Europe: The Art of War

[Chizume]

Excuse me if I missed it but what shape will resources take? Will they be displayed as items or perhaps on a multiboard or perhaps on the simple standard panel?

 

[Goffterdom]

I'm asking myself the same questions.

 

[Reaper51]

i say use default, to many resources get confusing
maybe you can have an multiboard for displaying where your gold/raw materials income comes from:
ie cities, trade, farms, mills, mines. etc

___________________________________
|GOLD |RAW MATERIALS |FOOD |UPKEEP|

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Yeah, using JASS to make it too.

 

[Chizume]

Alright. I myself am very weak for numerous of resources. I even made a list a while back you could check out.

 

[Goffterdom]

I'm only handling GUI.

GG list Chizume !

Thanks !

i say use default, to many resources get confusing

There will only be 2 resources: gold and raw materials.

If there are "Resources Buildings" they will give gold or raw materials or products to sell, but not new resources.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Or you could try using resources as 'Units' like in some games?

 

[Goffterdom]

Added Moral and Diplomacy Systems to the map description.

I will create a major idea thread later on.

Concerning the resource and trade system, it is the greatest mountain I have to climb for now.

 

[Tleno]

Well, Morale system is nice, but it kinda like ussually overloads people with unneceseary microing if it makes units flee, so you should just make a major debuff, that's it. And it should be a visible debuff so players would know what units to send back...

 

[SasuhKun]

12 models ? You wanted to say 24 didnt you ?
You guessed right, the problem is the lack of models. But it's also the lack of knowledge, I dont know what to add as second units for nations.
Remember that I also need units and buildings models for south nations.


A unique unit = a unique unit concept (to avoid just better versions of regular units), a unique model, unique stats.

Concerning practical uses I dont know if I understood everything.
As far as I know I will have one ability for almost every unit (for instance knights will be able to charge). So I think it will add one more use for all units.


It's not over yet ! I dont have an official triggerer, Foxy proposed his help but maybe he won't be able to, I will need to be sure I have a partner. And concerning the terrainer I'm still waiting to see what he's able to do and what are his motivations.


I am encouraging this kind of behaviour, it is what a general would do.
"General, the enemy has taken his position over the hill"
"Hmm, what are his formations ?"
"Three cavalry regiments and one bowman pack"
"I see. Let's use our pikemen, they will stand against the knights".

1. Ah, in fact UNIQUE? In Lords of Europe, they really were improvements of normal units... Except two units. Which were overpowered just for being different. *cough cough* cossak and HRE's*cough cough*.

2. Indeed. But I meant to not ONLY use that. I mean PRACTICAL uses! For instance, using the very same example, and basing on two units (Warrior[Which have rage] and Light Cavalry [Which have a extremely low attack... but high atk speed. AND a high "Trample", since they can pretty much attack while they move... That, AND the horse.]

"Sir, what are your orders?"
"Demonstrate our heavy cavalry and archers to our enemy, then let our archers shoot'em until they get close. As they come closer, the archers must run off, while the pikemen chases them off."
"Sir?! How do you know they're using pikemen, and what about the archers?!"
"Don't question me, Commander. Our light cavalry will them rush side by side and behind the pikemen, striking out as many as they can, without getting hit at all. Confused and demoralized, half of the lasting pikemen will feel the rage of our Warriors."
"Oh... I see Sir. Off we go."

See? Although Light Cavalry and Warriors are both weak against lance attacks, their potential practical uses plus some micro management would be just awesome to use. Besides, with that, strategy goes beyond than thinking what counter to use, got it? And if you see, all the great battles of history are only great because of one maneuveur such as this. It is what defines the supremacy of a nation, or in case, its general.

Germany = Holy Roman Empire

Trade Empires can train units, but if they focus on economy it's logical they have less army than Empires based on Conquests, so they will probably need help...

Popularity: I wanted it to be based on different elements or only one but that makes sense. Taxes are fine, I wanted to use them (+ or - taxe) but I'm afraid this is "too much" for players to handle. And it would also effect a lot of other systems in the game, leading to an over complicated system to brainstorm for me. But maybe I'll finally use them.


Because I didnt explain it.
Nothing is set atm but the influence system is needed to slow the expand of the players and to make more realistic the fact that it is hard to handle an Empire instead of just few towns.

Ok I'm definitively going to edit the first page right now.

