2 Player Campaign

[Kabuto_Y.]

Spoon, for your undead campaign can you make it so Arthas can use Death Pact on your friend's units? Also about the Orc Campaign I think it would be cool if you could be Jaina on the last mission. Maybe increase infernos for insane. It would be cool if you used a Warcraft II hero for the brief time he enters the orc campaign.

 

[TheSpoon]

Use death pact on allies... thats a thought. I think I will : >.
Good idea!

Also remind me what the last Orc Mission is?

 

[Lich Prince]

Hopefully Ralle will approve my project for hosting soon;
Then we will have lots of space for all these topics

Yeah, its getting somewhat annoying to discuss everything in a single thread.
Although the Death Pact on allies sounds cool, it would kinda piss me off later on if Arthas used it on my units instead of his .

Final orc campaign mission is where you get to catch Grom's soul with a Soul Gem. Jaina has a nearby base and you get Cairne+Thrall.

 

[TheSpoon]

I've done some research; I won't be able to use Vol'Jin, he does not come with Thrall to Kalimdor.
There is another Troll who does though, Rok'han. So I may use him.

Nazgrel also travelled with Thrall, so I could also use him.

I'm just wondering if it will be possible to use this secondary hero in grom's missions or not.

 

[McQvaBlood]

I'm back.
I'm glad you're planning on balancing the Naga after all.

Good luck on the fifth chapter. Don't forget to make it awesome as usual!

 

[barowei]

Just a quick suggestion. I don't care about additional hero in Grom's mission, but in my opinion it would be nice to fight against him in the last scenario of orc campaign (so it should be this one, who drank Mannoroth's blood with Grom).

 

[McQvaBlood]

That would require additional coding, as the Soul Gem can capture any hero, so if we add him in, the corrupted hero can be captured as well.

 

[Twizter]

What if the players would have to return both corrupted heroes?

Or what if they had two Soul Gems, one for Jaina and one for Thrall?

 

[Lich Prince]

Hmmm...Nice idea Twizter. If both players' heroes, Cairne and Thrall, have Soul Gems then Nazgrel could accompany Thrall and Grom. He could also get corrupted with Grom, hence we capture him alongside Grom.

That would screw up lore abit though.

 

[McQvaBlood]

I believe rebuilding a whole mission just to include the extra hero's capturing with a Soul Gem might be a bit too much for a two player conversion.
At least the quests should stay the same.
Also, who wants to play Jaina?
This is the orc campaign, ffs. Go extract the map and change her to playable, if you so desire. It will take a good five minutes. Place a few items on the ground and pick them up once you begin playing and there you go, you can play Jaina on the last map.

On the last orc map, you'll play Thrall and Cairne and orcs.
On the last night elf map, you'll play Furion and Tyrande and night elves.
Otherwise this whole thing will turn into a project hardly resembling any of the original campaigns.

Yes, a three player Twilight of the Gods would be awesome. Spoon could even do it later as a separate map.
But please, don't get absurd.

There really should be some basic rules like:

• Only heroes whose control has been granted by Blizzard can be controlled by players.
• If there are not enough heroes who match this, then one hero can be added.

No controlling Cairne on the first map, because it changes the nature of the whole map.
No controlling Jaina on the last map, because it changes the nature of the map.
And so on.

 

[Lich Prince]

Chill out, nobody wanted a playable Jaina or additional heroes. These are just ideas.

Btw I think Twizter meant one for Cairne and one for Thrall.

 

[Kabuto_Y.]

I don't see a problem with playing Jaina on the last mission. I mean they are both trying to accomplish the same thing. It's like in Starcraft when you control Jim Raynor's forces and Tassadar's Forces to destroy the overmind.

 

[McQvaBlood]

It would change the map too much. I am dead set against making Jaina playable. Of course, I'm not the one to decide such a thing.

 

[TheSpoon]

I understand the points made, and I think I'd be inclined to agree with McOvaBlood for this one.

 

[barowei]

Well, about my suggestion I see no reason to don't make Soul Gem useless on additional hero. It's not very much to do, is that? Hmm, TheSpoon will decide - I'M WITH YOU!!!

