Map Development: The Scourging of Azeroth

[apsycobear]

Maybe an event for naga where if azshara gets to lvl 10(depends on lvl system of game) naga players get N'zoth?

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmmm, I was trying to think of a way to implement that and that could be a great way to do it!!
And the lvl system goes up to lvl 12, so should we have it that it requires lvl 12 for N'Zoth to be summoned?

 

[WillofKhrone]

I had ideaz. For Xavius. Thay are har.

Xavius, the Defeated Betrayer
If the Night Elves are to defeat Xavius, then they will gain the hero-unit called "Xavius, the Defeaten Betrayer". He deals 70% more damage than Tyrande every attack, and has four abilities. "Plant Seed, Summon Satyr, Aura of the Betrayer, and Last Chance". Last Chance acts as an Ankh, reviving him. However, Last Chance revives him in a firey blast, dealing damage in an AoE around him. Aura of the Betrayer causes him to decrease 10% of enemy's stats, and 5% of allies stats. Summon Satyr summons a weak satyr which has 5% of all of Xavius' health, armor, damage, and mana, with the ability to summon a clone of itself. Plant Seed corrupts the target, causing them to become a enslaved version of themselves, which explodes on death, summoning another version of itself it kills the target.
Xavius would be able to be found in Fellwood in a Satyr camp.
The Enemy of my Enemy... is my Friend
If the Night Elves take a different mastery than thar corruption, Illadin is able to enter Ashenvale. If he reaches Xavius, he will gain "Xavius, the Satyr Lord" and twelve Satyr Cultists, giving him a new techtree. Xavius, the Satyr Lord has the same spells as the one listed earlier, however, Aura of the Betrayer doesn't hurt allied units.

 

[Silverfish423]

I'm confused on the first one. Are you implying that Xavius would serve the Night Elves?
And the 2nd one would not work because Illidan is in Outland and is computer controlled. He is one of extermination objectives for the Burning Legion

 

[WillofKhrone]

I'm implying Xavius would be like a chained up, defeated warrior set to fight until he died.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh...hmmm
That is interesting....
Maybe instead of getting Xavius as a hero, Maeiv is brought up since she is the "Warden"? It could be used to show that she is guarding him?

 

[apsycobear]

Xavius is currently a "tree", his satyr form exists within the emerald dream.

Maiev on the other hand is imprisoned near the black temple by illidan so that's also an issue.

The suggested spells also sound very overpowerd(not to mention his suggested stats)

 

[WillofKhrone]

Xavius would be a hero-unit in my theory. That means he has NO hero stats. He is not a hero. He dies after he is killed. He CANNOT be revived at an altar, which is why he'd need to be so strong to be worth it.

 

[Silverfish423]

Well, no hero can be revived at an altar at this point. And Xavius is considered an 'Eternal'. He definitely would deserve the status of 'Hero'. But I think we should just leave Xavius' role as part of one of the Night Elven masteries

{EDIT}
Hey WillofKhrone, I am going to be updating the Masteries and Events section. Could you look it over and add any suggestions or changes you would like to see?
This goes for everyone else as well!

 

[WillofKhrone]

EDIT -- I'd like to see what your going to do with my idea's for Arthas' death that I had.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh, I didn't include that? One second, haha

EDIT: Wait, one second. If the Lich King dies, are we assuming that the Scourge (Light Blue) loses? Because that will facilitate hero-targeting, which I wish to minimize

 

[apsycobear]

If lich king dies just give scourge player a building named bolvar that provides a worldwide debuff to all his units( to represent the "jailor of the damned" aspect).

It cud decrease atk by 10%, atk speed by 20%, move speed by 10%, health by 20%, and armor by 30%.

Have it so if kel'thuzad(loyal to arthas himself not just lich king) reachs lvl 12 bolvar becomes targetble by the scourge player(he can kill the building himself).

 

[Silverfish423]

Ooh, I like that a lot. I will implement that

Although I still want to do something with Silver Hand and Lich King death. Maybe if Silver Hand kills Lich King, they get a hero that is related somehow to the souls that were trapped inside Frostmourne? That way we could include some aspect of WillofKhrone's idea of rewarding killing the Lich King

 

[apsycobear]

Just a quick recomendation, you should change the players name from the Silver Hand to the Argent Dawn.

If you were to do this you could make an event so if the player takes the mastery where he obtains the Archeus(im asuming he gets darion as well?) then he becomes the Argent Crusade, after which if he kills arthas you could give him a base outside of icecrown citadel.

