The Evolution of Zelda

[Radicool]

The Legend of Zelda

I decided to post this here because the gamers forum seems very dead. Forgive me!

Introduction

I grew up with Zelda on the Super Nintendo, and loved it so much, despite the fact that I was too young and my brother did most of the dungeons for me Eventually the Nintendo 64 came out with Zelda the Ocarina of Time which surpassed that game. To be honest, I still didn't do many dungeons myself because I was only 6 years old. I played it over the years and really enjoyed it. Then Zelda Majoras Mask came out. It was probebly my favourite game. I loved these games becuase the storylines, atmosphere and gameplay was just magnificant. However, I wanted to bring up something I've noticed and why I never really played another Zelda game after Majoras Mask.

This thread will be a bit nostaligstic for all the Zelda fans, but maybe they'll provide some feedback on what they think of some of the newer Zeldas too :/ I mainly look at the atmosphere and the music the game has to offer.


The Zelda Games


A Link to the Past was the first Zelda game I played. It was a really fun game. It was limited by a 2d engine, but it was something fun, and I enjoyed every fight, dungeon and boss of the game. It excelled in many aspects.

Zelda A Link to the Past

Pictures

Music

This music was really special. From happy sounding music, to dark, to interesting. The music was very effective in this game.

Hyrule Field: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4MhlyFwmrA
Dark World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sslj06K-Nlw
Dungeon Music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVWpFXtHhPc
Hyrule Castle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CADHl-iZ_Kw

The Ocarina of Time was a revolutionary game. It was the first 3d style of Zelda. It is one of the minority of games that incorporates music into the gameplay which further highlights the music's success. Not many games do this. What do I mean? To actually progress properly in the game, you are frequently using "warp songs" you play songs with the game in order to progress.

The game had an interesting storyline which I found interesting. I actually watched the cinematics and was pulled in by this. Not many games really worked on the storyline. It showed Ganon's plans, motives, and goals. I wasnt a typically, Ganon is back and hes taken over. Stop him. The character Ganon was built over over the duration of the game, featuring many climatic points (such as when Link gets the Master sword and Ganon's corruption is clear).

Zelda Ocarina of Time

Pictures

Music

Zelda Ocarina of Time had some of the sweetest and emotional songs in any game I've seen.

Amazing Songs

Title Screen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MD__K-nm4Q
Hyrule Field: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8Y7hdD6Qk
Warp Songs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIJg5iXhrJk
Gerudo Valley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy0aEj85ifY

This is when the Game Shows Some Balls

Shadow Temple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8H5DFyv4s4
Forest Temple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmsZyC0UXUU
Ganon's Last Battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmL3xSeAmsw

There is seriously something very special about Majoras Mask. No game has given me the experience that Majoras Mask had to offer. It wasn't just scary. It wasn't neccicarily gory. It had something very twisted. Very unusual it in that made it so great. Some people say the music on Majoras Mask reminds them of drug addictions. Music that has a certain feel to it can have these kinds of effects. The way the atmosphere looks, its something that I cannot compare to another game. From an overlook, it can appear confusing. However, the story of Majoras, the feel, can be something special.

Majoras Mask

Pictures

Music

It's hard to explain how Majoras Mask music is. It's very unique. The music invokes powerful emotions. It represents the darker and confusing world that I spoke about earlier.

Badass Music!

Termina Field: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNj8N_HBh-Y
Ikana Castle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stOk2nqUHFI
Potion Hag Shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smC_IFG7jKE
Boss Battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QagEzXM0RlM
Pirate Fortress: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSebXkNl5H0

Unique Interesting Music

Oath to Order: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB_sZA2pJdc
Astral Observatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNrscobacCg
Majoras Theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ_BQX88g0k

The New Zeldas

I dont beleive the new Zeldas are that great. Twillight Princess was alright. But a lot of Zeldas are becomming cartoony and childish and have been that way ever since the release of the Gamecube and DS versions. I will release some images on these too a little later. For now I was curious as to see people's thoughts.

