Tauer's Models 2.0

[Forsaken]

Oh, it's amazing!

 

[Sellenisko]

It is really nice model...But I cant help myself, her hips are too big/too wide. She is supposed to be Half orc half draenei, so she should not be as wide. Right now she looks like regular orc woman. Quality of the model and texture is perfect, no doubt about that, but the model does not fit the original description of her. Sorry, just had to write my opinion. I know you stick with the Samwise concept art, but even the concept art is more slim.

 

[Footman16]

It is really nice model...But I cant help myself, her hips are too big/too wide. She is supposed to be Half orc half draenei, so she should not be as wide. Right now she looks like regular orc woman. Quality of the model and texture is perfect, no doubt about that, but the model does not fit the original description of her. Sorry, just had to write my opinion. I know you stick with the Samwise concept art, but even the concept art is more slim.

I disagree I think it looks fine, any thinner and it becomes a little pointless.

 

[Hantoo]

Is it just me but i feel like female model will be more highpoly than male one

 

[Footman16]

Is it just me but i feel like female model will be more highpoly than male one

Are you saying what I think you're saying? Lol.

 

[Hantoo]

Are you saying what I think you're saying? Lol.

Im not sure.... I think i didnt make any female model before, and i think might need extrapoly (or not) to get the slim and curves

 

[Footman16]

the slim and curves

I thought that's what you were saying.

 

[Tauer]

In the gif there are some glitching parts on her cheeks.

Just the gif quality messing up.

Is it just me but i feel like female model will be more highpoly than male one

Yeah, it took a few more polies because of the feminine curves and all.

It is really nice model...But I cant help myself, her hips are too big/too wide. She is supposed to be Half orc half draenei, so she should not be as wide. Right now she looks like regular orc woman. Quality of the model and texture is perfect, no doubt about that, but the model does not fit the original description of her. Sorry, just had to write my opinion. I know you stick with the Samwise concept art, but even the concept art is more slim.

On the contrary, the hips should actually be wider than the concept. The concept is from back when Garona was half-human. Now that she is half-draenei her hips should be a lot wider. They actually have pretty wide hips, as do orcs. So it makes sense that her hips would be wide.
Of course, you should state your opinion. I appreciate any feedback I get here. But I don't always agree with all of it

But the real reason is because as usual I try to exaggerate the features so it'll be visible from the ingame view. Garona is actually my most realistically proportioned model so far.

Just about ready to call it for the texture:

EDIT:

Finished her scarf:

Still not entirely sure whether I want to use it or not. I'm generally not a fan of masked units. But I'm quite satisfied with how the texture on it turned out. I'm considering using it but disabling it in the portrait.

 

[Zaljinzoo]

Holy crap! Didn't realize you'd come back again, otherwise I'd have commented sooner! Here I thought the Durotan model was fantastic already, and then you blow my mind completely with the rapid, amazing progress on Garona! Awesome work, man!

For the scarf dilemma, one possibility you could go with is make two separate models, one with scarf one without, and just include the scarfed version as the "portrait" file when you upload it!

Only thing I can suggest adding that you haven't already worked on would be some good ol' Draenic eyeglow. As I said on the previous version, the pupils still throw me off, but it's your model and you already know my opinion on that matter so I won't repeat it. XD

Eager to see more progress from ya, man!

 

[Deolrin]

I love the scarf. If you must remove it, I hope you at least add a version with it - on the portrait and otherwise. A dissonance between the model and the portrait would be a bit silly, though.

I kind of agree about the pupils. None of the WC3 orcs have pupils, and Garona, as a half-Draenei, has purple glowy eyes. That never really meshed well with me, but for some reason the pupils do look a little bit strange on her in particular.

 

[rambosunico]

Holy Shit! It's almost done! Can't wait to see it rollin'

 

[Tauer]

Holy crap! Didn't realize you'd come back again, otherwise I'd have commented sooner! Here I thought the Durotan model was fantastic already, and then you blow my mind completely with the rapid, amazing progress on Garona! Awesome work, man!

Hey mate, great to see you back! And thanks! I've been in total modeling mode the last week hehe, I love it.

For the scarf dilemma, one possibility you could go with is make two separate models, one with scarf one without, and just include the scarfed version as the "portrait" file when you upload it!

