[Strategy / Risk] Lordaeron: the Aftermath

[Spinel]

Greetings to all who follow this topic and when I read all the posts written here I have something to contribute.

I think you should remake Gilneas. In choosing between New Dalaran and Gilneas is now quite clear what an ordinary player will play. The lore is clearly written that Gilneas has a coastline almost not available for naval invasion. In the game we have a port leading directly into Gilneas City. New Dalaran also has enhancements to many more units (golems, wizards, etc.) Gilneas has only attack increases for Worgen.

I could never make a map like this and I do not want to criticize too much but I think that Gilneas is almost undone as a big fan of Warcraft and the kingdom of Gilneas itself I feel obliged to write this here.

Anyway Lordaeron: Aftermath is my favorite map in warcraft 3 and thanks for its existence.

 

[D_King23]

Hmm...Spinel writes about the truth though.Although you have the most allies but you are staying in the legion and forsaken if you went to found new dalaran you will probably get attack on your base xD so msot of them will surely go gilneas to train worgen.

 

[Spinel]

This is true, but in the later part of the game does not have a chance. Gilneas has strong melee units but in the case of a battle that requires at least a little bit of strategy Gilneas has no chance.

Dalaran has strong melee units and wizards who can destroy virtually any air units without problems (Kirin Tor). Rhonin is really OP and he even has a spellbook of Medivh, is invincible.

Gilneas should get at least a cannon. (According to lore it would be possible) This could change the player's choice between Gilneas and New Dalaran.

 

[Zanrhun]

I think you should remake Gilneas. In choosing between New Dalaran and Gilneas is now quite clear what an ordinary player will play.

Quite true. I'm a huge fan of New Dalaran and of its ability to save the day by teleporting armies where and whenever its help is needed. With Wyrmrest, things will only get better for New Dalaran as it will be able to stand on its own (considering there will always be players going Illidari, Scarlet Crusade, Dark Iron or whatever).

On the other hand, my feeling is that Gilneas is underestimated and/or misunderstood by most players. You have strong melee units (you should focus on upgrading their armor first as they have a baseline bloodlust that increases the damage they deal) but you still have access to some of the best support casters in the game (you're Dalaran remnants, remember?): sorceresses with sheep being autocast; priests with heal, an AoE defensive or offensive dispel and a huge buff; and chaplains to silence your opponent's hero squad and replenish your mana. You also have access to steam tanks, which, once upgraded, give you decent anti-air damage. Both your heroes (Greymane, Arugal) aren't that good but provide nice support (melee damage increase aura, chain heal).

The thing is, playing as Gilneas requires teamwork, which isn't always possible, for example if you get random allies on Bnet. You need Dwarves and Silver Hand to concentrate efforts on western Lordaeron, otherwise Forsaken and Legion will most probably crush you and your game's over as you don't have Rhonin anymore (his return could be a second chance for the one playing Dalaran remnants, though, if Gilneas is destroyed or something).

In my opinion, Gilneas is much better than Silver Hand as far as the heavy melee/support casters conjunction goes. Still, I would only play it with yellow/light blue friends on Bnet as it requires a bit of strategy to reach its full potential.

 

[Yousef]

So, any news ? Any release date for 1.15 ?

 

[D_King23]

Yea,can't wait for the next version xD

 

[Spinel]

I'm not saying that Gilneas is weak. I say that Gilneas is not as diverse as other factions. I think it would be interesting if the player had extensive possibilities. For Gilneas it's only improve power units, there is no other event.

And yes I also can not wait for the next version ... Please at least until the end of the year

 

[Yousef]

I'm not saying that Gilneas is weak. I say that Gilneas is not as diverse as other factions. I think it would be interesting if the player had extensive possibilities. For Gilneas it's only improve power units, there is no other event.

I just played as Gilneas, they are strong melee, spellcasters, heroes (and their ultimates) but the problem is events.

 

[Spinel]

I have a few suggestions for events for Gilneas:

1) The player would be able to get support for example Bloodfang Worgen. For it might get Lvar Bloodfang as a hero and small army.

2) Or, theoretically release Darius Crowley from prison. If player do it he would lose Arugal and gain Darius Crowley with few worgens.

3) If he could kill Sylvanas could get a bonus for units fulfilled as revenge for the death of Liam Greymane.

Or, and this event would be very questionable.
4) Purge the worgen out of Gilneas. This would result in the recovery of units from lycanthropy. Changes units (from archers to riflemans, etc), lost Arugal (or crowley) and gain Lord Godfrey.

 

[Olivertkf]

Any news ? When u will release the new version ? can wait to play :3

 

[Yousef]

Of course there is a great surprise !

 

[Holymind]

Happy late new years!!!

 

[Spinel]

Is it released? Where can i download it?

Happy new year guys.

 

[Yousef]

I want to suggest an ultimate ability for LK:

Name: Apocalypse.
Casting Time: 20 sec. (so, players can stop it)
Based on: War Stomp.
Range: 1100
Cooldawn: 7 mins
Damage Caused: 10000000 (LOL)
Mana Cost: Most of the mana. (example: his mana is 2000, it will cost 1700)
What does it do ?: Kills every thing around it.
Description: The Lich King unleashes all of his unholy power to his enemy, causes to kill everything around him, even his minions.