EDIT: I'm not sure I like the name anymore. I'm borred of so generic names. GLORY OF WAR, GLORY OF NATIONS, EVE OF WAR, EVE OF CIVILIZATION, DAWN OF... and so on. If someone can provide me a unique name, I'd go take a plane ticket and kiss him IRL. Thanks by advance

I don't have much time, so I'll only discuss the name.

- Join me, men! Let us ravage through these lands and conquer them for our good! - And those are the first words that are heared by the naive young commander to their troops. Soon, more complex words appear: prices of trading, ally's requests, burocratic solutions. As the nation grows and grows, more words appear as well.

But there is a defining word, that shall put to test the supremacy of that very nation.

A word that define lifes, and alter destinies.

Before the "mortal armies rush blindly towards their doom," a last word is said.

CHARGE!

 

[Reaper51]

yeah i agree that units should be unique but not so different that its over powered.
If you have cavalry against spearmen, with good micro and unit positioning you should actually have the upper hand : )

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Separate researches for different factions would help too

 

[SasuhKun]

Well, Reaper, it depends. Although I would love to have practical uses for each unit, there are some boundaries that just cannot be crossed. Even if the cavalry is upgraded a bit far than the pikemen, pikemen still destroy completely cavalry. You see, in the example I used, the only use for cavalry was for passing nearby and damage using trample, only getting one attack or something so that they wouldn't die. The most used units there were archers, then warriors, and just then the knights.

Also, I wish a opinion about the name.

And Goffterdom, could you write in a list all of your questions and etc right now? For example, in a page after the last time I posted you said you had doubts about resources. Now you already have the idea of Raw Materials... Well, just list whatever you need help balancing/brainstorming/etc with. And if you think it is solved, make a new post with it with the issue removed. Or just do it in the 1st post, so we don't have giant pages of list of issues that are slowly decreasing in size.

Edit: Moral System's box's name is written Click to Reat. Also, you said you needed a lot of help on your Resources tab on the 1st page. But it does not mention the Raw Materials, so I don't really know if that's outdated. Again, that list I mentioned up above with ALL the issues (could also be separate lists triggering/terrain ones for other types of colaborers... A example? You said yourself you don't know if somethings are Doable, so triggerers could help you in that.)

Also, let's see what else can I think of...

About raw materials, you should propably be able to do manufactured goods with them (buying them using wood). And maybe they could sell for gold somehow. And/or be used for something (needed for a tech?) so players may like to buy it as well. Everything you actually wrote about are pretty nice right now, so I can't think of anything to improve those (except resources, but then again, we have the issue I stated above.)

Age System: I can't think of anything that really could work about it except the basic. The basic is that it is an upgrade (So when your capital is destroyed you won't get all the way back to Dark Age again), it have pre-requirements, and are just really important. The LoE's ages's names are pretty ideal. (For instance, remember my farm idea? Also remember that it would have a important upgrade in the 2nd age? Feudal Age isn't pretty much farming and walling (historically)? Aside from the upgrade, it could have an upgrade to walls. Like, a big one, Feudal Age's specific.) What I though about is that when you upgrade to a new Age, you would gain some kind of benefit (so instead of researching it, you automatically gain a bonus to wall's armor and health when you upgrade to Feudal Age).

Ah yes, although I know that siege engines are supposed to be extremely difficult to handle, do you think there could be a realistic solution to make them move faster? If they are as... Difficult as you describe, they're going to slow the army so much that until reinforcements (siege accompanied) arrive for example, the 1st forces would already be dead. Also, decrease the collision of units to a minimum, so it is easier to maneuveur them in battle. Of course, they wouldn't have 0 collision, for it would be just too... Weird.

Influence System... Wooray. Ah, the days I suicided my own armies so my enemies would lose cities and be overwhelmed.

A balanced system will be hard, hard, HARD. Although it is not supposed to be subtle or too easy as well. Geez...

I can't really think of anything like that right now, except for the already proposed systems (the original system, Garrisons, etc.)

Moving on... Heroes. You already covered them a bit on Warfare, so... Let's see. After gaining some experience in battle (which is a bit hard, really) your unit becomes a High Ranked version of that unit. I think that of all buffs it would recieve, aside from Moral bonuses, would be to be more durable, since you worked HARD to make that unit actually survive two or three battles. It should propably have a aura that increases both mana regeneration and armor.

