Arthas' Journey 2 - The Village

[Moderator]

16:45, 29th Apr 2010
ap0calypse: Reejcted

 

[indomitable1319]

The next installment! Yay!!!!

 

[Septimus]

why don't you just compile everything into 1 single campaign, it would be much easier.

 

[indomitable1319]

Well, at first, I don't know why I did that. Second, I wanted to let the ones who were waiting for it play already.

 

[Septimus]

Arthas Journey 2 was an rpg style like map by Indomitable1319 that involves Arthas journey before the wc3 sequences.

To begin with, the terrain of the map was poorly done; but that doesn't mean it was really horrible. It was just lacking despite that it follow the wc3 style of terraining. The way the terrain was done was more towards maze style like (It was proven to be right especially when the forest area look exactly an maze like formation) and completely unnatural especially for the border of the map where the entire area seems to be surrounded by unnatural cliff.

For an rpg style like map with cliff surrounded the entire area even though the scenario isn't took place at dungeon, this was surely an bizzarre scene. I also notice you add a extremely huge amount of fire, this cause the specific scene to be laggy for poor performance computer. You even have a partial part of the map that are completely empty with nothing on it.

Next comes the gameplay, the beginning of the game should have an game text that indicate what is the mission objective. If you view any wc3 campaign, they would flash the quest log button and have a game text showing the quest title and mission objective. The same goes to the upcoming quest as well.

When a summon unit dies. It should not have a warning message to indicate a unit has fallen (After all, it was a summon unit that would surely die anyway when the duration has expired).

The same goes to the barracks as well, when unit enter the structure. You should have move the camera to the position of the unit to allowed us to know where it have gone.

Cinematic and quest execution was poorly done as well. When unit was close enough to the npc to trigger an quest, you should have pause the game right away and move all unit to the right position before execute the cinematic. The rich man npc look retarded as if he was talking to himself when my unit bypass it the moment the cinematic was triggered. You also cause it to bug when my unit bypass rich man npc and trigger an event where I need to rescue an unit.
However, the unit was long dead the moment the cinematic end due to this error of yours.

Another bug that was unacceptable was after retrieving the item. I cannot leave the place at all.

The balance was another issues as well. The beginning of the game was too easy due to the narrow route and Arthas ultimate ability being too inbalance and his attack was soo fast I could have sworn it was an machine gun rather than an hammer attack. Then all the sudden comes an tauren elite that are soo freaking inbalance that it killed footman in less than 4 hit that you could not even have enough time to heal it.

There is a bug and balance issues that need to be resolves, as for now it was 1/5 (Unacceptable).

 

[light bolt30]

Lol nice, next chapter. Maybe create a custom preview image.

 

[indomitable1319]

Childish

Wow. What a big blow, Septimus. That hurt me. If you read my custom user title, you'll see why everything is horrible for you. Look, I just started mapmaking, it's only my 2nd week making maps. You don't expect me to be good at this. And besides, I'm only twelve. I can't reach up to everyone's expectations.

Your comment on terrain - Wow, that was just saying like it was horrible, wasn't it?
Your comment on cliffs - Look, the player wouldn't see that unless they cheat.
Your comment on quest - I can just change that, cool off.
Your comment on death indicator - I couldn't find a trigger to do it
Your comment on barracks - I can just add a lock camera to unit trigger then turn it off immediately
Your comment on cinematic - The triggers I put on are... I'd guess, correct. But then, it doesn't cooperate.
Your comment on cant leave the house - WTF? Go to the edge of the area. Only Arthas can go in.
Your comment on Tauren Elite - Look, that's why most maps are strategy. Put in the village guard and arthas to tank or a knight.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY MAP MAKE YOUR OWN OKAY?!

@light bolt30 - Wow, FIRST positive comment. Thanks. I don't really want to add a custom preview image. Well, I added a custom loading screen to 1 in the campaign version.



I WILL NOT MAKE CHAPTER THREE ANYMORE.
I WILL ALSO QUIT MAPMAKING. I'M NOT ANY GOOD.