 

[McQvaBlood]

Even if he did allow the capturing of the extra hero, what end would that accomplish?
Since the second player already has a hero, Cairne, even if you capture the extra hero, you can't make him playable.

And before you suggest it, I'll point it out right away that giving the extra hero to Jaina is stupid and makes no sense.

 

[Lich Prince]

McQvaBlood, calm down. I've had enough of Jaina from the Human Campaign too.

What would the capturing of a second hero accomplish? Nothing if you put it that way.

Now here's a list of why I wanted Nazgrel to be placed in the last chapter of the campaign:

1. Since you'd be playing with him for around 4-5 chapters, it wouldn't be polite to throw him out at the last moment.
2. It would simply add a little flavor to the chapter. No need for an additional quest. No need for an additional task in the main quest. No need to capture his useless soul. Just place him near the effin' Doom Guard. Whatever.
3. Fel Orc Raiders are kewl.

I know this may cause some damage to the lore, don't point that out.

Anyway, I agree with whatever choices TheSpoon makes or whatever opinions he agrees with. I'm glad he's trying to improve the Project's status.

EDIT: Chapter 5 is out guys.

 

[Twizter]

Yeah, basically its all down to what Spoon wants. We're just throwing out ideas

 

[McQvaBlood]

Yeah, it's all up to Spoon, but it's still needless to get absurd.

Btw, new chapter!

EDIT: Since this seems to be the only active topic on this project, I'll reply here to a post made earlier.

Just an idea that popped into my mind: On insane difficulty, you could remove the Amulet of Recall from the Goblin Shop because simply running through all the stuff (The towers, the Necromancer, the final big army with the Lich) in Divine Shield and recalling your troops to destroy the ship is lame.

I added webs though to insane mode; and it would be utmost impossible to weave all your troops through that!

(If it's not clear from the posts, we're talking about Chapter 8: Dissession)

Just before the towers and webs, there is a Goblin Merchant. If you look closely at the items he sells, you'll find 'Amulet of Recall'. Now, buy two, one for Arthas, one for Muradin. Simply run Arthas in Divine Shield and Muradin in Avatar through the webs and towers. Heal Muradin whenever he loses too many hit points. Once you get to the next ship, simply recall Muradin's troops to the ship and destroy it. Now wait for Arthas' Divine Shield to cool down. Activate it and run instantly to the next ship. (Having a Boots of Speed and Lv3 Divine Shield is advised.) Once at the next ship, recall Arthas' troops. Destroy the ship again.

You can skip through nearly half the map just by buying two items for 250 gold each.

EDIT2: Chapter 5 is great, though a bit easy.
There's also a bug. You can use Banshee to capture Elven Workers. They can proceed to build all kinds of structures, like Barracks, Arcane Sanctums, even Altars.
You can buy heroes from these Altars.

 

[tulee]

Yeah, it's all up to Spoon, but it's still needless to get absurd.

Btw, new chapter!

EDIT: Since this seems to be the only active topic on this project, I'll reply here to a post made earlier.
(If it's not clear from the posts, we're talking about Chapter 8: Dissession)

Just before the towers and webs, there is a Goblin Merchant. If you look closely at the items he sells, you'll find 'Amulet of Recall'. Now, buy two, one for Arthas, one for Muradin. Simply run Arthas in Divine Shield and Muradin in Avatar through the webs and towers. Heal Muradin whenever he loses too many hit points. Once you get to the next ship, simply recall Muradin's troops to the ship and destroy it. Now wait for Arthas' Divine Shield to cool down. Activate it and run instantly to the next ship. (Having a Boots of Speed and Lv3 Divine Shield is advised.) Once at the next ship, recall Arthas' troops. Destroy the ship again.

You can skip through nearly half the map just by buying two items for 250 gold each.

EDIT2: Chapter 5 is great, though a bit easy.
There's also a bug. You can use Banshee to capture Elven Workers. They can proceed to build all kinds of structures, like Barracks, Arcane Sanctums, even Altars.
You can buy heroes from these Altars.

