Is Life Predetermined?

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Usually a similar discussion arises with religious debates. (If God knows everything than isn't everything set in stone and you have no choice?)

*EVERYTHING I SAY IS JUST AN EXAMPLE*

Because I am ugly, I will never get a GF.
Because I am handsome, I will never have time for hobbies.
Because a volcano erupted a million years ago, half of Australia is uninhabitable.

My family was slaughtered by owls. I hate owls.
My great great grandparents were *Christians*. I am a *Christian*.
My great grandparents founded the Church of Satan. I am a *Satanist*.

300 years ago, my country was founded as a democracy. I love democracy.
1,000 years ago, my country was founded as a hypocrisy. I love hypocrisy.

A gust of wind that was created by a pressure change made me get cold so I went inside. A bomb was outside and would have killed me.

I was perfectly comfortable outside and died in a massive explosion because life hates me!

Lets assume people having a choice introduces randomness. Do I want chocolate or vanilla? 50/50

Does anything random actually happen? Do we have a choice? We think we have a choice to kill _____ or not to kill _____. But what if all our past experiences have created only one choice in our mind, KILL! 2 + 2 = 4. Beaten + raped = hatred. Loved + educated = successful. As you type up a response, is every single letter/word/sentence you choose actually predetermined based on what you have read/seen in your life. Because you have seen the word *Predetermined* and long words make you seem intelligent and everybody wants to seem intelligent, it seems that you have only one choice. Will you write the word "predetermined" in a predetermined manner?

Then there is the most popular theory for those TL;DR types. "Shit happens"

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

roll a dice. thats pretty random...

 

[Drenith]

Don't have a huge opinion on the predetermined part, but i will give you some food for thought on the religious aspect... i'm not really religious but i do believe in something more than we live then die then rot in the ground lol. Anyways i find it immensely interesting that a number of animals have developed systems that cause them to die when in in imminent danger, an example is that in some cases rabbits being chased by a fox have been known to give themselves heart attacks... this almost seems like a way of making dying less painful for the creature, furthermore, how would a feature like this evolve? It has nothing to do with aiding in the survival of the species, and in some ways takes away from it. Say a hunter shoots the fox seconds before the rabbit dies, the rabbit that doesn't induce a heart attack would still be alive and able to reproduce, so it would seem logical that a trait that causes premature death would never survive the 'survival of the fittest' rule of evolution. This oddity is one that in my opinion supports some form of intelligent design, whether by a God, by some aliens that visited earth millions of years ago, or any other theory regardless of how crazy it may seem.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Don't have a huge opinion on the predetermined part, but i will give you some food for thought on the religious aspect... i'm not really religious but i do believe in something more than we live then die then rot in the ground lol. Anyways i find it immensely interesting that a number of animals have developed systems that cause them to die when in in imminent danger, an example is that in some cases rabbits being chased by a fox have been known to give themselves heart attacks... this almost seems like a way of making dying less painful for the creature, furthermore, how would a feature like this evolve? It has nothing to do with aiding in the survival of the species, and in some ways takes away from it. Say a hunter shoots the fox seconds before the rabbit dies, the rabbit that doesn't induce a heart attack would still be alive and able to reproduce, so it would seem logical that a trait that causes premature death would never survive the 'survival of the fittest' rule of evolution. This oddity is one that in my opinion supports some form of intelligent design, whether by a God, by some aliens that visited earth millions of years ago, or any other theory regardless of how crazy it may seem.

Personally I just can't see how anything could have evolved. How would you evolve an eye? Light hits your skin and you just happen to have a way to detect that and then your body tries to manipulate the light? Don't tell me the eyeball came about randomly as some sort of genetic mutation that wasn't even intended to be able to see but could. Basically life had to start at some point with sensory and the ability to evolve. There's no way we came from primordial goo!

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

... There's no way we came from primordial goo!

because believing we came from a lump of earth makes much more sense...

about the sensory thing, its not like an eye was developed in an instant. those animals with light sensitive cells, determining light and dark, were able to survive better than those relying on more primitive senses like touch. those organisms through time evolve(a very slow form of mutating) and through slight mix and match of gazillion^gazillion generations of genes, eye was developed. its like giving an idiot a rubiks cube. if you leave him there randomly jumbling the thing, sooner or later, he will solve it. solving the thing here equates to creation of an eye

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Life is not predetermined. It's a simple action/reaction scenario, there's no deep philosophy into it unless you're a pious person.

