Northrend Bound v1.85

[Mr.Kim]

This map seems like Founders of the north!
I love this type of maps

 

[PhucTH]

Tried your map. Great work. Thank for an amazing map. Here some suggestions.
1/The fact that you have multiple race in an LoAP map is quite fun. But can you let player pick race when we are in game. That make thing easier.
2/Show the advantage and disadvantage of each race when pick races. Such as difference in stats, suitable jobs, etc. Like when you have Dwarf with good Drafting or mining.
3/Change Orc's model. Orc race has the same model with human race? Is it because you 're lack of models? If it is, you can ask for help from Hiveworkshop''s community.
4/You said is made base on Warcraft universe. So exactly, which timeline it based on? Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm.... And do you aware of the fact that Lich King and Old God is resident in Northern as well? There many things you need to do before your map can truly become somewhat Lore related.
5/You don't need to add the whole troops tech from WarIII, only a few race specific unit from each race is enough, like Ghoul and Necromancer of Undead, Archer and Druid of Night Elf, Footman and Priest of Human, Grunt and Shaman of Orc. Focus on custom unit. Aslo, heroes is not necessary. The hero we got from the beginning is enough. You may try allow a class pick for varity

 

[Wark]

3/Change Orc's model.

No, the Orc doesn't have the same model as the humans. Something's not right there. I do have a custom model for it. I'll double check the unit data.

As for the universe, I simply want to make my own lore, but with Warcraft creatures and races. It is not related at all to the original timelines.

I definitely plan to have more options to pick your race and starting gear. It'll be in a future update.
Racial units, however looking similar, function very differently

You may try allow a class pick for varity

That does exist! Your weapon and stat selection determines your "class." You can gain achievements to become more proficient at a job. For example: if you fish a lot, your chance to catch a fish increases.

EDIT:
If you pick "random" on the map screen, it's the dwarf race. You pick your race before the map begins.
I guess I should add a diagram or explanation about this and unit counters.

 

[andrejoss]

May i ask what are the keys used for ? so far i have two, one is the iron key and one is from the dungeon that has that big tree and a lot of faeries in it

 

[Wark]

May i ask what are the keys used for ?

I won't spoil it for you. Once you're powerful enough to progress deep into the dungeon, you'll find out what they do
Else, you can just sell them for gold.

 

[deepstrasz]

Avoid playing music through the sound channel. Use the other Play Music trigger. And stop playing it every time the day/night starts or does it just play from time to time? Why fade to black and out when night/rain comes?
Did you credit the original Founders of the North creator? You could add a link too. I kind of guess, it's more than inspiration?
The Well starts regenerating while it is being built.

It is rather complex and holds true to the original.

Approved.

 

[Wark]

Why fade to black and out when night/rain comes?
Did you credit the original Founders of the North creator?

There's some things that happen when the game transitions between night and day. The fade in/out hides some units disappearing and reappearing for the most part.
Of course I credited the original creators. All of the trigger, terrain and object data are my own creation, of which was inspired greatly from FotN.

So, why is "Sound - Play Music" favored over "Sound - Play Music Theme?"
And, well, for the well, I guess I could put a trigger in that gives the regen abilities after it is constructed.
It makes sense.

 

[deepstrasz]

So, why is "Sound - Play Music" favored over "Sound - Play Music Theme?"

I mentioned why: one of them plays the music through the sound channel (you can stop it by shutting the sound channel off using for instance CTRL+S). It should play through the music channel.

 

[Wark]

Hm, OK.
I'll have to test how I can control the music through the music channel, then. I have it playing that theme at night to give a sort of ambience.
If the fade in is too much, I can reduce it.
Any thoughts on the way heroes or techtrees work? I'm starting to feel early game's a bit slow, and am wanting to improve everything.

 

[deepstrasz]

Any thoughts on the way heroes or techtrees work? I'm starting to feel early game's a bit slow, and am wanting to improve everything.

Well, it's a simulator type of game. It shouldn't be too fast. You could decrease the build time if that would make it better in some way. It gets faster after you play it a couple of times. Another thing is the distance between places you have to reach but that is part of the immersion.

 

[Wark]

I mean like, in terms of starting units, items and structures. Also, the way races are selected doesn't seem intuitive.
Do you think a dialog box for each individual player to pick what they start with would be better?
Any thoughts on tier 1 units other than the generic "thug?"

