HIVE

I didn't mean that you're forbidden to terrain. I just meant that your map's script is a constant in Reforged transition and ergo most time-efficient subject to mod before Reforged:
x No refactoring required
x Tooling may be improved for other domains (foliage brush for terraining (e.g.), tailored model tooling in Reforged (promised))
x Community assets available only after release of Reforged

If you use vanilla texture your final products will not need any porting
And learning terraining is not only using the tool, it is how to design a map mostly for me.

I'm pretty sure you'll need terrain refactoring: look at the gameplay sneak peek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2zfx5hQ3CE
x Trees are more slender -> revealed area will look awkwardly plain
x Bridge doesn't have projecting and supporting structures at same points -> needs re-aligning with terrain/walls/etc.
x Can't use Jaina model because blood will rush away from brain to some lower body part -> kills the player

But yeah, if you're going to venture out into the scary world of terraining I wish you luck, any time is a good time to start. I just would personally wait a couple of months. :)

I don't think any of your mentioned point will be a problem if you keep built in model which will all be ported. It is the job of the graphical engine to be compatible between the two which is a feature they have to do to keep backward compatibility. Furthermore it is what they did with SC2.

As I told you in thousand years I'll never have an amazing terraining level. So better start now to be able to produce stuff. I've got a lot of trouble visualizing stuff so the more training the better I'll be when the real deal is there. It is more like training to design stuff than using a tool. It's not like the current tool I'll use is very complete anyway haha

Moreover reforged will probably be delayed for me since I'm a Linux player and it will probably take time for us to make it work perfectly.

I don't really understand what you mean. But I don't think we even disagree that, given chores of coding and the rest, it's more time-efficient to prioritize the former before Reforged comes around. Say it takes me T time more to plant foliage before advent of foliage brush (if such tool comes around, it's just e.g.), I've lost T from time in coding. It's like I waited for Blender 2.8 before learning modelling, because it's much faster to operate.

I think you're trying too much to put maths where it's not really relevant.
The skill I want to develop is how to design maps which can be worked on with terraining. Also I have no knowledge on terraining, so whatever tool I'm using I've 0 knowledge so I'll learn a lot.
Furthermore starting with a shitty simple tool can be quite good to learn (or at least for me it usually is true).
And fuck this shit I want to do maps lol

I know modeling will be wayyyyyyyyyy too hard for me I won't even try haha, and it is easy to find models that fit your needs more than terrain. So I think it is a more important skills in my current position.

Maybe we don't mean the same thing with terraining? When I think of you doing terrain for your map I think of you making something depicted here: https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/complete-list-of-terrain-galleries.134047/
Even when resorting to vanilla models, so delicately and closely placed assets would become a hodgepodge, would the contours of the models change even a tiny bit. And such change is indeed evident in the video I linked.

Lol as if I'd ever have the level to produce something. I have strictly no knowledge, I was even known for doing some of the worst test maps for my spells/systems.
I don't even know how to do proper cliffs XD
No my goal is to have basic skills/knowledges to be able to overall design maps. But at a very low level I'll never be good at it, it is not within my skills for sure.

That is the goal of the engine imo, and that is why I think it takes them that long. If they don't ensure backwards compatibility it will go against all of the modding. That would not be a smart move at all.

Shit I've been looking at these fabulous pictures and I already feel that I'd never be able to produce anything decent x)

Okay, then I guess whether you have a foliage brush is a total nonissue, lol.

I won't even try to get good at terraining. Indeed, it's not necessary in order to make an Ice Escape map, where the terrain *is* the gameplay; it must be specifically laid out, wherein little leeway for aesthetics is left.
And it's one of the reasons why my campaign idea was scratched in favor of a short story.

Oh definitely not, I don't even know what it is tbh hahaha
I just want to get decent to be able to do maps. I would never be an artist but I just want to be able to do maps with decent terrain, good enough not to be disturbingly bad you know. I know that's kind of a low goal but it's still a goal I guess x)

Ahaha you have some campaigns idea? I mean everyone has its type of map for sure, and also the type of thing he can/want to do. Always so different for sure.

Did you start your project?