 

[Linaze]

roll a dice. thats pretty random...

Not at all, actually.
It depends on how hard you roll it, what angle you roll it, the table you're rolling it at etc.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

all faces are affected the same way by any variable, uneven rolling floor, heavy gravity, wind and etc. so they dont affect the probability of the dice

 

[Steel_Stallion]

all faces are affected the same way by any variable, uneven rolling floor, heavy gravity, wind and etc. so they dont affect the probability of the dice

Actually, that's exactly the reason it effects the probability of the dice. If you build a machine that can throw at the exact same angle, with the same exact force in newtons every time, you can get the exact same result every time.

If I put the die into the machine with 6 facing up, throw it, and put it back with 6 facing up, I'll get the same result. (Taking into consideration the lack of other factors, wind, outside forces, etc.)

 

[D4RK_G4ND4LF]

yesterday I read something about the evolution of eyes

first there was the worm with cells who were able to sense light
-> random mutation of one cell type -> no problem
-> very useful because of birds (birds step between sunlight and worm so worm can notice bird

this goes on with the cells sinking down into the worm resulting in better "3D-seeing-capabilitys"

after that there is some stuff growing over it to prevent it from being damaged (transparent ofc)

then there were grown some muscless to manipulate the shape of the transparent thingy which results in better focus

this is proven by different kinds of animals which all have eyes from diffeent stages of that evolution

(I'm native english speaker so don't whine about it - constructive critizism is ok ofc)

I "belive" in predeterminism but if everything is predetermined I just have to follow it so I am doing the same stuff as before

however our knowledge about very small particles is very bad and depending on researches I might change my mind

e.g. atoms works like balls bouncing up and down with some kind of attraction twords each other -> pretty easy to belive

but electrones just fly around threw the air around some protones and neutrones which does not make lots of sense in our makro world

the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle" is saying that we can't determin the exact position and the speed of something very small at the same time which might result in a random value or just something we did not understand yet - who knows
I'll become a great scientist and work it out!!! ... or not - who knows

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

because believing we came from a lump of earth makes much more sense...

about the sensory thing, its not like an eye was developed in an instant. those animals with light sensitive cells, determining light and dark, were able to survive better than those relying on more primitive senses like touch. those organisms through time evolve(a very slow form of mutating) and through slight mix and match of gazillion^gazillion generations of genes, eye was developed. its like giving an idiot a rubiks cube. if you leave him there randomly jumbling the thing, sooner or later, he will solve it. solving the thing here equates to creation of an eye

Who's playing with the rubiks cube? How did anything even evolve the ability to feel things! If you can't feel anything, how do you know there is anything to feel? If you felt absolutely nothing, you could stumble around, run into walls, and not even know it. Somebody could stab you and you could care less. Everything is far too complex to just have started as primordial goo. BTW I never said what my beliefs are. I just don't believe we came from primordial goo. I honestly have no clue how God created the Earth and it doesn't really matter. I don't think they should be teaching some idiotic theories in school is all.

 

[Dark Master]

Is Life Predetermined?

I don't think so...

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

This thought came to me, say, a few months ago. I asked myself, "If someone made a computer that was completely aware of every particle in the universe, could it, using the laws of physics, deduce the past and the future?"

I did some research, and came up with this concept made by some French guy known as Laplace's Demon, which proposed the same thing. More importantly, however, I came across why it could not happen, which, as stated before, is the Uncertainty Principle.

What was I trying to get at again...? Oh, yeah, it was also how I realized that chance did, in fact, exist, and life could not be predetermined as you stated before.

Certain conditions in life might make some characteristics of yourself more likely, but it's nothing inevitable. There's no single thing that will certainly lead to something else.

Who's playing with the rubiks cube? How did anything even evolve the ability to feel things! If you can't feel anything, how do you know there is anything to feel? If you felt absolutely nothing, you could stumble around, run into walls, and not even know it. Somebody could stab you and you could care less. Everything is far too complex to just have started as primordial goo.

