Night elf Archer - by Cuore

Deleted member 212788 · Jun 20, 2019

I like the idea and direction, though the animations are a bit stiff and awkward (walk and attack specifically). The poly count could also be slightly reduced from initial looks. Also, while on geometry, the knees and lower legs definitely need to be slightly larger - currently she looks very malnourished. Curves and pronounced shapes are actually far more natural and even beneficial in video games where poly count is limited. As for length, personally I feel her legs and arms are a bit too long, though that's a personal opinion. Generally, I'd stick to the math ratios. On that note, shoulders should be a tiny bit wider to fit the hips. Head/Biceps/Triceps are well proportioned, though the chest looks...off. I can't quite place it but the skin looks stretched and dry - more shading and shine is definitely something I'd add. Or, if you don't feel like bothering with that, just drape a robe or cape over it - it's far easier and still fits the aesthetic. Bow looks great, though the quiver is clipping into the thigh. I'd personally move it up a bit and angle it in animations since when reloading, she would obviously manipulate it. Think of a lever connected on its centre. Finally, massive props for not giving her high heels - the amount of high-heeled fantasy female characters is too damn high

Cuore · Jun 20, 2019

Thanks for the review don. All points contain good suggestions, and reading constructive critcism means a lot to me.
In particular, I wonder what I could do to remove the current stiffness in several animation sequences as you mentioned - i feel like I've hit a dead end in that regard.
And that quiver needs a fix, definitely. Also needs a girdle connecting it to the torso instead of just floating in space there.
In terms of geometry, while I do get where you're coming from, I feel like the model is reasonably close to where it needs to be. If it looks too thin and skinny to match the average person, then it's hitting the spot and looks like an elf as I imagine it.

_____
To make the walk cycle I used a reference picture (found in literal 0.2 seconds on google)

For the attack sequence I didn't have to use any particular reference. I suppose random youtube short videos on archery could be useful.

Misha · Jun 20, 2019

hm.. her right forearm looks very weird without a bracelet or whatever is on her other arm

Cuore · Jun 20, 2019

Misha said:
hm.. her right forearm looks very weird without a bracelet or whatever is on her other arm

You misunderstand man, it's an attempt to represent an archery bracer, it's supposed to be unilateral so that it protects that forearm from being scratched by the bow's string zooming by when one shoots.

I suppose it could be handled better than with that sort of bracelet I came up with

thanks for your suggestion

Deleted member 212788 · Jun 20, 2019

Alright, I see what your idea is, though I'd still increase the thickness of the knee joint a bit - it looks almost broken currently when viewed from the side. Nothing drastic, just make it slightly more natural imo. For reference:

female-body-proportions-vector-id893473898

As for animations, try to give the whole body motion - normally when one walks they don't wave their arms around frantically, it's deliberate motions in a certain way. As for attacking, the body plays a large role. Usually when the archer draws the bow they extend their body back and straighten themselves. Once the arrow is fired, they breath out, the chest deflates and they resume the normal slightly bent position. Remember, this is not a modern recurve bow, it's a medieval longbow - the effort required to draw is much much higher and a large man can only sustain the draw for about 10 seconds at max pitch. Meaning, you have to communicate that she is putting in all her body's weight behind the draw.

Misha · Jun 20, 2019

@Cuore that could have been made much better with just an extra piece of mesh, instead of some weird texture stretch that looks literally like her other bracer is missing.. and yeah, she should have two of them

Jaina Proudless · Jun 20, 2019

Something about her stand animation reminds me of a gopnik.

Cuore · Jun 20, 2019

don_svetlio said:
Alright, I see what your idea is, though I'd still increase the thickness of the knee joint a bit - it looks almost broken currently when viewed from the side. Nothing drastic, just make it slightly more natural imo. For reference:
View attachment 326031

As for animations, try to give the whole body motion - normally when one walks they don't wave their arms around frantically, it's deliberate motions in a certain way. As for attacking, the body plays a large role. Usually when the archer draws the bow they extend their body back and straighten themselves. Once the arrow is fired, they breath out, the chest deflates and they resume the normal slightly bent position. Remember, this is not a modern recurve bow, it's a medieval longbow - the effort required to draw is much much higher and a large man can only sustain the draw for about 10 seconds at max pitch. Meaning, you have to communicate that she is putting in all her body's weight behind the draw.

Those knees bother me too, they look like that due to a rigging issue I haven't been able to overcome yet.

These suggestions about Attack are nice, I'll try to implement them if I can.

Misha said:
@Cuore that could have been made much better with just an extra piece of mesh, instead of some weird texture stretch that looks literally like her other bracer is missing.. and yeah, she should have two of them

Keep calm man. I'll keep your opinion in mind as long as it brings to something constructive but it's your personal view of the matter. Especially about “weird”. To me an archery bracer on an archer looks perfect even if it's a complete circular wristguard. To me it doesn't look like a weird stretch at all. To me it looks perfect with only one bracer. Simply opinions.
More interestingly, you mention that a dedicated separate piece of mesh would be better instead. I'm interested in constructive suggestions that lead to improvements. Please explain in more detail what you're thinking about, how you would improve that piece of armor.

Makoodzaka said:
Something about her stand animation reminds me of a gopnik.

