about my developer skills >.>).

”WaterKnight” said:
The items. Standard walls have no expiration time, lvl5 ability no display. They have tons of health against normal hook and you can spam them all over the place. They mess up the whole battlefield and deflection looks bad. You can even rotate them remotely and therefore arbitrarily direct incoming hooks.

I agree. I’ve been trying to make the bouncing look better, but it’s hard because high speed hooks completely whoosh past the barricade (doesn’t collide properly).

”WaterKnight” said:
Tiny Arm's stun becomes very long. This is another factor why the mid-end game is rather crippled. Balance gets quickly out of hand by overpowered stuff. You would normally think that such a game would get more acrobatic later on but because of exaggerated hook speed, size, damage, campy contents, hard disables, ... it can easily turn into the opposite and deny the basic micro-management.

Agreed.

”WaterKnight” said:
What's with the lances's Doppelwalk ability? It passively creates an illusion when you get hooked/attacked. So you again do not have to do anything in order to bring the enemy into disadvantage. It even comes with a low percentual chance --> unreliable.

The Lance was intended to be a more defensive item.

”WaterKnight” said:
Grappling hook targets lack, few possibilities. At least have some further away from the center.

I’ve now added another lightpost to each side and shifted the existing ones. So there is now one at the top, one at the middle, and one at the bottom.

”WaterKnight” said:
Map does not offer much to move oneself anyway. How do you dodge a thrown mine?

Indeed it doesn’t. You can’t actually dodge a thrown mine easily. If hyperspeed were to suddenly become active, sure it might be possible. You could even use grapple’s blink (level 5), but even then, it’s short ranged and probably won’t get you out of the impact area. I plan to increase Blink’s distance to allow teleporting to the other side though.

”WaterKnight” said:
Only 4 purchasable charged (temporarily limited) items? And they only serve healing and revelation.

Ideas are welcome.

”WaterKnight” said:
Terrain does not seem too good. River is thin, shop and revival locs are always being camped. Would advise to give at least some free information of the enemies' position like pinging them now and then.

If the river was any wider, then it’d leave little room for actual movement. Revival locations are random, so I can’t see how you can camp them. Although I guess just being present on the enemy side is camping their revival location. You can use Wards and Reveal to find out the enemy positions.

Sorry for the very late reply, and thanks for the comments.
 
Level 25
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The Lance was intended to be a more defensive item.

Defensive != passive. And yes, even passive defensive would be okay, considering you wanted this game to include strategic macro-management. But first it has to be reliable, at least make it trigger every x-th hit instead of 1/x% chance, second spawning an illusion and dragging it to enemy, even giving sight, this is like a Shield spell in Warlock or a Thorn Aura of the Keeper, hurting attackers for an actually valid, positive action. And the target does not even need to do anything here.

Indeed it doesn’t. You can’t actually dodge a thrown mine easily. If hyperspeed were to suddenly become active, sure it might be possible. You could even use grapple’s blink (level 5), but even then, it’s short ranged and probably won’t get you out of the impact area. I plan to increase Blink’s distance to allow teleporting to the other side though.

I surely thought of Blink but this is level 5, has some cooldown etc. Area range and damage should not actually be that high. How about making it a line damage upon impact? Like 3 explosions in a row covering a length about 2/3 the width that of a walkable side and area range about the size of a Pudge, time interval being 0.3 seconds or so. This should add more zoneability and less one-shot-ness.

If the river was any wider, then it’d leave little room for actual movement.

You do not have to widen the whole river though. It just seems that you are even more immovable in the river and that Grapple is more vital. Having only one skill at the beginning is a bit few anyway.

Revival locations are random, so I can’t see how you can camp them.

I always spawned at either the top or the bottom. Afkers were picked up and the real problem is that you will most likely want to upgrade/buy things which is why the shops get assaulted. Why not being able to purchase and upgrade during revival time?