Yeah, the human body is far too complex to start as a single cell.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Who's playing with the rubiks cube? How did anything even evolve the ability to feel things! If you can't feel anything, how do you know there is anything to feel? If you felt absolutely nothing, you could stumble around, run into walls, and not even know it. Somebody could stab you and you could care less. Everything is far too complex to just have started as primordial goo. BTW I never said what my beliefs are. I just don't believe we came from primordial goo. I honestly have no clue how God created the Earth and it doesn't really matter. I don't think they should be teaching some idiotic theories in school is all.

God is also a theory >.<

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Evolutionists are just as hypocritical as they claim Creationists to be, imo. I find creation as legitimate as evolution.

 

[Callahan]

Evolutionists are just as hypocritical as they claim Creationists to be, imo. I find creation as legitimate as evolution.

Creationism is mythologic belief that has no reliable example or case.
While evolutionism is more reliable and many case has been observed.
Such has some medusa species that were prisoned in some lagoon had no predators and rapidly lost their urticant ability.
And virus and unicellular being evolve very fast due to the simplicity or their structure and their evolution can be observed in laboratory.

And life is not predetermined since only the present actualy exist.Futur and past are just conceptual.This is not like everything was recorded on a bobbin and you press 'play'.

And if it was predetermined that would means it has a start and an end.
Since universe is infinite and expanding.Time is infinite and expanding.
How can you predetermine something infinite?
If iy would be predetermined that would means the great history of the universe is recorded somewhere.Event that didn't already happened and event that has already happened are recorded somewhere and must be already existing.
I don't think such a thing exist it's useless and stupid.

 

[Element of Water]

Time is just another dimension. The three dimensions of width, bredth and height all exist within time infinitely. Who knows, maybe the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is right and there are also dimensions such as the first fundamental of probability and lots of different time dimensions are contained within it, infinite parallel realities. Everything is predetermined, within the dimension of time. Just as at each moment in time each of the three "material" dimensions exist, within the 5th dimension, probability, all of time must also already exist, from start to finish (if there are even such "stages" of time). The thing is, it is just incredibly difficult, maybe even impossible, to tell what this "set time" is. Who knows, maybe one day a machine will exist that can tell absolutely where every single particle on planet Earth currently is, and thus exactly what will happen in the future, and exactly what happened in the past. The only problem is, there is the extraterrestrial factor to worry about. If a meteor hit the planet, the whole of time could take a new twist. And that's why it most probably is impossible. The machine would have to tell exactly where every single particle in the whole of reality, which may even be infinite, is, at once. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty impossible.

Phew, that was long and philosophical. I hope you understand it all!

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Evolutionists are just as hypocritical as they claim Creationists to be, imo. I find creation as legitimate as evolution.

I don't argue against creationism, because you can't really disprove it. Young Earth Creationism, or Intelligent Design, on the other hand, is about as scientific as my balls.


But there's no point arguing that, because the Supreme Court already declared it a religion, all the lobbyists have calmed down, and in decades past, this will all just be another stupid fad.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Blah blah blah.

Spare me, I've heard it all before. And my statement stands.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Scientists at least admit mistakes, and saying someone religious is wrong is blaphemy.

Geez, im gone already >.< bye...

 

[HappyCockroach]

Possibly one of the most stupid threads to come out of Off-Topic.

You don't need to point it out. Try being nice and let them discuss about stupidities. x(


Anyhow, nothing is random. Nothing depends on you. If you think you're gonna change it now, your thought was already predetermined, too.

Your next reply is predetermined. So what's the point of posting it?

 

[Element of Water]

Your next reply is predetermined. So what's the point of posting it?

It's predetermined; I have to make this reply

 

[The_wand_mirror]

If everything is predetermined how can you think of it being predetermined... is that predetermined too?

and this? fuddedeedoo was that predetermined too or wtf was i then supposed to do?

CARROT - FACE - KEYBOARD BUTTON CHOCOLATE SPEAKER MADE OF asdasdasdasdas

and that? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this? and this?

i think not.

 

[Element of Water]

I think so. It's all predetermined. Every decision you make is influenced by everything else that's happened beforehand. You think the way you think because of what you've seen and heard in the past. You wrote that, because you wanted to prove us wrong. That's what influenced you to write it. And you wanted to prove us wrong because we put forward ideas you don't agree with. Basically, you just gave me more ground for argument.

