Techtree Contest #4 - Improved Melee Race

The World Is Flat · Jan 31, 2011

I am out. too much work, I'll judge. i have too much stuff going on to commit the kindof work i'd need to win this.

Zpider · Jan 31, 2011

The World Is Flat, sure it has nothing to do with your previous comment?

The World Is Flat said:
..."i have forgotten how to do some basic shizz"...

The World Is Flat · Jan 31, 2011

Nope. Not at all.

Direfury · Feb 1, 2011

So... yeah, I'ma be replacing the Dragon Rider with an Ex-Bishop. Using the Holy Light to destroy whatever gets in his path.

GhostThruster · Feb 1, 2011

Pharaoh_, I LOVE YOU!!! Now with the extension, I can definitely make it!

Back from mah holiday, cured from mah cold, and ready to work in the heat of my enclosed computer room! 'Bout 75% done.

@supertoinkz: Maybe you should give us some names and mechanics.

@TWIF: Glad to see someone with so much determination and dedication!

Lich Prince · Feb 1, 2011

GhostThruster said:
Pharaoh_, I LOVE YOU!!! Now with the extension, I can definitely make it!

The deadline was 7th Feb since the start of the contest...

Or is it really getting extended?

Direfury · Feb 1, 2011

I can't really use a substitute model for my Bishop, but either way, I should have it modelled and animated by the end of today.

Ash Darkside · Feb 1, 2011

Curses, I am having trouble coding the abilities for my race. If this goes on, I may end up dropping out!

Doesn't JNGP support hashtables? Nothing I code with them is working! :ogre_rage:

I'll end up returning to GUI and I'd really hate that.

Magtheridon96 · Feb 1, 2011

this challenge sounds fun!
I know i only have 4 days, but i think i can manage.
Starting now... right after a sandwich...

Freyleyes · Feb 1, 2011

Oooh shit, I forgot about the contest

Its double time for me now, hope to finish

Wraithling · Feb 1, 2011

Submission time for me!

I'll just quickly go through the game mechanics of my race, accompanied by several pics explaining what the game play would be like.

The "Air Humans"

This race is built around the game mechanic of "Solidarity", with the "Recycle" mechanic playing a smaller but equally important role in defining the Air Humans.

The Solidarity mechanic allows every unit to give a bonus to friends, as well as receiving other bonuses from friends.

A quick example with three units:

1. Spearman
2. Guardsman
3. Guardsman

Each unit will give a Solidarity bonus, highlighted in green. Taking the Spearman as example, he gives a 5% attack speed bonus to surrounding friends, but will not receive this bonus himself. In return, he receives 2 armor bonus from surrounding friends (1 from each Guardsman)

Guardsman no.2 and no.3 each gives 1 armor bonus, but again not to themselves. Each Guardsman will receive 1 armor bonus from the other Guardsman, as well as a 5% attack speed bonus from the nearby spearman.

A slightly more complicated example (pardon the blurry pic). The 7 units in the pic are:

1. Guardsman
2. Guardsman
3. Guardsman
4. Pegasus Rider
5. Chariot
6. Spearman
7. Spearman

More units, more types of Solidarity bonuses but they all work the same way. Taking no.4 the Pegasus Rider for example, the total Solidarity bonus it gets is +3 Armor (from 3 Guardsmen), +10 Attack Speed (from 2 Spearmen) and +Demolish (from 1 Chariot).

Here it is important to note that there is a cap for Solidarity bonus. Each type of bonus caps at a maximum of 12 units, eg: a maximum of +12 Armor bonus; a maximum of +60% Attack Speed; a maximum of 60% spell resistance.

Unit Breakdown

1. Workswoman - basic worker

Solidarity bonus: N/A
The worker is the only unit in the whole race that do not give or receive any solidarity bonus, and neither does she harvest lumber. She has the Manual Recycle ability that allows you to sell any structures for a certain refund rate.

2. Guardsman - primary melee

Solidarity bonus: Parry (Gives +2% chance to parry)
500 hp melee unit with the Defend ability. Costs the same 3 food as Orc Grunts but weaker in hit points and damage.

3. Spearman - primary ranged

Solidarity bonus: Attack Speed (Gives +5% faster attack)
Ranged unit with a ricocheting spear upgrade, also has Defend.

4. Gryphon - melee air

Solidarity bonus: Hit Points (Gives +22 hp)
Flying unit that can only attack air. Can pick up Guardsmen.

Scout Machine (not shown) - light air

Solidarity bonus: Movement (Gives +9 movement points)
Light and cheap unit for scouting. Does not attack.

5. Medicopter - air support

Solidarity bonus: Mana (Gives +30 mana, 12% faster mana regen)
'Caster' type flying unit. Has abilities that supports and heals.

6. Gryphon Guardsman - heavy melee air

Created from: Guardsman & Gryphon
Solidarity bonus: Defense and Hit points(Gives +1 Armor and 22 hp)
The result of combining two units. The primary air tanker.

7. Pegasus Rider - ranged air

Created from: Spearman
Solidarity bonus: Magic Resistance (Gives +5% spell damage reduction)
Retains the ricocheting spear attack, also has Abolish Magic.

8. Chariot - mobile artillery

Solidarity bonus: Defense (Gives +1 Armour)
Medium-ranged anti-structure unit. Not much in terms of firepower but it moves faster than Guardsmen and Spearmen.

9. Steam Bomber - air artillery

Created from: Chariot
Solidarity bonus: Demolish (Gives +15% increased damage to buildings)
A relatively slower moving upgrade of the chariot, deals massive damage to structures.

