Forbidden Islands

[MrStormyZ]

It's a new map alright but at first glance anyone would call it Northern Isles

 

[Deserted]

It's a new map alright but at first glance anyone would call it Northern Isles

Why? The only common feature = starting locations on 2 and 8.
But noted, maybe I'll mirror the map later.

 

[Master Zul'khan]

I think ya have put too much Neutral Buildin' for a small map, mon.

 

[MrStormyZ]

Why? The only common feature = starting locations on 2 and 8.
But noted, maybe I'll mirror the map later.

I don't think that would be needed just saying
gonna try it out with my bois later

 

[WolfFarkas]

this is a very good map

sugestions for more quality:

A) mirrow all the terrain and wood, those expandings are not equal.
B) remove the dragon roost from there, center must be safe and clean. Never use dragon roost in 1v1.
C) southern merc. camp, should be more near, to avoid walking and dead end area.
D) Again mirrow terrain, since merc. camps areas are not equal, map simetry should always be perfect or near perfect.
E) Since there is a straigth path between gob. shops, change their faicing access, nothing important, but it may add some fun to the map. is to increase the walking distance a bit between shops.

 

[mafe]

So, it's a good map, and while the tiliset and starting positions indeed are reminiscent of Nothern Isles, in practice the map will be very different.
Creeps and items are good. There are a few things which I think will not work out on a competitive level though:
1. Minor asymmetry: For me a big earlygame difference between the starting positions is that at the blue location, you can do AoW-creeping at the labs with the AoW being in your base, while at red, you have to build it south of the camp or you willl lose time to consume trees.
2. In a similar manner, militia-creeping this camp will be quicker for blue than for red.
3. This camp gives an instant level 2 and I'm not sure if the timings will allow for the opponent to be there in time to harass you before the camp is killed completely. This kinda nerfs harassing as a strategy.
4. The wolve-expansion: They will attack units by accident. Also, they might be too easy to defend, as the opponent can only attack from a rather narrow angle.
5. Dragons: Generally a no-no for serious 1v1, and frost dragons are even the most imba dragons of them all. I predict that the player to get the first lvl 10 dragon will be almost assured to win the game.
6. Not sure what to make of the itemdrops in the center. I cant point out an obvious problem with them, but they might just be too strong.
7. And it might also happen that units accidentially walk past those creeps.

So, maybe consider changing the middle. If you really want to keep the dragon roost, having two of them might be better.

Anyway, map Approved.

 

[Deserted]

Map updated.

Thank you for your feedback.

I think ya have put too much Neutral Buildin' for a small map, mon.

Actually, this map is pretty big for a 1v1 map. I would've called it too big, if it was using all 112x90 tiles.

4. The wolve-expansion: They will attack units by accident. Also, they might be too easy to defend, as the opponent can only attack from a rather narrow angle.

A) mirrow all the terrain and wood, those expandings are not equal.

Expansions adjusted. Now they are more similar, also more open and the gold mine cotains only 9k gold (from 10k).

E) Since there is a straigth path between gob. shops, change their faicing access, nothing important, but it may add some fun to the map. is to increase the walking distance a bit between shops.

Good suggestion! I've changed facing slightly. As the middle still conains a point of interest, this should be optimal.

C) southern merc. camp, should be more near, to avoid walking and dead end area.
D) Again mirrow terrain, since merc. camps areas are not equal, map simetry should always be perfect or near perfect.

I've adjusted southern MercCamp, but I disagree: terrain mirroring isn't a must.

1. Minor asymmetry: For me a big earlygame difference between the starting positions is that at the blue location, you can do AoW-creeping at the labs with the AoW being in your base, while at red, you have to build it south of the camp or you willl lose time to consume trees.
2. In a similar manner, militia-creeping this camp will be quicker for blue than for red.
3. This camp gives an instant level 2 and I'm not sure if the timings will allow for the opponent to be there in time to harass you before the camp is killed completely. This kinda nerfs harassing as a strategy.

Now both players are equal in this regard.
I've replaced one of the trappers with High Priest. With Frost Armor this creep camp requires much more time.

5. Dragons: Generally a no-no for serious 1v1, and frost dragons are even the most imba dragons of them all. I predict that the player to get the first lvl 10 dragon will be almost assured to win the game.

