Round Table of Arkain

[Championfighter25]

So let us plunge the continet on a civil war...As if Demons Undeads and Orcs killing us wasnt enough let us kill each other...He seriously must have been a dumb ass then...There is no other explanation.Even if he got his own personal realm how could have he possibly survived the demons and orc raids i sure hope he did not rely on the empire helping him...After all the empire had been failing miserably up to that point.

You know Gardon may plunge the continent into a civil war too if his plan to revive Zyainor is exposed by someone else.

 

[King Tidus]

If he wouldn't have overthrown the king, he wouldn't have an army to stand with him, he would've been just one nobleman and maybe had his personal guard at his command...if he tried to fight the demons with that he would've been cooked

 

[DD Mikasa]

@Championfighter25

May with did are two different things.Plus at this point the only one ramping up victories against the invading forces is Gardon so he gets the biggest share of the cake after all the dust has settled...Retka tried to take his part of the cake without doing anything and before the external issues were delt with.

@King Tidus
He HAD to have some sort of personal army/levy to overthrow the king and his royalist forces i dont remember his trusted men being part of Golden Guard or at least an army strong enough to at the slightest give him some sort of credibility in the eyes of Van Douch for him to back up his claim to the throne.


Not to mention he invaided another kingdom of the Royal front (not sure but this one i have not replayed his missions in a long time)

 

[Championfighter25]

May with did are two different things.Plus at this point the only one ramping up victories against the invading forces is Gardon so he gets the biggest share of the cake after all the dust has settled...Retka tried to take his part of the cake without doing anything and before the external issues were delt with.

I know the difference. Im only saying if he isn't careful he can make a civil war they don't want. The Zyainor empire is supposed the bring unity to the continent, but annoucing you will revive it too early will lead to serious consequences.

Not to mention he invaided another kingdom of the Royal front (not sure but this one i have not replayed his missions in a long time)

I think you are talking about Toran. He managed to invade half of the kingdom and during the siege of it's capital killed the king.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Besides even if he leads the country on a civil war i doubt it would be during the curret wars with the Demons and Orcs.In Retkas case it was during the war with Demons.

 

[King Tidus]

@DD Mikasa I'm sure he had some small personal guard force, but I think van durce allowed him to overthrow the king because he knew other nobles who gotten fed up with the king who themselves would throw in their resources and forces to see that the king is overthrown, and Retka was in a position to not only overthrow the old king, but due to having favor amongst those who would help him do the deed become the new king himself, I highly doubted that Retka had a sizeable force before he dealt with the king, maybe he had a personal guard consisting of a few loyal soldiers, but a personal army -- no way

 

[LISBOAH]

I know the difference. Im only saying if he isn't careful he can make a civil war they don't want. The Zyainor empire is supposed the bring unity to the continent, but annoucing you will revive it too early will lead to serious consequences.

Especially if you proclaim yourself as its emperor and allied with black dragons.

 

[DD Mikasa]

I think you are talking about Toran. He managed to invade half of the kingdom and during the siege of it's capital killed the king.

Yup.That one.Arkain toponyms are way to compilcated for me

 

[King Tidus]

Also, look at the poll, Retka and his loyalist have gotten 16 votes, 3rd place after Larine and the Royals

 

[Championfighter25]

Yup.That one.Arkain toponyms are way to compilcated for me

Don't worry you can rely on the ''Arkain lexicon'' as Shar named me once to answer all your questions.

Especially if you proclaim yourself as its emperor and allied with black dragons.

And it was smart of him to send them and Thanok before the main army arrived. If they were there when the main armies arrived the bowmen of the royal armies would have shot them down. If he keeps this up there will be no problems.

 

[LISBOAH]

And it was smart of him to send them and Thanok before the main army arrived. If they were there when the main armies arrived the bowmen of the royal armies would have shot them down. If he keeps this up there will be no problems.

First: can bows shoot down dragons?
Second: I am more than certain that dragons can DOOODGEEEE!!!

