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[Defense / Survival] Orc Gladiators: Revenge

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by pick-a-chew, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    I feel a bit weird posting this, because i already have a thread in this forum about a similar map i started called Soul Gladiators. Before i started making Soul Gladiators, i had started work on Orc Gladiators clone but had lost the work on it (5+ years ago). Or so i thought, until i found it a few months ago on a memory stick!

    Rather than finishing Soul Gladiators (which is considerably more complex than Orc Gladiators and would need a lot more time), i decided to instead spend time finishing this old project, mainly because (1) everyone knows what Orc Gladiators is and (2) it was pretty well developed, and (3) i knew i could easily move systems from Soul Gladiators and my other various dormant projects into this one.

    The map as a whole has virutally all essential components implemented. It is playable; everything works smoothly, the game has all 20 waves, there's 7 weapons to choose from.

    I am going to push to release it soon, but i am keen to listen for feedback if anyone likes Orc Gladiators and wants to give mine a try.

    I know i'm bad at making fancy map descriptions, but here's the basics:

    GAMEPLAY AND FEATURES:
    • Up to 10 players. The game scales with player number, though the game will always be easier with more people, especially for the later waves.
    • 7 Weapons. Scythe, Druid Staff, War Hammer, Double Blade, Katana, Claws and Bow.
    • Automatic Skill Aquisition. As with other Orc Gladiator games, you automatically gain abilities as you level up. You gain abilities on levels 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, giving each Weapon 6 abilities.
    • Scaling Abilities. All ability damage and healing is scaled off of attributes, and so are summoning abilities.
    • Talent Points. Each player has an upgrade building to further enhance your abilities. Ever wanted to have a reduced cooldown Tranquility? Summon 1 big Feral Spirit instead of 2 small ones? Make your Mana Tide totem also restore health? This game can do it! You get a Talent Point on hero levels 8, 10, 12 etc.
    • Balanced Mana Costs. All heroes have a high base mana regeneration of 2.0 points per second, and all mana costs are relatively low. This means you'll never get frustrated for being oom for long.
    • Reward System. At the end of each wave, choose 1 Reward from a selection of 3 via a dialog box. Choose the reward that benefits you the most.
    • 20 Waves. With the exception of waves 19 and 20, there's a Boss every 3 waves to keep things challenging. Bosses are quite simple at the moment, but they all have at least 1 ability which will require you to act accordingly.
    • Potions. Potions are permanent in this game, but they share cooldowns. This allows you to sustain yourself if your Weapon has limited self-sufficiency, or if your group is wiping and you need to retreat/kite to regenerate health and mana.
    • Scrolls. Scrolls are limited/charged items that have powerful effects, such as reviving a player, boosting armour or stunning a boss.
    • Upgradeable Items. Running out of things to spend gold on? These items are affordable and can be purchased 10 times to upgrade them.
    SCREENSHOTS OF GAMEPLAY

    Reward System
    [​IMG]


    Typical Fighting
    [​IMG]


    Shrek Meme
    [​IMG]


    The only major thing i'm missing from the map is the Credits because i have used a lot. But Bribe's DDS gets a special mention right now because really you can make anything possible with it!

    Map attached.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  2. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Legal bump.

    Updated the map with fixed bugs. Have done quite a bit of testing courtesy of MMH. Overall the map is quite easy, the next version i will be tweaking waves to make them harder and to make the bosses more engaging/difficult. Still looking for constructive feedback <3
     
  3. Rayess

    Rayess

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    Played it with three friends, so here our feedback.

    - Are hydras burning my mana when I hit them? That's a little too strong I think. And not very interesting.
    - Gold is useless until round 8 or something like that, except for buying water. Maybe adding some
    - The reward system is somewhat broken. I had two or three times the choice to get 25 gold, which is not very interesting. Sometimes, I have possibilities instead of three (like +1 int or +7 dmg or +1 int), or there is no choice to be made at all (+1 str +1 int or +1 to all stats or +1 str +1 int again).

    Otherwise, the map is fun! Thanks for updating it!
     
  4. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Thanks for the feedback!

    1. The Arcane Hydras do have feedback which burns mana when they attack you (there's 3 types; Fire Hydras (HP regen), Arcane Hydras (Feedback) and Ice Hydras (High base-armour). I decided to put feedback on some enemies to give groups who are very spell-dependent a bit of a challenge. I will try to make it more obvious what each hydra does (the Hydra model is horrible and it doesn't tint very well). If the mana burn is too much, i may lower it. Or i might lower their health so the wave dies before your group becomes mana starved to the point of wiping.
    • Generally the last outstanding thing i need to do is to brush up all the waves and make them more interesting. Bosses get overwhelmed by summons, and some waves or bosses do not have any mechanics/abilities at all (e.g. Furbolg wave). What would make a wave interesting to you?
    2. I am thinking of adding other early-game items to help boost performance (things that you will need to sell later on, or use). But i still want everyone's priority to be get a decent potion and decent boots first.
    3. Reward System is very random, i haven't attempted yet to make it not give you repeat-choices (which i think is what you're describing, e.g. choice 1 and 2 are the same), but i'll see if i can fix that. I am going to nerf hybrid choices like +1 int, +7 dmg to be balanced (i.e. +1 int, +5 dmg). The system is intended to make you think. Generally you always want to get your primary stat, and if you cant, then HP or DMG depending on your role. I admit +1 all stats its overbudgeted, i put it in as a "lucky you" kind of option, but +2 your primary stat is still the best, which i think is OK.
    Out of curiosity, which classes did you play? Did you get stuck on the hydras?

