Round Table of Arkain

[Boriss]

I know but it will spoil the hatred =)
Where is the hatred in it

Just wait until you see who will your main hero be Im tellin you, when you see that, those black dragons with their anger melting buildings will seem like chill and cool headed bunch of fellows.

 

[Morris]

Oh I already know
I'm replaying it again and Shar already knows.how.I feel
I laughed at his and Rath's words.exchange

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

This is the third time technically: first was with the

Spoiler

Dark Elf expedition

which had bugged AI at the time, second was me going back and making sure the Vanguard AI worked and they could actually defend themselves, somewhat, still won in the end, and finally the live version was to prove it could be done without destructors. It's after all not an optional objective if it's actually required.

Ever considered making a video playthrough? I would love to see chief showing the plebs how it's done.

 

[Kasrkin]

Maybe someday

 

[LISBOAH]

Sorry, I just finished playing the chapter. I stopped receiving alerts about this thread for two days.

My thoughts

Spoiler

-I see you changed the opening cinematic. Very clever Shar
-Why aren't destroying the orc base or the undead base optional quests?
-Are the dragons and undead allies on this mission because I didn't see them attacking each other.
-Are you trying to make us sympathize with van Durce? Well, I guess anyone is more sympathetic than Genethas, so I can't blame you for making us root for van Durce.

 

[Kasrkin]

Spoiler

Orcs and Undead are small fries compared to stopping the Demon advance.
They are allied.
Did it work?

 

[Boriss]

Spoiler

Orcs and Undead are small fries compared to stopping the Demon advance.
They are allied.
Did it work?

You must admit, it has some effect. At the start in the first book we were all for Blen and frankly Gardon seemed like controversial dude. But we got to love him throughout the 2nd book. And fate or Shar may yet deem it worthwhile effort to bring these two disparate bro´s into a bromance.

 

[Morris]

The undead still does not appear dammit
Whyyy

 

[Championfighter25]

The undead still does not appear dammit
Whyyy

It seems in your anger you killed them.
Anyway i think that bug is not fixed yet. Also you really want to make this chapter harder on yourself? Well i wish you luck.

 

[Morris]

Shar mentioned it was fixed
I am positive I spared them.

 

[Kasrkin]

Shar mentioned it was fixed
I am positive I spared them.

I'm checking right now, this will take a little bit.

It does seem to be working, not sure which mission you can quit at and go back to nine. It might just be the interlude after completing six but I'm not sure.

 

[wQrEt]

The thing that caught me off the guard the most was his ultimate...Gotta read the flavor next time, or you could add some new spell icons.

 

[Verb8im]

What was supposed to happen with the dark elves? I spared them and killed them, and chapter 9 didn't change

 

[Boriss]

What was supposed to happen with the dark elves? I spared them and killed them, and chapter 9 didn't change

Spoiler

I spared them before downloading the chapter 9. Then the golden guard vanguard base got wiped out by the enemy forces and those pale elven spider girls made base there. Actually, im gonna try something. Will the vanguard still be active if I save them from those spiders? Lets see.

Edit: I may have a suggestion for some tweaks in chapter 9

Spoiler: Chapter 9

Lore-wise from what we have seen so far in the human books Saphira doesn´t care about human affairs. Thus it is strange for her to send her spider girls to attack van Durce. Would make more sense that she would send her forces to deal with Genethas and his demon overlords. She would still allow black dragons to attack your base so it will be harder that way but those pale elves could focus heavily on demon slaves. This way it will work like a double-edged blade. Making it harder on you as well as those demon suckers. This way you can even make those elves stronger. It would also make attacking Genethas harder in the way that you cant simply attack alongside the pale elves as they are hostile towards you, but with clever manouvering you can use them as bait or kite them or something.

 

[LISBOAH]

Spoiler

I spared them before downloading the chapter 9. Then the golden guard vanguard base got wiped out by the enemy forces and those pale elven spider girls made base there. Actually, im gonna try something. Will the vanguard still be active if I save them from those spiders? Lets see.