 

[DD Mikasa]

You can vote for multiple targets on the poll.How much of those votes were to go to him in case it was a just one vote poll.The poll itself does not prove much if you ask me.

 

[Championfighter25]

First: can bows shoot down dragons?
Second: I am more than certain that dragons can DOOODGEEEE!!!

They shoot arrows and while harder arrows can shoot down dragons.
They can dodge, but that's not the problem. The problem is that if the royal armies saw black dragons just standing there and preparing to attack the enemies while cooperating with the Ironfist they would have become very suspicious of Gardon and ask him what is going on. He can't just answer ''well you see i have allied myself with black dragons'', that would sound way too suspicious. And since the royal armies sooner or later will find out that those are the black dragons that were a core part of the Zyainor empire they would have destroyed the Ironfist for allying themselves with creatures that supported oppression and tyranny.

 

[LISBOAH]

They shoot arrows and while harder arrows can shoot down dragons.
They can dodge, but that's not the problem. The problem is that if the royal armies saw black dragons just standing there and preparing to attack the enemies while cooperating with the Ironfist they would have become very suspicious of Gardon and ask him what is going on. He can't just answer ''well you see i have allied myself with black dragons'', that would sound way too strange.

What about he saying "I learnt how to put obedience spells on dragons so that they obey my every command"?

And since the royal armies sooner or later will find out that those are the black dragons that were a core part of the Zyainor empire they would have destroyed the Ironfist for allying themselves with creatures that supported oppression and tyranny.

Survival or opression. Your choice!

 

[Championfighter25]

What about he saying "I learnt how to put obedience spells on dragons so that they obey my every command"?

The problems is that his amulets don't work on animals. He could lie, but certain people with knowedge of history can recognise they were the same black dragons from the Zyainor empire. Then he would be screwed.

 

[DD Mikasa]

What about he saying "I learnt how to put obedience spells on dragons so that they obey my every command"?

 

[LISBOAH]

The problems is that his amulets don't work on animals.

How DARE you say that dragons are mere animals?!!!
They are sentient and rational beings and have names!

Thank you!

 

[Championfighter25]

How DARE you say that dragons are mere animals?!!!
They are sentient and rational beings and have names!

A animal is a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous systems. I didn't mean it to say they are stupid.
Ok maybe i was harsh, they are classified as mythological creatures that have certain features of reptiles.

 

[LISBOAH]

A animal is a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous systems. I didn't mean it to say they are stupid.
Ok maybe i was harsh, they are classified as mythological creatures that somewhat resemble reptiles.

I was just kidding
I didn't want to go all PETA!

But dragons, at least those that sided with Gardon, seem quite intelligent. Thanok disguised as a human talks and acts like the average human.
So would it be so ridiculous to believe that Gardon was capable of making them obedients in pretty much the same way he made the Ironfist obedient?

 

[Razorfang]

Damn when I played as van durce in ch6, I was like wtf? why is this guy so powerful, 2500hp, strong attack, he even has the holy grail, @Shar Dundred why did you make van douche so damn op?

 

[Championfighter25]

Damn when I played as van durce in ch6, I was like wtf? why is this guy so powerful, 2500hp, strong attack, he even has the holy grail, @Shar Dundred why did you make van douche so damn op?

I think his reason is that we are only going to play him in this chapter. When you give a hero so much power you don't make him appear in every mission.

 

[Razorfang]

Yea, and then going to fight against him in the finale, I suppose taking out van douche will be no small matter for gardon

 

[Championfighter25]

Yea, and then going to fight against him in the finale, I suppose taking out van douche will be no small matter for gardon

Don't worry then you can expect him with 5x times the stats. It's just bound to happen.

 

[Razorfang]

i dont doubt it

 

[Championfighter25]

So would it be so ridiculous to believe that Gardon was capable of making them obedients in pretty much the same way he made the Ironfist obedient?

The problem is that Gardon doesn't use amulets on his entire army, only on high ranking commanders. There are a lot of troops that are fanatically loyal towards him without wearing one. It is a possibility that he brainwashed them, but the dragons i think would serve him regardless, as long as he sticks to his plan of reviving Zyainor which he does.