 

[Callahan]

I think so. It's all predetermined. Every decision you make is influenced by everything else that's happened beforehand. You think the way you think because of what you've seen and heard in the past. You wrote that, because you wanted to prove us wrong. That's what influenced you to write it. And you wanted to prove us wrong because we put forward ideas you don't agree with. Basically, you just gave me more ground for argument.

Lol idiot you're saying exactly the opposite of predetermined.
If your way of thinking is determined by his experience and his education and the decision he made then it's not predetermined.
You're giving us more ground for argument.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Even if life was, in fact, predetermined (which it probably isn't), it wouldn't really matter. It's more or less like a TV show. You're not going to figure out what happens next, and your actions at least seem like they're completely up to your free will, so what difference does it make?

 

[Callahan]

Even if life was, in fact, predetermined (which it probably isn't), it wouldn't really matter. It's more or less like a TV show. You're not going to figure out what happens next, and your actions at least seem like they're completely up to your free will, so what difference does it make?

Not any.It's just for the sake of it.
It's like if god exist or not.
A almighty god that never show himself and never act is the same as a god that doesn't exist

 

[HappyCockroach]

Yeah, what's the difference...
Predetermined or not, you don't know what's gonna happen.

 

[Elenai]

Evolutionists are just as hypocritical as they claim Creationists to be, imo. I find creation as legitimate as evolution.

Remember, Evolution, and Creation is not mutually exclusive.

An Evolutionist, and an Ex-nihlo creationist are the same sort of thing...human...and prone to human thoughts.

Creationism is as legitimate as Evolution, just as Evolution is as legitimate as Creationism.

In the end it all falls down to 'why' less so than 'how', as the prime reason why the two 'sides' fight.

Creationism is mythologic belief that has no reliable example or case.

Where is the biological soup that was in the beginning of time? Even secular science has its fair share of grey area, hypothesis, and 'not so reliable' examples, or cases.

While evolutionism is more reliable and many case has been observed.

Microevolution, and adaption have been observed, but Macroevolution has never, ever, ever, ever been seen by the human eye, and the fossil records only provide a broken picture of a glimpse of this rather magnificent process.

Please be more accurate when you state 'observed'. Since it is humanly impossible for anyone alive today to have observed evolution.

Besides...Evolution is a process, a tool...and as I have discovered...a rather awesome tool...God can easily use such a thing....and why not? If it is so incredible.

Such has some medusa species that were prisoned in some lagoon had no predators and rapidly lost their urticant ability.

Awesome, adaptation within a species works.

And virus and unicellular being evolve very fast due to the simplicity or their structure and their evolution can be observed in laboratory.

Awesome! Microbiologists observing microevolution, quite a step towards microscopic science.

May I see the evolution of the Mammoth in a lab?

No...I can't...I can only see the footprints of the mammoth's walk through evolution...alas, I didn't see the mammothoid grow into full mammothhood...and then into the elephant.

And life is not predetermined since only the present actualy exist.Futur and past are just conceptual.This is not like everything was recorded on a bobbin and you press 'play'.

I have predetermined in the present, that in approximately 30 seconds I will post the following word:

"Pickle"

However, I will also post this:

aso;ihfgaopsighfsaodfi

Behold: Predetermined, and also...randomness, oddly enough, a predetermined randomness...Since I predetermined that I would post the random letters, but did not determine the order, or letters used.

And if it was predetermined that would means it has a start and an end.
Since universe is infinite and expanding.Time is infinite and expanding.
How can you predetermine something infinite?

The universe does have a start....or else it wouldn't be expanding. Infinite =/= expanding....by strict definition...it can't...

If iy would be predetermined that would means the great history of the universe is recorded somewhere.

Possible. Or else, you could think of it like the mirror of Galadriel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtfZVHyq6UQ

A picture is worth a thousand words, a video is worth a thousand pictures, and this video has pictures, and words...

Event that didn't already happened and event that has already happened are recorded somewhere and must be already existing.
I don't think such a thing exist it's useless and stupid.

Remember, the universe doesn't bend to what you think. The Appendix seems rather useless and stupid...yet....behold its existence, despite what you or I may think of it.

Spare me, I've heard it all before. And my statement stands.

Now now, lets be reasonable. "Blah Blah Blah" isn't the most intelligent quote. It shows cowardice. Your statement stands, you should stand also on your beliefs.