Great idea, probably what I'll do.

Only thing I can suggest adding that you haven't already worked on would be some good ol' Draenic eyeglow. As I said on the previous version, the pupils still throw me off, but it's your model and you already know my opinion on that matter so I won't repeat it. XD

I kind of agree about the pupils. None of the WC3 orcs have pupils, and Garona, as a half-Draenei, has purple glowy eyes. That never really meshed well with me, but for some reason the pupils do look a little bit strange on her in particular.

Hmm, yeah I see your points. I just never liked Garona having Draenei eyes.

Here's a comparison:

I do think that the glowing eyes look more WC3-like and also fits the lore better I guess. I just always liked the idea of making Garona's parentage more ambigious, giving her normal eyes but purple.
The glowing eyes really scream Draenei.

There's also the issue that glowing eyes takes away a lot of the emotion from the characters face, since a lot of the emotion is shown through the eyes.

But I'll probably end up using them anyway, since they do look better imo.

 

[Chen]

Another cool WiP! Could you change the color to bluish? it looks more fitting.

 

[Direfury]

Maybe you could set it up so whenever she uses an ability, those "Draenei Eyes" come out.

 

[Tauer]

Maybe you could set it up so whenever she uses an ability, those "Draenei Eyes" come out.

Could work I guess, but I think the inconsistency would annoy me.

Started animating:

Trying to keep her stance true to the artwork.

 

[SpasMaster]

Dem jiggling boobs... :X <3

 

[Tauer]

Dem jiggling boobs... :X <3

Hehe, of course xD

I think I'm calling it for Stand - 1:

Also had to do some tweaks for the mesh. I tested it ingame and she was waaay to tall and skinny. Looked weird.
She's still a little bit tall but it looks better now.

 

[Direfury]

Loving it so far.

 

[Tauer]

Loving it so far.

Thanks

Stand - 2:

Jiggly bewbs ftw xD

 

[Chen]

Fast work! Looking better!

 

[Direfury]

So what's the plan for her run animation? Something Demon Hunter-y with the reverse-grip blade up front, I assume? Would make sense; If you've got something that long in a reverse grip, chances are you'll be using it to block and counter-attack, like with tonfas.

 

[Tauer]

So what's the plan for her run animation? Something Demon Hunter-y with the reverse-grip blade up front, I assume? Would make sense; If you've got something that long in a reverse grip, chances are you'll be using it to block and counter-attack, like with tonfas.

Yeah, that's the plan. Same for the Stand Ready animation.

Stand - 3:

 

[Direfury]

So, what's the plan for the attacks? A lunging, sweeping slash with the blade, and other flash attacks like that?

Also, try fixing her bust when she's coming out of Stand - 3. Her bust moves a bit more than you'd expect, and a tiny bit sooner. Otherwise, great so far.

 

[Freddyk]

It's a detail but her bra lacks the part that goes below the arms to the back.
Also, i think you should make her knees thinner to have a better silhouette.

 

[Tauer]

So, what's the plan for the attacks? A lunging, sweeping slash with the blade, and other flash attacks like that?

Yeah, something along the lines of that. Also off-hand attacks with her other weapon.

Also, try fixing her bust when she's coming out of Stand - 3. Her bust moves a bit more than you'd expect, and a tiny bit sooner. Otherwise, great so far.

Good point. Fixed.

It's a detail but her bra lacks the part that goes below the arms to the back.

Actually, the bra goes up around her neck. It's a little hard to see because of the shoulderpads and scarf. But it's in the concept as well.

Also, i think you should make her knees thinner to have a better silhouette.

Eh, she's already skinny enough now. Making her even skinnier will make her stand out too much. Also, legs tend to be thicker around the knee area?

Stand Ready:

 

[Footman16]

Also, legs tend to be thicker around the knee area?

I'm going to go out on a limb (pun kind of intended) here and say no? Lol.

Either way, it's fine not realistic but then again it stopped being "realistic" from the very concept of an orcish assassin, I mean how many Orcs do we see in day to day life? Ergo the proportions can be within a circle of reason.

 

[Tauer]

I'm going to go out on a limb (pun kind of intended) here and say no? Lol.

