[Minigame] Turn Based Battle

[Solu9]

Tregoban Grand Master

Arena matches are one of the Tregoban System's finest traditions.
Teams from all over the galaxy challenge each other to fight for honor and glory in the many arenas spread out on the system's planets.
Everyone is allowed to challenge as long as the official rules are upheld.
The teams that are participating in these matches are a mixed flock ranging from high tech space marines from Helis 12 to jungle dwelling tribes of Kal'Kar.
A year long tournament runs side by side with challenges. Only the best of the best teams fight in the tournament to battle for the ultimate prize and title; Tregoban Grand Master.

Introduction

Idea and process behind the map:
After I created a turn based combat system that I was satisfied with, I had difficulty deciding what I wanted to use it for.
Initially I wanted to create a large campaign which would feature the system. But after some brainstorming and a lot of test maps it became apparent that I probably wouldn't be able to complete such a humongous task alone. However I still wanted to use the turn based combat system for something.
A minimap with Final Fantasy like fights was an idea I had in my for a long time, and I thought I would settle on that idea.
After yet another long brainstorming and inspiration gathering I changed my mind again. The Final Fantasy approach, while appealing, I could not figure out how I would make such a minimap interesting in the long run.
So I changed the game into a card/chess-sorta-map instead and I have continually liked the idea while making the map.
Now the first version of the map is complete.
While I still have many ideas I want to implement I wanted to release the map before getting too stuck with such implementations and eventually stop the project. By doing this I feel a lot more compelled to continue updating the map with features, items and teams.

The game:
As mentioned, this map has its roots in classic card games. The chess analogy is pretty much just because there are units involved.
I wanted to use the turn based combat to enhance well thought strategic play instead of the usual hack 'n' slash or ARPG maps (not saying they are bad, just that I wanted to create something different).
The card game aspect of the game lies in the hidden player inventory. It works as if the player has cards on his hands that the opponent can't see. Furthermore, the receival of a new item each turn is to resemble a card being picked from an undrawn stack of cards.
The energy requirements (see below) of using items, placing units on the playing field and using units' abilities holds the strategic value of the map. That, and figuring out when and why certain items are good or bad to play, as well as which units counters which.

Finally, I hope you enjoy this map!

Gameplay

Setting up the game:
Player 1 start the game with altering the game settings. This includes: Number of wins needed to determine the victor,
Hereafter both players are granted control over a Team Console where teams can be picked.
Once both players has picked a team the match will begin.

Game settings:
View attachment 135842

Playing the game:
A coin flip determines who will begin the match.
From here the players takes turn to summon units onto the playing field, using items and order their units to act.

Avatars are the commander of a team.
These Avatars can summon in additional units and becomes invulnerable as long as there are units to protect them. Avatars are also the only units who can use items, and are the ones who finishes a players turn.
When one player ends his turn, the other player gains control of his Avatar and an item is rolled and placed in this player's inventory.
Items comes with a wide variety of uses, from increasing units' attributes, to buffing and debuffing, to alternating the gameplay.
Each player has an inventory which the opponent cannot see. These inventories can hold up to a maximum of 9 items. If a player's inventory is full when it is his turn, all items in the inventory will be re-rolled. This means that all 9 items will be replaced with a new item from the item list.

Every unit, unit abilities, and most items comes with an energy cost, furthermore units also has an energy consumption of 1 every turn to have in play. This will be deducted from a player's overall energy in the beginning of his turn.
A player can gain more energy by using Energy Crystals. Each Energy Crystal owned by a player increases overall energy by 1. A maximum of 10 Energy Crystals per player can be in play.

Here is a visual overlook of the basic stuff:
View attachment 135819

Teams

Renshaw Castle

Dark Swamp Tribe

Thunderstrike Marines

Soon to come

Army composition:

Unit	HP	Dmg	Def %	Ability
Swordman	36	10	10	Overpower
Ramer	45	14	25	Ram
Templar	52	15	20	Heal
Wizard	30	15	5	Fireball
Lancer	60	30	35	Pierce

Army composition:

Unit	HP	Dmg	Def %	Ability
Cannibal	25	7	0	Cannibalism
Witch Doctor	32	10	5	Curse
Evil Spirit	40	14	30	Haunt
Ambusher	48	20	10	Hidden Strike
Tribe Champion	62	35	35	Regeneration

Army composition:

Unit	HP	Dmg	Def %	Ability
Storm Bolter Marine	30	10	15	Burst Fire
Plasma Rifle Marine	40	12	15	Overheat
Missile Launcher Marine	50	18	20	EMP
Needle Sniper Rifle Marine	45	25	10	Snipe
Dreadnought	65	32	40	Shred

Army composition:

Unit	HP	Dmg	Def %	Ability
Soon to come	0	0	0	----------
Soon to come	0	0	0	----------
Soon to come	0	0	0	----------
Soon to come	0	0	0	----------
Soon to come	0	0	0	----------

