Fourth Age Middle Earth - Shadow from East

[Artins the Great]

Fourth Age Middle Earth

This Map is a Spawn based map. Mainly inspired by RINGWARS But what makes this map special is that this map is based on Fourth Age, many generations after Dark Lord's fall. This map will feature, Return of Morgoth (The Great Enemy) Multiboard which shows Hero & Unit Kills, and More.

Forces of Middle Earth
-The Reunited Kingdom
-The Fiefdoms of Gondor
-The Kingdom of Elves
-The Kingdom of Eriador
-The Kingdom of Dwarves
-The Kingdom of Dale
-The Kingdom of Rohan

Forces of Shadow
-The Empire of Harad
-The Orcs of Misty Mountains
-Chiefdom of Rhu^n
-Chiefdom of Dunland
-The Kingdom of Nurn

Some Screenshots (Just For your to know, this is my first map so dun judge too harshly):

1) Treegarth of Orthanc

2) Dunhold (One of Dunlending's city)

3) Band of Dunlendings raiding Small village of Rohan

4) Helm's deep

5) Khand

6) Minas Tirith

Now for crews

Modelers/Skinners :It would be nice, If not that's okey.

Triggerers :I got no idea what jass and all the complicated variables means......... I NEED THEM

Terrerainer :As u can see, Ima not very good at terrains... I need a good one.

Cinematic person :I will need few short cinematic time to time when special events happens. Like when Morgoth returns to Middle Earth.

Well that's all... I know I haven't got much rep and stuff but help would be appreciated. For more Info, check out my club, Just click on my signiture.(Supposed to be public and for everyone but I was babbling about my ideas with my good friend there) Thanks for taking your time reading this

P.S. If u got any ideas about my map, Just spit it out.

 

[Arvedui]

Hmm, well I saw this when you posted it but really didn't feel like posting at the time, and I didn't have time to reply anyway.. and I've forgotten until now.

Things I thought when I saw this.
1.) Don't use Kingdom so much, it gets redundant.
2.) Use at least some custom models, olofmoleman made some awesome LotR models, one of which is Orthanc.
3.) The terrain isn't as bad as you think it is, but you need to make it less.. scarce. From the screenshots that you've shown us everything seems to be in clumps and not very spread out. That goes for buildings too. If I'm wrong, it's only cause the screenshots don't convey it.
4.) Uhm, The Reunited Kingdom would encompass Gondor.
I know that not much is written about the 4th age, but why have 1 named the Reunited Kingdom and the other the Fiefdoms of Gondor?

 

[ShiroiSenji]

Okay the terrain is playable, just need some props and more woods and forests.
Like Arvedui said, The names aren't good ones. I have seen many models/Skins in Hive and Wc3campaigns, They should be enough for starters. And i think you should make it 6v6 perhaps. Nothing else much, remember to upload more pictures in future, so we can give more instructions.

 

[Artins the Great]

Thanks for your comments. Here is my "back ground" story for Fourth Age. I will post more screenshot later on day. Plz comment on my story and if u think u got a better one plz post it up here


Aragorn's Fourth son, Arathoron Is the High and Mighty king of The Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor. Under his rule, The relationship between mighty Fiefdoms and the Kingdom became closer and concentrated their strength on rebuilding their once glorious kingdom of Arnor. The trade flourished and enemies were under control. But things started to change when the rumor started. Rumor of the new dark lord swept through out Middle Earth, and it's People. The once glorious kingdom now suffered from dieases and civil disorder.

The Kingdom was drowning in fear and was in chaos. Taking this as their chance, Forces of Rhu^n called for a total war on Kingdom of Reunited Kingdom and Dale. Their drums rang like thunder in east and their forces wild and savage like. They showed no mercy and people of Dale was in edge of Extinction. Their proud city was enslaved and pillaged. But the Reunited Kingdom had another enemies to face.

Haradrim tribes had been united under the house of red serpent Umbarian Lords had been bribed to do their biddings. The Southern fiefs now had been swarmed over by countless Haradrims and only few has a heart to stad against these savages.

The Kingdom of Nurn now rises aginst the Reunited Kingdom. These Savagerly mans who formerly served Saroun was forgiven and sent to the fertile lands of Nurn in Mordor, but they had betrayed our forigiveness and allied these savages of Harad. They've started breeding orcs on their own to breed a army worthy of former Mordor. They've also screatly been building a temple that allows them to communicate to so called "New Dark Lord" Whoever that must be, These mans must face their death for their crimes against our kingdom.