Moron.

You don't seem to help your point by degrading your opponent.

By replacing my quote with blablabla you disrespect me.

He shouldn't do that, but in retrospect...you shouldn't prove his point, by not showing common decency. Thus...deserving his 'disrespect' by not providing it when presented with the opportunity.

Added to ignore list.Did you forseee that cunt?

This is not appropriate. Seriously...cunt? Good grief...Aren't you supposed to be intelligent, and civilized? Ignorant is not the one who believes something you do not...Ignorant is the one who resorts to what you are doing.

No wonder he doesn't respect you...apparently he was correct in his foresight, if you feel the need to stoop to this sort of playground shenanegan.

It also shows cowardice on your part, to not face your opponent.

Now I will gladly accept negrep for flaming this mob.

Or better yet...You should be forced to apologize.

And believing in creationism is such ingorance.

You act as if you know everything. You do not.

You are born because your father fucked your mother and it's the case for every human being.

Yes, and it seems that you still have some growing up to do, speaking of being born.

There's no superior entity creating you.

Prove it. You've brought the claim (God does not exist) to the courtroom, burden of proof is now yours to bear.

A almighty god that never show himself and never act is the same as a god that doesn't exist

I am so lucky to worship an almighty god...who shows himself daily, and acts daily, and noticably, in my life.

___________

On the topic of pre-determined, and 'dice'...

The roll of a dice isn't exactly random, as factors besides 'fate' come into play.

Wind resistance, throw force, gravity, etc, etc...

The number that comes up, is 'determined' by these factors.

If that makes any sense..it does to me anyway.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Did we just get God involved?

Grats. This thread has gotten even more stupid.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

While I do believe in God, I never intended for this to be a religious debate. I did mention that I believe in God, and that is all. I never said creationism is true, I said primordial goo theory (not evolution) is wrong.

WILLTHEALMIGHTY, your comments are definitely worse than this thread. GTFO if you have nothing of value to contribute.

asdf;lkjasd;flkjask;ldfj. These random letters could still have been predetermined. While I may try as hard as possible to make my fingers fly randomly across the keyboard, they were still governed by my brain.

Think about this. A computer cannot truly generate random numbers. At least nobody has made one that can.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

While I do believe in God, I never intended for this to be a religious debate. I did mention that I believe in God, and that is all. I never said creationism is true, I said primordial goo theory (not evolution) is wrong.

WILLTHEALMIGHTY, your comments are definitely worse than this thread. GTFO if you have nothing of value to contribute.

asdf;lkjasd;flkjask;ldfj. These random letters could still have been predetermined. While I may try as hard as possible to make my fingers fly randomly across the keyboard, they were still governed by my brain.

Think about this. A computer cannot truly generate random numbers. At least nobody has made one that can.

And what difference does it make if it is predetermined or not? At the very least, it provides the illusion of free will to mankind's limited comprehension, and so, it doesn't matter.

For example, when you flip a coin, it's not actually a 50/50 chance. You have the strength you put in flipping the coin into the air, the place you strike to coin to set it in motion, the air around you, etc. But there's no way you can possibly determine these kinds of things in your average environment, and so it becomes 50/50.

When you use a random number generator on your computer, it's not actually random. It's been designed to provide numbers in a certain order. But you have no way of determining that order, and any number is as likely as any other, and so you are given the sense that it is, in fact, random. There's no difference.

 

[Element of Water]

Lol idiot you're saying exactly the opposite of predetermined.
If your way of thinking is determined by his experience and his education and the decision he made then it's not predetermined.
You're giving us more ground for argument.

The thing is, I'm not. What I said was predetermined by what he said, which was predetermined by what other people before said, which was all predetermined by the primordial goo which was all predetermined by the big bang and.... yeah. It's all predetermined in the end, but as MySpaceBarBroke said, there's no way of telling what the predetermined future is, so it makes no difference if it is predetermined or not.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

While I do believe in God, I never intended for this to be a religious debate. I did mention that I believe in God, and that is all. I never said creationism is true, I said primordial goo theory (not evolution) is wrong.

WILLTHEALMIGHTY, your comments are definitely worse than this thread. GTFO if you have nothing of value to contribute.

asdf;lkjasd;flkjask;ldfj. These random letters could still have been predetermined. While I may try as hard as possible to make my fingers fly randomly across the keyboard, they were still governed by my brain.