    Thanks again tho <3
     
  5. Rayess

    Rayess

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    Hello again,

    1. We first played with a Scythe, Bow, Katana and double blade (we all randomized our class). We didn't get stuck on the hydras (we died wave 17 I think), but they were a little boring to kill, because of our lack of mana. Making more obvious what they do should make the trick...

    Adding spellcasters should make waves more interesting. Some blizzard, aoe entrangling roots with an alert of some king... Spells like that would make the player move in the arena.

    2. That's what we did, but still... We have to wait for wave 3 or 4 to get the first hundred coins. Less with the new bonus coin for dps and tank.

    3. Yeah, I was talking about repeats-choices. No problem otherwise!

    4. We played the new version (as we played for the first time 2 hours or so before the update). We wanted to try the three weapons we didn't use before: Druid staff, claws and battlehammer. The fourth of us got a druid staff by random, so, we got two druids. And, damn, they're a bit too powerful I think. BattleHammer and claws were first tank and damage for the five or six first rounds, then the druids were. And best healers, for sure.

    5. Apparently, killing the mirror-image wave 17 gives the rewards of the blademaster. Can't say precisely, as I was disconnected before this.
     
  6. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    I am aware of this bug and have it fixed it an upcoming version. The EXP gain and gold bonus don't actually trigger so it's nothing too serious, just spams you with the reward message :p.

    Druids are pretty powerful... in that new version you played, they had already been nerfed! I think its mostly due to Force of Nature; the treants live for too long. At the end of the game, the Treant Protector (talent version) can tank an entire wave for about 7 or 8 seconds. I will look into reducing their health or duration.

    Thanks for the further info <3
     
  7. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Legally bumping again.

    Still looking for feedback whilst i work on the update. Next update is pretty big and addresses all the concerns Rayess made!
     
  8. millzy

    millzy

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    Have a boss summon a powerfull healing ward that players have to kill?

    Add aoe abilitys that force players to move around?

    Give the boss an ability that damages summons by a high value?
     
  9. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Map has been updated. These are the minor changes:
    • Grammar changes on some tooltips.
    • New items at Relic shop.
    • A new shop has been added that sells mostly early game items
    • Druid tweaked.
    • Scythe tweaked.
    • Various improvements to some items.
    • The chance to get duplicate options for end-of-round Reward has been reduced greatly.
    • New talents for Scythe, Double Blade and Claws.
    But by far the biggest changes are:
    • All wave mobs now have abilities
    • Later bosses have abilities, more damage and are better at dealing with summons
    How this works is that all enemies generate mana by dealing physical damage. Most enemies, upon reaching 90 mana, will activate an ability (e.g. poison, stun, enrage, spell immunity) that may have a temporary or permanent duration.

    I expect this to blow up the wave balancing quite badly, and my aim for the next version is to make the game harder/easier where appropiate. I have also not yet tested this in multiplayer (i plan to later), but providing there's no gamebreaking bugs, i will rebalance things and then release.

    It has been uploaded onto MakeMeHost for easier playing.

    previous post

    In the next version, all bosses will do 200% more damage to summons and illusions with their attacks. Unless summons are protected/buffed, they should die v. quickly.

    I am a bit reluctant to put in hostile AoE abilities as it clutters the screen, it's hard to differentiate between friendly damaging AOE effects and hostile damaging effects (e.g. a friendly rain of fire and a bad one) and if you're holed up in a corner and stuff starts raining down on you, you're probably screwed (and part of the classic OG gameplay is defending a point as a team).

    In the upcoming version, enemies "charge up" by attacking, and after a certain point will use an active ability (e.g. entangle) or gain a passive ability (e.g. enrage gaining increased attack speed), which i'm hoping will encourage people to apply CC/slows on enemies, or to focus specific enemies that have enraged.

    I have something like this being made for a boss which summons a War Banner that increases the attack damage of nearby enemies!
     
  10. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Map updated again. A new playable weapon has been added; the Great Axe (learns Shockwave, War Stomp, Endurance Aura, Mortal Strike, Juggernaut and Berserker's Blood).

    I have balanced things again but will need to do some more testing before i can release. Ideally i should implement at least 1 more weapon before then.

    So still taking feedback if anyone's out there <3
     
  11. Rayess

    Rayess

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    I'll give a feedback as soon as I can!
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  12. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Thanks! I've probably just missed you but i have put a new version in this thread. It features the Pickaxe weapon (which is entirely new to Orc Gladiators). This one revolves around having a Watch Tower to help your team hold out. More importantly it features a crash fix caused by learning some talents for aura abilities whilst dead (you can no longer apply talents whilst dead).

    cheers!
     
