Look what I found at Wikipedia...DotA Allstars!

[DurotarLord]

lol i just re-read the title of this post and realized we are so off topic its not even funny.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes because there are no orcs featured in The Hobbit. The Orcs are specifically from Mordor and later Isengard, and if they're found anywhere else it's there because they're on a mission for their master. The only Goblins featured in LOTR were those in the Mines of Moria, and look at that, the mines of Moria just happen to be located within the Misty Mountains.

 

[DurotarLord]

soooo... are we saying there ARE or ARENT goblins and orcs in the LOTR and that each was a different race?

 

[Shados]

Jesus Christ, goblins and orcs (or orks, as Tolkien later prefered to write it) are the same thing! Go read up on this at wikipedia or another reliable source of information.

-*meow*

 

[Pyrite]

From what I know goblins are the smaller cousins of orks, but very close to the same breed. I have never read LOTR and only seen the three movies, but this is actually off the topic in an off topic thread...ironic.
DotA does not have very many (if any) orc/k s in it, as they are mostly elves, undead, humans and otherwordly creatures. Point is that IceFrog or whatever his name is doesn't really need to quote the use of common mythology, but probably should state that he took insperation from it.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes Goblins are a different BREED of orcs. Just like the Uruk Hai are a different BREED as well! That's all there is to it folks!

 

[ArcticInferno]

Oh. I see now.

 

[DurotarLord]

So let me see if i get this straight:
Goblins were bred by Sauran (Since he created the orcs)
Orcs are well... orcs...
Uruk Hai are another breed of orcs (which we all know and agree with).

So then... wat was in the Misty mountains during the hobit? as i said orcs of the time couldnt enter into the light. are goblins just a breed of orc that can enter into light even before Sauran had bred the Uruk Hai? and if a goblins a different breed of orc then its not really an orc is it? wasnt that wat i was saying?!

 

[Shados]

Umm, I don't actually remember the Hobbit's goblins entering the sunlight. I thought they didn't chase Bilbo when he escaped the mountains because it was sunny outside...

-*meow*

 

[DurotarLord]

He escaped cause he was wearing the ring. I just read it the other day and they saw his shadow (cause u give off a shadow in broad daylight with the ring on) and they ran outside after him but they couldnt find him. (i think. im very very very certain)

 

[brad.dude03]

I have The Hobbit sitting around on my desk because of my TD. Here's the exact passage:
To clarify that the sun is INDEED out:
"The sun came out from behind a cloud and shone bright on the outside of the door-", The Hobbit, Page 100.

To clarify that the cratures in the Misty Mountains are GOBLINS:
"The place was full of goblins running about", The Hobbit, Page 100

The sun thing:
"Of course they soon came down after him, hooting and hallooing, and hunting among the trees. But they don't like the sun: it makes their legs wobble and their heads giddy", The Hobbit, Page 100.

And of course there's no way they would be able to fight in a battle with a condition like that, so that's why it is generally said that Orcs and Goblins cannot go out into the sun, with the exception of the special breed of Uruk Hai (Orc and Human blood make the Uruks stronger, larger and immune from the sun).

 

[Postel]

i got question to stoling things from other maps.
I like one system in some map which is called hero crafting or something like that. I have made the same system on my own. I have never saw the triggers in hero crafting because that map is protected. Would i steal that system if i would use it in my map?

 

[brad.dude03]

Of course not, everything you can do in the WE is available to anyone. If you, say, stole the name of a character in the story of someones map, well perhaps that would be different (unless its a common name, ie bob or something).

 

[DurotarLord]

to the best of my knowledge, sun kills orcs, goblins just dont like it but can go into it. besides it doesnt matter, we already agreed goblins are a different breed of orc, but true goblins, the goblins Tolkien based the orc on, are not orcs.

BTW, if u make ur own system based on another map its not stealing, if u just download (or rip it from the map itself) it and then dont give credit it is.

 

[Shadow_Fox]

to the best of my knowledge, sun kills orcs, goblins just dont like it but can go into it.