 

[SA Dashie]

I also enjoyed the early zelda games myself.
Yeh the only later released game that I like is The Twilight princess.
Any other later games don't have the same kind off feel to them, with the line that the characters are given... They are rather childish.
Also kind off the same with the story lines themself.

I never had anyone to help me through the games myself. Which is what made it all the much more special for me.
Although I only actual started to make some actual smooth progress when I was about 12 years old. which is cool. I like going back to games with knowing that I have something new to do that I couldn't do the previous time.

 

[Radicool]

I also enjoyed the early zelda games myself.
Yeh the only later released game that I like is The Twilight princess.
Any other later games don't have the same kind off feel to them, with the line that the characters are given... They are rather childish.
Also kind off the same with the story lines themself.

I never had anyone to help me through the games myself. Which is what made it all the much more special for me.
Although I only actual started to make some actual smooth progress when I was about 12 years old. which is cool. I like going back to games with knowing that I have something new to do that I couldn't do the previous time.

Yeah, I was too young when all the Zeldas mentioned above came out. I played them but never really got anywhere, but still found them fun. About 2 years ago (I was 16), I decided to play the three again and managed to finish them all. I found them all to be really fun, exciting and great experiences. My favourite has to be Majora, probebly because it touched me the most and made me think a lot about it. Not just the puzzles, but about the character's, storyline and themes, etc. Was a great game.

 

[Phraz]

Please do elaborate further as to why you think "the new Zeldas" are childish.
And I won't take the choice of art direction for a reason.

 

[Radicool]

Why not? I can ellaborate a lot of why the old Zelda's were much more mature than the new Zeldas. Are you a big fan of the New Zeldas?

 

[Phraz]

Because judging a game just by the way it looks is incredibly shallow and this broad paragraph about the new LoZ -games leads me to believe that it's exactly what you are doing. I should've taken the warning in the original post but then again I don't like the stench of nostalgic bias.

Now, how about that reasoning? :>

For the record, the only Zelda games I don't like are the CD-i ones (obviously).

 

[Radicool]

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away.

Because judging a game just by the way it looks is incredibly shallow and this broad paragraph about the new LoZ -games leads me to believe that it's exactly what you are doing. I should've taken the warning in the original post but then again I don't like the stench of nostalgic bias.

Now, how about that reasoning? :>

For the record, the only Zelda games I don't like are the CD-i ones (obviously).

Well, I never said that the new Zelda's are bad games. I am simply saying they dont really match the quality of the old games. I didn't really want to focus this thread on why the New Zelda's are bad, but what people thought of the new ones compared to the old ones and I gave my opinion.

Because judging a game just by the way it looks is incredibly shallow

No its not. The look, style, art direction is all very important. Cartoony is in fact a more childish approach to a game in most cases. I will post some pictures of the new Zeldas a bit later. I think just by looking at these pictures you get a good understanding of the seriousness of the games.

I should've taken the warning in the original post but then again I don't like the stench of nostalgic bias.

I'm not one to bathe in nostalgic thoughts. I try to provide reasoning in my points. However this thread isn't really about attacking the New Zelda's, its more of an interest thread, asking people what they think of the new zeldas verses the old zeldas. I simply gave an opinion, rather than an alalysis. The pictures and songs I posted is all an elaboration of my point.

games leads me to believe that it's exactly what you are doing.

Again, I stated my opinion. I'm curious to see others. I'm not neccicarily attacking the new Zeldas or beleive they are bad games, they simply do not match the quality of the old Zelda games.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Twilight Princess is easilly better than Ocarina of Time. Not only is it visually better but the story line is far superiour and emotional. Minda has that dark humorous personatliy that no other Zelda games have recreated as a supporting character (she was physically opposed to the order Link was destined to uphold yet she still helped you). One cannot deny how ammusing Twilight Princess is at times. This game also showed the strongest romantic relationships with Link. His actual firl friend was not Zelda, but someone from his Village. All throughout the plot he would look at the various Women he saw along the way. Even when Minda was restored from an Imp Link looked at her in that... way... No other Zelda game has showed Link looking at Women in general in this way. This game also has its merrets as the only Zelda game where Link becomes a wolf and does everything people expect a wolf to do in a game. One cannot deny how silly it is to see Link as a wolf shaking dirt off his coat after digging or how he pants like a real dog when running. This all leads to link being rather "Animalistic" as he is highly attracted to the opposite gender and is shown to act very dog like.