Either way, it's fine not realistic but then again it stopped being "realistic" from the very concept of an orcish assassin, I mean how many Orcs do we see in day to day life? Ergo the proportions can be within a circle of reason.

Well, I haven't studied anatomy but it sure looks to me like a knee bulges out:

Hidden

It might be bulging in under the knee, but the knee itself should be thicker.

Not thicker than the thigh obviously, but thicker than or at least as thick as the shin.

 

[Deolrin]

Hm. I'm going to go ahead and say that she might be a bit too... Jiggly in Stand - 2.

 

[rcshaggy]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/prime-matron-125142/?prev=search=Succubus&d=list&r=20

The boob giggling kinda reminds me of this model and damn Garona is looking good.
Really hope we will see our Garona again in WoW, and not a Altered World Garona.

 

[Tauer]

Hm. I'm going to go ahead and say that she might be a bit too... Jiggly in Stand - 2.

Hehe maybe Again, a little exaggeration is never a bad thing in a WC3 model.

Attack - 1:

Damn, reverse-grip animations are hard -.-

 

[Direfury]

I'd suggest maybe having her lunge forward a bit more for that attack animation. Compensate for the obvious range issues the reverse grip provides.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

As someone else mentioned, the proportions on her hips are a bit off:
The thigh gap is way too large for a "bulky" woman. In fact, considering she has muscular legs, she shouldn't have a thigh gap at all. This makes her hips look very unnatural and manly.
Reducing the thigh gap might also fix her blocky looking ass in the process.


Also, why you no liek physics...?

 

[Tauer]

Okay guys, I'm gonna go on a small rant here. Note that it's not directed at anyone in particular, but rather a response to some of the criticism that I've encountered when making my models.

I don't know how many times I have to point out that realistic proportions/animations and Warcraft 3 are not a good fit. I've said this dozen times already, but it seems like people don't always listen.
Garona is in fact already way too realistically proportioned to look good ingame. I know this because I'm testing the model as I make it. She looks too skinny and tall compared to other female WC3 characters. If anything I should make her hips even wider, her hands/feet larger and her boobs bigger.

If I was to make the boob physics realistic I might as well leave them out, because the movement would be so minimal that it would not be noticable ingame. From the ingame view the change in movement would amount to one or two pixels, rendering it useless and a complete waste of animation. So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and exaggerate the boob bouncing. If anything they should bounce even more.
Why do you think the idle animations in WC3 are so exaggerated? Have you ever seen anyone moving that much when standing still? It's so it's noticable ingame.

You guys know I appreciate feedback, but please do not criticize it for looking "unrealistic". That is quite frankly ridiculous because it's not supposed to look realistic. If you knew anything about game art you'd know that the art style is much more important than realism. And the WC3 art style is all about ridiculously blown-out proportions and over-exaggerated animations.

It seems like the issue here is that when I post WIPs, you guys get used to seeing the model up close and therefore notice these things much more. Seeing it up close makes the proportion issues look weird and off-putting, but this is actually necessary for the model to look good ingame.

I'm actually quite worried about this model since, as I said before, it simply doesn't look right ingame. Her proportions are too realistic and therefore look off. Also animating her is proving to be a pain in the ass.
So yeah, this model is getting on my nerves a bit. I'm gonna finish it alright, but I'm probably not gonna be spending an insane amount of time doing it. I'd rather get it over with and move on to a model that I actually enjoy making.

Alright, rant over. Sorry if I seem to be bitching, but frankly I'm getting a little tired of having to say the same thing over and over again.

 

[Chen]

Actually it looks fine now, you aimed your models to have less polies since Grommash and you still did them great, so yeah, it looks pretty fine.

The bewbs are just fine too, though you need to keep it at least minimalistic, too much bounce may look hot but it will be more fitting for BewbCraft now Warcraft III.

 

[Footman16]

Well, I haven't studied anatomy but it sure looks to me like a knee bulges out:

Hidden

It might be bulging in under the knee, but the knee itself should be thicker.

Not thicker than the thigh obviously, but thicker than or at least as thick as the shin.

I was defending your proportions, I think they're fine as they are. I was just pointing out the fact that the model is not supposed to be realistic. I was also merely saying from a realistic stand-point that knees are (from my experience) smaller than the thigh and shin.