B) remove the dragon roost from there, center must be safe and clean. Never use dragon roost in 1v1.

Y, lvl10 dragon's timer is too short.

6. Not sure what to make of the itemdrops in the center. I cant point out an obvious problem with them, but they might just be too strong.

I decided to replace this camp with 2 weaker ones, that drop lvl5 perma item.

 

[WolfFarkas]

@Deserted

"I've adjusted southern MercCamp, but I disagree: terrain mirroring isn't a must."
no, is not a must, but you can be 100% sure is equal, you can make it with hand but takes + time.
(common bug is AOW spots are not equal for player 1 and player 2, pum NE veto,), with mirrow, you can sleep safe.

my complain was that wood places was clearly different.

 

[Deserted]

1) Well, now treelines at wolf-expansion are different by 3 trees, I think that's not important in terms of balance.

2) Trees near the green troll camp are mirrored, they are exactly the same.

3) Trees near MercCamps are clearly different, but both spots provide trees for Keeper/Wisps and buildable space so every race can construct a building next to MercCamp. AOW-creeping at both cases is technically possible, but not a good idea, really.

 

[WolfFarkas]

1) Well, now treelines at wolf-expansion are different by 3 trees, I think that's not important in terms of balance.

2) Trees near the green troll camp are mirrored, they are exactly the same.

3) Trees near MercCamps are clearly different, but both spots provide trees for Keeper/Wisps and buildable space so every race can construct a building next to MercCamp. AOW-creeping at both cases is technically possible, but not a good idea, really.

of course of course 3 trees wont be notice, I just pointed that before at the begining in corners, trees shapes was different
is a minor thing, but is nice to have the map with simetry.

 

[Nudl9]

Map looks dope.
I feel the safe expansions could be a bit more spacious.
You seem to make the maps a little tight.

I don't agree with the opinion on removing the roost, i think it's nice to have a map featuring a roost.
I don't know about the balance of it, but it fills a niche at the very least.
If someone goes "Yo do you have that map with the roost?", then there's a map for it at the very least.
Maybe the roost type could be changed for a more vanilla one without frost breath, like red or black.
To match the new color on the roost you could change the trees for a dead type (black) or have some towers or farms on fire (red)

The level 10 dragon isn't that big of a deal btw since it's available pretty late.
It also has a very steep price and food cap and will get shredded within seconds if you have anti air or ensnare.
But if you have a good timing by when the level 6 dragon is available that's where the balance becomes an issue.

Some other things worth mentioning:
Safe expand needs some form of anti-air.
Level 10 dragons have some exploit concerning Hex, maybe swap that one creep out.

I would replace mercenary camp type with a summer one.
Melee players mostly like standard stuff that they are familiar with.
Too many unfamiliar elements is disorienting for determining the strength of something.
The way i see it your map's whole theme is centered around the dragon roost.
So if you just make everything else "boring normal" stuff then it wouldn't come off as too unconventional by tournament standards.

 

[Deserted]

The level 10 dragon isn't that big of a deal btw since it's available pretty late.

It's availibile 15 minutes into the game, and half of the games go past 15 min: W3Champions

It's presence would force players to have some heavy anti-air, which could make too strong of an impact on strategies, forcing player to go off meta.

But dragons will return ^_^

I would replace mercenary camp type with a summer one.

Since I've decded to pass on dragons, I think unussual MercCamp fits here.

 

[Nudl9]

Well if you're reading into the metric, the bell curve is around 13-15 minutes, which means most games are already "over" by that point.
So what you can do is just design your map around short games that enable offense and use dragon roost as deus ex machina mechanic.

Well i just wanted to clear the misconceptions around dragons.
In Warcraft Royale, which is share similarities with regular warcraft, the level 10 dragons usually weren't that powerful.
It had to do with how inaccessible they were most of the time.
The second factor was the cost, you simply won't have the gold required when spending it all the time and saving gold opens up a window of opportunity for the enemy.
The third factor was that buying the dragon meant that you had to sacrifice food for in favor of a well composed army.
Which meant that the level 6 dragons were way better since they were available earlier and cheaper to buy.