Think you got it mixed up, i think orcs don't like sun, but can go into it, and goblins can't, though it dosen't matter.....

 

[brad.dude03]

I don't think it is ever stated, but it is guessed that Orcs will suffer fatal? injuries if out in the sun for prolonged periods of time. This is why the Morgul orcs had to turn back in the Two Towers while the Uruks kept on running. And Goblins are absolutely not seperate from Orcs, they are just a different bloody breed. While Orcs are typically the servants of Sauron and Morgoth, Goblins are, like the Urk Hai, an offshoot of Orcs making them a different breed.

 

[DurotarLord]

ok watever, if it will end this retarded arguement i conceide that ur right.

EDIT: but im still right since i just said there not the same thing and u just said there different breeds.

 

[ArcticInferno]

No. They all just don't like light, Uruk Hai did not die at the battle of helms deep when gandalf arrived and shone his istari light(Yes they turned back). Orcs or Goblins(were they there?) at Minas Tirith didn't die when Theoden and his Rohirim(along with the sun) arrived either.

 

[Pyrite]

i got question to stoling things from other maps.
I like one system in some map which is called hero crafting or something like that. I have made the same system on my own. I have never saw the triggers in hero crafting because that map is protected. Would i steal that system if i would use it in my map?

Simply Say "Inspired from <insert map name here>." That should clear up any 'copyright' issues.

As for Orcs, goblins and what-nots, who says Orc/ks were invented in the LOTR trillogy or The Hobbit, the main Orc/ks I know are from Warhammer 40k, WC3 and assorted books and movies.

 

[DurotarLord]

LOTR did invent orcs. orcs have been around for a lot longer than warhammer and wc3. the LOTR was the very first time orcs were ever in a book (and yes, that is a fact mind you), but they were based on goblins.

 

[brad.dude03]

THE URUK HAI ARE NOT AFFECTED BY LIGHT. WHAT DON'T YOU NOOBS GET ABOUT THIS? The light from Gandalf's staff turned away all of them, because it wss POWERFUL not because it was bloody light! GOBLINS NEVER LEAVE THE MISTY MOUNTAINS UNLESS IT'S SOMETHING BIG. At Minas Tirith you will notice that the Sun along with the Rohirim managed to crush any ounce of bloodlust remaining in them. Notice that the orcs WEREN'T OUT IN THE SUN FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME? YEAH, THEY RETREATED BECAUSE THE SUN, ALONG WITHT HE ROHIRIM IS THE SIGN OF HOPE FOR THE GOOD GUYS. LOOK AT THAT. End of fucking story, dudes.

 

[DurotarLord]

Edited (Increasing length to over 10 characters)

 

[brad.dude03]

No, no, I think me and you already settled Durotarlord. That was in response to ArcticInferno trying to confuse us all lol. Anyway, goblins are DIFFERENT from Orcs in the same sense that Uruks are as they are a different BREED, so they will have some different characteristics and some similar characteristics.

 

[DurotarLord]

gotcha, ok cool.

 

[ArcticInferno]

Sorry I confused you guys. I'm no Tolkein fan lol.

 

[Pyrite]

Ah I see. I knew LOTR has been around longer then 40k and WC3, but those are the places I've heard of orcs.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes as with elves as well, orks (Thats what they were called back then) have existed since before tolkiens time, and he decided to use them. The Ents were the only true invention of his I think. Well, in terms of races anyway. I always thought it was neat how you can see where he took Gandalf from norse mythology

 

[DurotarLord]

Actually elves were around before Tolkien, and i think ents were to. BUT he invented orcs (he named them orcs, although there were many misspellings in the original LOTR because of some idiot publisher that changed words from stuff like Elvish to Elfish, and Dwarven to Dwarfen, and stuff like that. Tolkien soon insisted that all the words were changed to the original spelling).

As i said, i took a literature class and we studied the Lord of the Rings. One of the things we learned was that Tolkien invented the orc. But i dont think he invented the ent.