Edit: I may have a suggestion for some tweaks in chapter 9

Spoiler: Chapter 9

Lore-wise from what we have seen so far in the human books Saphira doesn´t care about human affairs. Thus it is strange for her to send her spider girls to attack van Durce. Would make more sense that she would send her forces to deal with Genethas and his demon overlords. She would still allow black dragons to attack your base so it will be harder that way but those pale elves could focus heavily on demon slaves.

Spoiler

I don't think those dark elves were serving Sapphira. Sir Eodarus was never seen fighting for Sapphira's faction.
Their coversation makes me believe more that Aridon is still alive.

 

[Boriss]

Spoiler

I don't think those dark elves were serving Sapphira. Sir Eodarus was never seen fighting for Sapphira's faction.
Their conversation makes me believe more that Aridon is still alive.

Spoiler

Or they just forgot to tell them that Aridon has hit the other end of river Stix. One way or another what they were doing makes no sense whatsoever. If they help Genethas destroy the cannon imperials are just gonna hightail it and run across the sea. To take control of the cannon? Impossible with so small a force. Everyone´s best bet right there is for Gardon to take control of that cannon. Which means the cannon must remain standing, means demons cant blow it up, means they need to help golden guard boyz on that one. I understand Thanok wishes to see Genethas dead and van Durce weakened, but he wouldn´t risk the cannon ending in scrapyard. If the undead really want that cannon for themselves, as it would give them some real firepower (they are no longer operating in the shadows, not since souleater legion sent Aridon running for his cake), their best chance would be while Gardon and van Durce are fighting over it. Which means they need to slow the fighting down, delay the destruction of Genethas while also protecting van Durce. So they would probably be setting ambushes for the attack forces. Then, when Gardon arrives they would let them fight each other and when the end is near jump out of the ground to claim the cannon with both Gardon and van Durce too weak to try to claim it themselves.

 

[LISBOAH]

Spoiler

Or they just forgot to tell them that Aridon has hit the other end of river Stix. One way or another what they were doing makes no sense whatsoever. If they help Genethas destroy the cannon imperials are just gonna hightail it and run across the sea. To take control of the cannon? Impossible with so small a force. Everyone´s best bet right there is for Gardon to take control of that cannon. Which means the cannon must remain standing, means demons cant blow it up, means they need to help golden guard boyz on that one. I understand Thanok wishes to see Genethas dead and van Durce weakened, but he wouldn´t risk the cannon ending in scrapyard. If the undead really want that cannon for themselves, as it would give them some real firepower (they are no longer operating in the shadows, not since souleater legion sent Aridon running for his cake), their best chance would be while Gardon and van Durce are fighting over it. Which means they need to slow the fighting down, delay the destruction of Genethas while also protecting van Durce. So they would probably be setting ambushes for the attack forces. Then, when Gardon arrives they would let them fight each other and when the end is near jump out of the ground to claim the cannon with both Gardon and van Durce too weak to try to claim it themselves.

Spoiler

Who knows the undeads' intentions?
Remember in the Orc Book when the undead attacked us in the final mission, which was clearly to delay us from destroying the imperial defenses? Same thing.

 

[Boriss]

Spoiler

Who knows the undeads' intentions?
Remember in the Orc Book when the undead attacked us in the final mission, which was clearly to delay us from destroying the imperial defenses? Same thing.

Spoiler

This isnt to delay. This is too close to wiping van Durce out. In the orc books if orcs fail the imperials hold the line and undead are safe. In this case if we fail demons blow up the cannon and the greatest anti-demon weapon ever to be build will be destroyed before completion. And I understand that they risk van Durce or Gardon ultimately using it to blow up the Dead mountain, but Aridon said it himself, they kick demon asses and then they disband. Bye bye Gardy.

 

[LISBOAH]

Spoiler

This isnt to delay. This is too close to wiping van Durce out. In the orc books if orcs fail the imperials hold the line and undead are safe. In this case if we fail demons blow up the cannon and the greatest anti-demon weapon ever to be build will be destroyed before completion. And I understand that they risk van Durce or Gardon ultimately using it to blow up the Dead mountain, but Aridon said it himself, they kick demon asses and then they disband. Bye bye Gardy.