 

[deepstrasz]

Do you think a dialog box for each individual player to pick what they start with would be better?

Definitely.

I mean like, in terms of starting units, items and structures.

Just make sure players don't die eaten by wild animals form the start

Any thoughts on tier 1 units other than the generic "thug?"

Well, the Thug is used for many things. I guess one type of miner is enough and it can also become something else. I see it fair this way, not being able to train multiple unit types like in Warcraft right from the early game. However, I could suggest being able to, uhm, turn Thugs either ranged or melee for ease of fighting in narrow places.
From what I've seen, there's no defense in the early game rather than walls and the Thugs. There are no towers. I think this is OK like this because otherwise it would make the player focus more on few units.

 

[Wark]

Perfect, thank you for the feedback. I'll see what other players have to say!

 

[Saito]

A little bit about the bugs I've noticed in the map.
At first, and what hurts me the most: When you have Soul Reaper weapon and Arcane Orb, using the mirror image deletes main weapon's abilities. I've noticed this happens only when you're using Soul Reaper as a main weapon and it quite destroys the combo.
Also you can use sanctions only when you're human. Is that planned? You really should add somewhere information of each race's pros and cons.
And barn says you can train horses, but you cannot, you terrible liar! I hope that will change soon!

And a little bit of feedback about the map:
Right now, it seems pretty good, butts. While the balance seems to be good, the aura items sold by traveling merchants are way too cheap as for their power. You could also limit heroes to having only one of those, because if your hero acts just like an aura conduit for your army, you're able to defeat almost anyone. Also the rifleman piercing shot ability seems a little bit too powerful, but I did not check carefully how does it work. If you'd limit the number of additional targets to 1, that would be fine, but they might be able to defeat entire armies without any problems just by shooting at the frontline. Unless they're limited with range too
There's definetly too little of dungeoneering and I think that there should be tactics for making a "hero", without building a great settlement.
The fact that you can eaisly die at the beginning of the game and lose this way is pretty annoying too.
And the animations. As far as I remember the models you've brought as heroes do have more animations for attacks and stuff you just need to add the prefixes. It looks really funny when that elf guy swings his musket to shoot at enemy
In overall, this map makes a great replacement for FotN and I hope you'll continue to make it great, for it really lacks dungeoneering and bossfighting now!

EDIT:
You lose all your abilities from items when the mirror image expires.

 

[Wark]

using the mirror image deletes main weapon's abilities

I thought I had that bug fixed. There's something weird that happens with mirror images because of how I have heroes changing abilities.
I'll look into it.
Since when do barns say they train horses I know inns train horses. Hmm.

For racial information, I sort of have it on the town hall descriptions... but you don't really see that until like, mid game.
I am going to make it much more apparent next update, with more starting options. (race descriptions, weapon selection)

it really lacks dungeoneering and bossfighting now!

I have MUCH more planned in terms of dungeon stuff and quests in general so that you can focus solely on your hero.
As of now, the dungeon quests are all I've got set up. Expect bounties, raiding quests, and boss fights in the future!

the aura items sold by traveling merchants are way too cheap
the rifleman piercing shot ability seems a little bit too powerful
It looks really funny when that elf guy swings his musket to shoot at enemy

If a hero's using a bunch of aura items, then that'll make them quite vulnerable without other accessories/armor/weapons.
I may make those items more expensive.

Yea, the rifleman's piercing shot has a range limit, and only hits an additional 1 target for 75% damage.

The animations for ranged weapons are difficult. The models themselves have a set of "attack" animations, which defaults to that on each attack. I could force ranged heroes with crossbows or muskets to use "spell throw" with triggers, but I am not sure how ... messy that may be.

 

[SoulStealer]

A remake of FOTN,FOTN has been my favorite map for a long time,Let's try yours now.

 

[PhucTH]

EDIT:
If you pick "random" on the map screen, it's the dwarf race. You pick your race before the map begins.
I guess I should add a diagram or explanation about this and unit counters.

I understand that. I mean if you can let us pick race when we start the game, that will be easier since we are custom to it.