 

[Red Hawk]

I like the map, but I'm disappointed by the amount of spelling errors in it (unleesh isn't spelled like that , it's spelled unleash, and nor is nathazim or something, however you spelled it, it's spelled Nathrezim.)

I would like to offer my services to help you with this, for the betterment of the map in general, I feel.

 

[Yousef]

Any thing new, Marshmalo ? I am starting to think that you are dead !

 

[D_King23]

Ya me too o_o Are you here...?D:

 

[Marshmalo]

Yes sorry I am here! I have been checking this thread regularly just been busy over xmas and didnt want to reply unless I actually had some news!


I have read everything said here and like all the ideas posted even if most won't make it into the game, there are some that I will include in next or later versions.


Here is the current patch notes for version V1.15. As you can see there are ALOT of changes and new stuff for almost all factions!


A lot of bugs have also been addressed, thank you to everyone who reported them!

NOTE: Anything in Italics and underlined means I have not yet done, so as you can see there is very little left to do before this can be released. Now xmas is over I will be turning all my free time to getting V.1.15 finished


NOTE 2:Remember version 1.15 is just the next step in the development of this map, there are still many changes and extras stuff that will be coming in later versions as the map is expanded.

Eventually, when the map is complete the following regions will be added:

-Outland (All sub regions).

-Badlands

-Searing Gorge

-Burning Steepes

+ Plus new faction for 12th player.

Map will not be expanded any more than this as it is getting huge now and people on old computers may struggle.

V1.15 PATCH NOTES
Expand hidden tags or download Word File for full list below:

BLOOD ELF

BLOOD ELF
• Verdant Orb no longer dies on death and can now be used by any BE hero to restore sanctums not just Kael.
• Anveena’s Essence can now be used to restore any unit or building to 100% life when used.
• Join Horde Diplomatic message is now carried by Halduron Brightwing
• New Hero: Lor’Themar Theron.
• When Blood Elves join Horde Kael leaves behind the Elves of Quel;Thalas and heads to Outland, he is replaced with Lor’Themar Theron.
• Silvermoon can now be restored by either Kael or Lor’Themar.
• Ballista Damage has been decreased slightly but has increased movemented speed.
• New abilities for the Sunwell when restored.
• Verdant Orb item no longer drops upon death. Only Blood Elf players have a chance to summon a Phoenix when using Verdant Orb now.
• The Ruined Sanctums can now be restored by any Blood Elf hero using the Verdant Orb, not just Kael.
• Reduced the amount of buildings BE gets in Sunwell Isle for restoring Sunwell.
• Cost of Ashes of Al’ar increased 250%
• Anveena’s Essence item can no longer be lost via sinking.
• Fire Elemental Summons now have Spell Immunity.
• Farstriders no longer have Blink ability (This was a bug).
• Neutral Buildings which provide Mana regeneration now also offer Mana feeding, which stops Nearby BE going Wretched.
• If Blood Elf go Fel Pact and then Illidari, their alliance restrictions are lifted. (They are already allied to Legion by this point so hopefuly should not mass ally)
• Spirit of the Sindorei upgrade attained through the Ruined Arcane Sanctums now gives a mana and attack damage bonus rather than HP bonus (This is more fitting with BE tactics).

CULT OF THE DAMNED

________________________________________
Cult of the Damned
• Naxxramas can no longer enter dungeons (Lore fix).
• New Hero: Noth the Plaguebringer (Replaces Baron Barrov, this makes Cult more of a caster style faction which is more compatable with Lore.)
• Kel’Thuzad can now open a temporary Deathgate in Scholomance to better support Scourge.

TWILIGHTS CLAN

________________________________________
Twilights Hammer

• MAJOR CHANGE: Twilights Cult actually start off as Dragonmaw Clan now, if Overlord Mor'ghor dies player can choose between becoming the Twilights clan or Joining the Horde and getting a new hero: Warlord Zaela.
• Twilight Hammer Item can now be activated to restore mana to nearby units, now drops when Cho’Gall dies permanently.
• Deepholm Portal can now be opened and closed multiple times.
• After Cho’Gall has defeated Menethil Harbour he will now order its fortification to strengthen his position in the Wetlands.
• Yogg and Old One Agents have increased stats, Cho’Gall now gains 3 extra levels from freeing Yogg Saron.
• New unit types for Twilights Hammer.
• Yogg Saron’s lair is now located in Ulduar not Azjol Nerub (Lore fix).
• Fel Orc Spear Throwers can now use the Ensnare ability.
• New Twilights Ascendance Upgrade for Twilight Cultists.

LEGION

________________________________________
Legion
• Nazarim Elite Gold cost have been increased from 90 to 100
• Greater demons like Doom Guards and Infernal Machines now require Kil’Jaden in order to summon.
• Kil’Jadens base damage decreased from 70 to 50.
• If Blood Elf accept Fel Pact Legion now lose their alliance with Forsaken (For Balance reasons).
• Legions Fel Keeper towers inside the Void now have Truesight (This is to stop people sneaking units in).
• Balnazzar has an extra starting level.