Think about this. A computer cannot truly generate random numbers. At least nobody has made one that can.

if you make two people do the same thing, and the outcomes are different... what does that say?

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Moron.
By replacing my quote with blablabla you disrespect me.
Added to ignore list.Did you forseee that cunt?
Now I will gladly accept negrep for flaming this mob.
And believing in creationism is such ingorance.
You are born because your father fucked your mother and it's the case for every human being.
There's no superior entity creating you.

It wasn't meant to be insulting, I was simply replacing the block of text with something shorter because I couldn't be bothered quoting you.

Furthermore, your post shows how intolerant you are of other peoples beliefs. I had some respect towards you seeing you hold a nice place in the community, but you've managed to lose it. And I hope this post reminds everyone not to take your bias opinion seriously from this point forward.

And for your information, if you had brought down your massive ego for one moment, you would have read and understood the actual meaning of my statement:

Evolutionists are just as hypocritical as they claim Creationists to be, imo. I find creation as legitimate as evolution.

If you had read carefully you would have noticed that my statement reveals my not being a creationist nor an evolutionist. I am simply stating that Evolutionists rant on about how they have much more proof and their theories are much more likely than that of a higher entity having created us. I find both theories plausible, but I'm not convinced by either of them.

Don't worry about apologizing, your ignorance doesn't offend me nor do your petty vulgar insults.

 

[Eleandor]

If you had read carefully you would have noticed that my statement reveals my not being a creationist nor an evolutionist. I am simply stating that Evolutionists rant on about how they have much more proof and their theories are much more likely than that of a higher entity having created us. I find both theories plausible, but I'm not convinced by either of them.

Evolution is scientific. A scientific theory cannot be proven to be correct, but it can be disproven.
Intelligent Design is religious. Believers use pseudo-scientific "reasons" to prove it, while leaving no possible experiment to disprove it.

It's no longer about what is plausible, it's about what is scientific. What theory could actually be disproven by experiment. Intelligent Design cannot be so it is not a legitimate theory to talk about. You cannot argue with religious people, because they don't believe in the scientific way. If they would, they would not argue about intelligent design in the first place.

Scientifically speaking, if you think they do not mutually exclude each others, you don't know science. They're each others opposites. Like black and white. Since there's only one theory that could be disproven, we just throw away the other theory as being useless.

--

Lol idiot you're saying exactly the opposite of predetermined.
If your way of thinking is determined by his experience and his education and the decision he made then it's not predetermined.
You're giving us more ground for argument.

You're the idiot. Predetermined life means that you can backtrack anything you say. Whatever you say next is the *only* possible thing you could have said because your brain will always think the same in the precise situation we have here. It is a natural response to start babbling nonsense such as "asdf;lkjasd;flkjask;ldfj." to prove life is not predetermined. The thing here is that you would have *always* said nonsense in this situation because life is predetermined.
Every action invokes a response. Given the precise same situation you were in at 08:40 AM (my time zone) you would have responded the precise same thing. At least that is the theory. It cannot be proven scientifically because we cannot reproduce the same situational environment as it was at 08:40 AM. We cannot prove nor disprove it. Therefor, both theories are equally possible.

It's all a transition function. Given a specific (and very complex) situation, you will always take the same action. Given that it's 08:40 AM, you're sitting behind this pc and you're reading someone say life is predetermined and everything in you screams to prove him wrong. So you start randomly pressing keys on your keyboard.
But does that prove life is not predetermined? If we could reproduce the EXACT same situation, and you would do something different then life is not predetermined.

I am however convinced that life IS predetermined. We cannot reproduce the same situation, but logic says that if the situation would be exactly the same, you would still answer the same thing. Why? Because you have no knowledge of the future. You do not know if your future self would want to do something differently in the past, simply because you're actually living it. Because of that, you do not have the ability to change what you want to do. If you don't have the ability to change what you want to do, life is predetermined?

As I said: neither theories can be proven or disproven, hence they're equally possible. It just seems more logically plausible to be predetermined to me.