A Hero, however...

Heroes are way more... Berserk than High Ranked units. While the 2nd thrive for survivability, the 1st are there to make a difference. A big difference... In the number of enemy corpses. While they maintain the mana regen aura, they will win a command aura instead, (well, depends on the hero. Archer hero would win ranged damage aura instead?) And offensive abilities. But I have almost no idea about what would they be. A classic, Swordsman Hero could have (depending on the total number of spells) a basic damage aura and... Cleave? Ah, I really don't know. But I did though of a good skill for a could-be Paladin Hero or something. Could also be a Priest skill (the Priest's would be a Shout type, with a duration. Paladin's would be a aura.) Blessed by God: Each hit in the name of God allows you to live longer (as you should have guessed, vampiric aura.)

Ship System. I know what you DO mean...

They would have no attack, just skills. The basic skill, use Cannons, which will fire to both sides (or separate skills for each side). Siege ships would have a attack (I think that some nations actually used ships with implemented Trebuchets) But they would be innefective against Ships. Or not. They should have a minimum range, though. More skills... Stationary? Increases attack speed and decreases CD of the other skills... But they simple do not dodge anything anymore. Or in case if the cannon balls really aren't dodgeable at all, decreases armor or something. Also, Grappling: depending on a number of factors, you could control a enemy ship. For instance, one could buy crew for a ship, which would be represented by mana! The bigger the ship, the bigger is their maximum mana. Crew dies as you take damage, and even more if the other ships specialize on taking crews out, as stated soon. The more mana you have, the stronger and/or faster your skills are, as well as the rate of success of grappling, which would also depends on the number of enemy crew. Some ships could specialize in taking out crew, so that the ship sinks actually of having no crew at all (dies with 0 mana) or are almost empty so that they could be easily taken over. When you conquer a ship your mana is divided into two and a half goes to that ship. Mana regens naturally near ports, but items that restore mana could be bought to make them grow faster. There could also be items for normal troops to regenerate faster (Beer!). And in case you're thinking "Normal troops aren't supposed to regen mana near Ports", Ports have lots of taverns for your ol' tired soldiers to rest a bit. Of course, mana regen would have to increase mana percentually to balance that out.

Battles would require so much of a player that I fear for someone which fights on two fronts. So I though of a pretty nice skill to help outnumbered players! A "Run" skill. Every living thing has it, and its use is pretty much obvious. Although... If you're running away from something, you are very likely to be a LOT easier killed than fighting. So running also decreases your armor. A LOT.

Whew. That was exhausting. I hope I helped.

 

[Reaper51]

maybe you could use cavalry archers to kite the pikemen before they get to your knights

also for siege engines you might have 2 engineers operating them, if they get killed the siege weapon doesn't work and becomes neutral unless manned again

also i hate wc3 armor system

 

[SasuhKun]

FTW, I finally tested my practical use of Warrior/Crusader.

They're awesome.

And to commemorate...

Tada!

And you forgot opining about the unique name I provided. And I never really got the difference between mounted archers and normal archers, except for the mov speed... Lol.

I wish I had posted a screenshot about the end (if you watch the replay you'll see) of the Light Show Commemoration of Victory! (located at East of Egypt in the end of the replay.) Too big. Oh well.

 

[Goffterdom]

1. Ah, in fact UNIQUE? In Lords of Europe, they really were improvements of normal units... Except two units. Which were overpowered just for being different. *cough cough* cossak and HRE's*cough cough*.

Yeah I'll try to make them unique.

2. Indeed. But I meant to not ONLY use that. I mean PRACTICAL uses! For instance, using the very same example, and basing on two units (Warrior[Which have rage] and Light Cavalry [Which have a extremely low attack... but high atk speed. AND a high "Trample", since they can pretty much attack while they move... That, AND the horse.]

I will also try to make battles more interesting in a matter of positioning / army composition. I can't make a unit that attacks while moving.

See? Although Light Cavalry and Warriors are both weak against lance attacks, their potential practical uses plus some micro management would be just awesome to use. Besides, with that, strategy goes beyond than thinking what counter to use, got it? And if you see, all the great battles of history are only great because of one maneuveur such as this. It is what defines the supremacy of a nation, or in case, its general.