Spoiler

Like I said before, who knows what are they thinking?
Maybe they were counting on van Durce beating this outpost and were just delaying Genethas' defeat, maybe they wanted to take control of the cannon, maybe they were opening the way for Genethas, who knows?

 

[Championfighter25]

Spoiler

Like I said before, who knows what are they thinking?
Maybe they were counting on van Durce beating this outpost and were just delaying Genethas' defeat, maybe they wanted to take control of the cannon, maybe they were opening the way for Genethas, who knows?

Spoiler

So they use the same tactic they used against the orcs in the final mission of the orc book. They want to delay them, but they still want them to win. Since i support that Aridon is alive remember he wants to keep the balance. If Van Durce quickly dealt with Genethas then he could concentrate on stopping Gardon's army before it arrives, then Gardon would have a harder time beating him, Aridon cannot allow the other side to gain an edge over the other since that would break the balance. So if Aridon is alive we can consider all of this as his plan of keeping the balance.

 

[Boriss]

Spoiler

So they use the same tactic they used against the orcs in the final mission of the orc book. They want to delay them, but they still want them to win. Since i support that Aridon is alive remember he wants to keep the balance. If Van Durce quickly dealt with Genethas then he could concentrate on stopping Gardon's army before it arrives, then Gardon would have a harder time beating him, Aridon cannot allow the other side to gain an edge over the other since that would break the balance. So if Aridon is alive we can consider all of this as his plan of keeping the balance.

Spoiler

So you think they will go for van Durce even when the cannon is about to get blown up resulting in demons gainin an edge?

 

[Championfighter25]

Spoiler

So you think they will go for van Durce even when the cannon is about to get blown up resulting in demons gainin an edge?

Spoiler

Since Aridon can predict the future most of the time completely correctly he may have known that the Golden Guard would win this battle,so just like the orcs he decided to slow them down for reasons i already stated . And yes he can think that far ahead. And i know you will say that he is dead, but come on, he proved he can just revive himself in the final chapter of the undead book so i doubt he could just be killed by a demon ambush, it's kind of a anti-climactic way to die.

 

[Boriss]

Spoiler

Since Aridon can predict the future most of the time completely correctly he may have known that the Golden Guard would win this battle,so just like the orcs he decided to slow them down for reasons i already stated . And yes he can think that far ahead. And i know you will say that he is dead, but come on, he proved he can just revive himself in the final chapter of the undead book so i doubt he could just be killed by a demon ambush, it's kind of a anti-climactic way to die.

Spoiler

He has no powers of foreseeing. He did not foresee how fast the orcs would unite, he did not foresee so early betrayal by his dreadlord pet, did not foresee the souleater legion coming etc. And Aridon playing against van Durce makes zero sense. He is not interested in fighting. He´s just there to evacuate the elves. This is probably not Aridon´s interest. I really do not see how he could manipulate van Durce to fight demons when hes helping demons beat him.

 

[LISBOAH]

Spoiler

He has no powers of foreseeing. He did not foresee how fast the orcs would unite, he did not foresee so early betrayal by his dreadlord pet, did not foresee the souleater legion coming etc. And Aridon playing against van Durce makes zero sense. He is not interested in fighting. He´s just there to evacuate the elves. This is probably not Aridon´s interest. I really do not see how he could manipulate van Durce to fight demons when hes helping demons beat him.

Spoiler

Aridon stated in an interlude that while he can see the future, the future is always changing, as it is not set in stone.

And maybe Aridon sees van Durce or his cannon as threats to what he perceives as balance, or doesn't like the idea that the cannon is at the hands of the Empire. He may have sent the undead to attack in order to weaken van Durce, thus easing the job for Gardon.

 

[Boriss]

Spoiler

Aridon stated in an interlude that while he can see the future, the future is always changing, as it is not set in stone.

And maybe Aridon sees van Durce or his cannon as threats to what he perceives as balance, or doesn't like the idea that the cannon is at the hands of the Empire. He may have sent the undead to attack in order to weaken van Durce, thus easing the job for Gardon.