The Rohrrims of the North have business of their own. The Rohrrims were entrusted with lands of Lothlórien from the Sindar Elves and the forests. Lands of Rohan grew with their pride. But the evil was not done. The dark mans of Dunland conquered the western lands of Enedwaith and rose high above all the barabrians. Their lands grew with their hatres against Rohan and tension between these two powers grew.

 

[Arvedui]

Hmm, that's interesting. Your story is fine.

More Questions I thought of:
1.) How many places are you going to put the Dwarves? Erebor, the Iron Hills, Aglarond, Ered luin? Khazad-dum?
2.) Are Elven strongholds (such as Rivendell, Forlindon, Harlindon, The Grey havens) going to be completely desolate?
3.) Are you going to include other Valar, besides Morgoth? Like Manwe, Tulkas, Orome, etc.

Oh also, I suppose you've read this, but it would be cool for at the beginning (during the cinematic when Morgoth comes back) to have this written:

"Wilt thou learn the lore
that was long secret
of the Five that came
from a far country?

One only returned.
Others never again
under Men's dominion
Middle-earth shall seek
until Dagor Dagorath
and the Doom cometh.

How hast thou heard it:
the hidden counsel
of the Lords of the West
in the land of Aman?
The long roads are lost
that led thither,
and to mortal Men
Manwe speaks not.

From the West-that-was
a wind bore it
to the sleeper's ear,
in the silences
under night-shadow
when news is brought
from lands forgotten
and lost ages
over seas of years
to the searching thought.

Not all are forgotten
by the Elder King.
Sauron he saw
as a slow menace...."

 

[Artins the Great]

Wow! That's one alsome quote u got there! I forgot to mention that Morgoth won't return untill these mans of Nurn successfully finish building the temple and rescue Morgoth from his prison. I would make sure I use that quote (Prophecy i assume) in the beginning cinematic showing Morgoth captured. Anyway I will answer your qustions.

1) Dwarves will have all the places you have mentioned under your control except Khazad-dum. Dwarves and goblins will share half and half of the mine untill one power drives other one out.

2) Most of the Elven strongholds will be deserted. Elves only exist in greenwoods and small number in Ithilien. Although Lothlórien will be entrusted by Rohrrims and Rivendell by either these of Reunited Kingdom or Eriador.

3) Wow! It seems that u know much, much, much more about Middle-Earth than i do. I only read LOTR and Hobbit when i was 13.... Well I dun know any of these characters except Morgoth..... So i guess in this map only Morgoth will appear. Unless I found people like u in my crew. I would love to ask u to join my crew, but it seems that u are working on map of your own. Thanks for your help!

Also, If u got better ideas plz post them up. New screenshots are coming up.

 

[Arvedui]

Heh, it's no problem. If you want to contact me about anything just PM me.
The characters I mentioned are in the book The Silmarillion. It's the background lore of the original 4 books (Hobbit and the 3 LotR's).

That all sounds good and seems to make sense.

Seriously if you need anything feel free to PM me. I would love to join your crew if you want, I have tons of free time right now lol.

 

[Artins the Great]

Arvedui, I would Die to have such Knowledged (?) person like u in my crew I would be honored. Anyway, what can u do? terrain? trigger? or do ya just wanna help me doing units and cities? I will pm u after my fellow crew finish his triggers. Anyway I got some new screenshots.

Dunlending Army List

Left to Right

Dunlendish Rider - Footman - Hillman Warriors - Dunlending Huntsman - Dunlending Axeman - Dunlending Ravager (Siege Demage) - Orc Warrior - Armed man of enedwaith - War Hounds

If u want to add any more units to army of Dunland, plz post it up.

 

[Arvedui]

Hmm it would be better to discuss what you would want of me over PMs.

Anyway, as per your map. Those are good for Dunlendings.

I would suggest taking a screenshot of the entire map in WE, or using Iseedeadpeople when testing. Fog of war makes me sad lol

Good luck with everything.

 

[Artins the Great]

I would like to discuss more information about map. The Spawns will be divided into two different "Kind" One will be town spawn other one will be city spawns. town spawns will usually spawn footman or two, and will have no change through out the game. The city spawn will change depend on the number of barracks u have which will need gold to construct. You will get gold after each spawn time depend on how many houses u have. the town will consist of 3 houses and single watch or guard tower. I would like to add "ringwars" spawn system that allows spawn to increase by number of kills, but I dunno how to do that. If anyone can help me with that, It would be greatly appreciated. Check out the unprotected ringwars map

 

[Arvedui]

Actually those kinds of spawns really wouldn't be all that hard.
the first kind would have to have a condition something like: Number of living "castles" owned by player (whatever) equal to 1 (or whatever). So that each time you create another castle (or whatever) it only does that 1 spawn. I do my main spawns differently. I'm using a flag system (like War of the Jewels) and using integer array variables for the spawns. But either way works well.