  13. BaronF4

    BaronF4

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    Wow, epic map bro! Enjoying it so much. Continue your work.

    P.S. Pickaxe last skill have to be changed. Looks very useless.
     
  14. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Glad you like it!

    Hydra Arrows? It's actually pretty powerful to temporarily give your tower a multi-shot. If you take the right talents, your tower will dish out a lot of damage to enemies. Since it lasts so long, it can feel a bit "boring" because the tower multi-shots a few targets for a long time. I could reduce its duration and increase the amount of targets it hits to make it feel more epic. Pickaxe as a whole is underpowered at the moment, so you can expect some buffs/improvements to it in the next version.

    Also anyone who cares, the Shaman Energize talent doesn't do anything by itself. Avoid it! (fixed in next ver ofc).
     
  15. BaronF4

    BaronF4

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    Hydra Arrows is very good skill. I mean gold spaming skill, that skill appears the last one for Pickaxe.

    And I made preview image for your map. I will be happy if you use it. Say if you want to change something.

    Preview.png
     
  16. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Ahh, Scavenger. It's not very useless, the last skill on most classes is very situational (Necro = Res, Katana = HP/MP when an ally dies), but i think you're right when you say it looks useless. If 100 coins drop in a game, you'll get 10 more coins, but you probably wont notice it. I may change it to increase the amount of gold you get from coins instead.

    That's a very nice preview! I actually just released a new version with several changes, but i'll definitely consider using this in the next ver since i have 0% chance of making a decent one myself!
     
  17. Rayess

    Rayess

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    So, I tried the new version. Again, four players.
    Tried the pickaxe. Indeed, the last spell seems useless. 10 coins for the game, it's nothing when a coin gives something like 7 gold or so.

    With their new spells, the ennemies deals far more damage... A little bit too much we'd say, cause they are tanky too. The game become far too quickly a kitting simulator. We had on every wave a player running around, all the monsters behind him. The others just had to attack until the enemy switch target, and here we go again.
    I think you should either nerf ennemies hitpoints, spell damages or the number of ennemies.

    Also, you maybe could add more ranged weapons. A wand, rifle, crossbow, a rifle or maybe potions for an alchemist-like character?
     
  18. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    This is a very good point when it comes for me trying to balance waves, which isn't easy. Early in the game, if you dump AOE spells (like Rain of Fire, Lightning Bolt, Entangle etc.) on groups of enemies, they melt pretty quickly. Later in the game, spell damage isn't really that high, but auto-attack damage can become quite excessive (in the current verison, pickaxe is overpowered and is going to get the nerf hammer), which i think has led to me increasing the HP of enemies. In turn this means that if your group doesn't have a good auto-attacker, you're probably screwed.
    Also, if like you, you are a small group of 4 people, you wont be able to have a full varied group composition. In a full-house game, you probably have a lot more variety, and a lot of weapons specialize in certain roles (Katana = single-target focus, Druid = heal/tank support, Pickaxe = hold the point, Bow = ranged/aoe damage, War Hammer = AoE CC, tank, Double Edge = lifesteal/tank etc.). Basically the game is going to be harder with fewer people, and i'm not sure how to fix that yet.

    Spell damages are getting nerfed from creeps, especially ranged creeps that cast a damaging stun. They're too annoying.

    Is there a wave that you think has too many enemies? The way the map is coded is to spawn 3, 6, 9 or 12 enemies per player.

    I am currently working on a ranged weapon (War Drums) that's about 33% complete. It's an agility support type. Think of the Kodo Riders but just an orc with drums... Did think about an alchemist type character too but the inspiriation for the drums got to me first! If you have any other desires or ideas for other things in the game, nows your chance!

    Thanks again for your thoughts & feedback.

    P.S. what was your full group comp?
     
  19. BaronF4

    BaronF4

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    Hey. Can you send me map (without scripts and unit data if you want to secure your creation), I want to experiment with terrain and make it more interesting. Ppl stay in certain places and dont like others, I want to fix this. Especially right-bottom corner and center: nothing interesting to stay there. Never saw someone want to defend that places.

    Very interesting. I hope he will have Transmutations skill to instantly convert creeps into gold and craft items. Btw we can have only 4 items, its ok now, but if you make map more complicated and longer, players will suffer lack of inventory space. (Free first slot? Somehow make more slots?)
     
  20. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Asides from adding other items to the Hexes shop (only sells EXP and lumber, but i plan to make it sell attributes (with an interesting trade-off) in hopefully the next version) i agree end-game inventory space feels a bit limited. I was thinking of making the Level 10 version of the stackables to be consumable (e.g. Level 10 Belt of Strength, use it to permanently add +40 strength and it removes the item from inventory).

    Once i've done some edits (working on new weapon at the mo), i'll either attach a stripped version or a very old version here later Baron!

    I'm guilty of always camping the rocks :p