THE SCOURGE

________________________________________
Scourge
• Scourge can now capture the city of Azjol Nerub, putting an end to the Nerubian Rebelion and unlocking Fallen Nerubian Unit types.
• New Capturable Nerubian Hero: Grand Vizier Nadox
• If Scourge looses Lich King or the Frozen Throne he now enters observation mode. (This is encase player wants to see the rest of the battle even after he has lost.)
• Destroyers now cost the correct amount of gold. (Changed from 100g to 25g)

SILVERHAND

________________________________________
Silverhand
• Tyrion has a new ability: The power to Recruit Militia Peasants
• Tyrion can now forge the Ashbringer in Ironforge, if he dies the Ashbringer will pass onto Renault Mograine.
• The Argent Dawn can only be formed after 20 minutes game time has elapsed (This is to stop people rushing to Argent Dawn + Draenai at game start).
• Ashbringer Item hero stat bonus reduced from 25 to 20.
• Varessa Windrunner base HP reduced by 175. Spell duration given to her Covenant Archers spell.
• New advanced Upgrade available: Peasantry Training.
• Alonsus Faol name changed to Isillien, Grand Inquisitor of the Silverhand. (Lore)
• Silverhand starts with Menethil Harbour in the Wetlands, led by Captain Stoutfist. If Silverhand turn to Scarlet Crusade control of this harbour will automatically go to Ironforge.
• Great Hawks now have the detection ability.
• Velens Shards of Eradar spell duration has been decreased from 40 to 30 seconds, mana cost increased from 65 to 75.
• As Risen light blue can now use Balnazzar’s Astral Walk ability.
• Duration of Covenant Archers Scout ability has seen decreased to 30 seconds.

DALARAN REMNANTS

________________________________________
Dalaran
• Rhonin’s Arcane Summons ability has been replaced with Blizzard.
• Kirin Tor’s Blizzard replaced with Spell Steal.
• EVENT: If Malygos is destroyed and his Focusing Iris brought before the Wyrmrest Accord, Ambassador Kalecgos will join Dalaran as Alexandras representative. While he is active new Wyrmrest Accord units will be available.
• Rune Ward spell now has increased cooldown and mana cost.
• New Starting base: The Mystic Ward in Ironforge city.
• Dalaran Dungeon clearing event has been removed (It was dull and buggy)
• Kadgar’s Arcane Cage spell now has a cooldown.
• Dalaran Agents now have Resistant Skin ability and can not be Charmed.
• Dalaran Agents now named to Tirisfal Agents and have the Magic Sentry ability replacing Detection.
• Maive’s Arcane Vortex Hero stun duration has been decreased.

FORSAKEN

________________________________________
Forsaken
• The Vyk’re base in Northrend can no longer be destroyed before Sylvanas rescues it.
• If Blood Elf accept Fel Pact Legion now lose their alliance with Forsaken (For Balance reasons).
• Forsaken can not join Horde via the diplomatic message until atleast 15 minutes game time has expired.
• Forsaken Lose alliance with Legion is Blood Elves choose fel pact and join Legion.

DWARVES

________________________________________
Dwarves
• New city: Ironforge
• New starting hero: Magni Bronzebeard (Non reviveable)
• Magni can travel to Thundermar to unite the Thundermar Dwarves in Twilight Highlands.
• Gryphon Riders damage has been decreased.
• Explorers League Zeppelin Ultimate Summon has had its attack reduced.
• A random Epic Item can be forged in the fires of Ironforge City but at a great cost in gold.
• Dwarves can now capture Gnomeregan.
• Some small techtree changes have been made to how Dwarfe upgrades work.
• Mortar teams now have the Flare ability much like in regular WC3 but requiring the Explorer’s League Funding research.

HORDE

________________________________________
Horde
• Goblin Teleportal pads now have a self destruct ability.
• Drek’Thar is now relievable
• Drek’Thar now has “Order construction of Frostwolf Fortress” event in Alterac Valley. (Horde does not start with Frostwolf Fortress anymore)e
• Goblin Sappers Transport size increased to 8 (This is to stop people dropping them from Zeppelins onto important structures like The Frozen Throne)
• Horde starts with a base in Loch Modan instead of Dragonmaw Port (Horde always lost Dragonmaw port and map start so there seemed little point in this. The base in Loch Modan is a place holder base and will be replaced with Kargath in later versions.)

TROLL EMPIRE

________________________________________
Trolls
• New Base in Dun Morogh with the Ice Trolls of Frostmane Retreat and their Leader, Great Father Arctikus. (None reviveable).
• Trolls no longer start with Gundrak in Northrend, however they can gain this tribe by visiting Gundrak with any Hero.
• New Icons for Troll heroes and Troll worker.
• If Trolls declare War on their animal gods in Gundrak they no Longer loose Amani Trolls but are kicked out from thralls Horde. (Players must now choose between this powerful hero or the Horde).
• New Troll Unit: Jungle Raptor
• Troll Bat rider movement speed increased and gold cost reduced by 2.