Ocarina of Time was ground breaking for its time. Such large open 3D spaces with virtually no "fog of distance" were unheard of at the time. It also set the foundations for 3D Zelda games that still is in use. On top of that it gave Gannon an actual image for his original form, the form which was only spoken about in A Link to the Past and that for is Gannondorf. Gannondorf has gone off to become an iconic image of the Zelda series and you will often see his humanod form on various artwork. Before this game we only had Gannon, a pig like demon who could effortlessly wield over-sized weapons and use dark magic.

Majora's Mask is the current odd-ball of the series. It is the only main-stream Zelda game to not feature Gannon/dorf in some form. That said it had one of the most tragic plots of the Zelda games (only matched by Twilight Princess). No other Zelda game has recreated the scene of destruction when the Moon obliterates Clock Town if you fail to play the "Song of Time" before the timer runs out. It is also the only main-stream Zelda game where link does not get the Master Sword, neither does Link have the ability to wield it. One of the key features of it is the finite time space, an element that few games have used and been sucessful (Final Fantasy 13-lightning returns will use something similar later this year). It is also currently the only game to feature "Fierce Diety Link", the most powerful link form ever created which is capable of effortlessly destroying anything with some un-named sword.

Wind Waker has by far the best combat of all Zelda games. Controls were intuitive, easy to use and highly effective. Visually it was also cutting edge at the time since cell shading was still very new and the LoD system used was mostly unheard of until TES Oblivion many years later. It also featured an interesting story where Gannondorf was not the incarnation of evil. He wanted Hyrule because he liked the land, the "Wind" that was there and not because he wanted to take over the world with darkness. It also was the only main-stream Zelda game to feature link still as a child being the hero that saved the world (usually he was a young adult). Sadly it was made difficult by awkward controls and slow sections. The Wii U HD remake looks promising and will allow the game to compare with other Zelda's graphicly (since it can go all out on model meshes without worrying about LoD load).

Skyward Sword is by far the most difficult 3D Zelda. Not only do you have to time attacks, but also control the angle of them to hit enemies or even avoid hurting yourself. It is also the only Zelda game so far to feature "fururistic technology". It showed the Master Sword and Demisie's sword as some form of computer, with highly advanced AI capabilites. There was also an enite faction of robots who were capable of very advanced AI functions as well as flight. It also was the first Zelda game to have Gannondorf as an incarnation of pure evil "Demise".

 

[Radicool]

Really nice review. Good read. Highlighted lots of areas that didn't really cross my mind.

This all leads to link being rather "Animalistic" as he is highly attracted to the opposite gender and is shown to act very dog like.

I think its really smart when games do things like this.

 

[Dr Super Good]

As we all know, there is a Wii U new main stream Legend of Zelda game in development (the Wind Waker HD is being developed in parallel as the game is at least 2 years away). Legend of Zelda games all try and be very unique, with Wind Waker having sailing, Twilight Princess Wolf Link and Skyward Sword with the computerized Master Sword and villain. The big question is what will this new Legend of Zelda have?!

We know for certain it will emphasise the Wii U's touch screen capable game pad. We also know that they are staying away from "ultra realistic" graphics as shown in the tech demo last year. But what will they give us instead so this game is not a "HD clone" of an existing title?

Here is the rundown of my hopes.

1. Coop play. Coop play has worked very well for Lego as it makes for great party piecies, especially in families with multiple children or when a parent also likes video games (which we are seeing more of in this day and age). It also was shown to work well in Four Swords but the need for specalisit and expensive hardware made it not really viable as well as the 4 link clone aspect being very boring and generic.