It would sort of work like this, if kel'thuzad reachs 12 the first thing the scourge player would logicly do is kill bolvar and this is would be the last thing the argent crusade wants to happen so the base could act as a "incase somthing hapns were here" sorta thing. Not to mention im asuming this would provide income since it is a base.

 

[Silverfish423]

Well, first off, you got the first part confused. This is the progression I used which explains why they start off as Silver Hand:
1) Start off as Silver Hand (starting hero is Lord Reveles)
2) If they defeat Darion/Archeus, becomes Argent Dawn (Tirion joins them)
3) If they research "Light's Vengeance" Mastery, becomes Argent Crusade (Darion/Archeus death knights join them)

See what I mean?

And well with the defeat of Lich King, it doesnt mean that the player is being attacked at his base (in the game, not literal warcraft lore-wise). Due to this, it wouldnt be fair to Light Blue that a base is put outside his base even if he still controls Northrend. And yeah, once Kel'thuzad reaches level 12, that would be the most logical thing he would do, would be to destroy Bolvar. But that means he has to get his hero to level 12, which isn't like getting to level 5.
And if that is the last thing Red (Silver Hand/Argent Dawn/Argent Crusade) wants, then he should attack Scourge at their homebase in Northrend

 

[Marshmalo]

It all sounds realy good so far but where in the warcraft time line does the game actualy start? I thought the game starts just at the end of the events in the Frozen Throne but the silverhand was destroyed during TFT timeline and I'm sure Tirion was already a member of the silverhand, he was a founding member afterall.

 

[Silverfish423]

Yes, you're right, it is placed after the events of TFT. But Silver Hand was still active, just diminished greatly. And Tirion was an outcast. But during the events of WoW, Tirion came back and reforged the Silver Hand into the Argent Dawn.

 

[apsycobear]

I see what ur saying now.

 

[Sky Green]

Well will the map be downloadable on summer or should we wait longer

 

[Silverfish423]

@apsycobear: Coolio But I still want to add some sort of reward for Silver Hand, as WillofKhrone was suggesting. I was thinking either adding a hero that is related to the tortured souls that were released from Frostmourne when Lich King is defeated or give a passive ability to all Silver Hand units that grants increased health regeneration, or something like that. What do you all think?

@Sky_Green: I am hoping that there will be something downloadable in summer. It probably won't be completed, but I am hoping that the Beta version will be ready for download in summer!

 

[apsycobear]

reborn paladin uther maybe? give tirion an item called uther's ashes(he was burried west of scholomance but for the sake of gameplay..) and if tirion is in control of the ashes when arthas dies then uther is ressurected(in a The Light kinda way not Re-animation kinda way).

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmmm, I like that! I will implement that as well

Thanks WillofKhrone and apsycobear and everyone else! Some really cool stuff related to Lich King's death have been added due to your ideas!

Keep em comin everyone! I will post some of my ideas for brainstorming / criticism tomorrow. For now, its time for Zzzzzz

 

[ImperialShadow]

i will watch this map.It look very nice +im risk fan.How about the felElves?do u have the skin?

 

[Silverfish423]

Thanks for your interest!
And yes, Felblood Elves will be included. However, a skin is not needed because I will simply change the tint of high elf / blood elf units

 

[apsycobear]

Ya tinting is the prefrable alternative to skins/models since it takes up less space(it doesn't take any space I simply say less cuz 0<insert number). Although there's some things u cant just tint like say sargeras.

 

[Dragonson]

Well, in this case he cant use a skin anyways as he needs both the high elf and fel elf units.
If he uses a skin it also changes the skin of the high elves.

If it werent for that, i'd totally say you should use a skin.

 

[Sky Green]

uhm...if he makes a new model impot the skin on that unnit not the original would that work?

Edit:Just so you know I have already asked about felblood elves ofc now the answer is diffirent but I hoe atleast that felblood elves are not just a minor role in ur map

 

[Silverfish423]

@apsycobear: yeah, exactly. I tend to use a new model when a unit cannot be appropriately represented by another unit model that is already in wc3, of which Sargeras would be included. Although, purely epic models (like the Lich King model) i obviously use xD

@Dragonson: actually, there is a method that can be used to apply one skin to two different models without causing problems. However, the filesize of the map has gotten quite big, so I am not using new custom models/skins as of now. I actually need to purge the custom models/skins for unneeded ones

@Sky_Green: yup, the decision was changed. When you had first asked me, I didn't think Felblood Elves or Blood Elves were going to be implemented but after thinking about it, I agreed with you and I felt they should be added. So I have manipulated a few things so they could be added

 

[Nightblade]

Im sure this will stand out from other similar maps..I like the idea of masteries.Are stormwind,Ironforg and the gurbrashi controllable by 2 players at once?

