DotA, and it's influence

[frostloh]

I created this thread to see what Hive users have to say on this topic. Please don't get mad, as this is only my opinion, and I am not trying to stuff my thoughts down your throat.

The Clones (Mostly bad impression)

My Opinion

Great concept, and really balanced map! I really needed more DotA clones because I couldn't get enough of the original! To all ( insert DotA hero name ) Wars makers, please keep up the great work until I finally get a chance to see Roshan Wars! Oh wait...there's already one . In that case, I'll be waiting for Ghoul Wars, Necromancer Wars or...the long awaited and epic Fountain Wars!

Every time I see a map called Techies Wars, Mirana Wars, SF Wars or the like, I have to resist an extremely strong compulsion to post the above on it, with sarcasm tags. Just about every popular DotA hero has been used to make a map like this. In fact, there are even "hybrids" ( go look up Pudge vs Mirana on epicwar ).

Pudge Wars is the only one I like, as the creator actually spent time making it fun instead of lumping on 6 items, the namesake hero of the map and calling it a day.

The Games ( Okay...I guess )

Now I'm going to list out 2 games that are DotA-inspired, and make a comparison between them. Just my two cents, don't get mad over my opinion.

The HoN and LoL versions I'm using in this comparison are the Garena versions of the games.

League of Legends VS DotA:

[+]
- Adds more depth to traditional DotA with the runes and "talent trees"
- Large variety of champions
- Is fun overall
- Good for DotA lovers wanting to try something new
- Playing vs AI in matches helps you to "learn2play" before going up versus players

[=]
- Is based on a Free to Play model in Garena. This means more players and a larger community...unfortunately, F2P is riddled with scum ( griefers, flamers, trolls, leavers etc. )

[-]
- Community is NOT helpful. I got flamed on dying in most of the matches I played. Yeah, that'll attract new players to this genre of games all right...my experience felt like I ordered beef steak in a crowded vegetarian restaurant, with people inevitably screaming OMG KS, OMG FEEDER, OMG YOUR MUM IS S2PID and all the variations in any game I get into.

Heroes of Newerth VS League of Legends

[+]
-Better graphics

[-]
- Community is even worse. Most players regularly spout unintelligible gibberish in their native slang, grammar is nonexistent, leavers abound, you get flamed by the entire room for the slightest mistake, people hate you for using their favourite hero...the list is VERY long, and I don't have the patience to finish it.
- Most heroes are direct ripoffs of their DotA counterparts.
- Very annoying restrictions on picking heroes that made me go back to DotA and LoL. Of course, you could spend cash on unlocking the heroes...but what's the point? Playing a game of HoN makes me feel disappointed and angry at the playerbase anyway.
- Weird marketing strategy. Making players buy the game for cash, making it F2P, then introducing a Cash Shop and Pay to Unlock heroes. Really weird.

That's all for now...

 

[Orcnet]

I have to agree with the first topic about those hero rip offs, because we all know their is a command in DotA where you can just tick same hero and you can use all of those shit in that map instead of making it worse with others.

second, I don't. Dota, LOL, and HON and the incoming Dota 2 are all the same because icefrog made them and I don't think competing them about the gameplay, graphics, heroes, etc would be necessary. its like your disliking coffee over chocolate but you didn't know that they bought have caffeine.

that's for now

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

second, I don't. Dota, LOL, and HON and the incoming Dota 2 are all the same because icefrog made them and I don't think competing them about the gameplay, graphics, heroes, etc would be necessary.

Dota 2 is developed by Valve in conjunction with Icefrog
LoL is made by Riots studios and HoN is made by S2 studios

So no, that's not accurate.

Besides, they're all basically ripoffs of a formula set by past games like Aeon of Strife, and probably some game before that that inspired that, so no they're not all similar because they're made by the same person but because the formula works, sort of like how all Racing games involve the same basic principals (getting from some sort of start to some sort of end faster or /better/ then everyone else).

 

[Ramza]

So what exactly are we talking about here? Dota's influence? Your opinion?

 

[Nudl9]

Besides, they're all basically ripoffs of a formula set by past games like Aeon of Strife, and probably some game before that that inspired that, so no they're not all similar because they're made by the same person but because the formula works, sort of like how all Racing games involve the same basic principals (getting from some sort of start to some sort of end faster or /better/ then everyone else).

There will probably be alot more rip-offs to come too, all based on the heroes rather than trying new concepts. I think we've yet to see a more siege orientated AoS game, similiar to EotA or ToB. Or distinctive gameplay like AoM.

 

[Direfury]

If you think about it, DotA could've been a good thing for the creative side of the WC3 community. I tested it out, and saw that, one, it was rather bland overall, though the gameplay was decent, and two, there were many, many areas in need of improvement.

Many of the less creative, or less talented mapmakers would try to ride DotA's success by attempting to make their own, leaving the rest to come up with new ideas. Just aswell, some modellers and skinners have taken to making decent hero models in the hopes of having them added in. Of course, there's all that crap about most of the models being stolen, but that's beside the point.

In any case, it doesn't have a very good influence on the WC3 community as a whole, but atleast it gives us something to shoot for. I'm pretty sure a good number of mappers have thought, atleast once, "Is it better than DotA?".

 

[Miss_Foxy]

And they tend to not credit the original creator of the AoS map in Starcraft, so yeah, Warcraft III/Blizzard Games are practically awesome since they have players who produce games that tend to be rather popular.

 

[Nudl9]

@Miss_Foxy: Nobody knows who the creator is and nobody actually gives a fuck. The original AoS isn't anything like DotA anyway or any ripoff for that sake. It's not like nobody would have come up with the idea eventually anyway.