10. Genius - air support

Solidarity bonus: Increment (x1 times bonus to all surrounding Solidarity bonuses.)
Rocket-propelled air unit with various supporting abilities. Its powerful 'Solidarity - Increment' skill doubles all bonuses (ie: 3 Spearmen give 30% attack speed instead of just 15%. If you have 2 Genius the bonus increases by x2, which results in 45% attack speed bonus from the same 3 Spearmen).

11. Flying Structure Prototype - unknown entity

Solidarity bonus: Damage (Gives +10 damage)
Large, lumbering flying unit/structure. A breakthrough into the possibility of making all buildings fly (in the distant future). Does not attack.

A. Paladin - Strength, melee

Retains a small resemblance of skills from before. Has:

Wind's Blessing - Heals friendly air and damages enemy ground
Zealous Body - Gains temporary hit points and strikes with more fervor for a set duration.
Solidarity - Recuperate - Gives additional hp regeneration at lower health.
Prayer (Ultimate) - Global effect that triples all Solidarity bonuses for a set duration

B. Marksman - Agility, ranged

Likes to shoot targets from afar. Has:

Quick Reload - Faster attack speed.
Precision Shot - Takes aim and deal damage to a single target
Solidarity - Critical Strike - Gives 5% chance to deal x2 normal damage.
Bombard (Ultimate) - Random bombardment on a large area, striking ground units and structures

C. Junk Collector - Intelligence, melee

Likes nothing better than to recycle stuff:

Flaming Junk - Hurls an explosive 'junk'.
Mini Gyrocopter - A flying, summoned unit
Solidarity - Enhanced Recycle - Gives 5% bonus to recycle rates. Can specifically regain back lumber.
Disassemble (Ultimate) - Destroys one of your own recyclable unit. Gains an increased recycle refund, while also restoring hp and mana.

Recycle is a simple, passive ability available on all the race's structures, mechanical units, and certain organic units. Whenever a unit with the Recycle ability dies, a certain amount of resources will be regained, depending on the level of the Recycle upgrade you have.

It is important to note that Recycle will only refund gold, not lumber. Also, units have a generally higher rate of refund compared to buildings.

Apart from having Recycle trigger when a unit or structure with that ability dies, certain other unique ways include:

1. Manual Recycle
Only available to the worker unit, it allows to actively recycle a structure, gaining a better refund bonus. Can be also used to recycle your whole base if the need to move to a new area arises.

2. Disassemble vs Reassemble
Abilities that only work on units, Disassemble will instantly break down a target unit with the purpose of regaining back a higher refund from it. Reassemble on the other hand will instantly 'revive' a recyclable unit that was priorly marked. (Disassemble is a level 6 Junk Collector's ability; Reassemble is an ability of the Genius)

3. Buying and selling units at a profit
It is important to note that the normal maximum Recycle refund rate is 70% (with the Masterful Recycle upgrade), and that it returns no lumber. But a combination of the Junk Collector's Disassemble, Solidarity - Enhanced Recycling and the Paladin's Prayer may boost the refund rate to a maximum of 160% gold refund and 60% lumber refund.. for a short period and with the right conditions.

9. Watch Tower - basic defense tower

Solidarity bonus: N/A (but it still receives bonuses)
A simple basic tower. Augment it with your preferred Solidarity bonuses.

10. Steampunk Tower - heavy defense tower

Solidarity bonus: Stun (Gives 7% chance to stun on attack)
A longer ranged tower with a siege attack. Augment it with your preferred Solidarity bonuses.

A rather rushed race in my opinion. I would have liked to spend another month or two during my free time to further tinker with it, but for now consider this my submission for the contest.

Good luck and God speed to those still working on their race!

Updated 6th Feb 2011

I would like to thank Zpider, GhostThruster and The World Is Flat for testing the original version and giving valuable feedback. Version 2 contains only a few minor balances, bug fixes and a new unit. This would be my final submission for the contest.

Fixed a bug where revived heroes no longer receive solidarity bonuses.

Added the Morale Boost ability to the primary building, aiming at increasing the effectiveness of Solidarity bonuses during early game.

A new unit, the tier 1 Scout Machine.

Guardsman loses Solidarity-Defense, but gains Solidarity-Parry. (thanks to suggestion by GhostThruster)

Chariot loses Solidarity-Demolish, but gains Solidarity-Defense.

Steam Bomber gains Solidarity-Demolish.

Watch Tower gains Solidarity-Defense

Medicopter's Solidarity-Mana now also grants mana regeneration.

No longer reveals player at the beginning. (thanks to Zpider)

Renamed the agi hero to Marksman. (thanks to suggestion by GhostThruster)

Zpider · Feb 2, 2011

Being the kind guy that I am and knowing how kind Jokemaster is.
I know that he won't mind me, on his behalf help you guys out with the "Pick Race" trigger that has in the past been a major problem for many contestants. I hope you guys find this helpful.

This trigger will let you pick a race ingame, without being revealed.

