Why so much dota hatred?

[atropos007]

my friend sent me this image, he asked if I can post it here

http://www.mFoto.pl/uploads/1369/vex_02750.jpg

 

[HappyTauren]

omg h4x it was vexorian :O

 

[VGsatomi]

I haven't read the 11 pages of posts prior to this, so I appologize if I'm touching up on points that have already been discussed to death, but here's my take on why I hate dota;

First and formost is balancing. I remember my first few tries at the game, when some speedy cloaked hero would pop out of nowhere, killl me in 2 quick hits even though i was higher level and and roughly the same items, and recloak and run away, only to do it to other players again and again. I would hit that hero with my ultimate spell only to have it do maybe 10% damage while its melee attacks were strong enough to kill anyone in a second, its speed prevented anyone from chasing it, and it was stealth, making itn nearly impossible to fend off with anoything other then the same class. Another hero had some "hero killing totem" that would AoE kill entire clusters of heroes, while other heroes have hard time even denting the damage of others. Ovbiously some major lack of proper balancing.

Second, it braught out the worst in the community. Playing dota matches gives players an idea of just how immature members the community can be, to both their oppponents and (most often) their teammates. No other map ever sparked such rude behaior and delusions of grandure in players thinking their "skill" wins matches when really its just the hero class they chose. You need thick skin to play. The map almost was tailor morde for the "i can say whatever i want because im hiding behind a screen name" crowd that has been the scourge of the internet since it's birth.

Third, its poor quality, and encouraged more poor quality. I gave director's choice to many AoS maps that were far superior to dota in every possible way, but none of them ever really got off the ground. I always wondered how such a poorly terrained, poorly balanced and poorly packaged map could become so popular while other maps with really effort put into them would rarely see the light of b.net. My conclusion was pretty much wrapped up on reason #2. It pains me to see realy quality work not be discovered just so people can go on thiking they can "pwn" people while exploiting a purposfully imbalanced map. The map also encouraged more poor quality as countless rips were made of the map. If the map archives on search and hive were not moderated, a massive chunk of them would have been reserved for dota rips alone.

So in short, the map is too popular, as it will not allow anything else, such as higher quality maps, to take its place and for the wrong reasons, mainly that being it caters too the more immature/udesirable crowd in internet gaming.
-VGsatomi

 

[Rui]

Yes, one thing is certain; there is no balance in heroes late game. I would really like to see a Keeper of the Light (Ezalor) killing a Bone Fletcher (Clinkz) late game.

 

[atropos007]

rather no chance, Ezalor is more of a support pusher than a hero killer, just because one hero can 1v1 other easy doesn't mean he's imbalanced. In 5v5 ezalor is more useful because of his spells. It's like in melee, archmage vs blademaster, if blademaster is so imbalanced and archmage is so weak, why people take farseer and archmage in most matchups?

lol->http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/40740008/

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

my friend sent me this image, he asked if I can post it here

http://www.mFoto.pl/uploads/1369/vex_02750.jpg

*faints*

 

[MaD_cOw_DiSeAsE]

Skill in what?

Just curious in what is skill to you =o.

Knowing how to play your hero, what spells and when, what items to get, when to attack or retreat, and what makes skill in every other game pretty much

I remember my first few tries at the game, when some speedy cloaked hero would pop out of nowhere, killl me in 2 quick hits even though i was higher level and and roughly the same items, and recloak and run away, only to do it to other players again and again. I would hit that hero with my ultimate spell only to have it do maybe 10% damage while its melee attacks were strong enough to kill anyone in a second, its speed prevented anyone from chasing it, and it was stealth, making itn nearly impossible to fend off with anoything other then the same class.
-VGsatomi

One thing is that stealth heroes are very good at picking off heroes in 1v1s, there are more kinda of heroes too, like SUPPORT heroes which are better in groups that aren't good at killing assassins, that's like a doctor thinking they can beat off an assassin, and if you have noobs who feed the stealth hero in beginning by chasing far or just being idiots then they get really buff, stealth heroes can be very bad if they don't get any kills in the beginning which they shouldn't because casters are good int he beginning which brings me to my next point: -em is basically -imbalanced, -em kills all int heroes and makes all those stealth ones better because int heroes dominate early game but aren't so great late game and with -em there really isn't much of an early game, thats why -em sucks and I never play it. Also if you hate people using "rigged" heroes play -ar or even more fun -dmar so they get a new hero when they die.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

You do understand that as a mapmaking community, THW is generally against DotA? It's a very negative force in relation to new maps, effectively nobody is willing to try anything else.