Also, for kills you have to make an integer array variable and everytime you kill a unit it increases the integer. So taht again you can make a condition that says something like Kills[1] (thats the variable) is greater than or equal to 100 (whatever) and another that says Kills[1] is less than 150. And have them both enclosed in the condition And all conditions are true.

Like this:

• kills
  • Events
  • Conditions
    • And - All (Conditions) are true
      • Conditions
        • Kills[1] Greater than or equal to 100
        • Kills[1] Less than 150
  • Actions

That's the way I would do it. Maybe not the most efficient, but at least I know it'll work.

 

[Artins the Great]

Thanks man, +Rep for ya.

 

[Arvedui]

lol it's fine. I just like helping fellow LotR map makers.

If you need anything specific from me just PM me

 

[Artins the Great]

Got a Question about the tower of Orthanc. In the book, the tower was described "Indestructable" after the ents attack. Should it be indestructable in the map? Because, It would be an great advantage for Dunlendings (Who in my map took over Isengard from Reunited Kingdom in fourth Age) because they would get endless spawn. For now the Isengard gets "Town spawns" instead of "City spawns" AGGGGHH What should I do about it?

 

[Arvedui]

I'd say have it Indestructible until their hero dies or something. Or just make it open to attack. Not many people are going to care if it's exactly true to the book. Though I do know what you mean.

 

[Artins the Great]

Well... I won't be posting screenshot for time, since my partner still has the map and is working on it. I would like to discuss about the cinematic in the beginning. I would like to use the Prophecy (i assume) Arvedui had posted, since i'm not good at cameras, I'm gonna need the Cinematic person to do it, Since I'm freshman in high school, I'm gonna need some really smart person to explain the prophecy to me.... but for now, lets discuss some ideas. For now, because I dun understand the thing clearly, I got NONE.

 

[Arvedui]

It's a poem found in the Unfinished Tales, in the Istari section. The "only one who returned" means Gandalf. Because he was the only Wizard of his order to keep to the true objective of their work. Saruman fell to evil, Radagast loved his animals more than elves or men, and Alatar and Pallando (The Blue Wizards) were lost. Also The Five were the wizard's order. Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar and Pallando. Alatar and Pallando don't come into the LotR story though.

Dagor Dagorath translates to The Battle of all Battles, or the Last Battle. It's a battle (that has yet to be waged) in which Morgoth finally returns to Middle-Earth. Manwe (whom I spoke of earlier) is the King of Arda (Earth) (He is also the Elder King in the poem). He is 2nd only to Iluvatar (God).

It pretty much is saying that Manwe has not forgotten about Morgoth. And that Dagor Dagorath is the battle in which Morgoth will come back to Middle-Earth and Manwe will finally do battle to him. Or at least that's how I interpret it.

Last Battle

That's a good website to look at. Also, I wouldn't (if I were you) worry too much about the meaning, it'll just look cool to have it while the cinematic is playing.

And sorry I don't know much about cinematics, that's one area I'm severely lacking in. Good luck with that

The cinematic should be dramatic, not too long because people don't like to have long cinematics in a game thats meant to be played. I'd say 1-2 minutes would be perfect.

 

[brad.dude03]

It's an interesting concept but again seems rather forced.

Morgoth cannot escape from the void. Ever. Not until the end of time when the world is unmade.

Also, it is duly noted in either the Appendices or Unfinished Tales that the Eastern kingdoms become allies of the West after Sauron's demise.

 

[Artins the Great]

Thanks you guys, I really appreciate your effort in trying to help me. I got a another Idea, According to u, Alatar and Pallando the blue Istari were lost. They moved east and never came back right? Maybe we can introduce the wizards in Fourth Age, u know like coming back to Middle Earth. These two became fell to evil in thinking that they can rule Middle-Earth without anyone to stop them (anyone i mean by any other istari with power) if it is impossible for Morgoth to escape the void, maybe we can use the wizards as the "New Dark Lords." It was just an backup idea u know if my original concept was too unrealistic. Also brad.dude03, Alliance isn't permeanant. Eastern mans were evil from begining, u know like serving Morgoth and stuff. According to my concept, The Reunited Kingdom became weak with civil disorder and dieases, why should the eastern man bow for someone weaker than them? I want some comments pls.