Initialiazation
- Events
  - Map initialization
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Melee Game - Use melee time of day (for all players)
  - Melee Game - Limit Heroes to 1 per Hero-type (for all players)
  - Melee Game - Give trained Heroes a Scroll of Town Portal (for all players)
  - Melee Game - Set starting resources (for all players)
  - Melee Game - Remove creeps and critters from used start locations (for all players)
  - Melee Game - Run melee AI scripts (for computer players)
  - Melee Game - Create starting units (for all players)
  - Cinematic - Apply a filter over 0.00 seconds using Normal blending on texture Black Mask, starting with color (100.00%, 100.00%, 100.00%) and 100.00% transparency and ending with color (0.00%, 0.00%, 0.00%) and 0.00% transparency

Victory and Defeat Conditions
- Events
  - Unit - A unit Dies
- Conditions
  - ((Dying unit) is A structure) Equal to True
  - (Count structures controlled by (Owner of (Dying unit)) (Include incomplete structures)) Equal to 0
- Actions
  - Game - Defeat (Owner of (Dying unit)) with the message: Defeat!
  - Set Number_of_Destroyed_Players = (Number_of_Destroyed_Players + 1)
  - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
    - If - Conditions
      - Number_of_Destroyed_Players Equal to ((Number of players in (All players)) - 1)
    - Then - Actions
      - Game - Victory (Owner of (Killing unit)) (Show dialogs, Show scores)
    - Else - Actions
      - Do nothing

Heroes
- Events
  - Map initialization
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Set Hero[1] = Nerubian Spiderlord
  - Set Hero[2] = Banshee Queen
  - Set Hero[3] = Magistrate of Death
  - Player - Limit training of Nerubian Spiderlord to 1 for Player 1 (Red)
  - Player - Limit training of Magistrate of Death to 1 for Player 1 (Red)
  - Player - Limit training of Banshee Queen to 1 for Player 1 (Red)

Menu Create
- Events
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Dialog - Change the title of Race_Menu to Pick Your Race
  - Dialog - Create a dialog button for Race_Menu labelled Human
  - Set Humans_Button = (Last created dialog Button)
  - Dialog - Create a dialog button for Race_Menu labelled Orc
  - Set Orcs_Button = (Last created dialog Button)
  - Dialog - Create a dialog button for Race_Menu labelled Undead
  - Set Undead_Button = (Last created dialog Button)
  - Dialog - Create a dialog button for Race_Menu labelled Night Elves
  - Set Night_Elf_Button = (Last created dialog Button)

Menu Show
- Events
  - Time - Elapsed game time is 0.01 seconds
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Trigger - Run Menu Create <gen> (checking conditions)
  - Dialog - Change the title of Race_Menu to Pick Your Race
  - Player Group - Pick every player in (All players) and do (Actions)
    - Loop - Actions
      - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        ((Picked player) controller) Equal to User
        
        ((Picked player) slot status) Equal to Is playing
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Dialog - Show Race_Menu for (Picked player)
        
        Else - Actions
        
        Do nothing

Menu Select
- Events
  - Dialog - A dialog button is clicked for Race_Menu
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units in (Playable map area) owned by (Triggering player)) and do (Actions)
    - Loop - Actions
      - Unit - Remove (Picked unit) from the game
  - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
    - If - Conditions
      - (Clicked dialog button) Equal to Humans_Button
    - Then - Actions
      - Melee Game - Create Human starting units for (Triggering player) at ((Triggering player) start location) (Include Heroes)
    - Else - Actions
      - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Clicked dialog button) Equal to Orcs_Button
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Melee Game - Create Orc starting units for (Triggering player) at ((Triggering player) start location) (Include Heroes)
        
        Else - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Clicked dialog button) Equal to Night_Elf_Button
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Melee Game - Create Night Elf starting units for (Triggering player) at ((Triggering player) start location) (Include Heroes)
        
        Else - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Clicked dialog button) Equal to Undead_Button
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Melee Game - Create Undead starting units for (Triggering player) at ((Triggering player) start location) (Include Heroes)
        
        Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units in (Playable map area)) and do (Actions)
        
        Loop - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Unit-type of (Picked unit)) Equal to Necropolis
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Unit - Replace (Picked unit) with a NEW BUILDING using The new unit's max life and mana
        
        Else - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Unit-type of (Picked unit)) Equal to Acolyte
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Unit - Replace (Picked unit) with a NEW WORKER using The new unit's max life and mana
        
        Else - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Unit-type of (Picked unit)) Equal to Ghoul
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Unit - Replace (Picked unit) with a NEW LUMBER UNIT using The new unit's max life and mana
        
        Else - Actions
        
        Do nothing
        
        Else - Actions
        
        Do nothing
  - Cinematic - Hide filter

Here is a link to a map containing the trigger. http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/requests-341/pick-race-not-revealing-townhall-183401/#post1766748
Make sure you give him a proper reward for his work if you decide to use it or parts of it (you know what I am talking about, feel free to mention my name while your at it).

I hope this helps you guys. I regret I won't reveal my race for this contest but most of it will be used in my project Marshland of Mystery instead. A project that started thanks to the last Race Contest competition (and Wraithlings awesome race).
Either way, you guys will be able to play my race eventually. I hope I get a lot of inspiration from your races.
I might even decide to add one of your races to my project if I find it fitting enough (with your permission of coarse).

EDIT: Wraithling, I recommend you (and everyone else) to use this trigger. It will prevent players from getting a message like this:

Also recommend you to remove the ground things on the main building and the farm building.
Because it tend to fail a lot. Picture to prove my point

EDIT: Wraithling, your race is really weak. Might want to try and attempt to balance that a bit.

The_Swamp_Warrior · Feb 2, 2011

I'm dropping out. Good Luck To All!

Sage Chow · Feb 2, 2011

@ Wraithling: Haven't tested your map yet, but judging from the description it looks very good! I really like how you worked out your ability concepts in an overarching system. For me that is what race-building is all about; finding a unique concept that ties units, abilities and strategy sensibly/neatly together. Unfortunately, this is overlooked by some of the tutorials people linked to earlier in the thread.

As for my progress: I'm really struggeling for time, as I'm constantly filtering my ability pool to get a fair number of cool abilities. I'm trying to find a balance between uniqueness and complicated trigger systems.* I also need to rehash some models; move glow inch to right/merge townhalls to conserve space/fix birth anims etc.
* Does anyone know how to catch a "unit finishes effect of ability" event? I could make a group and a loop trigger that checks if unit has buff, but it feels a bit tedious to do for every ability.