It already works this way. Knights are weak against Spearmen but if you surround them you can kill them. Anyway Spearmen > Knights.

Although I would love to have practical uses for each unit

Considering the actual set of units you will need approximately each available unit.

And Goffterdom, could you write in a list all of your questions and etc right now

I created an Idea Thread. Click Me

About raw materials, you should propably be able to do manufactured goods with them (buying them using wood). And maybe they could sell for gold somehow.

This is exactly what I need, someone that gives ideas. Even if I dont like this particular idea Thanks anyway !

Moving on... Heroes. You already covered them a bit on Warfare, so... Let's see. After gaining some experience in battle (which is a bit hard, really) your unit becomes a High Ranked version of that unit. I think that of all buffs it would recieve, aside from Moral bonuses, would be to be more durable, since you worked HARD to make that unit actually survive two or three battles. It should propably have a aura that increases both mana regeneration and armor.

There will probably have two or three ranks in the unit promotion system (something like 4, 9, 15 kills). And you will be able to promote the highest ranked units to heroes.

A unit rank will grants higher HP regen and damages and higher moral boosting in fights.
Heroes will boost moral while casting spells (in addition to the regular moral boosing).

Ship System. I know what you DO mean...

You don't.
Ships will certainly have abilities like "Boarding".
The custom system is a "supply system". Ships will have mana (no moral) that represents the current supplying of the crew. When mana hits 0 the ship sinks. Ships have a negative mana regeneration and recovers mana only nearby shipyards.

Battles would require so much of a player that I fear for someone which fights on two fronts. So I though of a pretty nice skill to help outnumbered players! A "Run" skill. Every living thing has it, and its use is pretty much obvious. Although... If you're running away from something, you are very likely to be a LOT easier killed than fighting. So running also decreases your armor. A LOT.

Nice idea ! I think I will add a "Retreat" ability to the heroes, which would increases movement speed of nearby friendly units.

You said yourself you don't know if somethings are Doable, so triggerers could help you in that.)

I have no triggerers helping me. The terrainer also let me down.

Separate researches for different factions would help too

Maybe it will go this way but for now it is more "general work".

also for siege engines you might have 2 engineers operating them, if they get killed the siege weapon doesn't work and becomes neutral unless manned again

The more deadly the siege engine is, the more engineers it requires. It only requires engineer to attack, not to move. Moving is done under the "Packed" version of the Siege Engine (that you need to unpack ~5-15 sec in order to attack).

also i hate wc3 armor system

Why ?

 

[Reaper51]

wc3 armor is in %, it takes % from ALL attacks, all other games i play usually go like this: unit with 10 damage attacks a unit with 1 armor, it does 9 damage to the unit

one solution to do that is to used the hardened skin ability and upgrade it by upgrading ability level

also i can make cavalry archers attack on the move : )

 

[SasuhKun]

The only thing I have to write about (since you covered up all the rest) is the light cavalry thing. The Trample would be a lot higher than the normal Heavy Knight trample, since the mounted warrior would also attack. His normal attack is weaker because when he ACTUALLY attacks, it would mean he's focusing his attacks a bit more. Trample=Immolation="Attacking" while moving.

Also... Is my suggestion of the unique name so freaking invisible?

 

[Goffterdom]

Also... Is my suggestion of the unique name so freaking invisible?

"CHARGE" ? I didnt think that was the name you suggested. But I wont call my map "CHARGE"

also i can make cavalry archers attack on the move : )

Using the Phoenix Fire ability ? If yes I think it is ugly to just have an horse moving and some random arrows shooting everyone else. If you have another idea (which looks good) feel free to share I'm curious

wc3 armor is in %, it takes % from ALL attacks, all other games i play usually go like this: unit with 10 damage attacks a unit with 1 armor, it does 9 damage to the unit

one solution to do that is to used the hardened skin ability and upgrade it by upgrading ability level

I rather prefer the WC system, the system you suggested is way too simple IMO.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

How about making the calvary archers attack really fast without animation?

 

[Goffterdom]

That's exactly what I want to avoid. A unit that shot without any animation. That's just ugly :x

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Hmm... That should be some way, like maybe make it's shooting animation custom-edited to be a lookalike to the moving animation, but make it still look nice.

 

[Goffterdom]

I'm not a modeler at all and even less a 3D animator.

If I can find a model that looks like he's shooting while moving, I may use it. But I hardly doubt such a model exists.