For charged items, there are a lot of possibilities like temporarily heightening attack damage, armor/life, movement speed, invisibility, invulnerability, charged abilities, the fire hook buff, blink, small summons, ... The good thing would be that those were risky investments with a limit unlike your tome powerups that end in nowhere, balance-technically.
 
Level 21
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1,554
Big # to all things water metioned.

Another thing I noticed is the new river-powerup. Unlike the other items where you instantly or at least after 1 try(bomb) notice what effect it has, the new fountain-thingy has no feedback whatsoever?!
I have no idea what it does, probably something fountain-related, but you can't tell by getting it.

Most things waterKnight metioned are kind of avoided by me, because I only play 2on2 ( >2 is just ridiculous Spam, headshots and denies at total random, etc. ).

Shops truly are a too hot spot - I also hook there if I don't see enemy movent or just toss a mine, which covers the whole area.

I don't like that Toss has an AoE Circle as Spelltarget - because its kinda irretating because the unit-toss doesn't have the same radius as a mine toss(ir does it?), I liked the Point target more.
 
Level 15
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Messages
889
I surely thought of Blink but this is level 5, has some cooldown etc. Area range and damage should not actually be that high. How about making it a line damage upon impact? Like 3 explosions in a row covering a length about 2/3 the width that of a walkable side and area range about the size of a Pudge, time interval being 0.3 seconds or so. This should add more zoneability and less one-shot-ness.

Well, I guess it would be more viable to lower the damage of land mines so the damage dealt by thrown land mines is also reduced as well.

Land mines were quite powerful anyways. Techies Explosive Barrel is merely paying homage to DotA, I guess. I like how these items and their respective abilities have been implemented, but some of them are a bit farfetched and rather imbalanced. Akin to what you have said, the signature Meat Hook loses its value because of the existence of some of these abilities.

You do not have to widen the whole river though. It just seems that you are even more immovable in the river and that Grapple is more vital. Having only one skill at the beginning is a bit few anyway.

The river is sort of a no-go zone. You’ve got limited movement opportunity and both sides have sight of the river. I guess the only purpose of the river was to divide the two teams.

I always spawned at either the top or the bottom. Afkers were picked up and the real problem is that you will most likely want to upgrade/buy things which is why the shops get assaulted. Why not being able to purchase and upgrade during revival time?

The revival locations should be random, it’s coincidence that you spawned at only the top/bottom sections. I guess you have to shop at your own risk :3

For charged items, there are a lot of possibilities like temporarily heightening attack damage, armor/life, movement speed, invisibility, invulnerability, charged abilities, the fire hook buff, blink, small summons, ... The good thing would be that those were risky investments with a limit unlike your tome powerups that end in nowhere, balance-technically.

Attack damage isn’t as effective as hooks/other abilities because you can easily be Tossed away or hooked away. Armor isn’t used in the game (although it could be a feature in distant versions, but I doubt Warcraft III will be played that much o.o). Invisibility is easily countered by Reveal. Invulnerability is imbalanced. Charged abilities sounds like a better idea. Although they’d have to be powerups that activate upon purchase, I would think. This is because most players fill their inventory with other permanent items.

Pepper said:
In the shop, there was two items named 'N'aix' Jaws'.

I’ve already got this noted. Thanks anyways.


Another thing I noticed is the new river-powerup. Unlike the other items where you instantly or at least after 1 try(bomb) notice what effect it has, the new fountain-thingy has no feedback whatsoever?!
I have no idea what it does, probably something fountain-related, but you can't tell by getting it.

It actually does . . . NOTHING .. yet! HAHA! I just forgot to disable it from spawning, lol.

I don't like that Toss has an AoE Circle as Spelltarget - because its kinda irretating because the unit-toss doesn't have the same radius as a mine toss(ir does it?), I liked the Point target more.

