Castle Fight 1.30

[dd_mn]

Thanks a lot for detailed flaw descriptions!
Will be fixed asap.
Linker should work. It's probably unbalanced and must work such way: when elemental unit is killed there is a chance to deal some damage to killing unit. If chance is triggered - effect must be shown (aerial shackles effect from dying unit to killing unit)

Map file is updated. Elemental legendary unit has normal armor and chaos attack. Sandkin's ability miss chance reduced to 25% (Monstrous sandkin's ability chance is 40%)

 

[CaptainHero]

SWEET! Awesome that someone is still working on this all time classic! Would love to join this project, got some ideas how to give each race a legendary "unit" and some other various tweaks.
5/5 Kick ass improvments so far!

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks! I appreciate any suggestions.
I myself do not play CF often and thus not always know if something is overpowered or underpowered.
I found that purchasable RS has added some tactical possibilities in the late game.
(last update fixes Harpy-witch steal life ability: because of error harpy did to much damage with this ability.)

 

[hangphyr]

Yeah definitely, those harpy witches were rough with the life steal.

Perhaps force the undead AI to not build a skull shrine as a first building? That results in a loss nearly always, unless others know of there ever being a good reason for a human to even do that.

 

[ravewarheit]

Perhaps force the undead AI to not build a skull shrine as a first building? That results in a loss nearly always, unless others know of there ever being a good reason for a human to even do that.

In the original CF it's a viable strategy in a full house game. Skull Pile covers both lanes so it's good if your team gets the first offensive.

On this map, building it first will usually end in defeat. So yeah, I like this suggestion.

 

[dd_mn]

I'll slightly decrease SS build probability tough I have not noticed that shrine as first building always leads to loose. There is a chance that AI will choose first building randomly and shrine COULD be partially useful in some rare cases (against suicide bombers or warlocks for ex.) I mostly use non-upgraded skeletons as distracting\slowing unit.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

maybe give the AI builder a blasting rod/wand?

also i really think you should nerf the damage on the harpy (desert plains) i think it does way too much damage early game

 

[dd_mn]

I've just fixed harpy-witch. Do you mean non-upgraded harpy? It's parameters (price\dps\hp) are similar to Wyvern-rider's.

 

[CaptainHero]

So my humble suggestions - so that each builder has the opportunity to build an ulti. unit.

Human: Arch Angle - upgraded Paladin, improved Devotion Aura, Devine Shield and Mass Resurrection - kick ass model from Frankster http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...i-50740/?prev=search=arch%20angle&d=list&r=20

Orc: Blade Master - upgraded Axe Master, Mirror and Blade storm
+ or Far Seer - upgraded Shaman

Mec: I liked the Idea of a Heavy Bomber (Zeppelin?), someone suggested it here - upgraded gyrocopter

Okok not to creative atm, I will come up with something better in the next days

 

[Bloody Wolf]

I've just fixed harpy-witch. Do you mean non-upgraded harpy? It's parameters (price\dps\hp) are similar to Wyvern-rider's.

i never noticed that before oh well maybe i just dont know how to actually counter it

 

[hangphyr]

Upgrade to treasure boxes, or decrease in price? The tax rate hits them hard, even early game, so generally they aren't worth the cost.

How about a -surrender command for ending the round?

Maybe return the human horn tower back to its previous state, where it gives a permanent buff rather than having an aura buff? I haven't found a use for that aura, seems like it could only be used if it's hidden behind a tower, and then there are better uses of gold and lumber.

Any thoughts on everyone starting the game with a free blast staff? It'd level the playing field with AI's more, and it'd make that first building fight every round a bit more forgivable.

 

[dd_mn]

I build TB when my team is pushing and income is high enough.
Here is the table of income boost for 1 TB:
Inc: 1TB boost:
25: +5,9
47,5: +10,3
67,5: +13,4
85: +15,0
100: +15,2
112: +14,1
122: +11,5
130: +7,5

I can adjust TB income boost or taxes or something else.
Current formulas:
TbIncome = BaseIncome*TbBoost(TbNumber);
Income = 1.05*TbIncome-0.002*TbIncome^2;
"-surrender" must be a vote command like "-draw" or "-nuke" but for team only.
I haven't changed Gjallarhorn mechanics and I cant get what building you meant
I can spawn free stuff for some mode ("-gfs"?) but AI needs sort of "stuff AI" to use stuff effectively. Try to play with "-cg" mode - it should help with wrong start (AI do not use gates).