 

[Arvedui]

I was actually really interested in your original idea. But the thing with Alatar and Pallando could work too, mostly because no one knows exactly what happened to them.

I don't think that the Easterlings turning evil would be too hard of a concept. I mean they always were evil. First they were corrupted by Morgoth, and then again by Sauron.

So them turning evil again really isn't a bad idea.

I don't really see anything wrong with your ideas. Not much is known about the 4th age, and thus it's really up to your own interpretation. So do what you want.

If it would be too hard to explain, don't use the poem lol

 

[brad.dude03]

J.R basically gives it away by saying it was rumored that they went east and became kings over the Easterlings, and thus were some of the first to sway under Sauron's power. Certainly, by the time the fourth age roles around, they are long since gone, as Gandalf was the last and left with the beginning of the Fourth Age.

 

[Arvedui]

Hmm I still think the concept is fine because the general user is not going to know the in-depth details and they just want to play a fun map

Also! Someone posted these links to Cinematic tutorials.
Cinematics - Clan CBS Forums
Cinematics for Dummies - The Uber Tutorial - Wc3campaigns

 

[Artins the Great]

Auuh I still need perfessinal terrainer. I really need help with that.

 

[Arvedui]

The Morgoth idea is fine. Dagor Dagorath is the battle when Morgoth will finally escape the void.

The idea with the Blue Istari is a little far fetched. And they are not half-valar. They are Maiar. Lesser beings than Valar. Balrogs/the Istari/a plethora of other things are Maiar.

 

[Artins the Great]

Now, an another question, How strong should Morgoth be?

 

[jarri]

sorry for Double post, but I got some Screenshots~~~~


New & Upgraded isengard (the Building in northwest is War mill for cutting down the trees)

Siege of Edoras (Bit Dark)

well... in a word, the terrain sucks!!!

dude why are u putting everything so close to each other, spread out the stuff a bit, treegarth is hardly able to hold 15 units at the moment!

fix that and, for your morgoth problem, just make him as strong as archimonde or something, give him divine armor and let him have only one item-grond(his mace) and theres no need to give the men of nurn any heroes except morgoth at all.

and please could someone be so kind as to post a picture of wat morgoth looks like..?

and btw hivemodel update, there are some new armor attachment models, very useful i think..

good luck wid the map

 

[Arvedui]

well... in a word, the terrain sucks!!!

dude why are u putting everything so close to each other, spread out the stuff a bit, treegarth is hardly able to hold 15 units at the moment!

fix that and, for your morgoth problem, just make him as strong as archimonde or something, give him divine armor and let him have only one item-grond(his mace) and theres no need to give the men of nurn any heroes except morgoth at all.

and please could someone be so kind as to post a picture of wat morgoth looks like..?

and btw hivemodel update, there are some new armor attachment models, very useful i think..

good luck wid the map

Have you seen the entire terrain?

oh that's right, you haven't.

 

[Artins the Great]

Okey, let me answer this one by one.

- jarri: Wait untill u get the map, If u dun like the terrain, u may fix it. I just got my map from Arvedui, so I will look it over and send it to u. Also, didn;t I mention These of Nurn were barbaric savages? without any leaders how are they gonna stick together?

- XX_Noob: My bnet account is Artin, on east. I'm not on bnet much tho. Maybe we can meet when i actually finish the map? Also, I really apprecaite your help, but it seems that u got lot to do. Also, I got like three people who are willing to do triggers.

-Arvedui: Just thanks~~

 

[Arvedui]

No problem

The terrain isn't perfect, but it's really not bad. It's better than what I do lol.

There was only that 1 spot I didn't think fit in the map, but that was just me lol.

 

[Ghost765]

yucky pathing artses.
morgoth should take atleast 2 armies to defeat.
and when he dies, make an area of 2000 around him get totally obliterated. now that would be awesome.

 

[Artins the Great]

As I said befoure, U have a SERIOUS problem with pathing. Anyway, I dun think it would be hard to do a trigger that makes him explode and destory units around Morgoth dies.

 

[Ghost765]

something like the cinematic in battle for middle earth where sauron dies. he like dies, but then a huge blue shockwave kills everything around him

 

[Artins the Great]

auuh ohh... blue wave? I was thinking more like tinker's sucide bomb explosion.