Credits

Models

Icons

Skins

Models:
-Burning_Dragoon5 (Storm Bolter Marine)
-Burning_Dragoon5 (Plasma Rifle Marine)
-Burning_Dragoon5 (Missile Launcher Marine)
-Burning_Dragoon5 (Needle Sniper Rifle Marine)
-t-rav2010 (Ambusher)
--Grendel (Tribe Champion)
-Pyramidhe@d (Dreadnought)
-Callahan (Swordman)
-Callahan (Ramer)
-Callahan (Templar)
-Callahan (Lancer)
-???? (Devil's Dice Unit)
-Kuhneghetz (Various gems)
-Mc ! (Various item models)

Icons:
-takakenji (Ramer)
-GhostThruster (Swordman)
-PeeKay (Lancer)
--Grendel (Tribe Champion)
--Grendel (Thunderstrike Marines Avatar)
-darkdeathknight (Missile Launcher Marine)
-Riley (Needle Sniper Rifle Marine)
-GhostThruster (Plasma Rifle Marine)
-The_Silent (Storm Bolter Marine)
-Pyramidhe@d (Dreadnought)
-Deon (Timeless Hourglass)
-trippledota (Devil's Dice)
-The_Silent (Overheat)
-Sheephunter (Snipe)

Skins:

 

[Solu9]

Update: 8-3-2014

-The issue with the spellbook has been corrected I believe. At least I don't see it occurring anymore.
When a unit owned by the player uses an ability from a spell book, the next player unit will no longer show a black command panel.

-Well it seems the problem persists.
It turns out that storing unit's class spellbooks in a standard spellbook stops my workaround from functioning.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/graveyard-418/getcamoffset-131434/

Hidden

Q:
Why are post 2,3,4 and 5 deleted?
A:
I realized way too late that I needed the first post for updates. Shame on me.
However I saved all of the original posts in this thread.

Hidden

Post: 2

I haven't tested it yet, but for now, here is what I would say:

Almost no one has patience for turn-based games these days. So I think this would need a little bit more of a twist. While I myself like and appreciate turn-based games, of course it gets boring after a while. I think you would need to put a unique twist on why this particular turn-based map should be played.

My suggestions:
Battle System. As I said, turn-based combat may be too boring for some people. How about mimicking or doing something similar to the combat system of Final Fantasy Crisis Core or Final Fantasy XIII? It's more appealing to modern gaming and gives a more fast paced battle scenario.

Multiplayer! Having versus fights would be pretty epic here. I'd love to have one with my bros.

Graphics.
Better Environment, atmosphere, etc. Although, this is just a test map, right? But make sure you create dynamic terrain on the upcoming map so it would look more appealing for eye-candy lovers like me.
If you ever need help with terrain and design, well, I can help.

Looking forward to this map. More Power to this! +Support!

Post: 3

Incredible! however, you should consider Grandia rpg-style, that would make your project a lot better.

Post: 4

Just an observation:

People using an action battle engine => Wants to create a turn-based game
People using a turn-based engine => Wants to create an action-based game

Post: 5

It is a pretty good system so far.

When you actually implement it, I recommend having fewer abilities. It is a bit daunting to have so many options. You could perhaps give preset classes, and then allow customization if the user wants. Also, maybe you should just have the spell-book already open. It is kind of weird to see abilities such as move, patrol, etc. when they are useless. They just take up space and clutter the command card.

Perhaps give an option for 2v2 or 1v1. It might be interesting.

It would've been a cool campaign. Ever played Sonny? I burnt a lot of time with that game. If you don't end up making the campaign, I recommend making some sort of single-player mode (or a tutorial or w/e) to get people acquainted with the game. Some people might not understand what the objective is, or how the mana regenerates, etc.

That is all for now. Good luck. I know it is just a test map so far, those suggestions are just for the actual map.

Post: 6

I haven't tested it yet, but for now, here is what I would say:

Thank you for your feedback.

Incredible! however, you should consider Grandia rpg-style, that would make your project a lot better.

I have not played Grandia.
Can you elaborate how it will be better using the battle system in that game?

Just an observation:

People using an action battle engine => Wants to create a turn-based game
People using a turn-based engine => Wants to create an action-based game

I understand where you are going. But please give feedback about the map instead.
Besides. I don't know of a turn based game where you can customize as much as WarCraft 3.

When you actually implement it, I recommend having fewer abilities[...]You could perhaps give preset classes, and then allow customization if the user wants. Also, maybe you should just have the spell-book already open. It is kind of weird to see abilities such as move, patrol, etc. when they are useless[...]

This is actually the idea. The units you control in this map are just for tests sake. The main idea is to have a town, or something, where the player(s) can buy spells and items.
Then battle it out in a arena.

