Map Development: The Scourging of Azeroth

[apsycobear]

If ur using it as a choosable race then ya uldum wud be good, I gave them ulduman as well so maybe u cud give them an outpost in EK to represent it( for balance purposes I don't think ud be able to add ulduman but uldum is just fine). Maybe ulduar as a capturable base?

 

[Silverfish423]

Well Ulduar would only be capturable if the Undead Nerubians decide to betray Lich King and then Yogg Saron and his minions became playable as Gray.
But I like Uldaman as an outpost. It could be maybe a barracks along with a few units. But Uldum, as we both said, should be the main base.
Man...I dont think I have ever heard a map of this style have the Titans as a playable race. This is going to be epic. How many heroes should there be? I was thinking that it would include the Pantheon (there are 6, Sargeras used to be one), but that is a lot of heroes. And powerful ones at that. I think balancing would be interesting here

EDIT: I just thought. What if they did not start with a hero? The heroes have to be summoned? Possibly 2 primary ones (Aman'Thul & Eonar) and then one more based upon which Mastery is chosen?

http://www.wowwiki.com/Pantheon

 

[apsycobear]

Well here's wat I'm doing, maybe you'll get inspiration.

The Titan player is the Titan Watchers(Thorim, Freya, ect..). If a hero who's name I have not thot of yet(he's Algalon the Observers replacment in my map) fulfills a still to be determined requirement, Uldum begins sending Code OMEGA. If Uldum is not destroyed before the code is sent, the player obtains 4 heros of the pantheon(the 4 that empowered the aspects), replacing his Titan watcher heros who are "sent to look after other planets" while the pantheon finishes the job.

 

[WillofKhrone]

My idea if you want a titans race.

Delic Insurgents (Custom Name! Woot!)
Men, women, cut throats, children, bandits, and even some forgotten heros stand together now as a force of evil, working together to make a mark upon this world of ruin. The Delic Insurgents are a force with three main leaders, Toru, the Seeing Eye Druid, Maik, the Marked Beleiver, & Ziv Bar, the Goblin Mastermind. Each have different specialties. The Delic Insurgents have three main techtrees they can choose from - Pantheon's Marked - The Emerald Nightmare - True Insurgency. True Insurgency would be more of a stealthy race, with the tradeport capital of Booty Bay. The Emerald Nightmare would be focused within the Emerald Dream in northern Kalimandor, focusing on curropted druids and the green dragonaspect, Ysera. Pantheon's Marked focuses on summoning the titans, however losing there most powerful people. Focused on Uladaur. The Delic Insurgents are generaly somewhat spread out in the beggining, having small outposts near most major cities, but nothing big. You may choose your techtree for free from your mastery chooser, then choose one of two masterys available for each techtree.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oooh, I like that a lot apsycobear! I really like that a lot.

WillofKhrone: Those are interesting, but (other than the last one) how do those relate to the Titans? xD but i do like them. I would like to include Ysera in the game at some point.

 

[WillofKhrone]

Well, my idea behind it is a group of people made to be able to do several different things based around the game set up. If it was just Titans, I'd think it's be quite the one trick pony. With my suggestion, the player gets to mold his race around his play style, choosing through multiple tech-trees and a few mastery(s) available, instead of being completely SCREWED if Uldum is destroyed.

 

[apsycobear]

Well in fairness, most every race is screwed if their capital is killed. Which leads me to ask a question: Will each capital have some sort of "bonus"(special unit only it can train, special tech, passive bonus ect...) cuz other then the bonus to income it seems like just another building.

 

[WillofKhrone]

In your suggestion, Uldum becomes #1 focus priority, simply because it dying makes a person so underpowered.

 

[Silverfish423]

Well it is more than just a simple income bonus. Rather, you are able to create markets. Markets are one of the main income sources. So without a capital, it is difficult to get income, but perhaps I could add something else.

And WillofKhrone, what do you mean by it being a one trick pony?