Wraithling · Feb 2, 2011

Zpider, thank you thank you thank you x10 for the advise and tips for everyone. xD

Yes I agree about the importance of the pick race without being revealed triggers. I would put the triggers in but there're also a bunch of other tinkering I would love to add too.. so for the contest's scope I think I'll leave it as it is; but I'll update it if I'm going to release it as a map

It really can't be helped, the models come in this way. Because it is a unique model that contains several upgrade anims, the 'foundation' should be much higher, like the altar, to hide the parts below it. I blame.. the steep hills. xD

As for my race itself, I guess it is weak :/ I keep losing when I was testing the race lol. Given another month or two I would gladly further tweak my race's balance and game mechanic, but for the contest I guess this is the final product for a one-month time frame.

Apart from that, is the fun factor good or bad?

@The_Swamp_Warrior: Sad to see you go :/

@Sage Chow: Thanks

And yeah that's my personal view of a custom techtree too. They should offer something different, but the path to making it different is up to each creator. I guess we both find having a unique concept is the way to go

I'm generally bad at triggering, but I always thought that a periodic trigger which checks buffs and the like (like the one you suggested) works better than 'A unit finishes casting a spell..' event. I'd say go the loop way, or alternatively you could wait for a more expert opinion

GhostThruster · Feb 2, 2011

@Sage Chow: It's what I've done, they're very effective timers... oh, and you can use... TIMERS! Use 'Custom Script: if GetExpiredTimer() = ... then'.

@Wraithling: Here comes the review... For the sake of the review, I will review it like a do a map.

Presentation - 3/5 - Meh. Aside from that bug posted by Zpider, there were alot of other things that could be improved.
-Names
'Flying Structure Prototype'? How about Sky Galleon, Atmos Barge?
This is just an example. There are some other names that need some more originality. eg. the Steampunk tower and lab, Chariot, and wtf is a Tech Shooter? I think you could've changed it to something like 'Grand Marksman'.
-Icons
Meh, bit bland. Could have used some different icons for the different Solidarity abilities. However, most of them were good.
-Models/Skins
I liked the hero models, and I know that it is hard to find a steampunk-type robot model, so I won't criticize the Junk Collector. However, I disliked most of the aerial models, with the exception of the 'FSP'.
The above is completely my opinion, thus it is not as reliable and not objective.
Gameplay - 4/5 - Hey, hey, the good bit! Generally flavoursome.
-Solidarity
Awesome sauce. However, your use of them could have been better. Like I said, the different versions of it could've used some different icons (imo), and the effects weren't as interesting as expected. I would give it a more exotic, yet balanced and useful effect. eg. instead of an Armor bonus, the Guardsman may have a Parry bonus, which % stuns and knocks backs enemies who attack any unit with the buff. The % and distance/duration could increase per stack.
-Recycle + Lumber
The Recycle was a very simple, yet effective system. However, I think there ought to be a better way to gain lumber. With the current system, it relies on your Junk Collector and constantly wasting gold to buy lumber, which btw decreases the gain rate per Market. And I didn't get to test it, but I think Recycle should only work for mechanicals.
-Misc
Since you're the 'Air Humans', maybe you should nerf an aerial unit and include it in Tier 1. Perhaps just as a scout or something with no attack, so it isn't OP.
Balance - 2/5 - This is the bad bit.
-Mechanics
As said, I think the lumber 'gainage' method is imba. The Solidarity and Recycle mechanics are unique, but they set it apart from the other 4 races too much. Now, I'd have no problem if you were making your own map and all the other races were equally balanced, but as of now the Air Humans are so unique, they're unbalanced (this only applies to your current race, this isn't a general term to say 'similar is smarter'). Resource management especially, has too much ups, downs and complications.
-Units/Buildings
I didn't like it. The fact that you have only 8 units (not including upgrades/morphs etc.) and 3 heroes makes it badly UP. If you somehow managed to keep them balanced (I'd say through combination, rather than individually), it'd work. BUT, you're strongest unit is the FSP and it doesn't attack. The rest has below 600HP, and their attacks don't exactly pack a punch. You may argue that Solidarity compensates, but, from the start, it was always supposed to be a support mechanic. So, you're left with a bunch of units with little to no firepower and crap defense.
Along with this is the lack of a 4th hero. It wouldn't be so bad if you managed to pimp your units, but the reduced amount of heroes just compliments your balance.
Bases were prone to attacks easily. Their funkin' Town Hall is weaker than a Barracks!!! If you managed a work-around, like the NE's HP regen and Root ability to compensate for their buildings' weakness, that would be alright. But, I see no Call To Arms, no Spiked Barricades, no attack with Frost effect, and definitely no Root. You again, could argue back, stating its low cost, but, that's a benefit among many weaknesses. Yes, you will use considerably less resources, BUT it is incredibly vulnerable for a Town Hall, especially considering its 120 sec build time, This makes it take considerably long for a TH that supsceptible to attacks, hard to defend a large attack on your base, and impossible to claim a new Gold Mine mid to late-game.
And come on, if you're gonna make a tower require a garrison, AT LEAST make it worth wasting 1 worker (and 1 food). Its attack is very low, its attack rate is low, and its HP doesn't make up for how it is a sitting duck whilst your Workswomen are busy in the Gold Mines.
One last thing, what happened to the 'air'? You could've easily tried to give the Air Humans more 'air', other than giving them some more flyers (half of which are made from upgrades and mounts). Refer to what I said, a Tier 1 flyer. This is just an example, but you could've implemented an Airship unit similar to the Zeppelin, that's adept at going in and out of combat. I believe you also said they were sorta nomadic. Where'd that go? There are many ways to do this (not including the NE's Root). Just a faster Build Time would emphasise it.
Of now, I see this as a race with little attention to its units, supreme focus on resource management, and a half-empty effort at making the Air Humans, 'Air' (you never had any mechanics to supplement this, and 4 flyers and 3 bonus flyers don't make up for it).
Creativity - 4/5 - Back to another good point, the Air Humans are a creative race. Most Steampunk races focus on mechs and dwarven shit. This, puts a unique emphasis on Aerial warfare. I only wish the implementation was done better. The Mechanics are very good, and so too are the units. But, I believe you let this get in the way of balancing.
Storyline - N/A
Triggers - 4/5 - For a race which uses so many custom abilities, with a lot of triggers, it has little to no lag! The triggers were nicely done, and I won't penalise just because of that reveal shit. Btw, alongside Zpider's solution, Mephestrial has made a template with his triggers a few pages back.
Overall - 17/25 = 3.4/5 = [3/5] - The concept, the idea, the inspiration, all good and well-meant. The execution, the implementation, not so much. I agree with Zpider that this race is handicapped big time, compared to the melee races. To sum up, your ideas looked good on paper (especially Solidarity), but it just doesn't work.
This is my opinion, I'm not a judge, you don't have to give a shit about this post. Good luck

