Lobster Isle v1.2

[Moderator]

18:36, 10th Dec 2015

StoPCampinGn00b: Map set to needs fix based off of Shar Dundred's vote. Once you update it, it will be set back to pending.

18:13, 19th Feb 2016

Remixer: The map has appropriate melee terrain: nice tile variation and balance. Only things that popped up are the fact that there's no usage of dark grass (which would fit with the thick grass) and the night elven houses do not really fit very well the ancient ruins but it's acceptable. Shallow water areas could also use some height variation, especially the borders so the edge of the map isn't as sharp. Also, some trees are a bit too much in the water, you might want to raise the terrain up a little. The amount of decorative doodads and indestructible walls could be higher but current state is acceptable.

Gameplay-wise the terrain seems to be balanced. Every player has same resources and the bases are of fitting size. Not as many trees are required and the bases could be more decorated but currently it represents more of a classic melee map. The middle expansion gold mines are pretty near each other but it's acceptable for there are 4 other expansion gold mines as well, so the middle are isn't as "efficient" as the more protected ones (try to check their sizes and balance it a little, some are a bit smaller than the others). The creeps around the fountains need be placed further away from the fountains or set off from "camp". Currently units can benefit bonuses of fountains without fighting the creeps. (North-eastern mana fountain should have less trees on < side and more on > side (for sake of balance)).

The creep camps are functional. Some improvement could be done: some creeps are facing odd directions (check the expansion gold mines > and ^ and v border). Also, some creep camps might have too many races mixed: turtles, crabs and lobsters; revenants, sea giants and turtles. Item drops seem correct (middle drop could be better) and overall they seem balanced and fair. There's also a decent amount of critters around the map and it adds the mood.

Approving the map with 3/5 rating. The map is a nice sunken ruins melee map with a enjoyable atmosphere and balance.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Please improve the description of your map (also counts for the other one).
This thread should help you do it.

I downloaded the map and it looked quite nice, but I didn't give it a more detailed check yet, so I cannot give a review yet.
I'll post a detailed review later. Feel free to update your description in the meanwhile.

Also, are you the author of the map? The name of the creator differs from your own.

 

[Strajder]

I will update the description, sorry. My friend from the Battle.net forums pointed me to this site. I had the two maps uploaded on another site, "Epic war", in 2009, and decided to also upload them here.

Yes, I am the author of the maps. One of them (this one) has the latin version of my nickname (Strajder) next to the pseudo-cyrillic Ctpajgep. I created them long before 2009, just haven't published them at the time.

 

[deepstrasz]

This looks like a classic WcIII melee map. It is however a bit more on the hardcore side especially with creeps being almost all over the place plus strong ones guarding mines.

The cvasibad:
-there needs more work to be done in what the items that creeps drop is concerned. For instance the Warsong Battle Drums (very powerful later in game and ruins the usage of Kodo Beasts), Khadgar's Gem of Health, the Crown of Kings, Cloak of Flames (ruins the usage of Immolation) are quite an advantage. They should not fall randomly from creeps but be in the Marketplace or something
-the Marketplace is mostly useless. It does not sell interesting stuff (they're randomly generated; it's a gamble). It's not worth fighting the creeps for shopping but only for XP. An interesting thing would be for the Marketplace to only spawn items after all of its guardians are dead. This way no one can rush in there, buy and flee
-Rune of the Watcher is a bad idea because the Ward is invulnerable and does not expire. Change either the invulnerability property or make it expire
-try to make neutral undead units not sleep during the night (Revenant)

The nice:
-I like it that there are pieces of unreachable land as an advantage for the night elven Warden

It's really splendid to behold. More work on the balance and we're more than ready to go.

 

[Strajder]

-there needs more work to be done in what the items that creeps drop is concerned. For instance the Warsong Battle Drums (very powerful later in game and ruins the usage of Kodo Beasts), Khadgar's Gem of Health, the Crown of Kings, Cloak of Flames (ruins the usage of Immolation) are quite an advantage. They should not fall randomly from creeps but be in the Marketplace or something

Pasting this from response on the other map: "Haha, yeah, though it opens up an option not to have to use that hero just to get its advantage."

-the Marketplace is mostly useless. It does not sell interesting stuff (they're randomly generated; it's a gamble). It's not worth fighting the creeps for shopping but only for XP.

IIRC the Marketplace used to sell those and other powerful items at random in the patch which was current when I made the map.

An interesting thing would be for the Marketplace to only spawn items after all of its guardians are dead. This way no one can rush in there, buy and flee
-Rune of the Watcher is a bad idea because the Ward is invulnerable and does not expire. Change either the invulnerability property or make it expire
-try to make neutral undead units not sleep during the night (Revenant)

Pasting this from response on the other map: "I guess it would require changing the objects, making the map custom and not melee if memory serves."