BUG FIXES

Bug Fixes
• Argent Dawn’s Wintergaurd Keep is no longer invisible.
• Cult of the Damned can no longer teleport to unit storage area.
• Dalaran can no longer teleport to unit storage area.
• Any player owned unit entering unit storage area in order to troll the game will now be killed.
• Siege Golems in Recharging mode can no longer attack.
• Fixed unit ownership bug with New Dalaran.
• Lady Vashj now gets Experience from Valeera Sanguine when Blood Elves go from Fel Elves to Illidari.
• When Forsaken gains Undercity she no longer accidently gets any of Legions Nazarim Elites still inside Undercity.
• Dalarans Arcane Shield generators now properly deal damage once Spell mastery is researched.
• Legion now correctly gets Mephisteroth once Balnazzar dies.
• Fixed a bug that meant Maiev sometimes spawned a thero level 1.
• Fixed bug where Naxxranas could not build Workers.
• Cult of the Damned Summon Acolytes item now correctly summons Cultists.
• New Ultimate spell for Deathoroc to stop clash with Summon Legion spell.
• Only Fel Elf Kael can now summon Legion (His summon spell has been fixed)
• Forsaken can no longer train Nerubian units if she gains all freed Scourge units and buidlings.
• Blood Elves Fire Elementals can no longer be victim to the Wretched Curse (This made so sense)
• Market in Lordaeron no longer sells Staff of Teleportation (Balance reasons).
• When Light Blue goes Risen path his items are transferred from Saidan to Balnazzar. (Previously he would loose items.)
• There are now no holes in the borders of Deepholm. (People used to teleport there and build a base).

GENERAL CHANGES

Misc
• New Regions: Dun Morogh and Loch Modan.
• Scroll of Town Portals cost have been increased from 300 to 350. (In such a huge map these are very powerful items)
• Rune Stone of Caer Darrow hs been removed from Dalaran Dungeons (as fun as this item is it was causing balance issues).
• All naval ships now have increased movement speed.
• Flying heroes can no longer be targeted by autocasting Web ability.
• Book of Medivh no longer drops when hero is loaded into a transport, can not be lost via sinking anymore.
• Book of Medivh can no longer be sunk by using a non-hero unit to carry it for you then entering this unit into a ship then sinking the ship.
• All workers now have resistant skin and cannot be charmed.
• CP at ruined Dalaran removed. (there’s already 40g worth of cps inside the dungeons.)
• Nexus no longer sells Blue Dragons.

Changes effecting visuals only have not been included as they are superficial.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/oe1q4b/_files/LTA%20V1.15%20Patch%20Notes.docx

 

[Zanrhun]

WOW, that's huge.

Again, thank you for the love you give in this map, players love you for doing so!

I'm particularly eager to see how Cult's new hero will do and synergize with what we already had (I'm a huge fan of such caster-themed armies), and how the Deathgate thing will work. Just sad the Summon Workers item on Kel'Thuzad now spawns regular Cultists, as he is probably the main target of hero sniping due to him having the Book of Medivh. That was cool to be able to transform acolytes in shadows on demand, when you caught glimpses of those dreadlords. But still, not gamebreaking and on par with what other factions can do.

Otherwise, I'm eager to see how other changes will affect balance in general, particularly on the Alliance and Horde sides as I had already discussed the early mass Horde and mass Legion things before (Menethil goes light blue, Ironforge for yellow and purple, Dragonmaw entering Thrall's Horde). Early game will not be the same anymore, that will make a change.

Thanks again, and keep up the great work!

 

[D_King23]

IMPRESSIVE CHANGELOG!!It change so fast~*sob* xD
You actually did many things o_o except for something and still wow that twilight will start off dragonmaw clan!?Great dude!And more choices xD

 

[Yousef]

THAT IS HUGE! :O
Great, so you will finish this version very soon.

 

[StormWarriors2]

Interesting. Big update it seems! can't wait to try it!

 

[Spinel]

Amazing. I like the part of Silverhand. But quite understand if the player gets Ashbringer when he gets the Argent Dawn? And I must say that I'm a bit disappointed with the absence of story lines for Gilneas but the rest is just amazing and I hope you will continue this way. From me you have the greatest possible compliment and good luck to continue.

 

[Marshmalo]

Thanks guys! Yes I hope to have this released on Make Me Host on sunday!

That was cool to be able to transform acolytes in shadows on demand, when you caught glimpses of those dreadlords.

Otherwise, I'm eager to see how other changes will affect balance in general, particularly on the Alliance and Horde sides as I had already discussed the early mass Horde and mass Legion things before (Menethil goes light blue, Ironforge for yellow and purple, Dragonmaw entering Thrall's Horde). Early game will not be the same anymore, that will make a change.

Oh Cultists are supposed to have Shade Form! I have fixed this now so yes you will still be able to transform them into shades, however Scourges Shade form will require an Advanced Upgrade to use.

Noth is a Healer/Summoner support hero for Cult. Much better than Baron Barov I think, who was a painfully boring hero to play.

Zanrhun, some of your ideas have been really helpful for this update and I will revisit them in later version, particularly when designing Outland events.

Regarding mass Legion and Horde alliances, there's should hopefully be less now Trolls loose horde membership if they Go Animal gods and Forsaken looses alliance with Legion if Blood Elf accept the fel pact. I hope this has the desired effect ingame.