EDIT: This is NOT a giant criticism to your submission. I prefer to point out more bad points, as that's more useful.

Wraithling · Feb 2, 2011

17/25? I'll take that, thank you.

Let me think for awhile about the issues you raised..

(will edit later)

Laserdude · Feb 2, 2011

I've been thinking.
Why are we having the contest anyway? Sure, it is fun and all, but it seems after all like the whole point of the contest is useless, since the point is to get new and better races for people.
I believe this because, as some of you might have noticed, that WC3 is dying. How many games get full at these days? Some DotA games at its top. No one plays new maps anymore, or old maps. It's DotA or nothing. Join any game at all. Then there is a great possibility that it is hosted by a bot and since it will likely never get full, it will never get started.
To prove this, I was joining a game with a "classic" map, or atleast a half-popular one, Castlevania. I sat and chatted with 2-3 dudes who stayed the whole time. After seeing 10 people joining and leaving for 20 minutes, I realized it was not going to work.

So, my point is, basically, that the "reason" of the contest (and such) should be edited, from inproving the game to just having fun.
This is just an opinion, however.

Dionesiist · Feb 2, 2011

Dude.

Skycraft · Feb 2, 2011

Laserdude said:
I've been thinking.
Why are we having the contest anyway? Sure, it is fun and all, but it seems after all like the whole point of the contest is useless, since the point is to get new and better races for people.
I believe this because, as some of you might have noticed, that WC3 is dying. How many games get full at these days? Some DotA games at its top. No one plays new maps anymore, or old maps. It's DotA or nothing. Join any game at all. Then there is a great possibility that it is hosted by a bot and since it will likely never get full, it will never get started.
To prove this, I was joining a game with a "classic" map, or atleast a half-popular one, Castlevania. I sat and chatted with 2-3 dudes who stayed the whole time. After seeing 10 people joining and leaving for 20 minutes, I realized it was not going to work.

So, my point is, basically, that the "reason" of the contest (and such) should be edited, from inproving the game to just having fun.
This is just an opinion, however.

Warcraft 3 isn't dying, it's taking a vacation.

Wazzz · Feb 2, 2011

Dude.

Lich Prince · Feb 2, 2011

...Okaay.

Laserdude · Feb 2, 2011

And it instantly woke people up. Yes, I used the word "dude", if that was what you were all refering to, since I could find no other fitting word.

I still believe that this is true. It is dying, even more now with the release of Starcraft 2.

The_Swamp_Warrior · Feb 2, 2011

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....

Deolrin · Feb 2, 2011

The idea of contests IS fun and competition with other members of the Hive, not 'making new races for other people' or something silly like that. :/

Laserdude · Feb 2, 2011

Debode said:
The idea of contests IS fun and competition with other members of the Hive, not 'making new races for other people' or something silly like that. :/

My point indeed.

I rather meant the fact that people are going to upload their maps.
Sure, that might be fair enough, but improving them first? Surely, the reason for that must be that they want people to use/play it.
And I don't think that is going to happen.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong with having contests or anything like that, since I believe it is fun to compete in making maps and such, I am just saying that thinking people will actually continue playing WC3 is a dead bet.

The World Is Flat · Feb 2, 2011

@wraithling

Your race is far too underpowered early on, the wood mechanisim is a hasle, and everything seems to cost to much, and is underpowered, the farm is 125/25

with an upgrade that gives 2 food and an income that caps at 18 a minute for another insane sum. however, in numbers, your race is OVERPOWERED, the bonuses stacking to insane degrees and making them almost impossible to beat, a pure steamroll race, which has to spam towers and turtle early on to have a chance.

Laserdude · Feb 2, 2011

The World Is Flat said:
@wraithling

Your race is far too underpowered early on, the wood mechanisim is a hasle, and everything seems to cost to much, and is underpowered, the farm is 125/25 with an upgrade that gives 2 food and an income that caps at 18 a minute for another insane sum. however, in numbers, your race is OVERPOWERED, the bonuses stacking to insane degrees and making them almost impossible to beat, a pure steamroll race, which has to spam towers and turtle early on to have a chance.

Isn't that balanced?
From what I just read, it seems to be stable and balanced enough, with its weaknesses and powers.

Direfury · Feb 3, 2011

So, yeah, I'ma let ya'll see the set up I have so far.