Add some events. ETC: Dead Rising, invasion from others countries...
You can make some dungeon based on Warcraft Lore.
Right now, we mostly focus on Dungeon and War on land. The sea is mostly useless except for fishing. Make use of it.

 

[Ardenaso]

I see this game has a great start for a 1.00; though I have beef with bears, their bash is like 80% chance!

I want to capture towns again like in FotN. Also, to conquer cities, do I have to set my reputation to very low?

 

[Wark]

to conquer cities, do I have to set my reputation to very low?

I haven't implemented that yet. I plan to make it a feature related to reputation.
It'll likely have something to do with defeating a town's leader to conquer said town in the future.
And yea, them bears heh. It's actually a 33% chance. They aren't meant to be easy prey.

The sea is mostly useless except for fishing. Make use of it

Oh, I plan to. So far naval units are working as intended. Expect pirates, NPC merchant ships open for raiding, and at least one naval-based boss in the future. As for when? 1-man crew, here. It'll take some time.

 

[Insanity_AI]

So, one day I got bored so I made a little something.
Northrend Bound Spreadsheet

 

[ankhar]

hello.
very appreciate this map, gonna play this a lot)

Looks like I find a bug for elves(and orc has same issue, necropolis was ok, i dont know about human race) - I cant build a settlement, despite the fact that all requirements are met.
May be problem in inn, because it doesnt looks like dwarfs inn.

Also, one player tried to demolish my barn by pressing a button - and it works!

 

[Wark]

Settlements are broken? Gotta fix that.
@Insanity_AI
Awesome work on that spreadsheet! That's basically how the weapons work in the game. I could probably use that as a reference for players.
More weapons will be added; specifically ones with other abilities that can't be upgraded. (dungeon drops)

 

[PhucTH]

I haven't implemented that yet. I plan to make it a feature related to reputation.
It'll likely have something to do with defeating a town's leader to conquer said town in the future.

How about something like: A trigger that summon (a) quad(s) of troops lead by a hero. If you manage to defeat them, the city will be your?

 

[Wark]

I am down for suggestions. The foundation is laid, now is the time to figure out the events and fun stuff.
Use a hero with squad? Sure. The captain/leader/mayor/whatever of a town could be a hero. Makes sense.

 

[PhucTH]

I am down for suggestions. The foundation is laid, now is the time to figure out the events and fun stuff.

Since your map is Warcraft Universe-related, how about some of the Lore's events/bosses such as Lich King, Old God...
Add something like a Quiz for extra income

 

[Peaces]

How about destroy the towers and the main hall to make the city yours?
Add some unique goods to the island settlement such as banana and melon seeds.
Where are the cows for the barn?
Also, add currency to the game. No, not about taxes but for give thrills in hunting down units with lots of currency items.

 

[Wark]

for give thrills in hunting down units with lots of currency items.

Hehehe.
For now, try killing a "Caravan" and see what happens. Next update, the "bandit" techtree will make this more viable.

 

[Insanity_AI]

Bug report: Some people got disconnected/desynced upon loading?
Bug report: Seems that by destroying your tent, you lose all your gold and reputation.
Bug report: Theres a bug where your camera just gets stuck at some point, keeps resetting the camera to a cave entrance where the backpack unit is at. This occurs whenever your unit is in front of the entrance gets picked up by zeppelin/boat/teleports and then it comes daytime. Backpack is still at the entrance, unit is not, therefore the cause of this.
Bug report: Seems that everything seems to be deselecting and we're unable to buy anything from shops, or talk to citizens for that matter. Miraculously, it fixed itself after 2-3 days, for some reason.

Bug report: At some point, I couldn't cast anything or use any items, was fixed shortly after a minute. Don't know the cause of it. (Ability set from Invoke, Arcane Missiles, and mage sandals)

Note: We're currently in a game session, i'll just keep adding stuff that we find along the way, if required I can provide a replay file.
Game ended.

 

[Wark]

Seems that by destroying your tent, you lose all your gold and reputation

Yea, that's not supposed to happen unless your hero is dead too. There'll be a fix for that with some content some time next week.

I never considered what will happen to the backpack when the hero is picked up by a ship or zeppelin.
I have an idea for the deselection thing, and it is probably related to the other problems with not being able to cast spells sometimes.

Thank you for letting me know!