 

[Septimus]

Wow. What a big blow, Septimus. That hurt me. If you read my custom user title, you'll see why everything is horrible for you. Look, I just started mapmaking, it's only my 2nd week making maps. You don't expect me to be good at this.

It was because that you start mapping that I only gives you valuable advice. It was up to you to accept it and strieve harder to improve it.

And besides, I'm only twelve. I can't reach up to everyone's expectations.

Age are not the barrier. It was the matter of confidences and motivation. Of course, the will to learn as well.

Your comment on cliffs - Look, the player wouldn't see that unless they cheat.

You don't need to cheat to see the cliff. I could print the screenshot to prove my point and to let you have a look at it.

Your comment on death indicator - I couldn't find a trigger to do it

Set the condition that if the dying unit was summon unit, then ignore the action.

Your comment on cinematic - The triggers I put on are... I'd guess, correct. But then, it doesn't cooperate.

Not really. I recommend you to view some cinematic tutorial. 1 of the best cinematic tutorial was by anitarf and infrane which could be find at wc3c.net

Your comment on cant leave the house - WTF? Go to the edge of the area. Only Arthas can go in.

The unit I refer to was Arthas. He can go in, but he cannot go out.

Your comment on Tauren Elite - Look, that's why most maps are strategy. Put in the village guard and arthas to tank or a knight.

This are not strategy, but more towards hack and slash with uber inbalances.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY MAP MAKE YOUR OWN OKAY?!

We have quality and bug control over here. If a map have unacceptable bug and does not meet the min requirement, it would be rejected.

For your information, the map quality control have been much strict in comparison with the past quality control.

I WILL NOT MAKE CHAPTER THREE ANYMORE.
I WILL ALSO QUIT MAPMAKING. I'M NOT ANY GOOD.

If you gives up just because of the first failure, you would never achieve what you want it to be.

For your information, I was once a newbie just like you do. You could just view my work at this link below and you would notice most of it ain't that great either, but I often try to improve it (I mainly focus at triggering) for a much better performance and quality.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps.php?u=Septimus

Of course, they're were approve back when the quality control was lenient, most of it would be rejected if it been re-evaluate based on current standard which are far more strict and precise.

If I could improve my performance, I don't see why you cannot do the same. Pessimism won't do you any good.

I suggest you to read this tutorial of mine.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...ap-making-what-do-what-should-avoided-119252/

 

[light bolt30]

Wow. What a big blow, Septimus. That hurt me. If you read my custom user title, you'll see why everything is horrible for you. Look, I just started mapmaking, it's only my 2nd week making maps. You don't expect me to be good at this. And besides, I'm only twelve. I can't reach up to everyone's expectations.

Your comment on terrain - Wow, that was just saying like it was horrible, wasn't it?
Your comment on cliffs - Look, the player wouldn't see that unless they cheat.
Your comment on quest - I can just change that, cool off.
Your comment on death indicator - I couldn't find a trigger to do it
Your comment on barracks - I can just add a lock camera to unit trigger then turn it off immediately
Your comment on cinematic - The triggers I put on are... I'd guess, correct. But then, it doesn't cooperate.
Your comment on cant leave the house - WTF? Go to the edge of the area. Only Arthas can go in.
Your comment on Tauren Elite - Look, that's why most maps are strategy. Put in the village guard and arthas to tank or a knight.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY MAP MAKE YOUR OWN OKAY?!

@light bolt30 - Wow, FIRST positive comment. Thanks. I don't really want to add a custom preview image. Well, I added a custom loading screen to 1 in the campaign version.



I WILL NOT MAKE CHAPTER THREE ANYMORE.
I WILL ALSO QUIT MAPMAKING. I'M NOT ANY GOOD.

Well we're not all perfect, being a map maker doesn't always mean good comments, but you also sometimes get negative comments. But this doesn't mean you should stop because of the comments but instead take it in and use those as guidelines for your future maps.

 

[indomitable1319]

It just gave me such a big blow, it made me want to just delete the map and never let the rest of the chapters see the light of day again. It was so harsh, he didn't even put it in a nice way.