Spoiler

None of this answers my question. Why would he aid the demons in destroying the cannon. Because if you push van Durce too hard he will lose and the cannon ends up blown to pieces. So, why would Aridon help demons? Or why would the pale elves themselves? Or sir Edo.exe? And why would he not send them if they get attacked by Merlon Seabright? Its not like he´s lacking forces. Undead suffered the least amount of casualties in the first book (mainly thanks to corpses popping up everywhere, so always someone to "recruit".

 

[LISBOAH]

Spoiler

None of this answers my question. Why would he aid the demons in destroying the cannon. Because if you push van Durce too hard he will lose and the cannon ends up blown to pieces. So, why would Aridon help demons? Or why would the pale elves themselves? Or sir Edo.exe?

Spoiler

He knew that van Durce would beat Genethas, with or without the undeads also attacking, but sent the undeads anyway just to weaken the defenses. Had Aridon not sent the dark elves, van Durce would have killed Genethas anyway, but his defenses would still be strong enough to hold against Gardon. By sending the dark elves, van Durce still won but his defenses are weaker.

 

[Boriss]

Spoiler

He knew that van Durce would beat Genethas, with or without the undeads also attacking, but sent the undeads anyway just to weaken the defenses. Had Aridon not sent the dark elves, van Durce would have killed Genethas anyway, but his defenses would still be strong enough to hold against Gardon. By sending the dark elves, van Durce still won but his defenses are weaker.

Spoiler

Well, he knows more than I know given how many times those knights almost burned down my base. Given this logic he would have sent them no matter Merlon´s actions against the elves. The connection of this attack to Merlon´s actions still makes me think this is more of a favour to Thanok than Aridon´s scheme. And as a favour I dont think he would be able to talk them into attacking for him, more like "Our friend Merlon did not attack you back then, even when you were previously hostile to him and burned down his fleet. So maybe you could help me out? There is this demon slave with his overlords and you fight the demons after all... also some inconsistency, we killed Sasrogarn in the first book. It was side quest when we played Zarin Hammerfall, side quest kill orc heroes Sasrogarn was on the list.

 

[DD Mikasa]

My take on this is while both Gardon and Van Douch will primarily use the cannon to cripple the demons in their inavsion,Golden Guard might transport the cannon back on the imperial continent and then fire it again on the 7 kingdom contient,that way they double down on both the Orc threat and Demon threat colonizing the continent and using it as a base for future raids/invasions on the empire after all Cheif Marin himself stated that this continent(7 kingdoms one) is lost,its a grave that its just forcing the empire to throw manpower and money and not giving anything back.Aridon does not want his homeland to be destroyed thats why he and his minions might back Gardon on this matter AND knowing how hell bent Gardon seems on vanquishing the Demons he might even lead an ivasion on the Void after he has finished firing that thing...Add here the fact that he got Dragons backing him up + the undeads (kinda iffy) he might have no trouble smashing the orc raiding partys(even tho their current raiding party got smashed by van douche there migh tbe more) and dont forget Aridon does have a spy on the demon ranks that might come in handy if an Ivasion were to take place.

This is just speculation so dont take it that serious

 

[Boriss]

My take on this is while both Gardon and Van Douch will primarily use the cannon to cripple the demons in their inavsion,Golden Guard might transport the cannon back on the imperial continent and then fire it again on the 7 kingdom contient,that way they double down on both the Orc threat and Demon threat colonizing the continent and using it as a base for future raids/invasions on the empire after all Cheif Marin himself stated that this continent(7 kingdoms one) is lost,its a grave that its just forcing the empire to throw manpower and money and not giving anything back.Aridon does not want his homeland to be destroyed thats why he and his minions might back Gardon on this matter AND knowing how hell bent Gardon seems on vanquishing the Demons he might even lead an ivasion on the Void after he has finished firing that thing...Add here the fact that he got Dragons backing him up + the undeads (kinda iffy) he might have no trouble smashing the orc raiding partys(even tho their current raiding party got smashed by van douche there migh tbe more) and dont forget Aridon does have a spy on the demon ranks that might come in handy if an Ivasion were to take place.