 

[WillofKhrone]

So. For the titans, I imagine that they start out as a somewhat weaker race and become a somewhat stronger race, as to keep from being overpowered. Once a stronger race, what is there with them to keep intrest? Do they get a new set of masterys? If they don't, are the masterys focused on start or end? If they're focused on the start, I see having my titan's being somewhat monotone, not exiting. If they're focused on the end, than, what happens when you get your summoning area focused? Ragequit? To make this work, I propose you'd need two sets of masterys. Otherwise, they're boring and week one way, or strong and boring the other way. If you took the undead, they have the plague, which completely remakes them, and they can get it no matter what. It's really nice for them. But with the proposed summoning, you need Uldum to be alive. Which means you'd get focused early game, while having a weak early game. If you get focused early game, you'll have no chance at late game, as you have no way to get your big guns out. Then if the mastery's are focused at the end and you get focused early game, you don't get an end game. You get dead.

If I am imagining wrong, I apoligize for sounding like a meaniepantsmcgoose. I'm trying to give advice so this ends up superduperawesomelicious.

 

[Silverfish423]

No no, I see where you are coming from.
Well first off, the summoning would not create uber powerful heroes. So that is not an issue.

But to address beginning game, end game, this is how I am thinking of doing it, based off of you guys

They start off with no heroes. They have pretty strong units, but not overpowered. Similar to the Burning Legion. Yet, once they summon Aman'thul, they can research one of 3 Masteries, granting a new hero which corresponds with several units and such. But Uldum is not required for this. Uldum is just their starting position, just like everyone else. See what I'm saying?
Although, they may start off with 1 regular hero who will be replaced when Aman'thul comes along

 

[WillofKhrone]

Ohkay. I was kind've thinking you were going with Apoyco's, which required Uldum.

Sorry, lol.

 

[Silverfish423]

he wasnt saying that it requireed Uldum. He was just wondering if capitals were going to give any bonus besides income

 

[WillofKhrone]

Uldum begins sending Code OMEGA. If Uldum is not destroyed before the code is sent, the player obtains 4 heros of the pantheon

He did too!

 

[apsycobear]

I also mentiond that's for my map, i simply told him wat I'm doing so he cud get inspiration.

 

[Silverfish423]

@WillofKhrone: He just means the Titans in general. Atleast that is what I thought he meant.

@apsycobear: Yup! and both of your inputs helped a lot. The Titans will be a cool race to play

 

[WillofKhrone]

. . . Apsycobear has pointed out the flaws in my plan! . . .


TO THE WILLVAN! OF CANDY!

 

[Silverfish423]

hahaha xD
you are one crazy but interesting person, WillofKhrone, xD
BTW, Uldum is under construction right now

 

[WillofKhrone]

That makes me feel all nice inside.

 

[Silverfish423]

The descirption of the Titan race and their progress bar has been added!

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Woot! That's great, a race I was waiting for.

 

[Sky Green]

Hey will there be a event when one titan hero meets Sargeras and something (dunno what) cool happens?

 

[Silverfish423]

@Miss_Foxxy: Yup! No other map that I have seen (with a similar theme) has the Titans yet
@Sky_Green: No, I have not thought of something like that yet. Atlhough maybe I will include something with that once i get to the Titans' events

 

[apsycobear]

I'm having it so sargeras leutenant(now replacment) spawns at uldum when this hapns, you could do somthin along those lines?

 

[Silverfish423]

Uhhm, Im confused, haha.
Do you mean that Sargeras would spawn at Uldum?

 

[WillofKhrone]

Silv, on the first post, you seem to have forgotten to add the section on the masteries post for the titans.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh, you are right, I did forget.
I have not gone through the technicalities of each yet, but I will put placeholders

 

[apsycobear]

No no, im saying that im having it so if one of the TITAN heros(not titan watchers) comes into contact(hes in the heros line of sight) with sargeras, then sargeras' leutenant and his replacment after his betrayal wud spawn in uldum.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh oh, do you mean Aggramar? Or whatever his name is?