 

[OutsiderXE]

You shouldn't base your motivation on mapping on someone else's opinion of your work. Mapping is something that should be fun in itself for you. And you will improve over time. I started when I was 11 (WC2, Red Alert 1) and all my maps made less sens than yours, but they got (much!) better over time. So will yours.
Nontheless you should expect feedback of any kind when you offer a file to a public audience.

 

[indomitable1319]

Sigh...

 

[-Kobas-]

Dude if it will be easier to you I am with WE for over 4 years and still Septimus still strike hard one me ! He just don't want to see bad maps uploaded on hive!

Point is that you can make thread in Map Development forum, write all about your map there, add screenshots everything, even attach map so people can test it give comments everything just like here with 1 main difference: Map don't need to be finished, bug less, etc...

Also use free time to learn you have many tutorials here, and at other sites as well!
Sometimes find some unprotected map like this one Defense of Argur and try to learn from there! Change triggers, add some events, play with it, you will learn faster and faster each day! Don't give up! And some day when people rate your map in comments and when you read good critics and comments about it, upload your finished map here without fear that it will be rejected or bad commented!

EDIT:

Lol nice, next chapter. Maybe create a custom preview image.

Small help:

256x256 tga image file import it to import manager and change file name to: war3MapPreview.tga

 

[indomitable1319]

This feels like one of those lectures my bro would give me if i do something wrong. Dammit. I'm leaving, I'm eating out. Mmmm... burgers.

 

[Septimus]

It was so harsh, he didn't even put it in a nice way.

That is being precise, not harsh. You obviously have no idea the difference between precise and harsh. If you view my review, my review are merely explain the flaw of your work and nothing else.

Harsh would include a much worst and sarcastic comment and believe me, you would wish you would never live on this earth if you ever read an review with harsh comment in it.

Dude if it will be easier to you I am with WE for over 4 years and still Septimus still strike hard one me ! He just don't want to see bad maps uploaded on hive!

The duration of how long you're with WE got nothing to do with it. It depends on how much research and development you does. I have once met a friend who been at WE for 3 years and he doesn't even know what is memory leak all about (Till he meet me at garena, of course. ).

Kobas, you have sufficient skill at terraining.. but you skill at triggering still look insufficient, if you practice GUI and JASS even harder. I have no doubt you could get much better output. It was your triggering that often put down your work.

Also use free time to learn you have many tutorials here, and at other sites as well!

Some tutorial was defective, thus it was recommend to ask opinion from experience user once in awhile. I have found this tutorial, but i forgot which site it was.

 

[-Kobas-]

The duration of how long you're with WE got nothing to do with it. It depends on how much research and development you does. I have once met a friend who been at WE for 3 years and he doesn't even know what is memory leak all about (Till he meet me at garena, of course. ).

Kobas, you have sufficient skill at terraining.. but you skill at triggering still look insufficient, if you practice GUI and JASS even harder. I have no doubt you could get much better output. It was your triggering that often put down your work.

Yes you are totally right, My terrain skills are mad because I just like that dude never know about memory leaks, hash tables etc.
I was opening maps learning in many ways! And when I first time connect from home to internet it was like omg+wtf together, I learned about 3 or 4 times more about everything (little about terrain)

So point is that you must work hard and constantly!

 

[indomitable1319]

Arthas Journey 2 was an rpg style like map by Indomitable1319 that involves Arthas journey before the wc3 sequences.

To begin with, the terrain of the map was poorly done; but that doesn't mean it was really horrible. It was just lacking despite that it follow the wc3 style of terraining. The way the terrain was done was more towards maze style like (It was proven to be right especially when the forest area look exactly an maze like formation) and completely unnatural especially for the border of the map where the entire area seems to be surrounded by unnatural cliff.

For an rpg style like map with cliff surrounded the entire area even though the scenario isn't took place at dungeon, this was surely an bizzarre scene. I also notice you add a extremely huge amount of fire, this cause the specific scene to be laggy for poor performance computer. You even have a partial part of the map that are completely empty with nothing on it.

Next comes the gameplay, the beginning of the game should have an game text that indicate what is the mission objective. If you view any wc3 campaign, they would flash the quest log button and have a game text showing the quest title and mission objective. The same goes to the upcoming quest as well.