 

[Razorfang]

You don't need to control everybody, just the high ranking people, or just a fraction of the people, has anyone here heard of the solomon ashe experiments ? if not heres a link Asch conformity experiments - Wikipedia

 

[ArchDuke]

Interesting material man. Garon's amulets however improve the compiance rate to 100% lol

Gardon and his amulets.

 

[Kasrkin]

Van Durce isn't as bad as he seems forcibly recruiting (saving) any and all who can join the Golden Guard. He doesn't have to do any recruiting but he seemingly does want these Kingdom rabble in his armies? Their orders are to evacuate any and all assets important to the Empire but who said anything about taking new recruits along? Perhaps a pang of guilt, he can't publicly save them but perhaps there is chance in the facade of an uncaring General wanting all avenues secured. But of course this is just a possible observation.

 

[Championfighter25]

Van Durce isn't as bad as he seems forcibly recruiting (saving) any and all who can join the Golden Guard. He doesn't have to do any recruiting but he seemingly does want these Kingdom rabble in his armies? Their orders are to evacuate any and all assets important to the Empire but who said anything about taking new recruits along? Perhaps a pang of guilt, he can't publicly save them but perhaps there is chance in the facade of an uncaring General wanting all avenues secured. But of course this is just a possible observation.

If saving means abducting by force people to train and become golden guard or die then you really have a strange POV. Then again though you share Shar's tyrannical and evil nature so should i even be surprised?

 

[Kasrkin]

If saving means abducting by force people to train and become golden guard or die then you really have a strange POV. Then again though you share Shar's tyrannical and evil nature so should i even be surprised?

He can't save them outright or tell the men but he could take the recruits with them rather than being left to burn.

 

[Championfighter25]

He can't save them outright or tell the men but he could take the recruits with them rather than being left to burn.

Oh im sure they have quite the nice vacation at the boot camp. Going to sleep at 5 am, waking up at 6 am, training 20 hours a day, learning for 3 hours how to be douches, getting screamed at by drill sergeants. Sounds like something the whole family can enjoy!

 

[Shar Dundred]

I'd take that over being enslaved by the Demons any day.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Oh im sure they have quite the nice vacation at the boot camp. Going to sleep at 5 am, waking up at 6 am, training 20 hours a day, learning for 3 hours how to be douches, getting screamed at by drill sergeants. Sounds like something the whole family can enjoy!

Still far preferable to death or enslavement. I don't think van Durce ever did anything that was outright evil, unlike some.

 

[Championfighter25]

Still far preferable to death or enslavement. I don't think van Durce ever did anything that was outright evil, unlike some.

If i was tortured all day for months on end just to become a golden guard then i'd rather kill myself. But yep it's at least better than becoming a demon slave.
From his POV he does what the emperor orders him so technically the emperor can be considered the main reason we hate him. Sad isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 238589]

If i was tortured all day for months on end i'd rather kill myself. But yep it's at least better than becoming a demon slave.

If you're referring to military service, you should remember that there are many who volunteer for it. It's not meant to be easy or comfortable, it's meant to keep you in shape so you can survive.

 

[Championfighter25]

If you're referring to military service, you should remember that there are many who volunteer for it. It's not meant to be easy or comfortable, it's meant to keep you in shape so you can survive.

If it was normal military service it would be ok. But his military service includes you being taken from your home by force, put on a training ground and being threatened to get killed if you don't obey. This can't be considered normal. Then again though this may not be his fault since he gets all his orders from the emperor.

 

[Kasrkin]

You know it is a bit odd how the whole Rebellion thing benefited Gardon and company.

 

[Championfighter25]

You know it is a bit odd how the whole Rebellion thing benefited Gardon and company.

I know right it's almost like Aridon had this all planned to happen... My avatar of death, it all makes sense now!

 

[King Tidus]

Well it's Shar's story, he can write whatever he wants in it

 

[Shar Dundred]

My avatar of death, it all makes sense now!