Also, perhaps an in-game screenshot would help us judge proportions if it as you say they're not looking right.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Fair enough. It's your model after all. Just wanted to give my comments on it.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Okay guys, I'm gonna go on a small rant here. Note that it's not directed at anyone in particular, but rather a response to some of the criticism that I've encountered when making my models.

I don't know how many times I have to point out that realistic proportions/animations and Warcraft 3 are not a good fit. I've said this dozen times already, but it seems like people don't always listen.
Garona is in fact already way too realistically proportioned to look good ingame. I know this because I'm testing the model as I make it. She looks too skinny and tall compared to other female WC3 characters. If anything I should make her hips even wider, her hands/feet larger and her boobs bigger.

If I was to make the boob physics realistic I might as well leave them out, because the movement would be so minimal that it would not be noticable ingame. From the ingame view the change in movement would amount to one or two pixels, rendering it useless and a complete waste of animation. So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and exaggerate the boob bouncing. If anything they should bounce even more.
Why do you think the idle animations in WC3 are so exaggerated? Have you ever seen anyone moving that much when standing still? It's so it's noticable ingame.

You guys know I appreciate feedback, but please do not criticize it for looking "unrealistic". That is quite frankly ridiculous because it's not supposed to look realistic. If you knew anything about game art you'd know that the art style is much more important than realism. And the WC3 art style is all about ridiculously blown-out proportions and over-exaggerated animations.

It seems like the issue here is that when I post WIPs, you guys get used to seeing the model up close and therefore notice these things much more. Seeing it up close makes the proportion issues look weird and off-putting, but this is actually necessary for the model to look good ingame.

I'm actually quite worried about this model since, as I said before, it simply doesn't look right ingame. Her proportions are too realistic and therefore look off. Also animating her is proving to be a pain in the ass.
So yeah, this model is getting on my nerves a bit. I'm gonna finish it alright, but I'm probably not gonna be spending an insane amount of time doing it. I'd rather get it over with and move on to a model that I actually enjoy making.

Alright, rant over. Sorry if I seem to be bitching, but frankly I'm getting a little tired of having to say the same thing over and over again.

Hm. Yeah, sorry to get you down, man. Hopefully we can all take this into account when offering our "criticism". : )

To be honest, before you pointed this out I was going to complain that the bosom-bounce was much too exaggerated, but I realize you're right. What's more, while you have done a superb job of translating the concept art into a great 3D model, I can see how perhaps it isn't quite ideal for in-game usage. I know you're in the middle of animating, but if you felt the need to mesh edit so it was better (wider hips & bust & hands), that would make total sense.

Keep on keepin' on!

 

[Tauer]

I was defending your proportions, I think they're fine as they are. I was just pointing out the fact that the model is not supposed to be realistic. I was also merely saying from a realistic stand-point that knees are (from my experience) smaller than the thigh and shin.

Right, sorry if I was too defensive.

Fair enough. It's your model after all. Just wanted to give my comments on it.

Of course, as you should. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, I think I was in a bad mood because I couldn't get the animations right.

Hm. Yeah, sorry to get you down, man. Hopefully we can all take this into account when offering our "criticism". : )

To be honest, before you pointed this out I was going to complain that the bosom-bounce was much too exaggerated, but I realize you're right. What's more, while you have done a superb job of translating the concept art into a great 3D model, I can see how perhaps it isn't quite ideal for in-game usage. I know you're in the middle of animating, but if you felt the need to mesh edit so it was better (wider hips & bust & hands), that would make total sense.

Keep on keepin' on!

Nah, you guys aren't getting me down at all. In fact I'm grateful that you guys are willing to give me feedback as it helps me improve my skills. An essential part of being a game artist is to be able to listen to criticism.

I just hope that in the future you guys won't use real life as a reference and instead bear in mind the art style of the game.

Anyway, I did some tweaks to the mesh and managed to get it to look acceptable ingame:

Still not perfect, but better than before. I made her feet and hands bigger. Also scaled up her bewbs, ponytails and weapons.

Before she was like a head taller than Arthas but a whole lot skinnier. She simply looked out of place.

Looking at it now her hips do look a little bit wide, but I think they should be wider than Jaina's seeing as she's half-orc and all.