This is just speculation so dont take it that serious

Van Durce himself said that its meant to only buy time. Its not getting dragged back to the continent. Attacking him will also not bring him to be more active in war against demons. And aiding Gardon would bring way more benefit in joining him directly.

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

Everyone is so much into undeads' strategy. But what about the orcs? What were they doing there? Came to steal the cannon as well? Also I find it odd that orcs are led by Sas and Rath. I thought both were dead since book 1( a sidequest to kill them in Chapter 9 if I recall correctly).

 

[Championfighter25]

Everyone is so much into undeads' strategy. But what about the orcs? What were they doing there? Came to steal the cannon as well? Also I find it odd that orcs are by Sas and Rath. I thought both were dead since book 1( a sidequest to kill them in Chapter 9 if I recall correctly).

Spoiler

There was indeed was a side quest where you had to kill Sasrogarn. There was a side quest to destroy the darkmind clan base, but it wasn't said we had to kill Rath.

 

[Boriss]

Everyone is so much into undeads' strategy. But what about the orcs? What were they doing there? Came to steal the cannon as well? Also I find it odd that orcs are led by Sas and Rath. I thought both were dead since book 1( a sidequest to kill them in Chapter 9 if I recall correctly).

Yeah. Well, orcs are orcs. Rath said hes there cos hes pissed that his prey, Greymoore, was killed by van Durce. Orcs are more... simple minded beings.

 

[Kasrkin]

Rath is too stubborn to die and he's only there to rip van Durce's head off for kill stealing Blen. Sassy is probably looking for looking for loot and tagged along, also there's demon slaves to kill what is more easy to hate than men who willingly gave up their souls?

 

[Championfighter25]

Yeah. Well, orcs are orcs. Rath said hes there cos hes pissed that his prey, Greymoore, was killed by van Durce. Orcs are more... simple minded beings.

Kind of sad when you think they are the only race that cannot be manipulated, not even Aridon or the Dark entity can manipulate them no matter how hard they try. They can outtrick them, but only that.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Van Durce himself said that its meant to only buy time. Its not getting dragged back to the continent. Attacking him will also not bring him to be more active in war against demons. And aiding Gardon would bring way more benefit in joining him directly.

He did say it was only to buy time,but he did not say for what they are buying time,I personally dont get it why would Aridon would harras him other but to take the cannon from his hands...Maybe Aridon fancies another servant on his ranks after Largoth left but smth tells me that even in death Van Douch...Will be a douch

@Kasrkin

Tbh Rath reminds me of that eggy teen who got bullied in school and now he is tryna get back to his bullies.Never liked the dude.

 

[LISBOAH]

Everyone is so much into undeads' strategy. But what about the orcs? What were they doing there? Came to steal the cannon as well? Also I find it odd that orcs are led by Sas and Rath. I thought both were dead since book 1( a sidequest to kill them in Chapter 9 if I recall correctly).

What @Boriss said.

The orcs prefer going all Leeroy Jenkins rather than strategizing. They are not a race known for coming up with brilliant plans to defeat their plans, but instead for simply attacking until the enemy is dead.

I think Shar said a while ago that destroying their bases in the first book doesn't imply that Rath or Sas died with the base. In fact, if you didn't notice, Rath was one of the raiders defending the Darkmind base when Blen attacked, and yet he survived.

@Kasrkin

Tbh Rath reminds me of that eggy teen who got bullied in school and now he is tryna get back to his bullies.Never liked the dude.

More like the guy that bullied others until the bullied started retaliating and now he wants revenge.

 

[Championfighter25]

In fact, if you didn't notice, Rath was one of the raiders defending the Darkmind base when Blen attacked, and yet he survived.

I realised that, he even suggested their direct attack was useless since the imperial's got reinforcements. Grael didn't listen, Rath was intelligent for once and everyone just ignored him. Oh the irony!

 

[Boriss]

I realised that, he even suggested their direct attack was useless since the imperial's got reinforcements. Grael didn't listen, Rath was intelligent for once and everyone just ingored him. Oh the irony!