 

[Saito]

Bad things found part 2:
As NE you can have 2 mines(You entangle one). As Undead you might be able to have infinite mines thanks to haunted gold mines. Or just two too. Didn't check Undead.

Stacking boars is too profitable, since they cost you only 75g and no food(they cost 1 and they give 1!) you can stack a lot of them with a profit of 500 gold each(3 meats - 100 gold each in southern town, 1 hide - 200g in northern town).

The tent issue is really annoying.

Fishing boats are extremely ineffective, since you have to guard them. They can spawn murlocs when fishing too!

Quests are global.

That's all I found by the game I've just finished
Good luck with your work!

 

[Wark]

The tent issue is really annoying.

Oh, I know. I fixed that bugger real good.
I want to make the fishing boat have the ability to auto-fish before I release the next hot-fix.
Them boars are working as intended. That's a calculated gain dependant over time, and it's intentional to abuse the market for gold.
This will become more risky in the future when players have the option to pick individual alliances, or go "bandit"

Seems that everything seems to be deselecting and we're unable to buy anything from shops

I watched your replay, and I have an idea what's causing most of those problems.
I made some changes to the backpack positioning triggers. Unfortunately, I can't test it by myself.
Everything works fine with the backpack in single player... it's multiplayer that I cannot check.

 

[Insanity_AI]

I have a couple of ideas:

1. Grave robbing - Digging near graves inproves your chances of getting something good, at the cost of your reputation.
   
2. Random mob drops - Regarding dungeons, every mob drops that 'mob drop' item, and 1 or 2 mobs drop a Bandit Leather armor (in the mines) every time you kill it. How about randomizing that via Item sets so people may get something else. There may not be that many items to choose from but I'd find that dropping potions from time to time would be nice.

 

[Peaces]

Hehehe.
For now, try killing a "Caravan" and see what happens. Next update, the "bandit" techtree will make this more viable.

I see it but I meant as something buyable for, you know, exchanging coins with items from other players.

 

[Slein]

Personally don't like this 1 alliance system where everyone's allied as it ruins any competitiveness once the majority of players join it with no overworld pve content.
Speaking of that could use something like fotn had, spawned world bosses and sort of stuff like the plague.
Digging is way overpowered as its on very low cd and can dig up expensive shit such as tier 3 accessories.
So far maps seems alright but definitely needs more polishing.

 

[Wark]

Personally don't like this 1 alliance system

I don't either. It is terribly basic and mostly a filler. I want to change it entirely to be individual based.

Digging is like praying to the RNG gods. Some games I tested, I never got anything better than a tier 1 weapon.
You can count on there being a lot more in terms of world bosses and map-wide events.

exchanging coins with items from other players

Now that I can do. I can change some existing items to be used as a form of exchange or trade between players.
Those "stolen" coins just need a trigger to keep their worth when bought, and a name change. I could put those in the town centers.

Random mob drops

Unique dungeon loot will be a thing. Expect more variation once I get a good chance to sit down and figure this shit out.

 

[robizeratul]

I must say, this is a really solid foundation for the map. Right now, it is great. With enough work and passion you can make it amazing! I see some of my suggestion where implemented. Some other changes make this map even better than it was.

Right now, you should focus on polishing and making it more unique. Because of the map size expansion you can add plenty of stuff. Also, because fewer people play W3 than ever before (which is a bad thing) you can focus more on the single player experience. You can also expect that the people who will play this will be friends or already familiar with the games.

At least for a while don't think about big new features. That's my opinion at least.

1)add some camera options( if they are, I didn't see them)
2)make AFK fishing with boats work. However really increase the cost, food cost or add some sort of "maintenance fee" ( in FOTN at least, boats where really overpowered). Later you can add some pirates and stuff like that, making you value them more.
3)Add more variety in the animals. They are really lacking. Make it so animals kill each other and gain rank. This could be a really cool system. A wolf can become stronger and stronger. As a clever player you could scout from a distance and kill it when it has low HP after a fight. If left undone you can have some real problem on your head.


I am tired right now, can't think of more stuff... will play this map more for sure, had plenty of fun with it!

 

[Kiko17955]

You need to raise the 50k win to at least 150k win.
You can just make mine and spawn like 80 pigs and you have more than 25k

 

[Ardenaso]

Since the item requirements are base stats, there should permanent stat consumables even if they cost a lot of gold.

