AoS campaign heroes map v1.06

[ShadowShaman.mn]

I believe that this map fulfills all requirements for approval.

 

[deepstrasz]

DotA ripoff?

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

**** ripoff?

Do not say the taboo word here.

 

[Deleted member 247165]

The Warcraft 3 campaign heroes have actually the same spells as the normal ones, only their models look different.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

The Warcraft 3 campaign heroes have actually the same spells as the normal ones, only their models look different.

And D*** heroes have different spells. So, see that I have changed a lot?

 

[Deleted member 247165]

By ripping off the same concepts of an already made game like DotA is not only unoriginal, but that will actually be another reason why your map will be rejected. Copies of DotA aren't accepted here, ask anyone if you don't trust me

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Campaign+D***=original map. How can't you understand?

 

[LordDz]

So this map is Dota Template but with the normal Warcraft 3 heroes added to it.
And those heroes now have attribute bonus too as an ability.
The items one can buy are the old items, not dota items or recipes.

After selecting a hero in the tavern, I could still select the tavern.
So after gaining another 475 gold, I just bought another.

I'll give you 1 in effort because you added the heroes to the tavern and changed the description of the heroes.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

So this map is Dota Template but with the normal Warcraft 3 heroes added to it.
And those heroes now have attribute bonus too as an ability.
The items one can buy are the old items, not dota items or recipes.

After selecting a hero in the tavern, I could still select the tavern.
So after gaining another 475 gold, I just bought another.

I'll give you 1 in effort because you added the heroes to the tavern and changed the description of the heroes.

The ingenious idea is to combine those two: campaign and D***. No one else did anything similar before.

 

[Deleted member 247165]

Just a dota template 2/5

 

[LordDz]

The ingenious idea is to combine those two: campaign and D***. No one else did anything similar before.

Dota did before they made custom heroes.

And all other hero allstar maps for Reign of Chaos.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Dota did before they made custom heroes.

And all other hero allstar maps for Reign of Chaos.

Prove it.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Dota did before they made custom heroes.

And all other hero allstar maps for Reign of Chaos.

Lol dude, none of your maps was approved, so you aren't the one to judge.

 

[Leaguer]

Good enough, but needs more tweaking!

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Good enough, but needs more tweaking!

Thank you

 

[Paillan]

I believe that this map fulfills all requirements for approval.

No... it does not... you don't provide screenshots as the rules say! BANHAMMER! awaiting update it is.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

No... it does not... you don't provide screenshots as the rules say! BANHAMMER! awaiting update it is.

This is totally unfair. There are images in "previews". Also the reviews are excellent.

 

[Paillan]

This is totally unfair. There are images in "previews". Also the reviews are excellent.

1 of those images is just the minimap image. Don't be lazy and add more images.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

1 of those images is just the minimap image. Don't be lazy and add more images.

Done and done. Now I guess you don't have anything left that to approve it.

 

[Paillan]

Done and done. Now I guess you don't have anything left that to approve it.

Well... I must check for bugs in the map...
Goblin shredars can harvest lumber. But can't drop it. Fix that.
No siege units spawn. Is this intended?

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Well... I must check for bugs in the map...
Goblin shredars can harvest lumber. But can't drop it. Fix that.
No siege units spawn. Is this intended?

It was intended to be like that. Approve it and I will make updates.

 

[Paillan]

It was intended to be like that. Approve it and I will make updates.

Are you trying to force me to approve your map? that's not how it works.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Are you trying to force me to approve your map? that's not how it works.

No, don't understand me wrong. It is only that I got the feeling that you don't want to approve it intentionally. The reviews are pretty good, I put effort in this and tried to satisfy every requirement for submission.

 

[Paillan]

No, don't understand me wrong. It is only that I got the feeling that you don't want to approve it intentionally. The reviews are pretty good, I put effort in this and tried to satisfy every requirement for submission.

Well, in it's current state it would gain a solid substandard because of those bugs.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Well, in it's current state it would gain a solid substandard because of those bugs.

That is no fair and I wouldn't recommend it. You obviously reject my maps without considering the impact on the community. I suggest you think it over

 

[Paillan]

That is no fair and I wouldn't recommend it. You obviously reject my maps without considering the impact on the community. I suggest you think it over

Substandard and rejection aren't the same thing.
Substandard maps are those that:
a) Are too simple
b) have bugs
c) break certain non-rejection rules (like being in another lenguage)
d) all of the above

Now, is your map simple? yes it is.
Does your map have bugs? yes it does.
There you go.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Substandard and rejection aren't the same thing.
Substandard maps are those that:
a) Are too simple
b) have bugs
c) break certain non-rejection rules (like being in another lenguage)
d) all of the above

Now, is your map simple? yes it is.
Does your map have bugs? yes it does.
There you go.

But people obviously like its originality (4/5). If it gets approved I would work very hard on it to improve it.
This way I will only lose motivation.