Amazing. But quite understand if the player gets Ashbringer when he gets the Argent Dawn?
And I must say that I'm a bit disappointed with the absence of story lines for Gilneas but the rest is just amazing and I hope you will continue this way. From me you have the greatest possible compliment and good luck to continue.

He can Forge The Ashbringer as Silverhand with Tirion Fordwing, he can also do so with Morgraine as Scarlet Crusade. But if Mograine dies he is ressurected as an Undead hero by Kel'Thuzad and the Ashbringer is corrupted and owned by Cult Of the Damned.

I read your ideas for Gilneas/Worgen events and meant to reply back ages ago. As much as I like them the problem is all the events will need to take place inside the Gilneas region and it's really a very small region to fit events in. They have no events outside of Gilneas so I can't give them achievements for killing certain quest units or reaching certain points on the map (Like Sylvanas discovering the Val'kyr event).

In the lore Gilneas/Worgen don't seem to have done much outside of Gilneas.

Nor do they have any powerful god like units to summon like Twilights has Deathwing etc for late game. They are a very difficult faction to work any events into.

 

[StormWarriors2]

Thanks guys! Yes I hope to have this released on Make Me Host on sunday!



Oh Cultists are supposed to have Shade Form! I have fixed this now so yes you will still be able to transform them into shades, however Scourges Shade form will require an Advanced Upgrade to use.

Noth is a Healer/Summoner support hero for Cult. Much better than Baron Barov I think, who was a painfully boring hero to play.

Zanrhun, some of your ideas have been really helpful for this update and I will revisit them in later version, particularly when designing Outland events.

Regarding mass Legion and Horde alliances, there's should hopefully be less now Trolls loose horde membership if they Go Animal gods and Forsaken looses alliance with Legion if Blood Elf accept the fel pact. I hope this has the desired effect ingame.



He can Forge The Ashbringer as Silverhand with Tirion Fordwing, he can also do so with Morgraine as Scarlet Crusade. But if Mograine dies he is ressurected as an Undead hero by Kel'Thuzad and the Ashbringer is corrupted and owned by Cult Of the Damned.

I read your ideas for Gilneas/Worgen events and meant to reply back ages ago. As much as I like them the problem is all the events will need to take place inside the Gilneas region and it's really a very small region to fit events in. They have no events outside of Gilneas so I can't give them achievements for killing certain quest units or reaching certain points on the map (Like Sylvanas discovering the Val'kyr event).

In the lore Gilneas/Worgen don't seem to have done much outside of Gilneas.

Nor do they have any powerful god like units to summon like Twilights has Deathwing etc for late game. They are a very difficult faction to work any events into.

You could make it so that any race that dies immedately inherits gilneas. But after all their events have been accomplished for that particular race. Just an idea!

 

[Spinel]

I read your ideas for Gilneas/Worgen events and meant to reply back ages ago. As much as I like them the problem is all the events will need to take place inside the Gilneas region and it's really a very small region to fit events in. They have no events outside of Gilneas so I can't give them achievements for killing certain quest units or reaching certain points on the map (Like Sylvanas discovering the Val'kyr event).

In the lore Gilneas/Worgen don't seem to have done much outside of Gilneas.

Nor do they have any powerful god like units to summon like Twilights has Deathwing etc for late game. They are a very difficult faction to work any events into.

You're right Gilneas is not much of a landscape. If you do map to Cataclysm, I think you should remake map of Gilneas. And some events may have Gilneas outside the Greymane wall. For example Attack on Sepulcher (if it is lost) or something like a hunt for Sylvanas. He could also lose Shadowfang keep and attempt to retake it. Or do the research assistance of 7th Legion.
As the Horde can call Garosh Helscream as Warchief, Gilneas could gain the support of King Varian as a hero.

Sorry for my English ... I am a student.

 

[Forsaken]

You're right Gilneas is not much of a landscape. If you do map to Cataclysm, I think you should remake map of Gilneas.

I agree with this, Gilneas are cited as a impernetable land, and think better, if Dalaran choose Worgen, they can be attack by 3 sides, in my opinion, you should remove the port in the city, and rework the terrain of Gilneas (not that is bad,but could be better)
And in this next version the dwarven will have the option to do to Dark Iron, right ? Of this i want talk too, and Dalaran, if Silverhand became Scarlet, Blood Elf join in the Horde or Became Fel Elves, and Dwarven go to Dark Iron, they will be "kicked" of the Alliance, and Dalaran, will stay alone? Or are you thinking in something ?

Another thing that i see, the troll move so quickly, and with Zul'jin Endurece aura, they become "imortals" and they a good regeneration already, i think the update of speed is unnecessary. Also, the troll can have 2 powerful heros, that if work together can be better then the Lich King or Deathwing, i know that if they want summon the animals god, they will be kicked of the Horde, but they still stay so stonger. (i say this cause i already play with troll and against them)

The last thing, the player just could ally with event, without type: -ally "faction name" (if they are going to lose, let they lose, it's just a game, don't ruin the game making massy allies)

 

[Zanrhun]

The last thing, the player just could ally with event, without type: -ally "faction name" (if they are going to lose, let they lose, it's just a game, don't ruin the game making massy allies)

This I wanted to talk about for a while. Your map is based on actual lore and that's why most of us love it really. I never understood this possibility given to players to ruin games just typing "-ally w/e". It is possible in every strategy map I can think of (non-LTA games being just not played anymore), but I fail to see the point in it.