 

[Saito]

How about adding a little bit of rpgness - allowing you to go single-hero with only a little bit off crew, instead of stacking a full army. OF course that would block you from doing a settlement, but could allow getting more tiers of items, or anything. And increase rewards for quests I guess. I don't kinda like that at certain moment of the map you must have both an awesome hero and an army of twats just to tank the damage for your awesome hero.

Also, muskets are a little bit overpowered.

Also, you really need to make being a bandito and pvp profitable, like getting gold for enemy units killed. It really sucks when you get 0 gold for killing a thug.

 

[Kiko17955]

How about adding a little bit of rpgness - allowing you to go single-hero with only a little bit off crew, instead of stacking a full army. OF course that would block you from doing a settlement, but could allow getting more tiers of items, or anything. And increase rewards for quests I guess. I don't kinda like that at certain moment of the map you must have both an awesome hero and an army of twats just to tank the damage for your awesome hero.

Also, muskets are a little bit overpowered.

Also, you really need to make being a bandito and pvp profitable, like getting gold for enemy units killed. It really sucks when you get 0 gold for killing a thug.

Thugs cost 0 gold, why would you get gold for them ?

Imagine player 1 and 2 are allies -
Player 1 : Spawns 10 thugs for 0 gold
Player 2 : Kills thungs for XX gold
?

Infinite gold

 

[Kiko17955]

Bug : If you buy item with odd strenght ( 3 ), it counts as +1 dmg, that's alright because it's 1.5 dmg.
then you buy another item with odd strenght and it adds lower number too, but if you get both of them and you have for example 8 str, you only get +3 attack

 

[Wark]

you really need to make being a bandito and pvp profitable, like getting gold for enemy units killed. It really sucks when you get 0 gold for killing a thug

Yup, and that's why I am adding a bandit techtree. Thugs, however, are meant to be worker fodder that award nothing. All they do is take up food.
Expect the following for the bandit techtree:
- no barn
- techtree has a tower
- can sell your items to "hideouts"
- permanently at -500 reputation
- enemies to everyone
- increased experience rates
- decreased unit options
- more focus on espionage

My idea is to give you the option to go "bandit" when you choose your tier 2 structure:
racial inn, or hide out
Banditry will also be once you are defeated.

Right now, I am also working on an improved diplomacy system and plan to release the bandit techtree with that system.
How do you think muskets are overpowered?

@Kiko,
I know about that strength bug. Unfortunately I can't do anything to fix that.

 

[Saito]

Thugs cost 0 gold, why would you get gold for them ?

Imagine player 1 and 2 are allies -
Player 1 : Spawns 10 thugs for 0 gold
Player 2 : Kills thungs for XX gold
?

Infinite gold

There's a lot of ways to get infinite gold more effectively. Getting a really small amount of gold for killing enemy units with quite decent creation time is not one of them. Eg. per one pig you get 425 gold more than you pay for it. If a player is not able to get gold in this way, they really should either get more gold for killing, destroying buildings and so or be able to steal player's gold. As for now raiding enemies both in early and mid game is pointless.


And about the bandits: Let them ally with other bandits, please.

 

[Wark]

And about the bandits: Let them ally with other bandits, please.

I was thinking about making them automatically just become enemies if you "declare bandit," but later can change your alliances with diplomacy. I could make it so you're automatically allies to other bandits, but without shared vision.

 

[Peaces]

What is the change for the quick update?

 

[monkeyboy15]

still need to try this update.... blaaarrrgggg

 

[Wark]

What is the change for the quick update?

No change, just adding the deadline for the next update: Sept. 5.
This is still just v1.02, with the tent problem.

 

[Ardenaso]

Since it's Northrend can we make the NPCs Argent Dawn based? I'd also like to see Scarlet Crusade, Old God, Blue Dragonflight and Scourge dungeons

 

[monkeyboy15]

Since it's Northrend can we make the NPCs Argent Dawn based? I'd also like to see Scarlet Crusade, Old God, Blue Dragonflight and Scourge dungeons

Wark said this

As for the universe, I simply want to make my own lore, but with Warcraft creatures and races. It is not related at all to the original timelines.