Fallen Knight - The Tank
Retribution
Gives a 28-37-52% chance to deal 50-75-150 damage to all nearby enemy ground units.
Holiness
Heal 50-100-200 hitpoints for all nearby friendy units.
Focus
Slows the Fallen Knight's attacks, while imbuing him with extra damage.
Readiness
Increase movement and attack speed, while draining the Fallen Knight's mana completely.
Exalted Caster - The Support
Dark Magic Bolt
Slow an enemy unit's attacks and movement speed by 10-20-30% while doing 10-20-30 damage per second. If the target unit dies while affected by Dark Magic Bolt, an explosion will rip from it's body, harming all nearby units.
Apotheosis
Allows the Exalted caster to deflect ranged attacks and many magical attacks.
Clairvoyance
Increases the Exalted Caster's sight.
Lichdom
Allows the Exalted Caster to become a Lich, disabling Apotheosis and Clairvoyance, while imbuing him with increased movement and attack speed, and three new abilities. Lasts 22 seconds.
- Death Coil - Heal an undead unit upto 200 health, or deal 100 damage to a living enemy. Heals the Lich for 200 health.
- Rending of Souls - Kill a target undead unit, giving 33% of it's hitpoints to the Lich as health and mana.
- Call of Darkness - Create Blight around the Lich.
Blasphemer - The Buffer
Sweep
Deal 40-90-160 damage to an enemy unit.
Burning Heart
Increase the movement speed of a single unit, and all units close to it for a set amount of time.
Grievance Aura
Increases the attack damage of all nearby allied units by 3-5-7.
Heresy
Overloads the Blasphemer with dark energies, allowing him to fight at melee range, with powerful, quick-thrusting kicks.
Heirophant - The DPS
Divine Cage
Stop a unit from moving, attacking or casting spells, while healing them 10-20-30 hitpoints per second.
Sanctity
Teleport a target unit to their highest level town hall.
Fanaticism
Allows the Heirophant to attack repeatedly before recoiling for a few moments.
Rally
Call units from under the Heirophants control to him, providing support in combat.

The first tier is mostly essentials, a number of short to long ranged warriors with abilities learned in the next tiers up.

Longranger
Cull
Steal upto 500 mana from a target enemy unit, saturating the Longranger with energy.
Double Shot
Fire off multiple arrows, harming anyone in the target area.
Arcanist
Imbue
Weaken a target unit slightly, while healing them over time.
Sanctify
Turn a unit into a Healing Ward, regenerating the health of all other units within melee attack range.
Arcane Arrows
Imbue the Arcanists attacks with Arcane power, allowing a second attack to surge forward to the target.
Syndicate Soldier
Deflect
Allows the Syndicate Soldier to block or return ranged attacks and some magic.

The second tier, however, has stronger combatants with useful abilities to allow many diverse compliments for many different tasks.

Noble
Minor Devotion Aura/Lesser Devotion Aura
Increase the armor of nearby friendly units.
Evasion
Gives a chance to evade attacks.
Skullbearer
Regenerate
Regenerate upto 400 mana for a target friendly unit.
Stormsurge
Deal lightning damage to all nearby enemy units. Also causes stunning effects.
Taunt
Force nearby enemy units to attack this unit.
Atramancer
Dedecus
Turn a target enemy into a target for all other nearby units while weakening them considerably.
Obruo
Turn a target unit into a powerful beast from the Twisting Nether.
Dominatus
Force a target enemy unit to attack any unit near him, with increased power.
Netherlord's Hammer
Summon a number of living Lightning Orbs to attack nearby enemies with powerful bolts of Lightning.
Stolen Catapult
Burn
Slow and harm any enemy unit caught in the Catapult's attacks, causing damage over time.

The third tier, however, holds the powerhouses or more extreme combatants on the spectrum, from the ungodly tanks, the Bishop and Trained Bear, to the speedy buffers like the Attack Dog and Wildhammer Emissary.

Bishop
Rend
Take 65 damage to stun a target enemy unit while dealing 65 damage.
Shockwave
Take 65 damage to deal 65 damage to send a wave of force out to deal 65 damage to any enemy unit caught within its grasp.
Cleaving Attack
Deal damage to all nearby enemy units with each attack.
Attack Dog
Fury Swipe
Gives a chance to deal extra damage and stun a target enemy unit while attacking.
Roar
Increase all nearby allied units' capabilities with a stat-boosting roar.
Howl of Terror
Decrease all nearby enemy units' capabilities with a stat-sapping howl.
Trained Bear
Critical Strike
Gives a chance to deal extra damage on attack.
Wildhammer Emissary
Shellshock
Reduce the attack damage and speed of a target enemy unit, crippling their attacks and movements.
Chain of Disenchantment
Disenchant a random number of units, dealing damage to summoned units aswell.

Each unit was given a specific role and abilities to allow them to crossover. The Blasphemer is by far one of the more diverse units in this race, once he can cast Heresy. Considering his massive damage melee attack Sweep and his Attack Range restriction, once he casts Heresy, he can go from being a support fighter and buffer to an exemplary melee DPS, especially since Grievance Aura stacks with all other damage buffs.

Wazzz · Feb 3, 2011

I wasn't using dude because you used it. I was using dude because you're a downer.

GhostThruster · Feb 3, 2011

@Laserdude: SPAMMER!!!

Oh, wait...

@Vermillion Edict: Looks good...alot of T3 units. Care to list some buildings?