{EDIT}
Okay.
The only problem I have is that if I do it the way I thought, the Titans could be overpowered (hero wise)
They already get Aman'thul off the bat. He is really powerful. Then Titans can get 1 of 3 other Titans (based upon Mastery). Finally, they could get Aggramar, leading to a potential 3 heroes who are some of the best (the strongest/best include Sargeras, Lich King, Kil'Jaeden, Cthun, Yogg-Saron, Deathwing, etc)

 

[apsycobear]

Hmm i see what you mean, they have to rape since they beast in lore but they cant be too much to affect balance... I suppose aggramar could be one of the mastery choices.

Btw dont limit the titans mastery to just getting a 2nd hero, make it do somthing else as well and getting a 2nd hero can be the "icing on the cake"

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh well of course. The hero that accompanies the Mastery will for sure be the icing on the cake

And okay, I will make Aggramar a Mastery choice then! The Titans will have 4 Masteries to choose from

EDIT: i also updated the night elf masteries!!

 

[apsycobear]

Quick thing, the 4th mastery for night elves says grim batol, shud say dire maul.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh, you are right. Let me fix that.
What do you guys think of the new Night Elf Masteries?

 

[apsycobear]

The ancient protector masteries new hero should be cenarius if it isnt already.

Also as far as masteries go, exactly how will they work. Will they require conditions to be fullfilled or can you just tech them at any time so long as you can afford it.

Also the Knights of the Ebon Hold mastery and event contradict each other, mastery says that after you tech it you get darion and the death knights, event says after you capture archeus you get them.

 

[WillofKhrone]

Uhm, Cenarius is dead.

It should give you Malfurion. . . or Furion . . .

 

[Silverfish423]

Well, to me, it doesn't contradict itself because in WC3, the death of a hero is often interpreted as merely its "defeat". That is seen in WoW as well. So, that is why the Ebon Hold has to be conquered, or "defeated", not necessarily killed.

And I had an ancient be the hero granted by "Ancient Defender's of Kalimdor", although Cenarius is a good idea. And Cenarius could work because he is an Eternal. It is possible for them to come back to life, as seen in the Cataclysm.

And yes, there is a requirement. It costs 500gold, 500 lumber, and you must have your tier 3 main hall to research them. Through much testing, it has been confirmed that this is not an easy task

 

[WillofKhrone]

Person Explaining Game --- "Oh my gawsh, Grom killed Cenarious and then Cenarious came back to life!"
Old Pro From Azeroth Wars --- "So, your saying, out of my eight weeks of playing one chapeter of the orc campaign, nothing at all happened?"
"Yep."
". . . I'm so ragequitting."


That's m-y take upon what'd happen, lol. I HATE the idea of Cenarious coming back, but whatev's.

 

[Silverfish423]

Hahaha. Well, at this point, Cenarius is not in the game. So dont ragequit yet

 

[apsycobear]

Ya I personally didn't like hat blizz brought him back but was merely a suggestion, suppose furion cud work just as well but.... Idea!

NE starts with tyrande, fandral, and maybe one other hero? If he takes the ancient protector mastery fandrals replaced with furion(he exposes xavius?)

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmmm....okay, I see where you both are coming from.
And that is a good idea! I will remove Malfurion as the starting hero and replace him with Fandral

{EDIT}
Hey guys, I may be uploading the map (alpha/beta version) to this thread in the next week or 2!
Reason I am thinking of doing this is so that everyone can test it and have a first-hand experience to critique / add suggestions for it, rather than know of it through what I say about the map.
Hopefully you guys will enjoy the alpha/beta version. Even as an alpha version, my friends and i love the game, haha xD

 

[apsycobear]

I noticed u removed the AI bar, decided it'd be too difficult or wat?

 

[Silverfish423]

@WillofKhrone: Of course dude! I hope everyone will want to test it! The more testers, the merrier!
@Sky_Green: Awesome! Neither can I ^.^
@Apsycobear: Haha, yes I did remove it. I decided it would be too difficult (at the moment) and settled with spawning neutral hostile units via triggers. It works out nicely, so until possibly a later version, I will not use AI

 

[Rui]

Please, contributory posts only, and don't double-post!
~Thread cleaned

 

[Silverfish423]

The map has been uploaded so you guys can test it personally!