Knowing how to play your hero, what spells and when, what items to get, when to attack or retreat, and what makes skill in every other game pretty much

I suppose randoming a imbalanced hero your first game counts as skill then? At school, my friend was talking about how he randomed Thor (the MK, right?) in something like his second or third game (single digits anyways), and everybody was immediately irritated about him picking a "noob hero". He was pretty "good" with Thor, so does that mean he's an AoS prodigy? No, it means he randomed an imbalanced hero. Not to mention that any hero being thoroughly recognized as a "noob hero" immediately means there is a severe imbalance.

One thing is that stealth heroes are very good at picking off heroes in 1v1s, there are more kinda of heroes too, like SUPPORT heroes which are better in groups that aren't good at killing assassins, that's like a doctor thinking they can beat off an assassin, and if you have noobs who feed the stealth hero in beginning by chasing far or just being idiots then they get really buff, stealth heroes can be very bad if they don't get any kills in the beginning which they shouldn't because casters are good int he beginning which brings me to my next point: -em is basically -imbalanced, -em kills all int heroes and makes all those stealth ones better because int heroes dominate early game but aren't so great late game and with -em there really isn't much of an early game, thats why -em sucks and I never play it. Also if you hate people using "rigged" heroes play -ar or even more fun -dmar so they get a new hero when they die.

Problems with DotA stealth heroes that have been made apparent to me in this thread:

• Stealth heroes aren't supposed to be able to 1v1 anybody, with the possible exception of lower-level casters and rangers. Take a look at the meaning of the word "stealth"; charging up to somebody and killing them is very far from my idea of stealth
• Stealth heroes' actual purposes are to be able to run around and catch heroes with their pants down, maybe in-between potions or by tag-teaming with someone else.
• If a stealth hero is ever caught trying to be stealthy, it should mean something along the lines of instant death for that stealth hero, unless it's a lone support hero that catches it.
• Stealth heroes are meant to kill with their abilities, and the player's ability to stealth up to a hero and use all of those abilities at once; not their ubar leet base damage.
• VG was a higher level than the stealth hero. Obviously, VG was eating more than the stealth hero was, and it really makes no sense that a lower-level hero can run up and kill a higher-level hero in two or three hits. Also, stealth heroes should never win fights unless they come into them late, or the fight is against lower-level heroes.

 

[atropos007]

there is no Thor, there is zeus , maybe your friends are weak and can't counter him, because for quite low price you can buy item that grants 30% spell resistance, which pretty much counters zeus. Also his ulti deals 210/330/430 damage to all heroes on map. They must have been stupid to run around with low hp.

VG was a higher level than the stealth hero. Obviously, VG was eating more than the stealth hero was, and it really makes no sense that a lower-level hero can run up and kill a higher-level hero in two or three hits. Also, stealth heroes should never win fights unless they come into them late, or the fight is against lower-level heroes.

almost never hero can kill you in few hits, especially higher level, maybe he had got better items, in leagues no one plays the stealth heroes because:

- they have low hp
- they are melee, and as such suck at farming
- are only powerful midgame
- leaving your lane to kill someone makes you lose a lot of gold and xp

also, 1v1 situations are rather rare in dota

 

[Teh_Ephy]

there is no Thor, there is zeus , maybe your friends are weak and can't counter him, because for quite low price you can buy item that grants 30% spell resistance, which pretty much counters zeus. Also his ulti deals 210/330/430 damage to all heroes on map. They must have been stupid to run around with low hp.

It was on BNet, actually. A game full of people that play DotA on their own, not with friends. My friend was only talking about it because we were somehow discussing DotA (most likely how it sucked, but I'm the only one of my friends that doesn't join DotA games). Also, thanks for pointing that out, Thor is Land of Legends's MK hero. Lol...

 

[atropos007]

Thor is a god in Nordic mythology, as Zeus is in Greek one. Public games on battlenet aren't a good place to check whether something is good or bad.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Thor is a god in Nordic mythology, as Zeus is in Greek one.

I'm aware of that, but they're both stuck on MK heroes in AoSs.

Public games on battlenet aren't a good place to check whether something is good or bad.