I made a thread about campaign idea in January, but now it's transformed into story: https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/what-if-archimonde-had-conquered-mount-hyjal.311670/

The rhythm game / Ice Escape hybrid, however, will involve WC3 and messing around with Lua. Right now I'm familiarizing myself with a Lua VSCode plugin that allows me to annotate various types (params, returns values, classes...). I get completion list and code analysis off it. It's like I'm writing statically typed language again, yay!

Ahah some of the comments are actually quite disturbing.. some people only know about the new WoW lore (which is terrible post Wotlk and even Wotlk wasn't the best).

I have trouble figuring out the gameplay right now tbh.
Ahah you maniac XD

And conversely, I haven't really played WoW so my sources for WoW lore stem from... a dark place (*clears throat* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcf8s3Q_2YY).

You could draw inspiration from vanilla campaigns. In my opinion they're very well built. Level design, timing of events, quest structure, gradual techtree familiarization, story...

It is the game that took me most time, I played since Vanilla until Cataclysm in official servers (yes I started at 8-9). I came back after a few years hiatus on private servers, and have been a Guild Master/Raid Leader there haha
I've always been a huge fan of the Warcraft series lore until post Wotlk which hurt my soul in the deepest places
Ahahah nice dark places, even Lovecraft would not be able to convey such loathsome places

I was talking about your rhythm game / Ice Escape gameplay haha

I've got multiple projects, be it campaigns or maps.
For now I'll start with what could be the first map of one of the campaign, because it is supposed to be a small map akin to the first maps of the vanilla campaigns.

Hmm I understood a word or two lol. Sorry I don't know MMO lingo.
Are you excited for WoW Classic then? :p

Oh yeah. Well, first before working on the rhythm aspect, I need to test how big a delay is in the WC3 cursor. Keyboard delay doesn't matter as long as it's constant (I can do hit test against previous map state), but if the player mouse isn't real-time it's not a rhythm game, it's just torture. See this: https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Beatmap_Editor/Song_Setup#overall-difficulty
On max OD with DT modifier, you have 13ms circle hit window for perfect score (300). That's barely 2 frames with 144Hz monitor. You need real-time mouse for it to be in those frames.

If the engine turns out too sluggish I can just do yet another Ice Escape. That's boring though, there's dozens of them already. ><

Edit: I have to use EVENT_PLAYER_MOUSE_MOVE and BlzTriggerRegisterPlayerKeyEvent, which are synchronized across players. So in other words I'm bound to have insane lag, lol.

Ahaha don't worry it's always the same I get quite enthusiastic, a lot of nostalgia there.
Kinda, I won't play because I decided to stop WoW nearly 2 years ago but I'll definitely watch some videos/streams about it.

I definitely did not understand anything in the link you gave me but understood your explanation afterwards haha
I don't really like rhythm games I guess.
I don't think w3 is accurate enough for this kind of game.
The engine will turn out to be too sluggish for sure.

Ice Escape is like when the terrain is slippery and you have to move through a path with located traps?

It's definitely a game which can take all your free time. So one should be cautious when 'trying' it out. I'm the kind which gets hooked to games so I'm better off keeping distance to WoW as well.

Yeah, it's a shame. It needs a tailored engine for peak performance for sure. In osu! every frame matters, as is evident here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb3vY1EIvEo
But ~50ms latency isn't too bad for slower beatmaps. Maybe there is a middle road between fighting against the limits of WC3 engine and having fun clicking circles to a rhythm.

Pretty much. You control one unit and, while on ice, it always slides forward. You avoid obstacles by turning the unit.

Especially since I really involved myself a lot in it.
I'm not really hooked to games anymore compared to how I used to be tbh.

You want to implement a full rhythm game inside W3? Wouldn't it be kind of limited? Maybe you can try to mix this with another type of game.

I'm sure there are possible innovation in the ice escape genre. I don't really much maps with this gameplay, and I'm also not a fan of this genre either so I can't really help you haha

It would be limited for sure. Maybe my effort will be vain. I'll see how it'll turn out.

Yeah for sure. I can think plenty off the spot, even. It's just that my intention was to mix Ice Escape and rhythm game elements for a totally unique experience.