Does it now?

 

[Deleted member 238589]

If it was normal military service it would be ok. But his military service includes you being taken from your home by force, put on a training ground and being threatened to get killed if you don't obey. This can't be considered normal. Then again though this may not be his fault since he gets all his orders from the emperor.

It was normal in medieval societies such as those in Arkain. There were no professional armies like today so people were forced to do all the fighting. You could say that Golden Guard in a professional army to degree, but they were undermanned and it's only natural for the locals to help defend their homes.

 

[Championfighter25]

Does it now?

Nope, not yet!

It was normal in medieval societies such as those in Arkain. There were no professional armies like today so people were forced to do all the fighting. You could say that Golden Guard in a professional army to degree, but they were undermanned and it's only natural for the locals to help defend their homes.

Fair point. The Golden Guard are a professional army, their problem is that their morale is on the level of a ww1 soldier who spent 4 years in a trench. They feel like they are dying for people and a continent they shouldn't.

 

[ArchDuke]

@Championfighter25 good point regarding the golden guard morale

 

[Morris]

I.have this theory
Van Durce told Gardon that he lost the emperor's trust and stripped of all.his influence and power.
But suddenly, Retka rebels on orders from.Van Durce who promised Retka the Golden Guard's support and.lordship over.Toran and Pyrru. Yet Retka failed and killed by Gardon.whom, ironically, became the King of the united Toran.and Pyrru kingdoms and increased in power. I think Van Durce did all of this to.help.Gardon grow in power. Every obstacle he laid to.Gardon helped him become more powerful.than.before. And as we see what Van Durce says about Gardon.at the end of chapter nine, he probably suspects the.emperor corrupt and needs Gardon's help without giving him his support directly.
Van Durce wants Gardom on his side but he is playing his cards carefully.

 

[LISBOAH]

I.have this theory
Van Durce told Gardon that he lost the emperor's trust and stripped of all.his influence and power.
But suddenly, Retka rebels on orders from.Van Durce who promised Retka the Golden Guard's support and.lordship over.Toran and Pyrru. Yet Retka failed and killed by Gardon.whom, ironically, became the King of the united Toran.and Pyrru kingdoms and increased in power. I think Van Durce did all of this to.help.Gardon grow in power. Every obstacle he laid to.Gardon helped him become more powerful.than.before. And as we see what Van Durce says about Gardon.at the end of chapter nine, he probably suspects the.emperor corrupt and needs Gardon's help without giving him his support directly.
Van Durce wants Gardom on his side but he is playing his cards carefully.

While this seems an interesting theory, then why did van Durce sent an army of the Golden Guard to support Retka when he decided to attack?
And while we were attacking the elves, why didn't the golden guard aided us? Like in the siege against the queen, why only half of the Golden Guard decided to aid us, and only after they seeing that van Durce didn't care for them?

 

[Championfighter25]

@Morris
If we take the ending of chapter 9 into consideration and see how Van Durce shows regret for his actions and even says "this is for the kingdoms" then it is a possibility. Although in my opinion it's a far fetched theory, but who knows i once jokingly said Gardon's future kingdom will be like the Zyainor empire so your theory may happen.

 

[King Tidus]

I don't think van douche was/is trying to help Gardon in any way, Gardon just obliterates any and all obstacles in his way because he's a boss

 

[Morris]

Well if he didn't try to 'stop' Gardon, The.high echelons will suspect his allegiance. The Golden.Guard might not know.his true.motives and.think.that he abandoned them.
Van Durce, so far, hasn't faced Gardon face to face and only sent his underlings to face him.
Perhaps the ones we destroyed Van Durce wanted to get rid of to assert his control.

 

[Razorfang]

Lord Siler writes:

I believe you guys are over analyzing this whole scenario, van durce is following the emperor's orders and nothing more, he merely hasn't confronted Gardon because he thought others such as Retka and the queen would get rid of him

 

[King Tidus]

I don't think Van Durce wants to destroy Gardon as he states so in chapter 9, but will have to do it since its ordered by the emperor