KTA - Lags and similar problems

[Spinel]

Hello Hiveworkshop,

I am Spinel of Brigandshaven, member of Kalimdor: the Aftermaths development team. We have encountered problem of lags in multiplayer games (during the battles with a lot of units (cca 70+)) and we dont know what it causes.
We are not useing any crazy HD models or effects, its not tied to any trigger and the spells seem also fine.
Sadly, i am more of a designer then an editor expert and we have basicaly run out of ideas for possible solution. Especialy now, when the main editor (Marshmalo) took a break.
Is here anyone, who would be willing to help us solve this problem? I can give you more info anytime… there are also a livecast videos on youtube and we can arange the forum game of KTAs comunity.
Please help us…

Sincerely,
Spiny for the KTAs development team



P.S.:
I am sry if i posted this in the wrong section of forum... i do not post on Hive very often.

 

[A]mun]

It's the right section btw and on your problem:

The map runs with 60 fps without clashing armies? Can you post a screenshot with fps displayed during such a slowdown?

 

[Spinel]

Sadly i am unable to play it... but there are youtube videos, that shows these lags.

I asked few people about checking the fps but it may take a while.

This is the best representation of lags. They begin in 53 mins of video.

 

[A]mun]

But those are way more than 70 units and the camera is also higher, so more units need to be rendered. Then there are several special effects.
I'm pretty sure you can't avoid that.

You could try to lower the maximum camera distance.

However, it's curious that the lag doesn't seem as bad around 24 and 29 minutes in.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Make map smaller, reduce unit numbers, remove all trigger leaks, etc.

The poor performance is the result of pushing the WC3 engine outside of what it is capable of efficiently.

 

[OnyxTheDark]

Make map smaller at this stage of editing is kind of impossible though
Limit units to 200 instead of 300 should help indeed, but even with this I'm pretty there will still be laggs
About trigger leaks, well nothing that I can help, but I'll try to get a screenshot with frame
If if I can fix my computer ....
Grimm here by the way

 

[Dr Super Good]

Make map smaller at this stage of editing is kind of impossible though

This is why I always advise against mappers using such large maps. Early on during development one can adjust for a smaller map but later on one cannot.

Limit units to 200 instead of 300 should help indeed, but even with this I'm pretty there will still be laggs

Limit to 200, or even 100. Instead of lots of small trash units late game, give a few more powerful elite units.

About trigger leaks, well nothing that I can help, but I'll try to get a screenshot with frame

Some GUI actions leak handle indices due to the local declared local handle variable reference counter leak on return bug. Using JASS directly can achieve the same functionality without the leak.

Use doodads instead of destructables where possible. Some people claim that destructables are more resource intensive.

Optimize any trigger that iterates through a lot of units. For example instead of an income system iterating through all units on the map to find income structures, track the income structures in their own unit group on creation/destruction so one only has to iterate through the income structures and not all other unrelated units.

 

[Spinel]

But those are way more than 70 units and the camera is also higher, so more units need to be rendered. Then there are several special effects.
I'm pretty sure you can't avoid that.

You could try to lower the maximum camera distance.

However, it's curious that the lag doesn't seem as bad around 24 and 29 minutes in.

We know that lags can be lowered by fewer doodads and camera distance but that does not explain why LTA/LTF, much bigger map with more doodads and more detailed models is not lagging at all.
That s the problem, unpredictability of it. I am analyst and i tried to find the problem but there is no clear reson for it, to my knowledge.

Make map smaller, reduce unit numbers, remove all trigger leaks, etc.

The poor performance is the result of pushing the WC3 engine outside of what it is capable of efficiently.

Yes, we will do it. Limit will be lowered to 200 and some doodads will be removed, that i the simplest thing i can do.

Make map smaller at this stage of editing is kind of impossible though
Limit units to 200 instead of 300 should help indeed, but even with this I'm pretty there will still be laggs
About trigger leaks, well nothing that I can help, but I'll try to get a screenshot with frame
If if I can fix my computer ....
Grimm here by the way

TThx a lot )

This is why I always advise against mappers using such large maps. Early on during development one can adjust for a smaller map but later on one cannot.


Limit to 200, or even 100. Instead of lots of small trash units late game, give a few more powerful elite units.


Some GUI actions leak handle indices due to the local declared local handle variable reference counter leak on return bug. Using JASS directly can achieve the same functionality without the leak.

Use doodads instead of destructables where possible. Some people claim that destructables are more resource intensive.

Optimize any trigger that iterates through a lot of units. For example instead of an income system iterating through all units on the map to find income structures, track the income structures in their own unit group on creation/destruction so one only has to iterate through the income structures and not all other unrelated units.

This is spin-off to LTA. Map that is bigger and much more complex at this point.
Limit will be lowered for sure.
A trigger expert checked my map and there are not memory leaks and no real problems tied to triggers at all.... which is kinda shame. ( We would know what to do.
Thats amazing idea, i will check it. There are a lot of destructibles, especialy on Broken isles, thx a lot for tip.
I am not that experienced with triggers, but i will discuss the income with team, thx for tip too