How many times did we loose to Scarlet crusade allying with Twilight's Hammer, Legion with Twilight's Hammer, Naga instantly coming back into the Alliance or any nonsense alliance you can think of?

If a player lost well sorry but that's it. As it is, only Scourge, after having lost the Lich King, is really over. Any other faction can just find an ally and restart from scratch (mostly with heroes). Not gamebreaking you'd say, but when we talk Cho'gall, Dreadlords and such, that actually makes a difference in fights between two major and nearly balanced powers.

Apart from Scourge aligned factions and Twilight's Hammer (things being different for the later as it can now get into the Horde), the perimeter of the alliances changes a lot throughout a game (think about Blood Elves' switching allegiances, Forsaken starting with Legion, going their way then entering the Horde and so on). You really don't need other means to change sides.

Straight to the point, this command brings nothing to the map except ruining it from both a lore (ok this is pure crap lorewise) and gameplay point of view.

You should really consider getting rid of it entirely.

 

[Go'el]

I have a question, the newest version is the "LORDAERON: The Aftermath v1.14" right ?

 

[Forsaken]

I have a question, the newest version is the "LORDAERON: The Aftermath v1.14" right ?

Yes, it is

 

[Zanrhun]

Or do the research assistance of 7th Legion.

I like this idea very much, though I'd rather have High Commander Halford Wyrmbane as a new hero for Gilneas. He was the guy in charge and the one actually responsible for pushing the Forsaken back. You could add units like 7th Legion scouts, submariners and dwarven infantry (as in WoW) and even give Gilneas a logical naval presence with submarines and such (there's a model for these in Wc2 you could improve). Lorewise, Gilneas had a navy that could nearly compete with that of Kul'Tiras during and after the Second War.

I guess such an event is rather easy to add as there is no terraining necessary. To get further down that path, you could even have purple's version of "Assault on Northrend" as Wyrmbane was also in charge there, adding a little base in Dragonblight, where there is still much room. I know it all happened the other way around in lore (WotLk > Cataclysm) but that wouldn't be too much of a tweak, I guess. That would give Gilneas the possibility to help on the front against the Scourge, when the Alliance decides the time is right.

Alternatively, with Wyrmbane dead (or not summoned) and Gilneas city destroyed, you could give purple a second chance with Arugal siding with the Scourge, adding a little base along the Grizzly Hills' coast (South of Gundrak), where there is still little room. I know that would be vulnerable to naval and trolls assault, but that's where it is (more to the point, if Scourge hasn't gotten rid of Gundrak by the time purple comes in, he's doing it wrong).

I feel events like these would add much flavor to Gilneas, which I agree needs it in order to be, if only a support faction for Dwarves and Silver Hand, at least a good one and much more fun at that (without causing too much trouble with terraining or such).

 

[Marshmalo]

Ok I have (relucantly) walled off the seaport in Gilneas City to make the area easier to defend and I agree Gilneas needs more mid game to late game events.

In response to events for Gilneas, I have been researching wow events and have now included a new mid-game Quest: Rescue Lorna Crowley. You will get this Quest once you have reinstated King Genn Greymane, you must bring a hero to the Forsaken base of Sepulcher to free Lorna, then you must escort her safely to Gilneas city.

As a reward you get a gold/lumber award plus a new hero: Darius Crowley.

I like the idea of 7th Legion scouts and Submarines for Gilneas and they won't be too difficult to include, previous versions of LTA actually included Submarines but they were since taken out. The scouts will be good to provide true sight so Worgens can see invisible units.



I'm looking up lore but the 7th Legion dosnt seem to have any connection to Gilneas?

Do you think Arugral joining with Scourge would be non-lore compatable? Some people really don't like the bits where I've bent lore a bit (like the Absorb the SDunwell event).

I have a question, the newest version is the "LORDAERON: The Aftermath v1.14" right ?

Yes, the next version, V1.15 is coming out on make me host on Sunday 19th.

This I wanted to talk about for a while. Your map is based on actual lore and that's why most of us love it really. I never understood this possibility given to players to ruin games just typing "-ally w/e". It is possible in every strategy map I can think of (non-LTA games being just not played anymore), but I fail to see the point in it.

How many times did we loose to Scarlet crusade allying with Twilight's Hammer, Legion with Twilight's Hammer, Naga instantly coming back into the Alliance or any nonsense alliance you can think of?

If a player lost well sorry but that's it. As it is, only Scourge, after having lost the Lich King, is really over. Any other faction can just find an ally and restart from scratch (mostly with heroes). Not gamebreaking you'd say, but when we talk Cho'gall, Dreadlords and such, that actually makes a difference in fights between two major and nearly balanced powers.

Apart from Scourge aligned factions and Twilight's Hammer (things being different for the later as it can now get into the Horde), the perimeter of the alliances changes a lot throughout a game (think about Blood Elves' switching allegiances, Forsaken starting with Legion, going their way then entering the Horde and so on). You really don't need other means to change sides.