The nice:
-I like it that there are pieces of unreachable land as an advantage for the night elven Warden

 

[Shar Dundred]

Map: Lobster Isle
Version: 1.10

Review
by Shar Dundred

Terrain

The water areas of the map are nicely designed, I like what you did there. The islands are a nice little addition, but the land areas could need more work. There's still a lack of doodads like flowers or stones and, while you used many tiles a nice way, some grass areas could need more of the dark grass tile. Furthermore, some islands still look too flat. You used the heigh tool pretty nicely in many ways, but this could use more work. 3/5

Creeps & Items

You got a nice placement of creeps, the groups were appropiate and balanced. You've reduced the number of powerful items by replacing them with weaker ones. This was a good decision and made the drops less OP. Some items or, as alternative, creeps could still need more work. The necrolytes at the gold mines next to the players' bases all drop a powerful level 6 item. Due to the fact that they themselves are only level 6 and the player gains a powerful item and a goldmine, you might want to either replace the items or replace the Stormreaver Necrolyte with a more powerful creep (i. e. Stormreaver Warlock). Also, there's still the thing with the tomes. Personally, I still advise you to replace the Tomes of Agility +2 with a random +2 tome. Still, you've replaced enough items to balance the map. 3/5

Map Layout

The map is perfectly symmetric and doesn't let any player have any advantage. The taverns and shops are reachable for everyone the very same way. Replacing the marketplace and the fountains with other buildings has made fighting the creeps in the center of the map more worthwile.

Overall

You have changed the map enough to get it approved, but I think it could still need some more work on it. However, you have put much work into this and got a nice creation here. 3/5 Vote for Approval!

 

[Strajder]

Thanks for the time to review the maps, just to link my other response here as it applies to this map as well: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/dragon-grove-273421/#post2765304

 

[Arrr]

Well, just gona tell what i dont like(balancewise) hopefully will help

First, the creeps are very likely to be aggroed, especially when giving across map orders,
but the most problematic ones are the green camps between starting position and expo

Then, the expo has only 1 one-way entrance, which is generally bad

The fountains are very abusable for creeping due to their position, especially with ranged units

Would avoid many hig tier items, expecially considering there is a marketplace in the map

Would add bit more wood on starting locations, especially for red and blue, which have less than the other players

 

[deepstrasz]

First, the creeps are very likely to be aggroed, especially when giving across map orders, but the most problematic ones are the green camps between starting position and expo

Well that's in the difficulty of the map. Use way points (SHIFT click).

Then, the expo has only 1 one-way entrance, which is generally bad

Not every map should be the same you know...

The fountains are very abusable for creeping due to their position, especially with ranged units

This is true. But then that would mean moving them somewhere far in the corners or edges of the map.

 

[Arrr]

@deepstrasz
so i should keep shifting rally points the whole game, and shift micro units so that on the way to base they don't randomly die to creeps?
I wouldn't call this more difficult, but rather annoying and silly when you actually play

Not every map should be the same you know...

there are some balance standards tho

But then that would mean moving them somewhere far in the corners or edges of the map.

Or switch them with the taverns.. who knows, no real solution to that

 

[Strajder]

@deepstrasz
so i should keep shifting rally points the whole game, and shift micro units so that on the way to base they don't randomly die to creeps?
I wouldn't call this more difficult, but rather annoying and silly when you actually play

Not taking care of reinforcements (just rallying them blindly to their doom) is considered bad play in StarCraft II. There are no creeps there, but skilled players can take advantage of this auto-rallying, especially in team games, to cut off opponent's reinforcements mid-route.

there are some balance standards tho

I might add some expansion entrances, but the initial intention was to have secluded expansions in those spots. Better yet, I think I'll just thin the back "walls" of those expansions so they can be easily opened with siege units or tree-destroying abilities.

Or switch them with the taverns.. who knows, no real solution to that

I intend to juggle the fountains and marketplace a bit. I'm most likely going to put fountains of mana instead of health, and a fountain of health instead of marketplace.

 

[Strajder]

I updated the map to version 1.1. I hope the file naming differing from the "title" here is ok? If not, I can change it.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Review updated.

 

[Strajder]

I updated the map. Wow, those turtles really did drop Tome of Agility +2! I really have no idea what was I thinking when I put that drop. Anyway, it is fixed now.

 

[Remixer]

Map has been Approved with rating of 3/5.

I updated the map to version 1.1. I hope the file naming differing from the "title" here is ok? If not, I can change it.

The file name for melee maps is usually "(amount of players)Nameofthemap" so for example "(2)TurtleRock" the name in Warcraft III should be "Turtle Rock" without any versions or amount of players included.

 

[Map Designer]

the screenies names are funny xD