Since you seem to be using this thread a lot, I suggest you read what other people wrote, I wrote about this before the map came out. It is a blizzard bug, not a spoon bug.


SPOON i liked map 5 and I thought the Phoenix guardians were awesome

What I think map 6 insane should have:
There are two possible ways you could make the insane:

A: You upgrade bases AI ect.
B: Currently this map is divided into two parts, the first part being the 5 orcish bases, the second being Ju'Bei thos' base. You can remove the trigger that prevents Ju'beithos's base from attacking before the other bases are dead or set like a time limit for him to attack. Also upgrading heroes doesn't do much in this map as they when they die they don't resurrect.

 

[McQvaBlood]

I'm well aware of this being a Blizzard bug and I also discovered it while playing through the original campaign.
Still, it's a bug nonetheless.

 

[Lich Prince]

Yeah it's a bug but it's also useless. They don't have good units and level 1 heroes at chapter 5 is, again, useless.

As for Chapter 6, I think the simplest and probably best thing to do is improve the orcs' defense and offense.

 

[TheSpoon]

I think I will fix that bug regardless, who knows what it could do to my systems.
Only the hero bit, I don't mind them using the elven race.

For chapter 6; yes I will probably do that.
Unfortunatley I'm not good at making the AI change tactics based on events in the game; it might be a little difficult to improve the AI.
I am thinking of levelling the heroes yes; and maybe giving each of them a new simple unique spell.
My other problem is that I have removed all tomes from the game, as recording the heroe's stats would create an even longer code.
That will be a problem in this map as you are meant to receive a tome for every orc hero you slay.
So I will make these books into a new holdable item that can be combined. So it is recommended that to save space you stack all the books and give them to 1 hero.

 

[McQvaBlood]

Like the Ring of the Archmagi you collect with Kael'thas?
That's a great idea.
Simply give the whole item to the hero acquiring the newest piece and there won't be a problem.
For example, if Kel'Thuzad has the level 3 item and Arthas acquires a new tome he gains a level 4 item and Kel'thuzad loses his. It's the simplest way to do this.
You could also give some extra ability if you complete the item.
For example, when you were collecting the Ring of the Archmagi, it was:
Level 1 = +1 Strength, Agility and Intelligence
Level 2 = +2 Strength, Agility and Intelligence
Level 3 = +3 Strength, Agility and Intelligence
Level 4 = +3 Strength, Agility and Intelligence, Brilliance Aura
Only, a Brilliance Aura wouldn't be fitting here as they are mostly Blademasters.

Also, if you make it into a holdable item, you can increase the bonuses a bit. I mean, 1 strength is cool when you just receive it and don't have to carry it around, but I'll surely not keep an item that gives like 2 to all stats.

 

[Bankai]

Spoon we have a problem
You have to do something with this because it is very easy



NICE IDEA McQvaBlood

 

[McQvaBlood]

Might I suggest you upload that picture in jpg rather than png, because it will take minutes to load it.

 

[Lich Prince]

It didn't load at all here =/.

Great ideas on the Tome btw.

 

[TheSpoon]

I think it is poining out the extra heroes bug;
I'm aware of that and I am planning to fix it

 

[Twizter]

Good idea on the tomes and blademasters. Keep 'em comming spoon

 

[delosumbra]

I really hope u continue this campaign even tho Sc2 is in full swing cause imo Sc2 was a huge letdown for me (yes i did try it) and would love to see this finished so me and my friends (share the same opinion on sc2) can enjoy the 2p campaign all the way through so i still support this 100%

 

[tulee]

I think I will fix that bug regardless, who knows what it could do to my systems.
Only the hero bit, I don't mind them using the elven race.

For chapter 6; yes I will probably do that.
Unfortunatley I'm not good at making the AI change tactics based on events in the game; it might be a little difficult to improve the AI.
I am thinking of levelling the heroes yes; and maybe giving each of them a new simple unique spell.
My other problem is that I have removed all tomes from the game, as recording the heroe's stats would create an even longer code.
That will be a problem in this map as you are meant to receive a tome for every orc hero you slay.
So I will make these books into a new holdable item that can be combined. So it is recommended that to save space you stack all the books and give them to 1 hero.