When a summon unit dies. It should not have a warning message to indicate a unit has fallen (After all, it was a summon unit that would surely die anyway when the duration has expired).

The same goes to the barracks as well, when unit enter the structure. You should have move the camera to the position of the unit to allowed us to know where it have gone.

Cinematic and quest execution was poorly done as well. When unit was close enough to the npc to trigger an quest, you should have pause the game right away and move all unit to the right position before execute the cinematic. The rich man npc look retarded as if he was talking to himself when my unit bypass it the moment the cinematic was triggered. You also cause it to bug when my unit bypass rich man npc and trigger an event where I need to rescue an unit.
However, the unit was long dead the moment the cinematic end due to this error of yours.

Another bug that was unacceptable was after retrieving the item. I cannot leave the place at all.

The balance was another issues as well. The beginning of the game was too easy due to the narrow route and Arthas ultimate ability being too inbalance and his attack was soo fast I could have sworn it was an machine gun rather than an hammer attack. Then all the sudden comes an tauren elite that are soo freaking inbalance that it killed footman in less than 4 hit that you could not even have enough time to heal it.

There is a bug and balance issues that need to be resolves, as for now it was 1/5 (Unacceptable).

Terrain - I gave variation and 'tweaked' the cliffs a bit and I added more areas to not make it look like a maze, I guess
Quest - Put the quest objectives when it flashes
Unit Death Indicator - I just made new triggers saying what specific unit died
Cinematics
- Rich Man - Fixed; pauses everything when the cinematic starts
- Ending - How do I make all player-owned units move to a certain region to get them out of the camera?
- Rich Man's House Exit Problem - It works with me, wonder what's wrong. I made the region farther from the actual exit, so it should work now
- Tauren Elite - I kept the HP the same, but the damage; I just set it back to default.
- Arthas' Attack Speed - Set it back to default
- Narrow Route - Not yet....
- Holy Spirit - Not yet, still on terrain
Also, Septimus, report anything else you notice, please?
Kobas, should I add even MORE variation to my terrain?

 

[-Kobas-]

Kobas, should I add even MORE variation to my terrain?

Well I can see that you use blizzard cliffs (screenshots) and that is in maps like this ugly and bad

Try this one Tutorial

 

[indomitable1319]

Well I can see that you use blizzard cliffs (screenshots) and that is in maps like this ugly and bad

Try this one Tutorial

Cant.... Use.... Custom... Models! It won't let me for soem reason. I already took a tut but i didn't work...

 

[-Kobas-]

There is no need for custom models!

Please check this Valdis Inferno Is cinematic map made by Vengeancekael ! Open map and learn from there, but if you use any resource give credits to authors! You will see after all how to import models, how terrain is done, and sometning about cinematics!

 

[indomitable1319]

Mega uber hyper ultra update!!!!

 

[light bolt30]

Mega uber hyper ultra update!!!!

lol to you maybe its a big update but you should see those other developed maps with version updates of over 100 things
You should really think about where to place the doodads and where to improve terrain next time.

 

[karl19981]

I can't tell if it is nice, I just wanted my Warcraft 3 to work that's all and I can know if it is nice.

P.S.

He is just a starter, He can't understand some advanced stuff. I map make for fun , like Starcraft Editor, I make my own custom maps and decorate it with stuff.

Also, I am not good at stories, what pops out on my mind, then put it there. Then a random story appears yay!

I'm poopla913's friend yay!

No offense in this message!

Am I off topic?

Help! I can't understand the basic BBcodes here!

Wow... Randomity...

 

[indomitable1319]

Good point, Karl. I am learning a bit of Triggering, but WTF is JASS? (Don't answer, you'll waste typing energy)

 

[xDeathKnightx]

Wow. What a big blow, Septimus. That hurt me. If you read my custom user title, you'll see why everything is horrible for you. Look, I just started mapmaking, it's only my 2nd week making maps. You don't expect me to be good at this. And besides, I'm only twelve. I can't reach up to everyone's expectations.