Eh, he just joined it because it was there I guess. It was one of his first few games, and he said he did really good.

 

[Ratherion]

So.. people.

I have managed to keep on good terms with dota, supprisingly, I find that if you play it with friends-only on a private game it's great, we all pick well balanced heroes and we are all of almost equal skill, so we have good, creative and fun, friendly games.

On BATTLENET however, it SUCKS OBTRUSIVE BALLS.
Why?
1. !!!Bad community!!!
2. 90% of ther heroes [the ones we don't use] are incredibly imbalenced.
3. NOT AT ALL new-player friendly, not like a very complex game that people just need a few plays to learn, but in the way that people take advantage of new players by eating their asses every time they make a mistake, the teammates start to get pissed at the nub and start yelling about farming and so on and so on, Circle of Hate =/= productive
3. BAD COMMUNTIY
4. Spells are CONSTANTLY Ripped into other games, which annoys the hell out of me.
5. is considered "The God Map", Everything that is even in the slightest like dota, (say... ZOMG ITEM COMBOS), I get a constant face-full of people shouting "You n00b! Copy DoTa Hacker! n00b is'nt good enough to make his own ideas!" - Did I mention the bad community?
6. No one seems to REALISE that it IS a ripped map, and that it should not be supported as such. I mean Wintermaul got it's own ripps, but SMART people saw right through them and played the origional or the INVENTIVE AND CREATIVE version called Wintermaul Wars that someone intelligently created.
7. Bad community?

I could go on and on... but that is the most of it.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

So.. people.

I have managed to keep on good terms with dota, supprisingly, I find that if you play it with friends-only on a private game it's great, we all pick well balanced heroes and we are all of almost equal skill, so we have good, creative and fun, friendly games.

On BATTLENET however, it SUCKS OBTRUSIVE BALLS.
Why?
1. !!!Bad community!!!
2. 90% of ther heroes [the ones we don't use] are incredibly imbalenced.
3. NOT AT ALL new-player friendly, not like a very complex game that people just need a few plays to learn, but in the way that people take advantage of new players by eating their asses every time they make a mistake, the teammates start to get pissed at the nub and start yelling about farming and so on and so on, Circle of Hate =/= productive
3. BAD COMMUNTIY
4. Spells are CONSTANTLY Ripped into other games, which annoys the hell out of me.
5. is considered "The God Map", Everything that is even in the slightest like dota, (say... ZOMG ITEM COMBOS), I get a constant face-full of people shouting "You n00b! Copy DoTa Hacker! n00b is'nt good enough to make his own ideas!" - Did I mention the bad community?
6. No one seems to REALISE that it IS a ripped map, and that it should not be supported as such. I mean Wintermaul got it's own ripps, but SMART people saw right through them and played the origional or the INVENTIVE AND CREATIVE version called Wintermaul Wars that someone intelligently created.
7. Bad community?

I could go on and on... but that is the most of it.

You missed "z0mg B4d c0mmun17y lolz0rx!!!eleven!1oneone!!oneone211". Honestly, just because I can read entire sentences in 13375p34k-for-second-grade-girls doesn't mean I like to.

 

[Ratherion]

I KNOW, I almost want to get Kixer to impliment his cuss-blocker into Ascendancy, but morph it a bit so it also changes 1337-speak into proper english.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

I KNOW, I almost want to get Kixer to impliment his cuss-blocker into Ascendancy, but morph it a bit so it also changes 1337-speak into proper english.

That would be a huge wordfilter... 13375p34k was originally created specifically to get around wordfilters. Get the garden variety for-second-grade-girls 1337, anything else is just hurting your brain.

 

[MaD_cOw_DiSeAsE]

Okay I'm done with this thread, arguing is always pointless because no one will ever change their mind, DotA does kill other games which sucks, but it is the most balanced game that I've ever played. Everyone who hates it says its imbalanced but everyone who loves it says its balanced so I don't know what that means but anyway uhh I don't know where I was going with this.

 

[noctune]

Everyone who hates it says its imbalanced but everyone who loves it says its balanced so I don't know what that means but anyway uhh I don't know where I was going with this.

That's because dota easily gets imbalanced if your whole team is not in harmony. Generally, on public games, people don't give a shit about team work and some silly weak hero killer always own the battlefield.