 

[Chizume]

Besides as far as I know you can only play one animation at a time and is locked to either Move or Attack. If you have a move animation that looks like you attack the unit will look like it attacks every time it walks and if you have an attack animation that looks like you're moving...that'll just be odd.

EDIT: Imho the best solution would be to make two units. One unit which is the actual unit and another one that is frequently moved with triggers. Ofc this still requires model editing.

 

[SasuhKun]

Ahn... Me and Reaper discussed it a few pages ago. And it is also the simplest solution, although it really does not make any move... At least for the melee cavalry.

Immolation.

And to further the idea, make it instead of a permanent immolation, a toggeable immolation, which does not use up any mana, and when togged on, it continuously does the war stomp animation (although smaller, of course) and maybe if possible make the knight (if he has that kind of animation... Default Knight has it.) "charge" (when the horse rises and then goes down... I forgot the name of that movement.)

Charge does not fit? Not at all? I though it was so original and so connected to the map... I mean, nothing? Really? After so much thought... Ok, I'm depressed.

 

[Goffterdom]

Actually I'm hoping for an original name that also gives information on the map itself. Sorry

Immolation = Ugly way to make such a system
Immolation = I can't make the attack-move archer this way

The constant stomp of the knight is a very nice idea, but I'm afraid it would make them too strong, but they can be nerfed in damages to counterbalance... I gotta think about it. Thanks.

 

[SasuhKun]

That's the idea... nerf in normal damage. Heavy Cavalry have medium attack and medium "stomp", while light have a lower attack and a greater stomp (which is actually trampling more teorically the knight attacking while he moves.)

Did you read? DID YOU READ THE WHOLE PREPARATION TEXT? It have ALL about it! I mean... Really? It expresses everything really well!!

The very beginning, in which you have some militia to start with.

Upgrading, make alliances, managing lots of burocratic things, etc;

And the final word, which is the essence of all! Which decide who lives and who dies!

CHARGE!

Don't you see the logic? Read the text again... (Preferrably, read the Idea's Thread one. It is a lot better than the one I wrote in here.)

 

[Chizume]

What's wrong with The Art of War?

 

[SasuhKun]

I though it was good too.

(As good as Charge.)

(Did anyone actually read the preview text and connected the points...?)

 

[Goffterdom]

xD Sasuhke. YOUR NAME IS FINE
It is just not appealing enough.

What's wrong with The Art of War?

I dont really know, I dont like "EtAoW" it looks ugly. And I dont like "Europe: The Art of War". So maybe it will just be called "The Art of War", but I'm afraid someone already made a map with the same name.
But it is also possible that I just let this idea down and keep the original name.

I finished brainstorming about Resources and Trade System and I think it is very original and entertaining for a strategy map. Ima post it the sooner I can.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

EtAoW?

 

[Goffterdom]

Shortened name for Europe: the Art of War is EtAoW.
It could be EAW, it sounds better (or EAoW).

 

[Chizume]

You don't have to be so precise. EAW or TAW or ETAW. I still think it works.

If no, then I guess mixing some names would work. Some examples of mixin' and trixin' below.

• Battle for Europe
• European Medieval Warfare
• The Art of Diplomacy
• Hardships of a Nation
• Domination of Europa
• ..:.-Super Epic MEGA Legendary Wars! VERSION 2000 X PLAITNUM FINAL fix (PRotektet!!!!)>-:...
• Alternative History of Europe

 

[Goffterdom]

..:.-Super Epic MEGA Legendary Wars! VERSION 2000 X PLAITNUM FINAL fix (PRotektet!!!!)>-:...

It made me laugh at work (like a loud laugh), I'm gonna get fired because of you >.<

Thanks for other names.

 

[SasuhKun]

Lol. I never saw any map named like that.

So just Art of War could just be fine.

 

[Reaper51]

eh so the short name is gonna be like AoW, like my map called Age of War (also AoW)

 

[SasuhKun]

Then the short name can just be AW... Just like the old clan. Did I say the clan got dismissed by a enemy hacker of sorts? I guess the other LoE clans didn't like the idea of a "Official" one.

By the way, whichever of you that are on US.East, tell me if you want to remake the clan (with the same name, if the map's name "changes" to Art of War)

 

[Goffterdom]

EAoW sounds cool actually
I think that was only a small disturb in my mind >.>

I'll try to post tomorrow the basic ideas for Gold / Political Power / Trade.