 

[Paillan]

But people obviously like its originality (4/5). If it gets approved I would work very hard on it to improve it.
This way I will only lose motivation.

People? only two people have voted in your map. What people are you talking about?
Also, really? do you know how many times i've heard "oh if you approve my X thing I will do Y to improve it!" in my time? MANY TIMES. And around 99% of those times the author would never show up again, and people would argue that moderation sucks until the issue was fixed.

That's why it IS A RULE to fix your map when a reviewer/moderator asks you to do so. Failing to do so will, of course, mean substandard.
If you do fix the current issues, I guess I could approve it for you trying at least.

You must think though that there already exist countless maps that do the same you did (melee/campaign heros into dota). What does your map offer that those not? lack of siege? is that something good? some buggy units? some very weird issues with food? heros cost gold, in an AoS? BAD items?

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

This was totally uncalled for.

 

[Paillan]

This was totally uncalled for.

Fix your bugs and we will talk again. If you remain civil that is, and don't force me to be harsh.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Fix your bugs and we will talk again. If you remain civil that is, and don't force me to be harsh.

I joined this forum before you, so show some deference infant.

 

[Dekadeep]

Pathetic! Not even a DotA ripoff. It is just a stupid template with heroes imported from Warcraft 3. 1/5 (wish I could give you 0/5)

 

[Windrosz]

Is this a joke? This is a template of DotA but in the description you put screenshots from the DotA of Icefrog and DotA imba?

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Lol someone has a wasteful of accounts to use for trolling.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Pathetic! Not even a DotA ripoff. It is just a stupid template with heroes imported from Warcraft 3. 1/5 (wish I could give you 0/5)

As Caesar once said: Troll debet vitantur - meaning Troll should be pwned.

 

[Kallel]

I joined this forum before you, [...].

Yes, and he has 409 more reputation points than you do. And he is a map reviewer, while you are not.

 

[Dekadeep]

Yes, and he has 409 more reputation points than you. And he is a map reviewer, while you are not.

It's useless with him. All members here call him the big Hive's troll.

 

[Nowow]

First of all, to be perfectly frank: the drama brought me here. Some very fun talks but the maps weren't much in them, so I took this as the most recent one to see what the fuss is about. This is the most recent one isn't it?

The result is, I must say, is very poor. The major problems I had with this map are as follows:

- "fully supported AI": I'm not sure what you mean by fully supported, but I expected to find AI controlled heroes supported, or at the very least normal unit controls, yet neither were implemented. You set up the AI with a couple of generic attack move triggers, and the result is terribly lacking: starting with the fact that I was able to trap ghouls in the sentinel forest with my hero (have them chase the hero then teleport away, they just stay still after that), to the extremely game breaking bug of units just staying in base and not moving (see pictures). This is the largest problem with the map yet. How to fix: check the AI script of the last orc mission in TFT campaign, it's a simple AI script which is useful to creating a non-buggy cannon fodder AI. Also, see this tutorial for supported hero AI. Make those to changes and then you'll have a partially supported AI, not great but far better then lying to the people downloading your map.

- Hero abilities: "The original Warcraft campaign heroes in AoS!" I'm not sure as to the efficiency of this gimmick, but gameplaywise this choice is a no-go. First of all, vanilla wc3 hero abilities make for poor AoS abilities, leading to huge balancing inconsistencies. Why would I choose Thrall with 2 basically useless abilities (far sight & earthquake) when I can go full juggernaut mode with a mountain king? Also, the abilities of an RTS require very little skill to use for a skill based MOBA style game (mountain king storm hammers, sea witch forked lightening etc.) This is nonsensical from a design perspective. In addition to that, using the heroes' original attribute and attribute scaling with new attribute stats leads to obvious balance problems in agility heroes, who should by level 6-7 have much more armor then the rest, crippled by the new "1 armor per 7 agility" system. This would be okay if hero abilities were skill based and they could dodge, but that is not the case. How to fix: make balanced abilities more fitting to the AoS theme, and re-balance stats and hero leveling constants.

Those two problems alone make the map virtually unplayable by my tastes, but just for the sake of informing you, there are many additional problems which you should fix:

- The terrain is bland, with little doodad variation and just plain odd height levels of the terrain.
- Heroes level up like in a melee game. I got to level 10 after about 5 minutes, somehow this doesn't seem right.
- The multiboard is titled " DotA template", which considering you did use a Dota template by your admittance, seems insultingly lazy.
- There is no explanation whatsoever about the map modes and commands mentioned. In general consider adding more information about the map mechanics in the quests tab.
- The attack target flags ("attack mid", "attack south" etc.) are visible on the map. Even if you keep the AI impaired the way it is, at least make those disappear with locust or something.