Unit-toss damage radius is 300.Mine-toss damage radius is 500 for half damage, and 250 for full damage. These values are for level 5. The targeting image is only so you where to avoid targeting. The projectile will stop bouncing when it hits another unit within 325 radius (the targeting image radius). So if that lightpost is in the targeting image, target so it’s not in it. This was my train of thought when adding in that feature.
 
Level 25
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For example analyzing the enemies movements by viewing the attack directions or scanning the unknown with hook rather than exactly knowing where the enemy is without vision.

Attack damage would be more viable if things were not so exaggerated. If there was armor, it should be somehow selective, so you are only protected against certain attacks. It's usual to have some kind of revelation when there is invisibility but that does not mean that it should be cost-free or non-situational. Else the present form of invisibility makes no sense either. Invulnerability is not imbalanced in general but it can be selective too. Games where the inventory is full are too late-game anyway, at the moment, and after all, you cannot have all permanent items either. Why not just add the Grappling Hook right to the Pudge at level 1? So you have some start possibility and movability but do not make it short so you cannot reach the enemy side. Then you can upgrade it with powerups.
 
Level 1
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I've tested this map with my friend vs AI players. I realy like this map, but AI sometimes just stuck in the end of the map and if you play round mode vs AI and you die you must wait 5 minutes till they end. and well create harder AI or mode like in original pudge wars you can select normal AI or super AI.
 
Level 15
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889
I've tested this map with my friend vs AI players. I realy like this map, but AI sometimes just stuck in the end of the map and if you play round mode vs AI and you die you must wait 5 minutes till they end. and well create harder AI or mode like in original pudge wars you can select normal AI or super AI.

Yeah, the AI movement tends to focus in the corners for some reason. Not sure why, their movement is supposed to be random, yet it always end up being a corner. I suppose there would be a logical reason for this. I think I've fixed this now. I haven't tested it that much though.

I suppose this does create a problem for the rounds mode, I can only suggest you play kills mode or timed mode instead at the moment. Also, I'm intrigued by the AI in the original Pudge Wars. I'm not sure which is the original, so do you have a link to it or something?

Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Level 1
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Jun 21, 2012
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7
Yeah, the AI movement tends to focus in the corners for some reason. Not sure why, their movement is supposed to be random, yet it always end up being a corner. I suppose there would be a logical reason for this. I think I've fixed this now. I haven't tested it that much though.

I suppose this does create a problem for the rounds mode, I can only suggest you play kills mode or timed mode instead at the moment. Also, I'm intrigued by the AI in the original Pudge Wars. I'm not sure which is the original, so do you have a link to it or something?

Thanks for the feedback.

This version is called pudge wars x 1.23, I downloaded in from garena server so I just know the version. http://www.epicwar.com/maps/176501/
 
Level 15
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889
Hey Blackrose, how about posting a Link to the old 2.01-Versions, because they don't suck so badly like the current ones.

Kindly regards.

What part of the current ones suck so badly?

I've made a post where all the versions of Pudge Wars that I can find are linked. I'll also be releasing unprotected copies for people to play around with. I don't think I'll touch Pudge Wars after the next update for a very long time.
 
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Level 4
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Jul 15, 2012
Messages
89
today i was playing this map(ver2.0c) midle of the game suddenly it said DoctorReza(which is me) is using map hacks !
why would it say that while i wasnt using mh?
i didnt like that at all cuz now i cant persuade them that im not using mh
 
Level 15
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889
today i was playing this map(ver2.0c) midle of the game suddenly it said DoctorReza(which is me) is using map hacks !
why would it say that while i wasnt using mh?
i didnt like that at all cuz now i cant persuade them that im not using mh

The maphack detector was removed several, several, several versions ago. You shouldn't really be playing an old buggy version. The maphack detector is indeed inaccurate and wasn't the best of ideas. People are idiots; they'll believe anything you tell them. I guess they're the stubborn type who wouldn't accept anything you throw at them. You could try telling them that I said that the detector wasn't correct and link them here I suppose.
 
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