On higher level dotas, things are really well balanced. And that's what IceFrog really cares about. Dota will always be imba on publics

 

[Ratherion]

Buts thats just NOT COOL. I mean the ENTIRE POINT of warcraft 3 modding is to bring it to the public, not to restrain it to a select few players who like to do tournaments....

 

[Teh_Ephy]

That's because dota easily gets imbalanced if your whole team is not in harmony. Generally, on public games, people don't give a shit about team work and some silly weak hero killer always own the battlefield.

Does this mean that DotA is imba when every little thing doesn't go right? I'd kind of call that imba anyways. But... I'm assuming that it means if some idiot is out doing his own thing as opposed to working with the team it throws the balance off against people that work together. How... very newbie-unfriendly.

On higher level dotas, things are really well balanced. And that's what IceFrog really cares about. Dota will always be imba on publics

So then people play solely to win, and not have a good time winning. Another reason DotA sucks; games are supposed to be fun. When I play LoL, if I die in a really cool way, like in a brawl that killed four or five people after myself, then I say something like "Whoa, that was awesome", or "lol, epic"; as opposed to something like "omfg that was fucking retarded, why didn't you guys get away" or random combinations of cusses and 1337 and how we should be owning but it's <insert name here>'s fault.

Buts thats just NOT COOL. I mean the ENTIRE POINT of warcraft 3 modding is to bring it to the public, not to restrain it to a select few players who like to do tournaments....

QFT.

 

[Ratherion]

Curse my lack of internet acronym skill.... I had to Google that...

But yes Ephy, I agree with you totally.

 

[Redeemer59]

So, I ran into another two DotA-Noobs today while playing Island Defense...

They both kept calling me a noob because I hate DotA. "dota is balance because it needs skill that u dont have" And (get this), "u need2 pick the right heros"

HAahahahhahahahahaha... A balanced game shouldnt require ANYONE to pick the right heroes. They kept going on and on and on and on about how noob I was because I hated the game, how I should go kill myself because I'm so stupid, and how "dota is the most balance game on battlenet".

If I ever meet someone who claims DotA is the best game on battle.net IRL, they will cease to exist. That is all.

 

[atropos007]

of course it requires you to pick right heroes... in Starcraft, the BALANCED game, you can't just mass zerglings, or opponent will counter you with firebats and you lose. Picking right heroes = countering enemy heroes.

actually, you shouldn't care about it in pubs because every hero has potential in there

 

[Ratherion]

There is a point to that.

But the idea of Dota is not to pick the Hero that would perfectly counter all the other heroes other wise the person who picked last would always win. The heroes have to be balanced no matter who their teammates are or who they are facing.

 

[HappyTauren]

DOTA SUX ANYWAY
IT IS OUT OF TODAY's STANDARDS

*offtopic*
i broke the color tags rule

 

[Ratherion]

True... but uh... I think the point of this is to discover WHY DotA Sucks?

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

True... but uh... I think the point of this is to discover WHY DotA Sucks?

we've established that 52 pages ago (hyperbole alert, n00bs)
now we're just going over it again and again and again...

 

[HappyTauren]

re-read VG's post -.-

 

[Ratherion]

Well then... can we all just... er..

THW = Modders
Modders know how hard it is to make a good map... so when theirs gets shot down for not being "as good as DotA", it sucks... so....
Like at least 80% of THW has a thing against DotA, can we just.. call this thread... pointless from now on?

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

It was pointless 92 years ago (hyperbole). We just never noticed until the 12th damn page.

Stolen material, unbalanced, ppl are saying it over and over again. There's not even a person arguing against it.

 

[noctune]

Not anymore.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

we've established that 52 pages ago (hyperbole alert, n00bs)

It was pointless 92 years ago (hyperbole). We just never noticed until the 12th damn page.

If you're going to hyperbole on the internet, the only acceptable terms for "in the past" are "{(at least) 100/over nine thousaaaaandd} years ago" and "last Thursday".

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

If you're going to hyperbole on the internet, the only acceptable terms for "in the past" are "{(at least) 100/over nine thousaaaaandd} years ago" and "last Thursday".

Pfft. Internet memes. Last Thursdayism > Nine Thousand.

 

[Redeemer59]

of course it requires you to pick right heroes... in Starcraft, the BALANCED game, you can't just mass zerglings, or opponent will counter you with firebats and you lose. Picking right heroes = countering enemy heroes.

actually, you shouldn't care about it in pubs because every hero has potential in there

By that, I meant that there are only a few out of the 80-something heroes in DotA that actually work well. In a balanced game, all heroes have equal potential, not a select few. If only a couple fight worth a damn, why are the other 70 in the game? So that they can claim they have 88 heroes? Pretty much.