Yeah orcs are the Donald Trump of Arkain. Not even consistent in their cons.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Talking about orcs...Is anyone here bummed that appart from Rath and Sasrogan(and that cav. fella) there weren't any other Heros perhaps a Cenatur/Gnoll warchief taking part in the raid?After all Sas and Rath should not be allowed to have all the fun are't they?

 

[Championfighter25]

Talking about orcs...Is anyone here bummed that appart from Rath and Sasrogan(and that cav. fella) there weren't any other Heros perhaps a Cenatur/Gnoll warchief taking part in the raid?After all Sas and Rath should not be allowed to have all the fun are't they?

It's kind of dangerous to have more chieftains there, they could have been killed. And after Aridon killed most of them they don't want to lose important commanders again.

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

What @Boriss said.
I think Shar said a while ago that destroying their bases in the first book doesn't imply that Rath or Sas died with the base. In fact, if you didn't notice, Rath was one of the raiders defending the Darkmind base when Blen attacked, and yet he survived.

That works for Rath only. Sassy was on the list of heroes to kill.

 

[Boriss]

Talking about orcs...Is anyone here bummed that appart from Rath and Sasrogan(and that cav. fella) there weren't any other Heros perhaps a Cenatur/Gnoll warchief taking part in the raid?After all Sas and Rath should not be allowed to have all the fun are't they?

A few pages back I posted my own theory about how these come to join the orcs (the bang dogs, horses, each others post).
Despite it being maybe somewhat not exactly a pleasant thing to imagine, I find it awfully accurate description of what happens in orc clans now.

 

[LISBOAH]

I realised that, he even suggested their direct attack was useless since the imperial's got reinforcements. Grael didn't listen, Rath was intelligent for once and everyone just ignored him. Oh the irony!

Like, I said.
Rath: Chieftain, the humans got reinforcements. This makes our prepared attack useless. We await your orders.
Grael: I see... Leeroy Jenkins!
Rath: But-
All orcs: LEEROY JENKINS!
Rath: Sure why not? Leeroy Jenkins!

Rath takes a hit in the head and loses his once strategical mindset.

It's kind of dangerous to have more chieftains there, they could have been killed. And after Aridon killed most of them they don't want to lose important commanders again.

The other chieftains weren't all on the front lines and Krom still killed them all.

 

[Championfighter25]

Like, I said.
Rath: Chieftain, the humans got reinforcements. This makes our prepared attack useless. We await your orders.
Grael: I see... Leeroy Jenkins!
Rath: But-
All orcs: LEEROY JENKINS!
Rath: Sure why not? Leeroy Jenkins!

Remember how Shar said the undead cannot use their full force since everyone would just attack them and utterly annihilate them? Well the orcs did what the undead shouldn't have.. and well yeah it didn't end well.

 

[DD Mikasa]

@Boriss Ehmm...Sure thing...Maybe some orcs have Horse/hyena fetishes

 

[Boriss]

@Boriss Ehmm...Sure thing...Maybe some orcs have Horse/hyena fetishes

Some you say? Man, whole clans have elected their new unique clan identification thing! Rath´s boyz have a thing for horses, Sas´ clan has a thing for hyena and other small animals now, hell they even bang rocks (those golems man). It´s like take an animal from warcraft 3, have an orc bang it and you have a nice addition to orc´s arsenal. And this theory will be proven right when they will get their hands on cows and start sending tauren into the fight.

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

Once again, could someone explain me how the hell Sas is still alive? It took me two packs of gryphons to take him down and finish off that damn sidequest, damn bastard

 

[DD Mikasa]

@Boriss
I wounder how the managed to produce dem Red Orcs...Banging paprika maybe

 

[Shar Dundred]

Sasrogarn is the only hero who has not died during the side quest in Chapter Nine.
He is a cowardish character, he ran away when defeat was inevitable.

 

[Kasrkin]

To give you some idea of what I did to destroy the demon slaves and their masters.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Van Durce has a scroll of town portal by the way.