Another, very important thing: your map description is wrong and misleading. Starting from the large preview picture which is from a different map, to the "fully supported AI" schtick, to the uninformative glorifying change log. I get that you want your map to succeed but you should start that by working on the map itself instead of the change log description.

Verdict is 1/5, requires a whole lot of additional work.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

I will turn a blind eye on your rating since I believe that you missclicked or just didn't understand the ingenuity of the map.
-First of all, there was a newer version which is deleted.
-Regarding AI, I mean AI support regarding units, I didn't mention the heroes.
-The originality of the idea is to merge wc3 campaign and dota which is something that no one has ever done before.
-The map is up to the point where any change would just break the symmetry and ruin the concept.
-Your "strongest" arguments are bad description and misleading info. Have you ever heard about advertisement?

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

I get that your people have some vendetta against dota alike maps, but my other map The Final Battle is completely original yet it didn't get a chance.

 

[Deleted member 247165]

This is just the normal dota template with no modification...

 

[Nowow]

I will turn a blind eye on your rating since I believe that you missclicked or just didn't understand the ingenuity of the map.

No, I did not misclick, that is why I wrote "Verdict is 1/5, requires a whole lot of additional work". As for the map's ingenuity, I see none: this is basically taking a DotA template (which you admitted to use), which is fine - templates are meant to be used by others. The problem is you changed very little, and what you changed was for the worse.

Regarding AI, I mean AI support regarding units, I didn't mention the heroes.

That's true. You didn't mention units either, though. I guess that's why they bug out and stay at their spawn. So if your "fully supported AI" does not support either units or heroes, what does it support?

The originality of the idea is to merge wc3 campaign and dota which is something that no one has ever done before.

Perhaps so. In that case, the single shiny golden star you got is for the maps ingenuity. The rest of the stars you did not get for the flawed execution.

Your "strongest" arguments are bad description and misleading info. Have you ever heard about advertisement?

Bluntly, No. My "strongest" arguments is that the map is bugged leaving spawned units at their spawn - effectively breaking the AoS part of your AoS map, and that the "concept" is lazily put and does not work. I believe addressing those problems will make your map much more enjoyable, and hope you try putting some change in the map.

 

[pyf]

Can you please document the changes made since v1.03?

 

[Chaosy]

Truly the map of the ages. I humbly request Director's Cut status

 

[Paillan]

Okay guys this is getting of hand. I will formely petition to close comments on all of @ShadowShaman.mn 's maps until you all calm down a bit.

 

[Deleted member 247165]

There's no need. We stop.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

No, I did not misclick, that is why I wrote "Verdict is 1/5, requires a whole lot of additional work". As for the map's ingenuity, I see none: this is basically taking a DotA template (which you admitted to use), which is fine - templates are meant to be used by others. The problem is you changed very little, and what you changed was for the worse.



That's true. You didn't mention units either, though. I guess that's why they bug out and stay at their spawn. So if your "fully supported AI" does not support either units or heroes, what does it support?



Perhaps so. In that case, the single shiny golden star you got is for the maps ingenuity. The rest of the stars you did not get for the flawed execution.



Bluntly, No. My "strongest" arguments is that the map is bugged leaving spawned units at their spawn - effectively breaking the AoS part of your AoS map, and that the "concept" is lazily put and does not work. I believe addressing those problems will make your map much more enjoyable, and hope you try putting some change in the map.

That spawning bug you mention never happened to me before.

 

[Nowow]

That spawning bug you mention never happened to me before.

Well it did happen to me, as you can see in the pictures. It's possible such a bug won't happen in all games, but seeing that unit ordering triggers are not the most reliable of movement methods, such bugs are bound to happen in some games. There are several ways in which you can fix this:

- For starters, use the "AI -remove guard position of (triggering unit)" on every unit you spawn. This is good practice no matter how you choose to fix this issue
- After that, you can either use an imported AI script, such as the one used in the last orc mission in TFT campaign (if you get in trouble with the script itself, you can check my tutorial or any other tutorial to learn a bit about AI). Another possibility is using some sort of "captain unit" and order all units of some wave in some lane to "attack move" to the location of the captain constantly, this should get all spawned units to move.

 

[ShadowShaman.mn]

Well it did happen to me, as you can see in the pictures. It's possible such a bug won't happen in all games, but seeing that unit ordering triggers are not the most reliable of movement methods, such bugs are bound to happen in some games. There are several ways in which you can fix this:

- For starters, use the "AI -remove guard position of (triggering unit)" on every unit you spawn. This is good practice no matter how you choose to fix this issue
- After that, you can either use an imported AI script, such as the one used in the last orc mission in TFT campaign (if you get in trouble with the script itself, you can check my tutorial or any other tutorial to learn a bit about AI). Another possibility is using some sort of "captain unit" and order all units of some wave in some lane to "attack move" to the location of the captain constantly, this should get all spawned units to move.

Maybe it's a patch issue since I don't use 1.29.