[Minigame] [POLL] Glideon - How heavy is it?

[Kazeon]

Unnecesary intro

Hmm.. It's been some weeks since Glideon was firstly published. I think there are already some people who tested the Glideon. Since I never tested it's performance in other PC (other than on my own desktop and laptop), I never been sure about the playability of this game. I'm always afraid about this matter. Some people do not bother to report any issue/problems they encounter while playing.

Probably, the most common problem happens is FPS drop since Glideon uses 3D person camera mode and it renders a lot of objects at the same time (Warcraft 3 wasn't made for this camera mode). The question is simple:

Did you experience any form of FPS drop while playing Glideon?

 

[rulerofiron99]

Tried it again, silky smooth 65 FPS as always.

As I've advised you several times in other threads, the camera is jerky because it's locked to the unit. The way I know this is that I can see the racer doesn't jump around, while the terrain does.

The solution is to PAN camera to a location every loop (0.03 sec or whatever you have). Just remember that when you do this, at higher speeds the racer unit will be the thing that starts being jerky. You can mitigate this issue by adding a fire/smoke trail behind the unit (think afterburners), which will hide most of the jerkiness.

An added advantage of using pan camera over lock camera is that you can move the camera target in front of the racer, so that the racer is at the bottom of the camera instead of the middle, which improves your vision.

 

[Kazeon]

Tried it again, silky smooth 65 FPS as always.

As I've advised you several times in other threads, the camera is jerky because it's locked to the unit. The way I know this is that I can see the racer doesn't jump around, while the terrain does.

The solution is to PAN camera to a location every loop (0.03 sec or whatever you have). Just remember that when you do this, at higher speeds the racer unit will be the thing that starts being jerky. You can mitigate this issue by adding a fire/smoke trail behind the unit (think afterburners), which will hide most of the jerkiness.

An added advantage of using pan camera over lock camera is that you can move the camera target in front of the racer, so that the racer is at the bottom of the camera instead of the middle, which improves your vision.

You could run the old version with full FPS so why not the newest one? Maybe having full FPS has it's own disadvantage. As in my screen the camera looks alright, so I don't really understand what do you mean with jerky? Is it too sharp or what? I need to test the map at the same FPS my self to fully understand you.

Using locked camera also allows you to adjust the camera offset.

I tested using pan camera method and as you said, the problem is when the speed is become faster. I even used 0.01 interval for the camera but it's still not fast enough to follow the racer. Looks like they're moving slowly indeed, the speed meter also only stay around 7 m/s (it's my own formula to convert px to meter, 1 meter = 16 pixel or something), but when the number is reverted to normal speed, they are moving with 70+ range away per 0.03125 second, which is really - really fast. Using lower interval doesn't really shows differences compared to locking the camera. And also, I thought the jerky camera was fixed once I successfully run the core system every 0.03 second without FPS drop, and you were disappeared from the thread since then thought you don't have that problem anymore.

I will work around this issue again tho. Thanks for the report.

 

[rulerofiron99]

You could run the old version with full FPS so why not the newest one?

65 FPS is as high as it goes, so it's the same as before.

I tested using pan camera method and as you said, the problem is when the speed is become faster. I even used 0.01 interval for the camera but it's still not fast enough to follow the racer. Looks like they're moving slowly indeed, the speed meter also only stay around 7 m/s (it's my own formula to convert px to meter, 1 meter = 16 pixel or something), but when the number is reverted to normal speed, they are moving with 70+ range away per 0.03125 second, which is really - really fast. Using lower interval doesn't really shows differences compared to locking the camera.

Are you using pan camera over time, or instantly? Instant will be jerky, while panning camera over time allows the engine to work its magic at a deeper level not accessible to us which lets it be smoother.

You're quite right that at those speeds it's going to be jerky, but in my experience you have to choose:
Locked camera - racer is smooth - terrain is jerky
Pan camera over time - racer is jerky - terrain is smooth

The terrain takes up more of the screen so it's more noticeable, that's why pan camera is my own preference.

I just had another idea, you could maybe hide the terrain's shakiness a bit by using a fade filter.

I'll see if I can make a demo map with a video for you to illustrate the difference, but this requires that your PC is capable of displaying 60 frames per second.

And also, I thought the jerky camera was fixed once I successfully run the core system every 0.03 second without FPS drop, and you were disappeared from the thread since then thought you don't have that problem anymore.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I only pop in now and then to check your map's progress, I don't actually play it.

 

[Kazeon]

Pan camera over time - racer is jerky - terrain is smooth

Nah now I also remember that it is also one big problem when I tried using panned camera. Believe me, jerky camera is much better than jerky racer.

And of course I didn't instantly pan the camera but with 0.01 delay like I said before.

I just had another idea, you could maybe hide the terrain's shakiness a bit by using a fade filter.

Now I don't know about this one, sounds interesting.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Video

Unfortunately the video came out worse than expected, so I'm not sure if you'll notice the difference in smoothness at the trees on the side. It's much more noticeable when going around cliffs.

Anyway I've made a quick video of your map at 60 FPS, it's busy uploading. You'll see quite clearly the camera jerkiness.

More on the fade filter: you could use the one called "Dream", which has lines going out from the center and faded out in the middle of the screen. Remember you can use the local player method to display this to players individually.

EDIT: Here it is

Video

Another thing you could do is to make the camera speed dynamic. Instead of having the camera instantly rotate with your racer, the rotation speed should be based on difference between camera angle and racer angle. If they are close together, rotate slowly. If they are far apart, rotate faster.

 

[Kazeon]

Unfortunately the video came out worse than expected, so I'm not sure if you'll notice the difference in smoothness at the trees on the side. It's much more noticeable when going around cliffs.

Sadly, it looks exactly the same in my screen, I don't notice the jerky thingy using locked camera.

Will be waiting for the other video. Thanks a lot for your times.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I think the locked camera looks better. But it depends on the ground.

The panned movement would fit a bumpy/offroad environment better, because what you consider a problem (jerky character) would actually become a feature then...

Think about it. Use both methods depending on the ground in play.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Added to my previous post. Perhaps I'll make a video using my Just Drift map to show how bad it can get. If you go really fast the jerkiness will give you a headache, so I prefer to just make the racer jerky instead and focus more on the map.

 

[Kazeon]

Uh... is it just me who can't notice the difference and failed to see the jerkiness? As far as my eyes can see, it performs exactly the same as my PC, dunno is that because recording also costs some FPS or what. Or maybe because you are used to play graphically superior games so that this map looks bad in your eyes?

Think about it. Use both methods depending on the ground in play.

I don't get it. How? Using panned camera always causes jerky looking racer in any case, except maybe by applying different camera update rate depends on the speed like ruler said.

 

[rulerofiron99]

I guess some people are more or less sensitive to it than others. Meh, all of this camera watching has given me a headache.

 

[Kazeon]

I guess some people are more or less sensitive to it than others. Meh, all of this camera watching has given me a headache.

Don't worry, even tho I'm failed to notice the issue visually, but I understand what may causes it. I will try to work around this in the next update. Thanks for bringing up the issue.