 

[PurplePoot]

Personally I just can't see how anything could have evolved. How would you evolve an eye? Light hits your skin and you just happen to have a way to detect that and then your body tries to manipulate the light? Don't tell me the eyeball came about randomly as some sort of genetic mutation that wasn't even intended to be able to see but could. Basically life had to start at some point with sensory and the ability to evolve. There's no way we came from primordial goo!

Old quote, but I can make up random gibberish when I don't understand a field too; it just doesn't make it right. The evolution of the eye is very well documented and you can look up its progression if you wish to.

--

Also, I am convinced that life is predetermined in the same way a dice game on the computer would be; using the analogy, there's a random seed somewhere which is generating a predictable string of results, but you don't know the seed nor the position and thus it is for all intents and purposes random as far as observation goes.

 

[Callahan]

You're the idiot. Predetermined life means that you can backtrack anything you say. Whatever you say next is the *only* possible thing you could have said because your brain will always think the same in the precise situation we have here. It is a natural response to start babbling nonsense such as "asdf;lkjasd;flkjask;ldfj." to prove life is not predetermined. The thing here is that you would have *always* said nonsense in this situation because life is predetermined.
Every action invokes a response. Given the precise same situation you were in at 08:40 AM (my time zone) you would have responded the precise same thing. At least that is the theory. It cannot be proven scientifically because we cannot reproduce the same situational environment as it was at 08:40 AM. We cannot prove nor disprove it. Therefor, both theories are equally possible.

It's all a transition function. Given a specific (and very complex) situation, you will always take the same action. Given that it's 08:40 AM, you're sitting behind this pc and you're reading someone say life is predetermined and everything in you screams to prove him wrong. So you start randomly pressing keys on your keyboard.
But does that prove life is not predetermined? If we could reproduce the EXACT same situation, and you would do something different then life is not predetermined.

I am however convinced that life IS predetermined. We cannot reproduce the same situation, but logic says that if the situation would be exactly the same, you would still answer the same thing. Why? Because you have no knowledge of the future. You do not know if your future self would want to do something differently in the past, simply because you're actually living it. Because of that, you do not have the ability to change what you want to do. If you don't have the ability to change what you want to do, life is predetermined?

As I said: neither theories can be proven or disproven, hence they're equally possible. It just seems more logically plausible to be predetermined to me.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/predetermined

Now who looks silly?
If it was predetermined you could actualy forsee the future.
It's not because you can predict your act that it is predtermined you're not an example stop staring your navel.
So go mystic guru teel me what will be my next post.
If you don't know stfu.


@Elenai : It is not cowardice to ignore a lame user that can't even quote my post correctly.It is just the internet we're all hiding behind pseudonym, there's no cowardice nor bravery here.When everything goes wrong in my life I don't praise a god crying like a baby to rassure me.I just move my ass it works better.

Your youtube video is lotr movies lol.I don't give a shit about fantasy movie here it was meant to be enjoyable whit lot of sfx and stuff It doesn't worth a penny here.If you learn something from that blockbuster movie then it's laughable.
And it's not because you decided to say pickle and shit in your post that it was predetermined.

Creationism is mythological, people thought about it when humanity has little knowledge thousands years ago.Now our knowledge increased and most plausible way we're here is the evolution.
And in case you don't know adaptation to environement is evolution so you are contradictory in your post.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

I think I don't speak for myself alone when I say it would be nice if you'd stop responding with such hostility towards people just because they don't share your opinion. If you've got a point to prove, do it intellectually. Your insults are not needed here.

I've reported your posts.

 

[Element of Water]

If it was predetermined you could actualy forsee the future.

FFS.
The point we've been trying to make is that, yes, life is predetermined, but there are too many factors to be able to tell the future.

Think about what you're typing before you type it.
Thank you.

 

[Eleandor]

Now who looks silly?
If it was predetermined you could actualy forsee the future.
It's not because you can predict your act that it is predtermined you're not an example stop staring your navel.
So go mystic guru teel me what will be my next post.
If you don't know stfu.

Lol... I think I can safely say you're the one who looks silly. I mean, come on, read your post... You can't even formulate what you're trying to say.

Creationism is mythological, people thought about it when humanity has little knowledge thousands years ago.Now our knowledge increased and most plausible way we're here is the evolution.

The only mythological thing here is the epic size of my dick. Now shut up if you can't talk without calling people idiots and cowards. Come back when you're a little bit more open-minded.