Direfury · Feb 3, 2011

I'll just list 'em as they come, I guess.
Encampment/Command Post\Overlord's Hold - Primary Town Hall, requires a quick upgrade to enable tier upgrades.
Barracks - Trains Longrangers, Arcanists and Nobles, with usual upgrades.
Forester's Hold - Lumber return building.
Farmstead - Provides food.
Armory - Provides upgrades.
Tavern - Allows you to buy assorted items, do research and hire strong warriors.
Tower of Domination - Summons heroes, revives dead heroes, holds upgrades and the training option for the Abramancer.
Villager's Hold - Emergency Town Hall, provides [Necessity]Gatherers capable of building walled defences to waylay the severe racial lack of defensive power (Walls, interactive gates)
Beastlord's Villa - Trains and upgrades attack animals.
Spire - Combat tower.
Tower - Scout tower.
Mystic Spire - Summonable item Magic Tower Can give the Spire Seer's Sight (Truesight)
Farm - Summonable item Farmstead, far more effective at producing food.
Herblorist's Hold - Item Purchase building, summoned through Goblin Flatpack from the Tavern.

Many of these buildings have a varying number of openings for units from two to about eight. The Safeguard ability must be researched before this can happen, though.

Again, they're in no real order.

The World Is Flat · Feb 3, 2011

Nice looking vermillion, cant WAIT to check it out.

@ Laserdude

Its not, because a few ghouls and a hero can take somone playing as them early on, but if they manage to turtle or expand, they can be brutal with 12/12 of any solidarity, especially hp armor atk speed can be devestating.

Direfury · Feb 3, 2011

Surprisingly, it's underpowered as of yet. For some reason, though, many of my abilities which need researching to be active, are already available, and I can summon as many heroes as I want. To my knowledge, I've set everything up so that this should not happen.

But anyway, as far as balance goes, my tank fighters, the Bishops, are actually quite weak and easily felled, and I needed a full 100/100 to take on a small Undead raid group filled with air units. On the other side of that, thanks to the massive size of my buildings, despite the Mine hoarding of the other team, I controlled an entire quarter of the map through sheer landmass. The Wall and Gate system functions perfectly to provide a solid defence against ground units.
The only problem I really had, though, were those goddamned air units, which my towers did poorly against.

Will look into a counter.

As far as unique gameplay, the mind-raped Atramancer functions as a Horadric Cube once his Unit Inventory has been activated. For example, a Staff of Preservation and Rod of Necromancy in his inventory SHOULD yield a Staff of Reanimation.
His Netherlord's Hammer ability is extremely useful in large numbers, despite it's mana cost. It will summon a small number of orb-like creatures that remain stationary, dealing fast, steady damage to all nearby enemy units.

Laserdude · Feb 3, 2011

@Wazzz + GhostThruster
I agree with GhostThruster. It is getting off-topic. VM or PM me if you wish anything else.
------------------------------------
Nice, Vermillion. You seem to have done a pretty nice job.

My race is not really coming out, as I have not had the time to work on it. If the contest gets extended, I might be able to complete it, otherwise, I am, too, dropping out.

Wraithling · Feb 3, 2011

Vermillion Edict, your race sounds promising, and I can't wait to try the walls and gates.

Anyway for abilities to become available only after upgrade, on the abilities put Techtree - Check Dependencies to True and Techtree - Requirements to your required upgrade.

To limit the heroes, did you customize the values in Gameplay Constants? Updating Techtree Dependency Equivalents for Altar, Heroes and Tiers 1 to 3 Town Hall should solve on problem. Then next I would suggest you to add a Player Group loop and do Player - Limit training of YourHero to 1 for picked player.

@ Edit: An extension sounds fine to me, if we can have more submissions coming in that is.

The World Is Flat · Feb 3, 2011

Sadly I still probably wont be competing.

Magtheridon96 · Feb 3, 2011

The instructions say we have to give a WiP, so here goes. It's about a troll race with (please don't steal these ideas, and if u do, i will hunt u down :ogre_datass:

lol):
-Cow Catapaults (or u can say Cow-a-paults :ogre_hurrhurr:

)
-Versatile Troll Thiefs with Pillage :ogre_icwydt:

-Normal Headhunters :ogre_rage:

-Bigass Trolls :ogre_haosis:

....

Wraithling · Feb 3, 2011

Well that's a start

But don't edit the original original orc race, because its against the contest rules. Copy and paste your custom units so they are separated from the original ones.

Direfury · Feb 3, 2011

Other than a few minor issues that don't seem to want to go away, my race is for all intents and purposes, complete. In an hour and twenty three minutes, against constant, crippling early game rushes, I managed to utilize the Wall/Gate system and establish one enormous, all encompassing stronghold filled to the brim with Mystic Towers and Atramancers. Considering their heavy cost and the time in which it takes to actually acquire them, they are possibly the most incredible units in the melee map, despite the glitches.

With an army of fully enhanced Atramancers, led by the Blasphemer, I was able to steamroll the entire other half the map, which was fully controlled by the other team, and their damned frost wyrms. As I said before, unless you mass Atramancers, or underestimate Mystic Towers, you'll have a tough time.

As far as the Heirophant goes, his Rally ability was invaluable during the steamroll crusade, calling in freshly trained troops during the assault, especially when he called in wave after wave of Longrangers.

EDIT:
The Dependency thing should work, thanks.

Oh, and I'll probably be checking out other strategies, utilizing the Widow Ring and other such items sold by the Tavern, like the Battlepack.

The World Is Flat · Feb 3, 2011

Oh and Wraith, do allied units with solidarity assist your units?

Also, does anyone want to test the custom races with me in some multiplayer games when they are done?

Chizume · Feb 4, 2011

Damnit. I really need to make a schedule or something next time. I cannot finish my altered race before the deadline. I'm out.

Lich Prince · Feb 4, 2011

Done here.

I'm listing the credits and making the post presentation as my race gets tested.

Narogog · Feb 4, 2011

this is my units and heroes so far.