I have no clue what you're referring to

Deleted member 212788 · Jun 20, 2019

He means the Eastern European squatting style

- it's something the Blizz archers don't display as prominently due to the features and proportions but is quite noticeable on yours

Cuore · Jun 20, 2019

Ah I see, thanks @don_svetlio . All true, but as don mentioned it's a pose that comes from the regular archer. It doesn't look very good on this one that's for sure. Anatomical differences

deepstrasz · Jun 20, 2019

don_svetlio said:
He means the Eastern European squatting style

Actually: Gopnik - Wikipedia

@Makoodzaka because of one animation, 2 stars, well. Anyways, the character is tall so basically it looks more like Legolas or a Warcraft troll squatting.

Cuore · Jun 20, 2019

Gopnik

While you certainly learn something new every day, it's clearly true that the current Stand animation doesn't look particularly good, especially on this extremely tall figure. I'll see if I can come up with a different Stand pose in the future; maybe the experimental pose I already toyed with could turn out to be a better stance. You guys be sure to write your ideas and suggestions about this issue, in the end it is going to result in a nice improvement

.

Jaina Proudless · Jun 20, 2019

Cuore said:
@Makoodzaka because of one animation, 2 stars, well. Anyways, the character is tall so basically it looks more like Legolas or a Warcraft troll squatting.

I think you can clearly see why I put my rating. Some animations aren't unique which isn't bad but it really doesn't fit this style of model. The style itself deviates greatly from the classic warcraft style which hinders the model utility. Sadly there's no spell (or victory) animation which are really useful and there's no team colour either.

On a minor note the stand ready animation is cool and everything but unless the attack speed of the unit is high the model will be holding the bow at full draw for quite a while. I know it's a trope in movies to have characters holding bows at full draw ready to fire but it's not very realistic because of the immense amount of strength (wasted strength too) that's required to do that.

Cuore · Jun 20, 2019

Thanks for the comment. Spell and stand victory can be made if they serve a purpose. What would be good to have the character do during Spell?

Also why do you feel like the model would be worthy of a positive point only if every single animation were unique? I don't get it. Really.

On a personal note I argue that, precisely Because it's set apart from most warcraft 3 overly bulky characters, models like this one can be particularly useful for those creators looking for something new, or for those who might want to integrate resources coming from different artstyles. In other words my objection is: Usefulness isn't limited to utility.

The realism issue of the current stand ready you mention is true but all in all it is really a minor thing however you want to look at it.

And finally, I don't really take offense in the model receiving low rating (who cares?). What I really want is being able to read your suggestions to try and refine the model to something better, and for those inklings you put in your comments I thank you.

Misha · Jun 20, 2019

adding an extra mesh (or just duplicating and adjusting that which is already there at the wrist) would allow you to wrap that bit separately, thus giving your model a lot more details without adding too many polys, and also, it would look much more like the piece you showed on an image of that IRL archer. your girl however, should not really look like her one arm has an oddly uneven suntan x3

Cuore · Jun 23, 2019

Updating to v1.0.1 with some changes.
Hoping to be working towards the right direction.
Be sure to leave your constructive thoughts, suggestions and comments below in order to get the model to be in a better shape in the future versions!
:ogre_love:

Antar36 · Jun 23, 2019

Good model.

Deleted member 212788 · Jun 23, 2019

You definitely are moving in the right direction. The quiver is no longer clipping in the leg, the stand animation looks better than the default archer. No more broken knees

As for criticism - the attack and stand ready animation could use a tweak - the arm holding the arrow should be straight, not bent up like so:

The reason for this is that in order to balance the force you are exerting without straining the wrist, you must pull backwards.
Also, do try and fix the weird tan on her right arm - I know the texture limits what can and can't be done but I've seen some creative wrapping by people before so I am certain you can fix that piece

Elektrohund · Jun 25, 2019

Nice model, I like it. The running animation is a bit floaty though. It could use some more bounce/bob.

LordPerenolde II · Jun 26, 2019

Long time no see. Are you back in business?

General Frank · Jul 9, 2019

Works in-game, performs appropriately and is a good addition to the model section. Excellent work!

kangyun · Jul 10, 2019

great face detail and animation!

Misha · Jul 27, 2019

hm nice, although the TC version needs the TC set to 'twosided', so it can be seen from any side
mainly the cloak, but check other pieces too

Cuore · Jul 30, 2019

Misha said:
hm nice, although the TC version needs the TC set to 'twosided', so it can be seen from any side
mainly the cloak, but check other pieces too

Yes! Thanks for pointing that out. I'll set it right as soon as I have time. Btw, I'm still experimenting with TC textures to find an acceptable combination.

Masky · Sep 8, 2019

ill save this, looks amazing! +5

Homor · Oct 13, 2019

I hope in the future we get to see some alternate skins for this beauty!

V · Oct 16, 2019

Looks Amazing!

Mgeterno11 · Dec 7, 2019

Nice archer, much better and detailed than the standard one.

cvc21 · Feb 10, 2020

nice model

CafeExpresso · May 29, 2020

Excellent Model... Good Animation And All...
But Just An Idea...

A Model Of The Blood/High Elfs Archer...

cherusker · Jun 24, 2022

So good! Will them add to a map soon.

Night elf Archer - by Cuore

Night elf Archer - by Cuore (no TC) (Model)

Night elf Archer - by Cuore (TC) (Model)

Deleted member 212788

Deleted member 212788

Deleted member 212788

Deleted member 212788

Deleted member 212788

Deleted member 212788

Deleted member 212788

Deleted member 212788

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