 

[Callahan]

FFS. Idiot.
The point we've been trying to make is that, yes, life is predetermined, but there are too many factors to be able to tell the future.

Think about what you're typing before you type it.
Thank you.

You said exaclty the contrary in the previous post saying our decision and way of thinking is determined by our experience and education.So we cannot make choice or decision according something that didn't already happened or even already exist.
If you like to deresponsabilize yourself thinking everything is predetermined and you cannot change anything, yeah keep thinking like that.It's just a very coward way of thinking.
I'll keep thinking I'm actor of my life and if either I succed or fail in my life is up to me and not any kind of destiny.

 

[Eleandor]

You said exaclty the contrary in the previous post saying our decision and way of thinking is determined by our experience and education.So we cannot make choice or decision according something that didn't already happened or even already exist.

No, because it all backtracks. What you say is based on your experience and education, which in turn is based on what you say or did previously. And given all possible parameters of a situation in the future, one could theoretically predict what you will say or do.

If you like to deresponsabilize yourself thinking everything is predetermined and you cannot change anything, yeah keep thinking like that.It's just a very coward way of thinkin

Depends on what you call change. Change happens all the time. You change all the time. You're the cause of change. But it's only an illusion that you actually have decisive control over what you want to change and how.

Compare it to an artificial intelligence. It is very deterministic. If you say something to a chatbot, it will respond in exactly the same way. Unless a random number generator is used, which in turn is still deterministic. Now just think of an artificial intelligence that is millions more complex and has a much, much larger situational dependence. A chatbot only reads what you say. A human is just much more complex and is also influenced by emotions, the weather, anything. It's just so complex that you can't make out the pattern.

But I believe that there essentially is no difference between our mind and a computer. And this can be extended to life in general.

 

[Callahan]

No, because it all backtracks. What you say is based on your experience and education, which in turn is based on what you say or did previously. And given all possible parameters of a situation in the future, one could theoretically predict what you will say or do.

You misunderstanding predictability with predetermination wich are completely different things.

But I believe that there essentially is no difference between our mind and a computer. And this can be extended to life in general.

This is a ridiculous belief.Anyone who knows a little about computer tech or have some common sense knows that a processor is not comparable with human or animal brain.
This is obsainly obscure to think that.

 

[Eleandor]

I think I know more about computers than you do.

You misunderstanding predictability with predetermination wich are completely different things.

Predetermination is only 1 step away from predictability. Read my post and you'll see the step.

a processor is not comparable with human or animal brain.

At least it thinks before it displays a result.

 

[Element of Water]

Well said. You're better at explaining things like that than I am .

 

[Callahan]

A

And it's not because something is predictable that it is predetermined.
When you throw a rock you can predict its trajectory according air friction, gravity, mass and cinetic energy released, the calculation is so simple that a computer can predict where it will fall approximately it will never be an exact result.
Maybe you are predictable because you're as simple as a rock and you have a dull personality but it's not the case of everyone
you != eveyone stop staring your navel.
You still misunderstand.

 

[Element of Water]

Stuff that was cropped from above post

Ever heard of figures of speech? Obviously not, because that whole argument was pointless. You're obviously searching for ground you don't have, or you wouldn't try to turn figures of speech against your opposition. Face it. Eleandor beat you. You've already lost, you're just searching for argumental grounds which don't exist.

 

[HappyCockroach]

IMO Eleandor just trolled Callahan and said nonsense. A brain cannot EVER be compaired to a calculator. The brain works with chemical reactions and impulses, and it's capable of relating sounds, images, tastes or feelings with memories, and communicate with a body that obeys it.
A calculator can only wait for an input to give an obvious output.

That vision of one future, and only one future comes to us when we look at our past, which has already happened. What we think and do now will result in other present. Determined or not, it's a mystery. So it isn't determined at all.

 

[Callahan]

Ever heard of figures of speech? Obviously not, because that whole argument was pointless. You're obviously searching for ground you don't have, or you wouldn't try to turn figures of speech against your opposition. Face it. Eleandor beat you. You've already lost, you're just searching for argumental grounds which don't exist.

Your post is laughable
And read the whole post before joining discussion.
If you'd do it you'll see that I'm also explaining that even if things are predictabel it doesn't mean it was predetermined.