 

[rcshaggy]

Not trying to make you pissed off either.
Just the boob giggling kinda reminded me of the Prime Matron, and still I think your model is much more better than that. Prime Matron is more sexual while Garona is gonna be more aware of herself.
Sorry if I made you mad at me Tauer. Keep up the great work!
Gonna add team colour glow as well for the model?

 

[Hantoo]

Right, sorry if I was too defensive.



Of course, as you should. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, I think I was in a bad mood because I couldn't get the animations right.



Nah, you guys aren't getting me down at all. In fact I'm grateful that you guys are willing to give me feedback as it helps me improve my skills. An essential part of being a game artist is to be able to listen to criticism.

I just hope that in the future you guys won't use real life as a reference and instead bear in mind the art style of the game.

Anyway, I did some tweaks to the mesh and managed to get it to look acceptable ingame:

Still not perfect, but better than before. I made her feet and hands bigger. Also scaled up her bewbs, ponytails and weapons.

Before she was like a head taller than Arthas but a whole lot skinnier. She simply looked out of place.

Looking at it now her hips do look a little bit wide, but I think they should be wider than Jaina's seeing as she's half-orc and all.

Maybe bulk up the upper part of her... I think that way it will fit the warcraft style more... I guess?

 

[Deolrin]

Looks good, but yeah, the hips might be a bit too wide now.

 

[Tauer]

Alright guys, it's done.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/garonahalforcen-268311/

Sorry about my little outburst earlier. Hope you like it.

 

[The Warchief]

Cool! The face is nicely done, I know that making female orc faces are really challenging since you have to keep them from going too masculine. Looking forward to Gul'dan! I can smell the Shadow Council forming. haha!

 

[marichal989]

Im in shock with these briliant models!! i am folling u since 1 year ago and i want to ask u if could u upload the alliance leaders models, or at least khadgar and terenas?? the are awesome!!

 

[Tauer]

Cool! The face is nicely done, I know that making female orc faces are really challenging since you have to keep them from going too masculine. Looking forward to Gul'dan! I can smell the Shadow Council forming. haha!

Thanks! Gul'Dan is definately coming at some point.

Im in shock with these briliant models!! i am folling u since 1 year ago and i want to ask u if could u upload the alliance leaders models, or at least khadgar and terenas?? the are awesome!!

Are you referring to Paladinjst's models?

Alright guys, it's time to get started on Zul'jin again. I'm gonna start over on the texture as my skills have improved a lot since then.

I'm also taking a second look at the mesh to make some changes.

I'm thinking of adding tusks that stick through holes in his scarf. I think adding these helps get that Troll-look through better:

If anybody has any constructive suggestions on alterations to the mesh, now is the time.

EDIT: Adding his WoW weapon. He'll probably have it on his back or belt. I'll make alternate and morphing animations, switching between throwing axes and melee.

 

[SpasMaster]

Seems really awesome for now! Looking forward to his animations, they will be the key to this.
EDIT: If you really want to go detailed, you can define fingers on the hands/feet/both. Troll fingers are kinda big since they have only 3 9and 2 respectively) of those. =D But that's just an idea, the lack of which would not decrease the overall quality of the model.

 

[Stefan.K]

What picture did you used for the reference? The mesh is looking quite good, it has that 'troll' feeling.

 

[Tauer]

What picture did you used for the reference? The mesh is looking quite good, it has that 'troll' feeling.

You mean the weapon or the body? If you mean the latter, I didn't really use any picture in particular. Just looked at a lot of forest troll pictures while meshing him out. Heinvers posted a particularly useful reference drawing a while back.

Seems really awesome for now! Looking forward to his animations, they will be the key to this.
EDIT: If you really want to go detailed, you can define fingers on the hands/feet/both. Troll fingers are kinda big since they have only 3 9and 2 respectively) of those. =D But that's just an idea, the lack of which would not decrease the overall quality of the model.

Great idea, I'm definately implementing it for the feet! The hands might be a bit much though, since they both will grip weapons it makes more sense to just make them fisted. Thanks

 

[SpasMaster]

Damn, the feet turned out awesome! And yes, I agree on your point on the hands - it would be barely visible.
EDIT: I'd also like to know that:

What picture did you used for the reference? The mesh is looking quite good, it has that 'troll' feeling.

 

[A Void]

Personally Durotan (Old) was better. Is it just me?