Straight to the point, this command brings nothing to the map except ruining it from both a lore (ok this is pure crap lorewise) and gameplay point of view.

You should really consider getting rid of it entirely.

I understand your points but let me explain why the alliance system is in place.

I have allways aimed to give players as many options as possible, thats why each race has different paths and options available to them. This keeps the game fun and unpredictable and increased re-playability.

I don;t want players to leave the game just because they feel they have "lost" I actually want them to find ways to survive not force them to leave, finding new allies is an important part of this.

It's not fair to have a players game ruined just because his ally is either a complete noob or has left, for races such as Cult of Damned/Scourge they need to be able to find new allies should this happen to them.

It can also act as a balancing mechanism, as if one faction is getting too powerful the others can ally and band against him, this isnt against the lore as didnt Horde ally Alliance during the 3rd war to fight the Legion?

I know some people may use it to make stupid or unfair alliances but I hope most people use this alliance system fairly. When I'm playing I am careful not to ally any powerful factions and often if I think we're getting too powerful I'll even unally my allies and go solo.

I think the alliance system add alot to the game.

By the way Illidari should NOT be to re-enter the alliance, if they've somehow managed to do this i need to know as it will be a trigger bug.

 

[Forsaken]

I'm looking up lore but the 7th Legion dosnt seem to have any connection to Gilneas?

They have connection, when the forsaken are attacking Gilneas the Alliance send the 7th Legion as reinforcement.

 

[Zanrhun]

They have connection, when the forsaken are attacking Gilneas the Alliance send the 7th Legion as reinforcement.

Exactly, with High Commander Halford Wyrmbane, leader of the 7th Legion, being personnaly in charge. He is a Paladin/Warrior. He succesfully helped push the Forsaken back beyond the Greymane Wall. He came in with submarines (to bypass Forsaken blockade) and the troops I mentionned previously (Night Elf/Gnome scouts, Dwarf infantry and mostly Human submariners).

This is the same guy that led the 7th Legion during the Northrend campaign, that's why I offered you give Gilneas an equivalent of Warsong Offensive to research, obviously after having received 7th Legion's reinforcements. This way, you give Gilneas an opportunity (and an incentive) to be present in Northrend when time is right for the Alliance to strike there. In Northrend, Wyrmbane was in Wintergarde Keep, in Dragonblight. In Northrend, the 7th Legion most notably features battle mages, which is fine considering Gilneas already has access to many casters.

Gilneas would thus become, just like his New Dalaran counterpart, the mainstay of Alliance power in LTA, being Gilneas/7th Legion indeed. I say this because purple has always been and will always be true to the Alliance, being the only faction with actually no means to leave the Alliance. As of scouts, stealth detection would definitely be a great addition for Gilneas.

Do you think Arugral joining with Scourge would be non-lore compatable?

It is actually canon lore. During WotLK, players discover that Arthas sent agents (the darkfallen princes) to retrieve Arugal's corpse in Shadowfang Keep. He then resurrected him as a ghost and installed him in the Grizzly Hills, where he could (and actually did) spread his Worgen curse on Human trappers there. Some Humans actually began worshipping him and thus the Wolf cult was created.

The main problem is there isn't much room in the Grizzly Hills to build his base (it could replace the Furbolg creeps you put there). I offered this because the perimeter of Scourge aligned factions (Scourge/Cult of the Damned) is static (there's absolutely no coming in or getting out) and Arugal, which is already in game, could make that change.

Still, I personnaly prefer the Gilneas/7th Legion thing. You previously asked for events/things to make Scourge's play less linear, though. That could be such a thing, along with a new Blood Elves' path (yet another one!) to go darkfallen, as I think I mentionned in a previous post.

 

[Spinel]

Maybe Dalaran not have access to Kul'tiras from the beginning of the game. Think about it ... Tandren Proudmoore left Kul'tiras with a whole fleet, plus I think I read somewhere something about the failed raid on Boralus by Bloodsail Bucaneers.

Dalaran / Gilneas could gain access to Kul'tiras after the destruction of an invading army. Map of Kul'tiras could also be a little rework.

But back to Gilneas. Rescue of Lorna Crowley I also quite liked it and I would definitely like to see more heroes for Gilneas (even at the cost of losing Arugal)

 

[Go'el]

Just one thing, don't you think that the Silver Hand has many heroes? it has the Tirion Fordring, Lord Garithos, Saidan Dathrohan, Prince Galen Trollbane and Alonsus Faol, while the Blood Elves, for example, have only two (even if they can ally with Illidan and stay with three...).

 

[StormWarriors2]

Just one thing, don't you think that the Silver Hand has many heroes? it has the Tirion Fordring, Lord Garithos, Saidan Dathrohan, Prince Galen Trollbane and Alonsus Faol, while the Blood Elves, for example, have only two (even if they can ally with Illidan and stay with three...).

Because most those heroes die, I would like to see Sunreaver get time in the spot light.

 

[Zanrhun]

Of this i want talk too, and Dalaran, if Silverhand became Scarlet, Blood Elf join in the Horde or Became Fel Elves, and Dwarven go to Dark Iron, they will be "kicked" of the Alliance, and Dalaran, will stay alone? Or are you thinking in something ?