If you think about it, DotA could've been a good thing for the creative side of the WC3 community. I tested it out, and saw that, one, it was rather bland overall, though the gameplay was decent, and two, there were many, many areas in need of improvement.

The gameplay is anything out of the ordinary, which is why people like it. The game doesn't really need much improvement aside from the hero apartment.

Many of the less creative, or less talented mapmakers would try to ride DotA's success by attempting to make their own, leaving the rest to come up with new ideas.

I think you've got the wrong idea, people like the genre that's why they make AoS maps. There's been alot of great maps during the years.

Just aswell, some modellers and skinners have taken to making decent hero models in the hopes of having them added in. Of course, there's all that crap about most of the models being stolen, but that's beside the point.

The resources in the map are credited appropriately, but most come from the community itself. If you were to credit every single contribution the list would grow immensily; beta testers, coders, community contributions, resource material, etc

In any case, it doesn't have a very good influence on the WC3 community as a whole, but atleast it gives us something to shoot for. I'm pretty sure a good number of mappers have thought, atleast once, "Is it better than DotA?".

DotA's popularity is beyond WC3 itself, i hope you realise how many people actually play it. If anything DotA has kept the game alive way past it's lifespan.

 

[cboy123]

DotA's popularity is beyond WC3 itself, i hope you realise how many people actually play it. If anything DotA has kept the game alive way past it's lifespan.

Wonder how many people died with DOTA Addiction..........
Gotta make a Journal out of this one.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Although, I do have to admit that if Blizzard hadn't thought of the World Editor (Or any Editor, for that instance) for such a developed game at that time like Warcraft III, DotA wouldn't exist.

So yeah, I'm sure even if DotA takes off from the community, some others would still make great maps that could one day be like it as well, it's just a testimony of Blizzard's brilliant idea.

And I do actually believe that more players would make awesome maps with newer genres (Just see DotA/Civilization Wars/World of Starcraft) that have other companies trying to buy their makers over.

Warcraft III practically can't die as long as people continue to make newer maps and such.

Even developers/companies like Valve and Riot Gaming see the potential in creators of these mods in the World Editor. Blizzard can practically monopolize the gaming/modding industry if they know how to.

So yep, DotA would be an example of such a successful map, there are others waiting to become as successful, just that they would need DotA to take off first in order to be able to influence others.

 

[Direfury]

I think you've got the wrong idea, people like the genre that's why they make AoS maps. There's been alot of great maps during the years

Of course people like that genre, there's no question about that. I wasn't being specific, saying that all the bad maps are just copies of DotA, though many good maps, with atleast some noticeable similarities, used DotA, or atleast the related bits and pieces, as a benchmark.

The resources in the map are credited appropriately, but most come from the community itself. If you were to credit every single contribution the list would grow immensily; beta testers, coders, community contributions, resource material, etc

I don't try to keep up with news on DotA, since it really makes no difference to me, but I do remember HappyTauren, or whatever he goes by now, going off saying that they stole one of his models. I think it was the model they used for Leoric.

DotA's popularity is beyond WC3 itself, i hope you realise how many people actually play it. If anything DotA has kept the game alive way past it's lifespan.

Again, I wasn't talking about that. I was taking a different approach to it, in the purely creative side of the WC3 community, like the types who spend more time on the World Editor, than they do ingame.

Of course, I could be wrong, but there's still a silver lining somewhere.

 

[frostloh]

So what exactly are we talking about here? Dota's influence? Your opinion?

Both.

 

[Gilles]

@ Miss_Foxy, how much is Blizzard paying you to post here?

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Haha no she's just a very good optimist, being positive is good, though :> But it's not Blizzard paying her, if that were the case, she would be talking about WoW, D3 and SC2 as Blizzard have abandoned War3 pretty much, they focus on their new games and how Bnet 2 works with the 3 new games... it's indeed people who play war3 that give some activity to it. But nothing will bring it back to what it was back in the good ol' times, that's a funny fantasy.

like the types who spend more time on the World Editor, than they do ingame.

I really never understood this... Glad im not one of them.

 

[Direfury]

It's a creative thing. Think artists. They'd rather be painting on a canvas, instead of admiring the picture. Or similarly, a Minecraft player would prefer to build a complete replica of the White House, instead of wandering around the world.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

At least in War3 Dota you could type 'No Noobs/Idiots' as game name not blizzards idiot decision in Bnet 0.0000002 where all games autohosted and all sorts of feeders who die every minute join the game... at least less of these kind would join if there was a title 'no retards' but nooo Blizzard wants to not be bad with the poor little things and to remove any 'BAD' names in the hosts they had to do so. It's one thing to be bad, im also not good cause i dont care about this game but it's no fun mass leavers and feeders. At least game names had some effect like less would join than if there were 'Welcome everyone' type hosting.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

@Imtor
That's the exact sort of attitude that makes so many people hate the game, and why most games like it have piss-poor communities that make the games nearly unapproachable.

I hear LoL is a little better then the others when it comes to that, but relative to DotA pretty much any game's community is better...

 

[Gilles]

I hear LoL is a little better then the others when it comes to that, but relative to DotA pretty much any game's community is better...

Only because of the leveling system. You start at level 1 and are only matched against other low levels and usually it's pretty friendly. Once you hit 20+ people expect you to always be pro, and will usually flame you if you die a few too many times.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

@Imtor
That's the exact sort of attitude that makes so many people hate the game, and why most games like it have piss-poor communities that make the games nearly unapproachable.

Yeah because most CGers hate competing. I also hate when some Dotard on Sotis calls me names, knowing he's a No-Leaguer but at least staying in the game and contributing is fine unlike leaving at first death where the only measure is naming the game title so, to repulse those from entering in the first place.