 

[SasuhKun]

And the resources... Right? Or trade's fused with resources now?

 

[Miss_Foxy]

What do you mean fused?

 

[Goffterdom]

Fusion.

Trade didnt fuse with Resources system, actually it's the contrary.

2 Resources:
Gold
Political Power (Honestly I think this is going to be very interesting to play and offer a lot of new strategies. Influence System will disapear then, replaced by this resource).

And beside, Trade System, granting a second source of income.
Finally I dont like what I did with the trade system, I posted on the idea thread (http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/idea-factory-462/europe-strategy-map-brainstorming-room-189596/).
I need some improvements to the AoE system that would make it less automatical and more complexe.

Another idea I have: Do you think it is a good idea to make buildings capturable ?

 

[Reaper51]

well trade is supposed to give you resources

 

[SasuhKun]

Make the buildings able to be captured would be too... Cheap.

 

[Reaper51]

agreed^

 

[Miss_Foxy]

What about allow 'Pillaging' of buildings?

 

[Goffterdom]

Ok, here we are.

Buildings wont be capturable.

What about allow 'Pillaging' of buildings?

Yeah yeah, there will be a pillage ability and maybe managed by triggers.

well trade is supposed to give you resources

Of course it does, it gives gold. But I want a system more complex and less automatical than AoE II.
I thought to make something like Merchandises have three "stats": Basic Price, Transport Ratio, Sell Ratio.
Basic Price: Basically the fixed price for each merchandise.
Transport Ratio: How much the price is increasing/decreasing depending on the distance between the two trade counter.
Sell Ratio: The ratio applied when the player sells the merchandise to his trade partner.

I wanted these two ratios to force the player to pay attention on what merchandise to sell, and where to sell it. But I'm afraid even with this, it will be just an automatical system.

Please help me about this.

--> Everything is subject to change, and numbers are just examples, they may not reflec the actual balance of the system.

Resources System

This is basically how will resources work.
Gold: The main resource, used for units, buildings, techs and so on.
Gold is earned from Taxes. Not original at all but the most logical way.
Each mana point of each of your cities gives you one gold.
Trade is another way to earn Gold.
There will still have a resource cap, increased via building Banks and by teching.
Players will also be able to increases the population max and the growth rate of the towns. I still didnt find a way to make logical that some people leave the town (in the present system towns are just growing and growing more). I know Chizume suggested a popularity system but it is hard to implement it since it has to have an influence over other aspects of the gameplay. Help me with this please.

Political Power: Here's the originality. As Trillium suggested in the idea thread, Wood is removed.

But it doesnt work as a standard resource. Each months it is "restarted" (you can't stack political power).

PP are used to keep the control over your town, submitting or vassaling other players, opening new trade routes and using capital's abilities.

Capital-City

Your capital will probably have a level (has a hero, but maybe managed a different way). There will be abilities: Martial Law - Decreasing the need of control over your towns for a short time
Call to Arms - Raise a small army to defend the capital
Conscription - Each time you train a unit you earn a small part of his price
Patriotism - Highly increases damages and armor of all the units nearby the Capital
Saint War - Highly increases damages over the other religion for a short time

Each months your PPs are set to PP Available.
Basic PP - The PP initially granted, rely on several things
PP needed - The PP you need to handle your cities and your submitted / vassals allies
PP available - (Basic PP) - (PP Needed)

Basic PPs
Rely on:
- Capital Level (if there's one)
- Current Age
- Political Structures (there will likely be few political buildings like Senate or things like this, if you have ideas feel free to share)
- Total Researches
- Military Units
- Some techs that increases Basic PPs

Needed PPs
You need PPs for:
- Each month your vassals cost a small amount
- Each month the submitted players you have under your control cost a large amount
- Every cities you have cost influence depending on the control degree you have uppon them

Control Degree and Revolts

An item represents the control you have over the town. When you capture it Control Degree is set depending on how far the town is from your capital. Each month it needs one less degree. The more control degree it has the more difficult it is to handle the town. Each time your PP available fall to half of basic PP all the town with the higher degree control will gain one more point (instead of loosing one). If the town with the higher degree is already at the maximum posible it has x% chance to revolt.