In a balanced game, one can pick any hero and be effective, instead of picking one hero out of a dozen unless you want to be wtfganked by ANY of the other balanced heroes.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Let me give an example. In Land of Legends, it is pretty hard to not pick a hero that totally pwnx0rxs with a particular style of play. Of course, there exist many counter-strategies. And then, there exist many counters to the counter-strategies, and then yet more counters to those. Considering how easy most of those counter strategies are to execute (except for the spell shield, they're slightly hard to locate for new players) Land of Legends is fantastically balanced, as it keeps players on their toes and the balance of power shifts easily.

 

[Kaitech[SanD]]

Why so much DotA hatred, well, I asked myself and I get a bombardment of words in my head.
1. People have tournaments for money! Think about it, if people did this, or started with the "Oh, I'll give you a 1 on 1 and the winner gets 100 bucks!" Then the other replies "Yeah ok, see if I don't **** you up, Im the best player in the world! muahahaha!"

2. You wake up in the morning, can't sleep because you got woken up too a massive crap, then you trudge back too bed and try too sleep, then can't, so you trudge downstairs, or wherever your PC may be, and then go decide you'll play Warcraft 3! So you turn on your PC, load up Warcraft 3, logon, with a slow tap tap tap on the keyboard, then you click on Custom Game, so the list is spammed with "Dota, Dota, Dota JOIN FAST, Dota DL ONLY (they usually turn out to be people that can't host), Dota NO NUBZZZ!!1!, ALLSTARS PRO NLY1one11!, DOTA NOOBZZ NLY!11 (that is usually a pro vs 5 newbs) and then last right at the bottom you see ..., you think this is your chance too acctually play some real game, and so click on it and the map is DotA Allstars 6.5. So you slam your mouse on his mat, then exclaim "**** YOU MAKER OF DOTA!!" and then go play some free internet games on crazy monkey games ^_^

 

[Redeemer59]

What I mean by my arguement is, yes, there needs to be at least a little rock-paper-scizzors type stuff. However, all heroes should be on the same basic level with strengths and weaknesses that balance eachother out, but also remain balanced with the other heroes. If a select group of heroes are better than all other heroes, then that sucks so much ass it isn't funny. Why have the others at all, if there are a bunch of elite uber haxxor heroes which own all of the others?

Like I said, so they can say they have 88 heroes.

 

[NearbyHermit]

Lol i think i should be the dota hater.
Ive played dota v0.1 LoL with idiotic optimizations back then the game was crap.Poor Eul and Kaye-Dota maniacs

 

[atropos007]

By that, I meant that there are only a few out of the 80-something heroes in DotA that actually work well. In a balanced game, all heroes have equal potential, not a select few. If only a couple fight worth a damn, why are the other 70 in the game? So that they can claim they have 88 heroes? Pretty much.

In a balanced game, one can pick any hero and be effective, instead of picking one hero out of a dozen unless you want to be wtfganked by ANY of the other balanced heroes.

nahh it just works like in online rpgs. You pick a healer class. You are suddenly attacked by warrior/rogue/whatever, he hits you few times and you die. Now you would say that warriors are imba.

You call your friends, 2 warriors to escort you. Your party consisting of 2 warriors and you healer meets 3 other warriors. They can't hurt any of your friends, because you heal them of all damage. Now they would say HEALERS are imba.

outcome: Some heroes that you find useless, have their own use with good team combos, some heroes are extreme good 1v1ers, but in team match they are very fragile etc.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

nahh it just works like in online rpgs. You pick a healer class. You are suddenly attacked by warrior/rogue/whatever, he hits you few times and you die. Now you would say that warriors are imba.

You call your friends, 2 warriors to escort you. Your party consisting of 2 warriors and you healer meets 3 other warriors. They can't hurt any of your friends, because you heal them of all damage. Now they would say HEALERS are imba.

outcome: Some heroes that you find useless, have their own use with good team combos, some heroes are extreme good 1v1ers, but in team match they are very fragile etc.

Flawed logic! Do I get to burn it to cinders? Pleeeaaase?