Ok then if you could make the heroes very strong ( especially the fel orc hero ). Also some extra towers in their bases would be nice AND if you could somehow upgrade the felorc's dragons to be very strong ( it won't make it that much more difficult as the fel orcs only fight you when all the other bases are dead. Also it could give a us a reason to use gargoyles because other wise they have no use till we fight human griffins =p

 

[McQvaBlood]

If memory serves, the red base sends Dragons at you form the start of the game.
And those Dragons are strong.
Countering them with Gargoyles is your best option.

BTW, I wonder who's going to get the Frost Wyrm at the start. I hope it's Arthas.
Additionally, on insane, you could remove that starting Frost Wyrm and simply play Kel'thuzad's line when the first one is trained.

 

[Kabuto_Y.]

About Chapter 8 of the orcs, I heard you already stated having Jaina not playable but I'd like revisit that topic and discuss acouple things. For one if Jaina was playable it would be nice to actually have your own base for once. Well you do get your own base in Chapter 7 of the Human Campaign and Chapter 10. Also I'd like ask how it hurts the nature of the mission if one player controlled Jaina.

On a different not not looking forward to Undead Chapter 7, I always hated that mission. :c THeo en where you invade Dalaran. Additionally I hope the arrival of Starcraft 2 doesn't slowdown or cancel this project.

 

[Lich Prince]

About Chapter 8 of the orcs, I heard you already stated having Jaina not playable but I'd like revisit that topic and discuss acouple things. For one if Jaina was playable it would be nice to actually have your own base for once. Well you do get your own base in Chapter 7 of the Human Campaign and Chapter 10. Also I'd like ask how it hurts the nature of the mission if one player controlled Jaina.

Dude it's an Orc Campaign. Plus, I think most of us want to control Cairne rather than Jaina.

Oh yeah, and 3 are better than 2.

I'm eager to play the 3rd chapter of the Orc Campaign, I wonder if Spoon can make an insane difficulty that survives Thrall, Grom, and the 3rd hero rush massacring the bases =P

If memory serves, the red base sends Dragons at you form the start of the game.
And those Dragons are strong.
Countering them with Gargoyles is your best option.

BTW, I wonder who's going to get the Frost Wyrm at the start. I hope it's Arthas.
Additionally, on insane, you could remove that starting Frost Wyrm and simply play Kel'thuzad's line when the first one is trained.

Yeah I think they do send some attacks, but I don't remember if it was Drakes or Dragons. Mixed up between that and the Blood Elf chapter where you fight a hell lot of fel orcs and Red Dragons.

Btw, I'd like 2 gargoyles as Kel'thuzad instead of nothing when Arthas gets the Frost Wyrm =P.

Let's hope TheSpoon doesn't get too attached to Sc2 and keeps his motivation-concentration on this project...

 

[McQvaBlood]

I'm just too tired of this. Think for yourself. Her control wasn't allowed by Blizzard, therefore, you should not be allowed to control her.
If you want to play Jaina, then do it yourself. This is a campaign conversion and it tries to stick as closely to the campaigns as possible.
If you really wish to play it, take 5 minutes to place some items and enable her and there you go, you can play Jaina on the last ORC mission.

Though, Lich Prince, your argument is a bit off, as if you both control orc, than there's already Cairne to control for the second player.

 

[Lich Prince]

Damn that was stupid, I totally forgot about Cairne. Sorry for that, I'll edit.

 

[Twizter]

It would actually be cool if the Red base would attack like all the others on insane mode too. Would add in the difficulty of protecting your base.

 

[McQvaBlood]

An idea: I've opened the Editor and found several lines that could be easily passed to Falric, which would allow him to speak some more.

Human - 02:

• "Murlocs? Here? They must have an encampment nearby."