It sounds cool,just watch out for filesize.

You had been warned.And Yorg Stormheart?Sounds like a dwarven disease to me.

 

[Silverfish423]

Thank you very much! I hope it will stand out as well. And no, stormwind, ironforge, gurubashi, etc, will not be controlled by 2 players. What happens is that 3 players will be given the choice of choosing 1 of roughly 8 or 9 separate races (in addition to the other 9 races chosen by the other colors). The leftover 5-6 races will be controlled for a short duration by triggers.
Haha. Yeah, I am trying to keep the filesize at a low level. I think that is extremely important
And this is Yorg Stormheart http://www.wowwiki.com/Yorg_Stormheart

 

[apsycobear]

So 9/12 players will start as a predetermined race and the other 3 will get to chose from 9 or so races?

Seems interesting but u shud specify things a lil more, maybe make it so out of those 3 players, each one can chose from only 3 races? itd make balancing a lot easier and no one will be all OMG YOU STOLE MY RACE /leave.

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmm...yeah. That is true. Well I will look into that and see how I can have it balanced perfectly. Because this is how the races are broken up:

Kalimdor (2):
C'thun/Silithid & Nozdormu/Infinite Dragonflight

Eastern Kingdoms (5):
Deathwing/Twilight Dragonflight, Ironforge, Stormwind, Ragnaros/Dark Iron Dwarves, & Gurubashi Empire

High Elf Deviants:
Felblood Elves (Outland) & Blood Elves (Anywhere)

So basically a lot of these races are located in the Eastern Kingdoms, while few are located in Kalimdor or Outland or Northrend. So I need to figure out how to balance the choice process if I do it that way

 

[ImperialShadow]

i cant wait to play.....

 

[WillofKhrone]

If you were going to do something like

Kalimdor (2):
C'thun/Silithid & Nozdormu/Infinite Dragonflight
Eastern Kingdoms (5):
Deathwing/Twilight Dragonflight, Ironforge, Stormwind, Ragnaros/Dark Iron Dwarves, & Gurubashi Empire
High Elf Deviants:
Felblood Elves (Outland) & Blood Elves (Anywhere)

I, for one, would find it much better if instead of it being High Elf Deviants, you did something like. . .

Deviants of Power;
Fellblood Elves (Outland), Blood Elves (Anywhere), Ironforge (Eastern Kingdoms), Ragnaros/Dark Iron Dwarves (Eastern Kingdoms)
Kalimandor;
Cthun/Silthid (Kalimandor), Nozdormu/Infinite Dragonflight (Kalimandor),
Eastern Kingdoms;
Stormwind, Gurubashi Empire, & Deathwing (Twilight Dragonflight).

For balancing purposes, if you went with the way I suggested it, I'd reccomend adding Ysera and putting it as a choice for Kalimandor, for otherwise it's 4 - 2 - 3.

 

[apsycobear]

w8 can u quickly list the races that are determined from start and the races that are chosen by the 3 players? im pretty sure i can help you with what you with the race/continent thing afterwards.

Btw blood elves should be silvermoon not anywhere, after the events of 3rd war some blood elves went with kael others stayed behind, fought back scourge, and rebuilt their city.

 

[Silverfish423]

I will create a picture that shows where each race would start and which ones are chosen by the 3 players. that way demographics can be looked at as well

EDIT: Here is the picture:

Starting Points of Races

I am thinking of removing Felblood Elves as a choice and just have them as a Mastery or Event for Blood Elves. Then, I would break down the selection choice as such:

Player 1: C'thun/Silithid, Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons & Blood Elves
Player 2: Stormwind, Gurubashi, Dark Iron
Player 3: Ironforge & Deathwing

 

[apsycobear]

k heres how i see it should be done for sake of balance.

Player 1: C'thun/Silithid, Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons.
Player 2: Stormwind, Ironforge, Gurubashi.
Player 3: Deathwing, Dark Iron.

Although i rlly want the blood elves in this game i dont see wich race they could replace or wich players choice they cud be. As you see i chose this set-up because of starting position because itll make balancing the fights much more easier. The only choice for adding blood elves i see is give it to one of the players(balancing becomes much more difficult) or merge the nerubian and scourge players and impliment blood elves as a race. If you were to merge the 2 players however you would need to rework quite a few things tho, so the choices wud be working more on balance or reworking 2 races into 1.

This is your map however so its all up to you, these are mearly my suggestions/thoughts.