 

[hangphyr]

Isn't the Gjallarhorn currently an aura rather than than applying a permanent buff to a nearby unit on a cooldown? Maybe I dunno what I'm talking about, I'll check it out later 8)

And yeah, a team vote is good for ending a round early. All players (AI's wouldn't count) would have to do it.

AI wouldn't really need scripting to use the blast staff, they're generally standing in places where it'd be fairly useful. The repair or buff aura items also wouldn't need scripting.

"-bs" for a free starting blast staff, something like that.

 

[dd_mn]

Gjallarhorn must increase attack speed (+50%) of max 5 random ally units in 500 range. Buff duration isn't limited.

I think "surrender" should work such way: Team loses a round if each human player of that team typed "-surrender".

P.S.: Map is updated.
"-surrender" and "-bs" were added.
Legendary Harpy's "split" ability is nerfed (chance reduced and number of harpies lowered from 6 to 5).
Heroic shrine additional unit chance is lowered to 20% (from 25%)

 

[hangphyr]

-surrender works fine

-bs doesn't work well though. It doesn't give a blast staff to AI players, and the blast staff starts on the ground instead of in inventory.

 

[dd_mn]

Maybe it would be better to create 2-4 guard towers near castle or near entrance?

 

[hangphyr]

There is no harm in trying it out in a game mode. The towers will have to be all the same, not race specific, due to unequal towers available. Maybe just generic 150 gold human towers.

One tower per player active on the team might be alright.

Edit: actually one tower per player is a lot of towers. Even two towers would greatly slow the pace down. I think a good goal is to prevent a very poor start from dooming a team in the first minute, but not slow down the chance to hit the castle for too long. The one tower start would also increase the value of siege units early. Maybe just one tower at the start?

 

[dd_mn]

Yes, I was thinking about towers similar to humans' tower but with smaller DPS and HP. Being spawned near the castle towers probably would live a little longer...I can also create a custom model for this kind of tower (to make it similar to the castle or to the wall). Another idea is to spawn such towers somewhere on the road, team which had done some amount of damage to those towers (or stand long enough nearby) captures it. Such towers would slow first pushes and wouldn't affect much mid\late-game.

 

[hangphyr]

How about machine race AI scripting to make use of power plants?

 

[Bloody Wolf]

How about machine race AI scripting to make use of power plants?

thats a good idea! i've never seen the AI use the power plants, and that would make it way more difficult to simply stomp your way to the castle

 

[dd_mn]

I can make mech's AI build PP but it would require some advanced construction placement logic. Of course I can try if it is necessary.

 

[Gekigengar]

What differs this with the original CF?

 

[hangphyr]

A bug: harpy matriarchs attack workers (but do no damage to them).

 

[dd_mn]

I suppose it is fixed now.

 

[sentrywiz]

EDIT (My Review):

As a huge lover of CF I can say that this has some merits, but its not that good.

PROS
-Single lane idea is interesting
-Bots are good, they even tell you what are they thinking of building which is great for combo strategies
-It has the castle fight feeling

CONS
- New races have some very suspicious abilities
(Like Quillboar has 50% melee reflect and its a level 1 unit)

- New races buildings have some really funky weird names
(Like Pillar of Elmo's Fire. Umm... what?)

- All new units that I saw have their description messed up badly
(No colors, little to no spacing... flat out lazy and bad)

- The names of bots or players are... random and disturbing at best.
(I mean, the Castle was renamed into Brain. WHY? HOW? To what purpose?)

SUMMARY

I applaud you for making your own version of CF.
I think all of CF fans should make their own version of CF, just to see some
interesting unit and building ideas.

But to a huge lover of the balance in CF, your version of CF isn't for me.
Still +rep for making it.

 

[forgottenmeat]

is there have an AI on this ?