Human - 05:

• "Prince Arthas, the undead forces have arrived."
• "Prince Arthas, we spotted an undead caravan, carrying a large load of plagued grain."
• "Prince Arthas, the caravan has infected the second village."
• "Milord, the third village has been infected."
• "Prince Arthas, we failed to stop the caravan. It has reached the final town and turned it into an undead bastion."
• "Ogres have moved down from the hills. It appears they are looking for a fight!"

His silence throughout the undead campaign cannot be helped though.

Falric should really make fun of his long silence on the bonus undead chapter.
For example they meet some random boss and Arthas steps forward to talk with the boss and than Falric steps in and says: "I've got enough of listening to others chatting. Just fight us and... shut... up..."

 

[TheSpoon]

I did notice those lines;
But the footman's voice IS different to Falric's voice.
And I think its fine having a silent side-kick xP

 

[tulee]

Lol I don't see why any of you would want to play as Jaina over Cairne. At the end of the orc campaign my Cairna had Mask of death ( 50% lifesteal ), crown of the kings ( +5 all stats ), horn of stormwind ( an armour aura like paladins ), Khadgars gem of health ( + 300 to hp ) belt of STR ( +6 str ) and gloves of attack ( 15%attack speed increase ). Seriously how could you guys want to pass up this hero for JAINA. Also having Jaina playable ruins the gameplay as in hard mode Jaina's base is actually unable to defend itself and you have to help them else they get wiped ( which is also game over as they control the circle of power ). Really Cairna is up there with Grom-Felorc, Arthas with frostmourne and Illidan in his demon form. They are all the strongest heroes you can get in ROC, why pass one up/

 

[Lich Prince]

True, Archmages are probably the weakest heroes in-game. In chapter 7, I simply mass-frostwyrmed their asses to death, including the level 10 Antonidas.

Yeah, and Fel Grom is an epic hero. Reminded me of something though, in Grom's second chapter, how would it be possible that a troll hero(if chosen) obtains a chaos attack. Would be hard for player 2 to down Cenarius on insane difficulty without it.

Oh and McQvaBlood, Alterac Mountains are mountains, the sentence about the ogres wouldn't fit either .

 

[McQvaBlood]

Lol, what do you mean by that?
These are actual lines from the human campaign that are said by Footmen.

Btw, I agree that Archmagi are weak. But don't forget that they have Mass Teleport, and a powerful 2.25 mana point per second regeneration aura. The problem with them is that they can be killed so easily and the seventh map's quest makes them a primary target.
Idea: There are those power generators near the Archmagi. On insane, convert them into a unit and make the Archmagi invulnerable while they still stand. So you'd have to destroy the Generator first (Something like 1500 hit points for the first Archmage, 2250 for the second and 3000 for Antonidas) and than kill the Archmagi.
This would disable any rushes. As even on Hard, you can easily just run in with both heroes and Frost Nova / Death Coil them to death.

 

[Lich Prince]

No offense, I assure you.

What I meant is that the line "Ogres have moved down from the hills. It appears they are looking for a fight!" is inappropriate to use since throughout this whole campaign the only chapter that ogres appear in is "Chapter 6: Blackrock & Roll, Too!" that happens at Alterac Mountains, which are mountains.

 

[McQvaBlood]

This line is actually spoken on March of the Scourge (Human05), where Ogres guide a Fountain of Life in the top left.

 

[DarthDeath]

why i can't play it with WC3 TFT. The map actualy doesn't exist?
Please help me!!!

 

[Lich Prince]

why i can't play it with WC3 TFT. The map actualy doesn't exist?
Please help me!!!

You need to launch Reign of Chaos.exe(Its icon is an Orc) in your wc3 folder. It's in the campaigns there.

 

[McQvaBlood]

No, these maps do not work in Reign of Chaos anymore.
Are you sure you have the latest Frozen Throne Version? (1.24.4)

 

[TheSpoon]

I'm not sure why it doesn't work for you o.o
As McOvaBlood said, have you definetly got the most recent update?

 

[tulee]

lol this thread is always very active when a new map comes out but then for the few days before the next one is released there is a lull in conversation .. haha

 

[scorrea]

hi spoon but How much longer? to play black rock and roll too! please I'm patient ahahahaha i need play............. I'm Adiccted