Your comment on terrain - Wow, that was just saying like it was horrible, wasn't it?
Your comment on cliffs - Look, the player wouldn't see that unless they cheat.
Your comment on quest - I can just change that, cool off.
Your comment on death indicator - I couldn't find a trigger to do it
Your comment on barracks - I can just add a lock camera to unit trigger then turn it off immediately
Your comment on cinematic - The triggers I put on are... I'd guess, correct. But then, it doesn't cooperate.
Your comment on cant leave the house - WTF? Go to the edge of the area. Only Arthas can go in.
Your comment on Tauren Elite - Look, that's why most maps are strategy. Put in the village guard and arthas to tank or a knight.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY MAP MAKE YOUR OWN OKAY?!

@light bolt30 - Wow, FIRST positive comment. Thanks. I don't really want to add a custom preview image. Well, I added a custom loading screen to 1 in the campaign version.



I WILL NOT MAKE CHAPTER THREE ANYMORE.
I WILL ALSO QUIT MAPMAKING. I'M NOT ANY GOOD.

He done the same with me.

My Review

1) Description - Description at this site was way too lacking, it doesn't seems to be good enough to follow the submission rules. Please fix it.

2) Terrain - Terrain was lacking. The usage of other destructible/doodad was far too less as most of the time the only destructible that are being use seems to be pine tree.

From what I view, all those tree seems to be pretty close to each others as well. Try not to make them stack too close and use more height variation for the tiles as the terrain was way too smooth.

The wild life element was lacking as well, try add more of it such as a flock of birds to enchance the visual.

Avoid using blizzard cliff especially by making a multiple layers of it. Blizzard cliff are more suitable to make canyon rather than a hill/mountain.

The thing that really puzzle me was, how the hell that tree grow on the rocks?

3) Camera - Camera was badly done, several times it run through destructible/doodad and was way too choppy as well.

4) Animation - As far as I view, most of the unit was standing still like a dummy.

5) Sound & Sound Effect - When the catapult attack, I do not hear a single sounds at all. While the head villager was casting lightning from afar, I could still hear it?

The only sound effect I ever hear was the lightning.

6) Music - No music for a cinematic?

7) Fog - The fog need to be improve as it doesn't cover the entire area, some edge could still be view.

8) Replayability - I have to say it was very low, it was full of dull conversation with typo errors. No music, no sound and the only sound effect I ever heard was lightning.

Along with choppy camera movement that constantly run through destructible/doodad, it even kill the replayability as well.

4.68 mb for a cinematic that lack of music/sound, it was certainly a overkill size even if it was a single player cinematic.

Just view this screenshot to see a few typo you made.

It was recommend not to use dark blue to indicate the character name, as it was similiar to background colour; rendering it hard to be seen.

9) Scripting/Triggering - I have to said it isn't that good, you should have the entire cinematic setup execute immediately instead of setting a 0.05 seconds wait. By doing it your way, I could hear the human music which are suddenly stop.

Using wait action was rather a bad idea as the min wait was 0.27 no matter how low you set it.

Overall - This cinematic need a lot of polish before it can be approve, especially the description which are currently lacking. Till this resources have better description at this site, the resources should stay at pending.

As for now, my rating was 2/5 (Lacking)

But i used it to try and improve my map making, he might have sounded Harsh with that comment, but he's only giving you good advice, and seeing as he is one of the best map makers (in my mind), you should take his advice.

 

[Septimus]

I can't tell if it is nice, I just wanted my Warcraft 3 to work that's all and I can know if it is nice.

P.S.

He is just a starter, He can't understand some advanced stuff. I map make for fun , like Starcraft Editor, I make my own custom maps and decorate it with stuff.

Also, I am not good at stories, what pops out on my mind, then put it there. Then a random story appears yay!

I'm poopla913's friend yay!

No offense in this message!

Am I off topic?

Help! I can't understand the basic BBcodes here!

Wow... Randomity...

Just because he is new, doesn't mean he cannot be expose with the advanced stuff.. which he would definitely have to learn in the future.

 

[indomitable1319]

@xDeathKnightx - You can say that Septimus is good a reviewing maps and stuff.

@karl19981 - Haha, thanks Karl.

@Septimus - Definitely.