 

[hangphyr]

Yeah, AI plays the map competently.

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks for review.
I hope suspicious abilities ain't really imbalanced. I think 1.14 balance is good but returning to the original balance is annoying task. Any willing to do this can just extract w3u file from map, edit it in WE and put it again into map file.
Descriptions and names are weird because english isn't native for former developers (and for me).
Any suggestions for AI names?

 

[Thingolus]

Great map and the balancing is nice too. I prefer it over the dual lane map!

 

[dd_mn]

I'm glad you like it. Yes, single-lane is easier to play and less players are required.
Last update info:
Desert race:
-Salamander can attack air and able to spit poison
-Sandkin is ranged unit now
-Ogre(Lord) has more HP
and other minor changes.

 

[Seekersilver]

5/5

i have played it before, and I like it. Having bots make it more fun even with a few people. I have not thought of what to improve, though.

 

[ijal]

can you add 2 more bots??

 

[hangphyr]

You mean allow the map to be 4v4? There are old 4v4 castle fight maps out there, but I've found 2v2 games are the most balanced and interesting.

 

[ijal]

but old map not fun and outdate
i like this new map

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks, I am playing 2x2 too...some specials and ultimates are imbalanced a bit because they were designed for 4x4.
I think 4x4 isn't nice for single lane, returning to dual lanes would require slight AI redesign.
Recent update fixes Defender self-heal bug(weird one).

 

[Ragnoras]

You should rebalance some demon nits like the Demon champion, he killed 4 of my (human) Guardians in 5-7 seconds!!!!!!

 

[Ragnoras]

you should rebalance your chaos champion cause they killed 3 of my guardians(human footman upged guy) in 5 or 6 seconds!!!!God!

 

[rainingshit]

Appreciate the effort to continue to Cf legacy, but please please try to follow his tooltip style. Gex mentioned on his forums before he is not open-sourcing the map because there will be thousands of low quality variations. I believe he stopped development because his thumbdrive that has the unprotected version spoiled. Not sure how you guys managed to edit his map.

I just checked, and the desert race is not polished at all.
-Really terrible tooltips (<- Important issue)
-Selection circle does not fit some units

Element/Nature race, some tooltips are terrible as well -> like that element blessing special building. The buff simply reads "burn enemy for 30dps".

Will be looking forward to newer versions.

 

[rainingshit]

Also on balance issue:
-Nature's ultimate building is way to OP, you can consider it a free mini rs every 40 sec.

the rest seems fine.

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks for responces, I'll try to fix those tips ASAP (tips don't bother me thats why I still didn't fix them).
Nature's ultimate isn't really tested and balanced, will be fixed as well.
I don't know what's wrong with chaos champion, it was ok last time I saw it
"Not sure how you guys managed to edit his map" - this map was recreated from scratch by former developers, of course unit data was dumped from original CF 1.14.

 

[Ragnoras]

alsovthe troll trapper can kill 2 wyrens in just a mere secinds if he has berseek on! God help!

 

[dd_mn]

Yeah, dat troll is pure evil when he kills something!

 

[hangphyr]

They cost a fair bit, I haven't found them to be too over-powered.

 

[Bloodly]

More time to select race would be nice. 10 seconds ain't much to even look at the tooltips.

It's interesting that the AI ALWAYS goes for a heavy-hitter(Usually ranged or flying, too), forcing you to do the same to counter.

 

[Ragnoras]

Add a new race that has litlle costs and uses overwhelming as a stradegy like an insect race

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Add a new race that has litlle costs and uses overwhelming as a stradegy like an insect race

this ^

 

[dd_mn]

New race is a problem, there are not that much unused units, buildings and spells left. Only if you help me by creating new race unit concepts (finding unused models that could be used for new race, think of its role etc)

 

[Ragnoras]

Hyou havent uesd hydralisk and neruban mdels

 

[Sunreaver]

What is there in this update ?

 

[dd_mn]

Some of them tooltips are styled and Nature's ultimate is nerfed a bit.
"you havent uesd hydralisk and neruban mdels" - I need models paths, 5-6 at least, same for buildings.