These are the colors that are ready to be tested:
Red, Blue, Teal, Orange, Yellow, Purple, Gray, Light Blue, Brown, and Dark Green. Basically everyone except Pink or Green.
If you have any concerns, criticisms, suggestions, etc, please let me know.

EDIT: I am concentrating on the Masteries right now. I am doing this so that the races that are already being tested will be more fun, enjoyable, and more accurately tested. The creation of the Titan, Cthun, & Nozdormu races will be halted for now.

 

[apsycobear]

Naga get no income, and maelstrom has no exit waygate. Lady Naz'jar has the same spells from ladder matches and should be changed. Queen Azshara is missing an ultimate.

I reccomend you take down the dl file until you're 100% sure its ready for beta so that there arnt 100's of buggy versions around b.net as it will drown out the completed version.

 

[Sky Green]

Tested: Ok, the concept is just awesome but the creeps in Outland are a little op. I've tried to kill 3 eleks and half of my army was dead (i was the Legion).
And why was utgarde destroyed when a creep took it away from me?

EDIT:The Dark Iron dwarfes can't build anything it just stops!

When I choose dark green I can't get to the second row

Where is the titan race?

 

[ImperialShadow]

like apsyo say u should check all thing perfect and upload the map lol.cause the paladin the 3rd mastery no function as well as the lst 1.

 

[Silverfish423]

@Apsycobear: I will fix the Naga's income right now. And they do have an exit waygate. It is the large tornado on the north side. And yeah, I have not spent a lot of time on hero spells. I suppose I should work on that right now.
@SkyGreen: Yeah, the creeps are quite powerful in Outland. The reason I did that though is because Burning Legion has great potential in Outland. If the creeps were easy to kill, he would capture the other points very quickly, resulting in a possible OP player. Although I will consider making the creeps less OP. I will look into the Dark Iron Dwarves not being able to build anything. The reason you can not get to the second row is because that row is for Pink, while the 3rd row is for Green. And the reason you cannot get the Titan race is because it is for Green, but the Titan race is not ready yet. And the reason Utgarde was destroyed when a creep destroyed it was because I have not added a income building transfer triggers for neutral hostile. Although I plan on doing that in the near future.
@ImperialShadow: Yeah, not all Masteries are working as they should. Only 1 for Red, 1 for Teal, 2 for Light Blue, 2 for Orcs, and 1 or 2 for Night Elves are working at this point. Masteries/hero spells are my next big focus. After that, I will finish the unfinished races.

Remember everyone, this is still in the alpha stage!! So there will definitely be some problems, as everyone pointed out, which I am glad they did!! Keep testing! I am going to work on hero spells/masteries for my next few uploads.

EDIT: Oh, and Apsycobear, I only host this game with friends and private games. So these non-complete/buggy versions are not clogging up b-net

Also, I ask that if you do test this, that you do not host it publicly. Only test it with me and my friends or by yourself. Thanks!

 

[apsycobear]

No i no its the torando, im saying it doesnt work. If you need help with spells id be willing to lend a hand along wit the terrain. Btw theres quite a few blemishes in terrain, like tons of red spots where mountains or shorelines shud be.

Like places u used the raise cliff tool. The tiles are the type they shud be, but the outer rim is usualy red(im assuming u used dirt cliff or somthing?).

 

[Silverfish423]

Oooh, I see what you mean. I fixed the waygate right now.
and yeah, the reason there are red spots are because of the original terrain i used, which was the outland tileset. So I cannot change the color of the cliffs :/

EDIT: I think I know what the problem with the Dark Iron Dwarves' buildings are. The buildings are built as if they are Orc buildings (which i intended) but the builder is the race "Human", even though its default is a Peon (Orc). I am going to revert it's race to Orc and see if that fixes it.