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmm...I see what you mean. But I have a problem with the way you grouped the choices together.
I have no problem with Player 1. I agree with that. But I think that maybe it should be done like this (for player 2/3)
Player 2: Deathwing, Ironforge
Player 3: Stormwind, Dark Iron, Gurubashi

The reason I want it like this is because of several events and Masteries that would co-incide with eachother and the starting points of the races. Your way, Deathwing & Ironforge could be chosen. They are very close to eachother and it would be unfair for them to battle eachother when most everyone is not immediately next to an enemy. But I think my way, the regions would be evenly divided and 2 enemy players would not be unfairly close to eachother.

Also remember, the Naga are great because they can go anywhere they want. They have the Maelstrom, but their base of atack can be placed anywhere, you know what I mean? So if there is a space of no players, Naga will likely take it up.

And yeah, the Blood Elves are difficult to deal with at the moment. I want to implement them, but as of now, they are on the back burner

 

[apsycobear]

I see what ur doing, I placed players in that order so each person had a defined enemy(btw if one player goes dark iron and other goes deathwing they basicly share a base so that's an issue).

 

[Silverfish423]

Well, they will still have enemies the way I placed it. But you won't have someone such as Ironforge + Deathwing fighting from the first second so they can move their troops (the regions are very close together). Because most other races are able to capture a few regions before they have any real threat of rebuke.
But alliances can still be made by way also. Mine is basically the same as yours but I switched Deathwing and Ironforge around.

What do you mean they would share a base? Deathwing resides in Grim Batol and Dark Iron is in Blackrock Mountain. Look at that map picture I posted incase you forgot where those are.

Im glad we are all having these discussions. It is making sure we hit the fine points of the map to make it awesome

 

[apsycobear]

Arite I see, that setup wud also make deathwing events musch more difficult so that's a good thing(i think). Btw why's he in grim batol? I no ur changing lore around but there was no point in time he could have escaped there so that's an issue, if you need any help thinking up lore to explain "discrepancies" between ur lore and official lore I'll be more then happy to help.

 

[Silverfish423]

Reason I chose Grim Batol was because it had been suggested before in Blizzard books. Also, Grim Batol is cavernous. Even in WoW, there are caverns and dungeons and such completely unexplored. So it could be possible that there is a underground passage or something that Deathwing was able to go to. In addition, Grim Batol is in the Twilight Highlands, which are the base of operations for the Twilight's Hammer.

But sure, what ideas do you have to help patch it up a bit?

And yeah, it is a good thing that the Deathwing events would be more difficult, haha

 

[apsycobear]

The reason I say this is because the last we say deathwing b4 the cataclysm is fleeing from grim batol so I find it unlikely he's here. However if your using cata terrain u can use the deepholme lore blizz used and say after entering the world he used grim batol as a bas of operations.

Keep in mind deathwing breaking from deepholme can't be used as lore if u don't use cata terrain(deathwing breaking boundry between elemental plane and Azeroth causes changes in the world).

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh, I see what you are saying
Yeah, well basically this is the way I am looking at the lore:
It takes place after TFT. So anything before TFT is canon. Anything after it is up for discussion. Obviously I take a lot of stuff from after TFT because it is really cool, but I also like taking speculations and different lore ideas that could have happened and make them possible in the game. That is basically my explanation for why Deathwing is at Grim Batol. During TFT, it was unsure where Deathwing was. Due to this, it could have been possible that Deathwing was at Grim Batol, using it as his base of operations.

 

[apsycobear]

Ya but keep in mind there has to be an in between for him fleeing from the other aspects and him hiding in grim batol(this is where ur own lore or cata lore wud come in), cuz the last time he was mentiond he was fleeing from grim batol and the other aspects.

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmm...true. What would be your suggestion for my own lore to fill in the space?

 

[apsycobear]

Hmm, perhaps have it so he ran off to blackrock where he hid under the protection of Nefarian and the other black dragons, then during the commotion of the 3rd war(the aspects were no doubt paying close attention to wat hapnd, or atleast Alexastra wuda been) he quickly ran off towards grim batol to set up his Base of Operations.

If anyone asks why bother moving locations anyways, the reason is for a closer proximity to the twilight cult as well as a more "free" enviroment away from the dark irons and ragnoras.

 

[Silverfish423]

I like that. K k, I will use that

Btw, I am working on Stormwind at the moment!

{EDIT}
I just thought of something interesting. What if I added the Titans as a playeable race?? I feel as if that would be completely epic!!

 

[apsycobear]

I'm doing that wit my map so I'm for it, altho I don't see who ud replace them wit.

 

[Silverfish423]

Well, I wasn't thinking of having them replace them. I was thinking of adding them to Player 1's options (Cthun/Silithid & Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons) because I was thinking of having their starting place in Uldum, which is in southern Kalimdor