Captain of the Guard
Protection - Switches places with a target unit, dealing 20/30/40 damage in 340/390/440 AoE
Battle Training - gives a 20/35/45% chance to block 20/35/50 damage
Bash - gives a 20/30/40% chance to deal 25 extra damage and stun for 2 seconds
Persuasion - Takes control of a unit for 15 seconds then returns it to its owner.
Enchantress
Stone Curse - turns a unit below level 3/4/5 into a rock permanently, killing the unit.
Silence - stops units from casting spells in a target area for 16/20/24 seconds.
Create Items - Creates 1/2/3 different items, removes the old items each cast and the items are worth nothing.
Enchant - Enchants things, turning trees/corpses/Rocks into a Wood/Flesh/Rock Construct, the more corpses, etc the stronger the summoned unit is.
Master Conjurer
Elemental Blast - sends a blast of the four elements, Fire,Water,Air, and earth which, Burn, Slow, Stun and reduce armor of a target unit.
Discipline increases Mana Regen of the caster by a substantial bit
Summon Scorpions - summons 3/7/12 very weak scorpions for the caster.
Firestorm - summons a Swirling cloud of fire which causes massive destruction below.
Summoner
Return to the Void - sends a corpse to the void giving the caster 50/65/85 Mana and doing 0/40/40 damage in AoE around the Corpse
Corruption - Spreads corruption to all units in a target area giving allied units 100/110/90 % damage bonus with -12/-10/-5 armor bonus to the units. gives enemy units 5/7/9 damage per second for 20 seconds.
Banish - Turns a non-mechanical unit ether slows movement speed by 50% with a 4/5/6 duration-Hero and a 12/15/18 duration-Normal costs 75/60/50.
Summoning Ritual - Creates a gateway at the target point, summons in hordes of neutral hostile demonic creatures. the Portal grows larger over time summoning in larger demons. {not quite finished}

I don't have tiers instead I have 5 different towers, the ones shown below plus the tower of Mastery which requires any to of the towers. each of the Towers will have a custom ability, for example the tower of enchantment has Dirt to Gold, which adds more gold to all of the goldmines on the map.

Conjurer
A durable spell caster, welcome back to wc1, built at the Tower of The Elements, and Mage Towers
Elemental Blast basic spell, has a special upgrade, making it deal more damage.
Fire ball, 2nd level spell, deals 60 damage in a line, has 800 range
Conjure Water elemental, 3rd level, conjures a half power water elemental.
Mana Shield, 4th level protects the Conjure with his Mana from 90% of all damage.
Siege Mage
A channeling unit, good against buildings
Blizzard, basic spell
Rain of Fire, 2nd level spell
Quake, a tiny earthquake
Whirlwind, like tornado but smaller

Mage
a mystic magic user and high damager [with spells]
Void walk, basic spell, turns him into a Void Scout
Burst of energy, 2nd level spell deals extra damage if the unit is at full mana
not finished
Void Scout
a scout/Assassin. it is the mages void form
Void walk, basic spell makes the void scout become a mage again
Planar Touch, Attack/spell, is the void scouts attack,
Planar Jump, 2nt level spell. a blink like spell
Void Bolt, 3rd level spell. anti hero high damage spell.
Void Merge, 4th level spell, permanent invisibility
Nether Drake
Powerful Flying unit. built at Nether Gates.
Nether Gate
a building that acts as a one way portal to a summoned gate.

Enchanter
a spell caster/buffer.
Enchant, basic spell, slightly improves armor, Damage and Health regen of target Friendly unit.
Enchant armor, 2nd level ability, a buff that improves the armor of nearby friendlies.
Enchant Weapons 2nd level ability, improves nearby friendly weapons
Polymorph, 3rd level spell, changes target unit into a sheep
Silence, 4th level spell, Silences all spell casters in target area
Arcane Ship
a flying transport, has no mana regen.
can replenish units mana and cast cloud
War Golem
a Heavy Melee Unit that is Spell immune, not built at the tower of enchantment.

Illusionist
not yet complete
Guardsmen
a Medium Melee unit can learn Shield Battle training.

Mud Golem
worker, with a later upgrade can become a decent melee unit.
Adept
basic Builder, this unit builds most of the buildings.

View attachment KirinTor - Techtree #4.w3x

GhostThruster · Feb 5, 2011

You should've attached it to your post. That, and the download link didn't work for me.

Direfury · Feb 5, 2011

Alright, I've expanded on the "Refugee" idea.

The warriors of Alterac, in their desperation, have turned to those cast out of their lands. Examples:
Stolen Catapults - 'Liberated' Horde siege weaponry.
Arcanists - Rogue Stromgarde magi.
Longranger - Renegade of the Alliance.
Atramancer - Exiled mortal wanderer of the Twisting Nether, returned from his journey.
Wildhammer Emissary - Pretty much here for a drink and fight.
Ex-Bishop - Greedy, abusive former Paladin.

GhostThruster · Feb 5, 2011

Ex-Bishop doesn't fit. What about 'Fallen Paladin', or 'Dark Paladin'?

Btw, what's an Atramancer?

Direfury · Feb 5, 2011

Darkmancer. Basically a human who ran around the Twisting Nether.

He basically mumbles and such, all but his Netherlord's Hammer ability has a Latin name.

67chrome · Feb 5, 2011

A lot of your races are sounding pretty cool

@ Vermillion Edict: The small armor type is found on basically every air unit in WC3, and takes double damage from piercing attacks. More piercing damage or web are generally good air counters

@ The World Is Flat: play-testing the races actually seems like a pretty cool idea, I'd be down for that.

The World Is Flat · Feb 5, 2011

My view aswell.

Its best to test games in human games.

Techtree Contest #4 - Improved Melee Race

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