Yes, Dalaran remnants are supposed to stand alone (or be able to, at least).

This is why New Dalaran gets an event to ally Wyrmrest Accord, so gets to field dragons along with a new hero, Kalecgos.

This is why Gilneas getting upgrades is being discussed, as Gilneas is definitely, as of now, unable to stand alone (and doesn't get fun events). As I already said, it is rather a support faction, which truly becomes a problem when every other faction in the Alliance has actually a path (or many paths) to leave it. There's been plenty of ideas around what new events and/or upgrades could be, so let's see how Marsh' manages to make Gilneas better in the odd case the Alliance completely falls apart.

As a side note, and in order to make sure at least one element of it goes his way, I would suggest you give red a timer before getting automatically kicked out of the Alliance (I don't know what that timer should be, though). It was not Kael'thas' decision to leave it, he was actually called a traitor, imprisoned and thus forced into exile. Blood Elves aren't supposed to stay in the Alliance, and I feel the Alliance is too good if the four players decide to stay together. As New Dalaran, it sometimes happens that I win a game with only Blood Elves and those two actually do pretty well; with Dwarves and Silver Hand, it's nearly unstoppable.

 

[Holymind]

Take your time, Marshmallow. You don't need to rush this map. We can wait for another week.

 

[7oda]

This looks promising your map is one of the greatest maps i have ever known so take your time good like.

 

[capanton]

Hey really like the new version!

Some small bugs i noticed:
-farstrider lodge is not unvurnable so any one can destroy it before someone can claim it
-Gnomeregan can not be destroyed or taken, it just resets its health and keeps attacking
-if you do "-events" for the dwarves it says you have to bring falstad to thundermar while in the intro text it says you need to bring magni.

Thanks for the great map!

 

[Spinel]

Can you please upload map on epicwar.com? I would try it single before multiplayer game.

 

[Kinglord]

I have uploaded it to epicwar.com. So here is the link:

http://www.epicwar.com/maps/238677/

 

[Go'el]

I have uploaded it to epicwar.com. So here is the link:

http://www.epicwar.com/maps/238677/

GREAT, already downloading

 

[Spinel]

Light bless you

 

[Marshmalo]

WARNING: It looks like someone had previously put up a version called V.1.14a on MMH. I don;t know what this as it it wasn't me, I don't know if its hacked or someone just messing about.

Unfortunately I could not fit the Dragonmaw Clan events in due to time constraints

But they will be in later versions.

Hey really like the new version!

Some small bugs i noticed:
-farstrider lodge is not unvurnable so any one can destroy it before someone can claim it
-Gnomeregan can not be destroyed or taken, it just resets its health and keeps attacking
-if you do "-events" for the dwarves it says you have to bring falstad to thundermar while in the intro text it says you need to bring magni.

Thanks for the great map!

Thanks! I will release a small bug fix today to cover these in version v1.16, patch notes to follow.

This looks promising your map is one of the greatest maps i have ever known so take your time good like.

Thanks so much I appreciate the support.

If anyone notices any other small bugs or balances issues with V1.15 please tell me so I can get them in todays hotfix. I will be playing the map alot myself on MMH today.

Heres what I've noticed needs changing so far:

HOT FIX NOTES

BALANCE AND GENERAL
• Abominations HP and Armour rating have been decreased.
• Twilights Clan Cultists can only summon a maxiumum of 20 Elementals.
• Amount of Dragons Summoned by Kalecgos has been reduced.
• Ironforge defenses have been increased (It was very easy for Yellow to loose this major city).
• Magni Bronzebeard now has a special ability castable only within Ironforge.






________________________________________
BUG FIXES
• Gnomegan now correctly changes owner when captured.
• Farstrider Lodge in south is invulnerable at start and goes to LightBlue when he becomes Argent Dawn.
• Kalecgos’s ultimate can not be cast on himself.

 

[Go'el]

Ironforge <3

 

[Spinel]

Maybe you should override unplayable locations by inaccessible terrain.

And one more idea for you. Can you remake Dalaran city as Ironforge? I mean Sunreavers and Covennant base inside.

 

[Go'el]

Bugs Found:

-Gnomeregan cannot be captured, it simply resets the HP and continues to Neutral Hostile.
-Farstrider Lodge is not invulnerable.
-The Light Blue Player does not gain control of Farstrider Lodge when it becomes Argent Dawn, but gains control of Quel'Danil Lodge.
-One of the 'Sea Crystal Defense' continues as Neutral Passive when the New Dalaran is captured.

Suggestion:

-You could improve Stromgarde with more Doodads, a better Terrain...

 

[Acadian]

I have a suggestion for Gilneas. How about give an event to arugal where he acquires the scythe of elune(said to be the what made the first worgen) through an event or reaching a certain level/researching something. Afterwards if he reaches a certain level and Sfk/gilneas is still alive he can resurrect the Ancient Wolf Goldrin. Goldrin is said to be the Father of the Worgen Curse and the scythe of elune one of his Fangs. It might beef up the worgen path for purple as this could be an endgame event goal.