Your logic is flawed in that you are creating a fallacy through equivocation. Fighting in an (M)MORPG and fighting in an AoS on WC3 in that in MORPGs, each class is specifically designed for one purpose, and is absolutely useless for everything else. For healers, that purpose is keeping the party from dying, and "everything else" is taking damage. Also, in an MMO, it's possible for several players to have exactly the same heroes, with exactly the same abilities. In an AoS, each hero is unique, and while designed for a specific purpose, no other hero can fulfill that hero's role the same way that hero can. Any extreme difference in how similar heroes fulfill that role is known as an imbalance. Not to mention that most MORPGs are entirely about party coordination, whereas in an AoS it's highly unlikely to assemble a group of players that can play perfectly off of each other.

 

[atropos007]

BS. There are heroes in dota for example Treant Protector. most of the people find him worst hero, because he has 2 useful spells (before you ask the question, the other 2 spells are useful as well but very situational), first one is invisibility when near trees, second one is AoE Entangling roots, which lasts 5 seconds and deals around 400 damage on lvl 3. 400 damage of course isn't enough to kill a hero, so people say this hero sucks b/c he deals damage and has to run. But, in 4v4 or 5v5 scenario, that 5 seconds of entangle are precious, because they allow to heavily damage or kill few enemies.

Heroes have different abilities, but they aren't gamebreaking in any way, they add variety of strategies. For example, you may pick hero with Frost Arrows to slow the enemy, or you can pick a hero with Searing Arrows to damage the enemy, but allowing him to run away.

And AoSes are all about team coordination.

Actually, there is a system in DotA, that attacking an enemy hero draws all his creeps to attack you. This makes the game more interesting, because you don't just run around right-clicking enemy heroes and creeps do nothing but fight themselves again.

stop arguing, go play higher level dota

gg

 

[Ratherion]

You gave us ONE balanced hero...

1 =/= 88

Maybe a bit more explination?

 

[atropos007]

You gave us ONE balanced hero...

1 =/= 88

Maybe a bit more explination?

lets put it another way:

you bring up some "imbalanced" hero, and I point out his flaws

 

[Ratherion]

lets put it another way:

you bring up some "imbalanced" hero, and I point out his flaws

I salute your conversational skills.

 

[atropos007]

I salute your conversational skills.

your join date is Mar 2007 so shut up plz

 

[Ratherion]

If you continue to judge people by the quantity of their time spent instead of the quality of their time spent... that is saddening.

-OnTopic-

Now then, you asked for an imbalanced hero.

Phantom Lancer.

 

[atropos007]

ok

Strengths:

- very good 1v1 hero, with slow and escape mechanism (windwalk)
- illusions mislead the enemies
- with proper items he can burn 24 mana per hit (stacking with illusions) making him a good anti-caster

now weaknesses:

first of all, he's a melee hero. If you put him versus a good ranged hero, especially INT one, he will be nuked to the oblivion every time you come close for lasthit on creeps. That makes you underleveled, but more importantly "underitemed". He relies very much on farming his items to be effective from lvl 16+. He doesn't have much hp either, just put some sentry wards / buy gems and focus him or nuke him with some strong spells. Through the whole game he suffers very much from AoE spells, because they kill all his illusions.

Natural counter to Phantom Lancer - Obsidian Destroyer. Obsidian's orb deals +400 damage to summons/illusions. Obsidian's ulti deals 10x(obs' INT - lancer's INT) on big AoE. Late game it's almost a one hit kill vs STR and AGI heroes, such as phantom lancer.

another weakness is that he is really weak early game, he can't kill anyone. He is most powerful around 12 level and in laaaate game, when he has most of necessary items for him.

 

[Ratherion]

I realise this, I have played this hero EXTENSIVLEY.

Then tell me, how is it that I was able to take out an Obsidian, a Luna and a Pudge when they where all level 18 and I was lvl 22?

3v1

I had Manta Style and Cranium basher.

Please do tell

ONE of my illusions can take out an ENTIRE creep wave, and 3 can take on a hero of the same level and win.

 

[atropos007]

cranium basher? rofl

well, my guess is that they were noobs. Maybe pudge wouldn't take you on, but Luna and Obsidian should be pwning you. also they did let you farm because it was a pub game and it was -em probably, so you can pwn with every hero there (way more gold)

 

[Ratherion]

Godlike-level game, no noobs, no farming either, I just started owning heros at lvl 6