 

[Oblivion]

ArcticInferno:
By the same token, a lot of games have "stolen" ideas from mythology as well as recent authors. For example, you see "mithril" in a lot of games... it was originally devised by J.R.R. Tolkein (LOTR). Does that mean all the game designers "stole" the idea? No. They simply used the idea as a basis and inspiration for their own work.

I'm not saying IceFrog did or did not copy things, I'm just saying that one can gather ideas and inspirations from other sources without "Stealing". In fact, it could be seen as a complement to the original sources.

Speaking of the article you quoted... "Sange" really means "dying a glorious death". It's Japanese. Phantasy Star didn't make it up...they "stole" it from the Japanese language. See how it works?

 

[ArcticInferno]

Ok, I'm a DotA lover myself. Just that, the concept was kinda stolen. Argh it's my fault. I felt that way once. Ok, he didnt steal. Lol.

 

[DurotarLord]

what he stole were the models and spells from wc3sear.ch, although that wanst icefrog but the creator before him. He used those models and spells without giving credit. All icefrog did was say "Various resaurces used from www.wc3sear.ch" which is really all he can do since the guy before him stole so many resaurces it would take icefrog months to find them all. Plus, you can't blame icefrog for "stealing" anything, since all hes doing is updating someone elses map...

 

[ArcticInferno]

Yes, it lies with guinsoo. Can I close this thread?

 

[Shados]

And in any case, "Various resaurces used from www.wc3sear.ch", is giving credit, just not on such a personal scale as many prefer.

Yes, it lies with guinsoo. Can I close this thread?

Do you have the power to close the thread?

-*meow*

 

[ArcticInferno]

No...Havent tried closing one before.

 

[Shados]

There's your answer then ^^.

-*meow*

 

[brad.dude03]

Only admins and moderators of that subforum can lock threads.

 

[DurotarLord]

Personnaly speaking, im the kind of guy that would credit people for models, skins and third party programs and thats it. The reason being:
1. I dont use anything other than models, skins, icons and third party programs.
2. I dont credit icons because, if im going to use them which i rarely do, i use to many to give credits to everyone! instead ill just get them all from one source and say "Special thanks to all the artists at (Watever location) for the icons used in this map".
3. I credit skins and models because they take a lot more effort than icons do (since most of the icons i use are converted from another game).
4. Third party program makers deserve credit because i only use 1 or 2 in a map (like Vexorian's map optimizer and Widgetizer) and they take so much work.

I would credit every individual if i could, but like i said i typically use way to many icons to credit the author. If its an icon pack or something then i probably will credit the creator.

 

[Pyrite]

It's too difficult to credit every specific thing, so like the movies: your best bet is to group the artists in different catagories such as icons, skins etc.

 

[Freakazoid]

Do you know what Allstars means ?

 

[brad.dude03]

Once again, PLEASE READ THE DATES ON THESE THREADS BEFORE POSTING IN THEM. You're dragging ancient threads back to the top tha have long been abandoned. Lock please.

 

[ArcticInferno]

I so agree.

 

[l33t5up4h4x0r]

I think i saw somewhere in the model files that blizz refered to treants as "ents" in the resources hahaha

 

[killaziller]

Meh, I've despised a lot of people who steal a lot of these things and base things off of them. People tend to look up to these things and begin to see them as a type of idol.

As a roleplayer, I myself along with many others have completely original ideas not based off of any folklore nor other people's ideas, but from straight from the mind.

You also need to understand, 99% of the people in the world are greatly influenced by many things such as these and base their actions off of them. If you find a $1,000,000 and a $5 bill behind you, which are you going to take, the bigger amount, or a $5 bill just to look different from other people and brag that you didn't take a large amount of cash in front of you?

 

[ChadD]

Dota is the most overplayed game I have ever seen. Sure it's good, but overplayed? holy shit.

 

[SeaGull1723]

So I can't get inspiration to make a godamn novel?