 

[Ghost765]

tinkers suicide bomb? tinker doesnt HAVE a suicide bomb. anyways, it would look too manmade

 

[Artins the Great]

I meant to say one of these goblin sucide teams. U know what talking about....

 

[Arvedui]

If you want criticism on the terrain and ideas to make it look better, you should probably make a thread in Terrain Board - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site

Just say that you're new to terraining and could use some advice on how to make it look better.

 

[Artins the Great]

Well..... I'm not sure I'm "Pro" enough to post anything in terrain yet.... Anyway, Here comes Half completed Minas Trith

 

[Ghost765]

actually, thats one of the better representations of minas tirith in a lotr type map that ive seen.
are thosse trebuchets...battering rams? yucky yucky pathing artses. also, its "Spearman" instead of Spearmen, since theres only 1 man holding the spear.
I COULD possibly do this for you... in exchange for something OTHER than rep...

 

[Artins the Great]

Hmmmm.... Well Thanks for your FIRST compliment EVER on my screenshot. And of course, I know u hate ground pathing. Anyway, these catapult things are "Roman Onager" model by Mr. Bob. Anyway, Thanks for your spelling tutorial. Also, When u said u might be interested to help me.... I want yes or no answer, no offense but I got like three people who is willing to help me and proved them selves useful. They also dun mind ground pathing (MUHAHAHA). I want to know what u are good at, and make sure u are not working on something else.

P.S. whatcha mean by "OTHER than rep?

 

[Ghost765]

you can never have enough doodads in minas tirith. anyways, artins gonna let me tweak some things in the map to make it look abit more professional...

 

[Artins the Great]

Here is an Crew Member chart, this is a chart that list number of people who helped me and will be credited in the game. Just keeping things clean.

Modelers/Skinners
:Wugiboy
:Darth Mannoroth
:Em!

Triggerers
:Pytho
:Arvedui
:jarri
:XX_Noob

Terrerainer
:madcd

Cinematic person
:


Please, If u want your name to be in this chart, PM me.

 

[Arvedui]

My b.net name is a secret!!!!!!!!!!! (unless of course you look at my profile here >.>)

But I too, am on USEast.

Also, Minas Tirith looks good

Also, I just noticed, it's Orthanc, not Orthac lol I'm not sure if this was fixed, but it's on the screenshots that way, and I'm too lazy to open the map I have.

 

[wugiboy]

when did I join this team exactly?

I only agreed to make the mounted brigand, but not entirely for your project but for the public..

btw, ur terrains aren't exactly the best(compared to RW, and BFME), but its getting a long quite good..

 

[Artins the Great]

It's called "Crew member chart" but it's actually a chart to name people who helped me. I already said that. and I do really appreciate your help with mounted brigand, so I am crediting u, just like I will credit everyone who made the models i will use in the map, I'm putting your name in the chart because the model was made for me (Although lots a other people will use it.) and I thought it was good thing to give credit to some one when they do nice thing for u. Anyway, thanks for your compliment with my terrain, i'm practicing real hard. If u want your name outta tha chart, u can pm me.

 

[wugiboy]

ah nvm bout teh first shits I said then..

but anyway keep up with the good work, though if you really want ppl who specialize very much on lotr(terraining and lore wise) you already know where blizzcraft is..

though right now its kinda getting too inactive and filled with much flamings

good luck mate

 

[Artins the Great]

Here comes http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/artins+the+great/albums/few+screenshot++my+map/3646-osgiliath/ I hope it's good as Minas tirith.

 

[wugiboy]

it seems a tad too small but imo ur tilings are kinda good, just make osgiliath a bit more larger

 

[Artins the Great]

Okey, I know some of you guyz are very annoyed with all the blue wizard thing but according to "The Thains book, An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor" It said that the Blue Wizards were the founders of "secret cults and 'magic' traditions" that continued after Sauron's downfall into the Fourth Age and possibly beyond. Check out this link Other Beings of Middle-earth I just brought this up, because we desperately need a new (old) topic to discuss.... I'm too bored.

 

[Ghost765]

osgiliath does look abit small, and i think it needs more than one bridge, maybe three like in EA Games BFME, since theres gonna be alot of units jammed into that tiny bridge.
maybe add a few buildings, a few statues.
and if you can email me the untriggered map, i can fix some of the stuff.

 

[Artins the Great]

I made osgiliath small to double the "Effectiveness" of it's place so forces of Reunited Kingdom can use it as choke point. Although I will try to add more statues and buildings. I will try to "untrigger" tha map so i can send it to u.