Imagine a stream lined 2 player coop based Legend of Zelda game where 1 player controls Link and the other player controls Zelda. We all know from various games that Zelda is a more than capable fighter and she has often assisted Link in the final battle with Gannon where Link could not succeed alone. It is about time she gets up in arms and joins Link on his quest as a second playable character. Armed with the Triforce of Wisdom and being a crack shot we can expect her in a range support roll using powerful magic, never seen before in Zelda games (as Link only had limited magical capabilities, usually from Fairies). She also has a Shiek form that was redesigned but never used for Twilight Princess that makes her into a highly competent melee fighter but seeing how Link is the one with the Master Sword it seems redundant for her to show off these capabilities outside of puzzles and one or two dungeons.

What is good is the main controller could allow non-split screen coop. When playing alone, she could be AI controlled like Zelda has been for many games (excpet she always follows you). It also solves that "I wish I could play" problem that happens if someone else is playing the game and you are watching.

2. Fierce Deity. A mask that was given to you on the Moon by Majora if you handed in every other mask in the game to his servants. This transformation could only be used in boss battles and shared the same mesh as Adult Link from the previous game. However he used a powerful 2 hand magical sword, as of currently un-named, that could fire powerful, crippling and homing waves of energy at the target for a minimal magic cost. The sword shape (had a hole in its blade) hinted that it was not meant to cut like normal swords, but instead be used as a focus for magical power (thus the powerful magical attack) His concept art was unique as well, wearing a breast plate instead of normal tunic and being strange and pale colours. Next to those visual and mechanical differences, he was capable of functioning just like young link (and presumably adult link if it was implemented).

This character is by far one of the least developed and has the most potential to be added to the plot line. His weapon also deviates from the standard Master Sword while still obviously being a legendary weapon (it could kill most bosses in a few hits, Major included). The magical energy shot from the 2 hand sword and no shield generally hints at a mage more than a fighter. Maybe the next link might need to master magic as well as swordsmanship and this is the magic version? Or perhaps he is a previous Hero of Time who, as evil was banished and the master sword put to rest, went on to seek other power and ended up with the strange magical sword? Is it even good or evil (as they said you were the villain when you got handed the mask)? An interesting area to explore that opens up a lot of unique plot devices and game mechanics as well as satisfying fans.

3. Gannondorf/Gannon as a good guy? This is a rather risky idea that will have many hardcore fans in arms seeing how he has been the main villian for most main stream games so far. However, he has a wonderful character design and has taken such rap as the "bad guy" for over 20 years that it is about time he gets a break and a view from a different angle. He is more than capable of being a good guy as seen is Super Smash Brothers where he tried to turn on Tabu (Who's insane power statuaries him instantly).

How he helps Link (who is obviously the main character) is up to the story writers. Perhapse the evil soul (Demise?) gets tired over time and gives up being evil for some other purpose (as it knows it cannot win as a hero will be born to stop it as has happened countless times before). Like Courage and Wisdom, perhapse Might has its own "good side" to it which helps Gannondorf over come the evil that he was born to perform. Or maybe some bigger evil comes and Gannondorf, Zelda and Link agree to a cease fire until it is over. No mater what is choosen, I do feel that it would do Gannondorf some justice to be developed as a character, instead of the generic villan who has been responsible for most of Link's quests.

 

[Radicool]

I couldn't find much infomation about the HD version, but isn't it just a remake of the old Wind Waker that was released on the Gamecube? In which case, I dont see there being much content changed or added in the new version. It seems like a waste of time. Just updated graphics?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Just updated graphics?

That is sort of the point... That and it will take advantage of the Wii U controler for item management (no more pause to change items). We can also expect a variety of bug fixes although Nentindo prizes themselves are leaving bugs in for the hardcore gamers.

This is being made for release later this year. It is to fill the gap of Zelda games the Wii U has until the actual Wii U new Zelda game that is in production is finished (late next year?).