Available PPs
The rest of the PP you did not use. Used to use Capital's abilities and... (need other ideas here !)

So, now comments and give me feedback please!

 

[SasuhKun]

Technically you should have posted that on the idea thread... But oh well.

About the Caravans, do you saw my idea on the other thread? Different routes have different consequences on the caravans. For instance, if a caravan is passing through a city, it have a great chance of a event happening (50% chance of a bad thing, 30% chance of a good thing, 20% chance of nothing sounds like goods values for me). A example of a bad one is actually the most propably event: Taxes. On Feudal Age at least, caravans had to pay taxes for every feud they passed through. Although (in both cases) it was worth it in the very end, keep going through those taxes could drain you some gold until you reached your final destiny. You also have the chance of going away from cities, not perpetuating any event, but facing a longer journey, and a greater risk of PLAYER interference, since you're away from the city protection.

The only idea I have regards popularity would still be connected to that system I suggested some ages behind. For instance, aside from Garrisons, better defenses, and Farms (won't be used), you could also do popularity buildings. EVEN with the upgrades and etc, there's a point that a previously established ratio of de-grow will be the same as the grow ratio, and the town won't grow at all. For instance, you could build a Inn! Or a statue. Dunno. Also, popularity is linked with the flow of people leaving and entering. Meaning if you have a positive popularity, your growth ratio increases overtime, while having a negative popularity means the opposite. So when units die nearby a city and people leave it, that also leave its stain on its popularity too! No one wants to live in cities near losing battles!

AH yes, a question: There will still be creeps? I mean, guarding the towns and all? Would be boring to just go around and build garrisons. I want BLOOD SPILLED! Besides, it gives some starting experience to units.

On Senate you do all your political units! Emissary, Spies... Ahn... Dunno the rest. Maybe it have upgrades for that kind of thing.

Available PP could actually be used to do political actions (just as Piety, from KoH...) for instance, if you don't have freaking enough PP to use to signal the white flag (although it requires very little PP), your enemies will just disrespect it and keep attacking (ability won't work, or shall work for 2 seconds because of the doubt of your enemies.) Most of Emissary abilities could work in that way. Could also work on spies, but not solely basing on it. Needed both some PP and both some power from the Spy itself (since Spies do not fight, their mana could be used, and it wins some the more time he spends nearby a enemy building or city or something. Or just normal regen... Although moral-increasing units could increase its mana. Geez. Maybe just custom triggering it?)

Also, I sense a huge in-game board coming.

 

[Nightblade]

I see that you want the vassal system to be beneficial.But the stuff im seeing is making me think otherwise.
The vassals are going to eat my PP.They will also revolt if they become too powerful.But what am I getting in return?Thier unique unit or possibly some technology that I would not have,and some gold.
Ideas:

A technology that will require for you to spend some gold but set PP needed to 0 for x amount of time

 

[Miss_Foxy]

What do you mean 'managed by triggers'? Isn't it going to be like the Warcraft III's Pillage?

 

[SasuhKun]

WC3's rape both gold and wood... But wood is PP in this, which really cannot (and should not) be just pillaged by someone. I had some other idea about that, but I forgot.

Also, I have two more ideas for names!

First, somewhat generic, but just came to my mind and I though that it could fit.

The Power, or just Power. I was thinking of your Political Power when I though of those, so you may have to "edit" to fit to something like Political Power that is not... Ugly, to a title. Political Power as a title isn't really appealing.

The other one is a bit more creative... I just watched a movie about Europe's supremacy over pretty much everything in the Middle Ages, with a very logical (to the degree of scientific) answer: the geography. (If you want more details, have a peek at a movie of National Geography named Arms, Germs, and Steel. Not necessarily in that order, I think.

Of all coincidences that made Europe supreme, there was one that was the beginning of everything. Without it, there would be complex civilizations as we know today...

Crescent: The Legacy.

(From the Fertile Crescent! You know, that little region in between the rivers Eufrates and Tiger, in which Masopotamy prospered, and from the knowledge of civilization spread like a wild fire, and etc etc etc. History class, you know. Although who showed me the movie was my biology teacher... Go figure it. Maybe he wanted us to note that Natural Selection's theory of Darwin is what made spaniards be invulnerable to smallpox in the century XVI, and still be able to transmit to the Incas and kill 95% of them! Hence the germs up there.)