Perhaps give an option for 2v2 or 1v1. It might be interesting.

Indeed. There will almost definitely be a PvP option along with the PvAI option.
However I really like the idea of a 2v2 part. Though it will be hard to implement.
I even thought about a tournament system where more battles will be fought at the same time.

It would've been a cool campaign. Ever played Sonny?[...]If you don't end up making the campaign, I recommend making some sort of single-player mode (or a tutorial or w/e) to get people acquainted with the game[...]

Yeah but I the idea for the campaign went far over my head and more less became just a good idea.
Single player mode, can you elaborate? Because the campaign was going to be single player anyway.

Edit:
I just quickly glanced over that Sonny game.
The campaign was going to be a lot more like Final Fantasy with a World Map, cities, minigames, plot/story and so on. That's kinda why it when to the garbage can because it simply became too big for me to complete alone.

A tutorial is a very good idea, and will of course be implemented when the real map hits the streets

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

It's not like turn based battle is not popular these days.
I recommend you check out XCOM: Enemy Unknown, a very recent game with a flawlessly executed turn based battle system.

Then again, if you want to make this work in multiplayer, I recommend actual active-time-battle (the combat system of the FF games with bars slowly filling up and orders being executed when the bar hits the end).

ATB has one advantage over "real" turn based systems: You do not need to wait for the other players to react. Even if they are completely inactive, you can still attack every x seconds.

 

[Solu9]

It's not like turn based battle is not popular these days.
I recommend you check out XCOM: Enemy Unknown, a very recent game with a flawlessly executed turn based battle system.

Then again, if you want to make this work in multiplayer, I recommend actual active-time-battle (the combat system of the FF games with bars slowly filling up and orders being executed when the bar hits the end).

ATB has one advantage over "real" turn based systems: You do not need to wait for the other players to react. Even if they are completely inactive, you can still attack every x seconds.

I believe the game you mention has an older version called U.F.O.?
If so I know little of that game but have seen it played. I like it.

Yup if/when I implement PvP I will add a sort of ATB.
Probably not with a timer-bar which fills, but more like a count down timer, let's says 30 seconds, in which the player can act.
If no action has been taken the next unit will be selected automatically.

How does that sound?

 

[vypur85]

Aha. Finally I see a map from you.
Nice concept I see here.
I haven't played before a turn based game in WC3 so I can't compare much.
Reminds me of Pokemon.

I can foresee this becoming a pretty complicated game though.
If you're really gonna develop this, try to make sure your 'turn based' event is easily configurable. Otherwise, you're gonna mess up many things in future when the game gets really complicated.

The rest of my comments are pretty much similar to Purge's.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I believe the game you mention has an older version called U.F.O.?

UFO is the original (20 year old) game. Enemy Unknown is the modern remake that was done pretty well, despite my initial doubts. I have been a huge fan of UFO.

Yup if/when I implement PvP I will add a sort of ATB.
Probably not with a timer-bar which fills, but more like a count down timer, let's says 30 seconds, in which the player can act.
If no action has been taken the next unit will be selected automatically.

How does that sound?

Sounds bad. In order to make multiplayer compelling with turn based systems, you must reduce the passivity as much as possible. If there's 4 players and all have 30 seconds, that means that you spend 90 seconds each turn doing absolutely nothing.
A well implemented ATB rewards players reacting fast in less downtime and less passivity and a better performance in battle. Also, the response of other players does not affect your downtime at all, therefore it feels much more fluent and dynamic.

 

[Solu9]

Sounds bad. In order to make multiplayer compelling with turn based systems, you must reduce the passivity as much as possible. If there's 4 players and all have 30 seconds, that means that you spend 3/4 the time doing absolutely nothing.
A well implemented ATB rewards players reacting fast in less downtime and less passivity and a better performance in battle. Also, the response of other players does not affect your downtime at all, therefore it feels much more fluent and less passive.

Ah yes.
It will be very complicated to simulate the actual ATB system.
Fx. if a player executes a command while an enemy unit is carrying out it's command it will screw up the system as it is right now.
I'm not sure I my trigger knowledge reaches such a complex system. Well it sounds complex to me anyway

 

[Adiktuz]

I don't know of a turn based game where you can customize as much as WarCraft 3.

Huh? Wc3 is a customizable turn-based game???

 

[Solu9]

Huh? Wc3 is a customizable turn-based game???

You very well know what I mean.

 

[Adiktuz]

No I don't. Because wc3 is not a turn-based game.

and this one is a huge point

Sounds bad. In order to make multiplayer compelling with turn based systems, you must reduce the passivity as much as possible. If there's 4 players and all have 30 seconds, that means that you spend 90 seconds each turn doing absolutely nothing.

 

[Solu9]

No I don't. Because wc3 is not a turn-based game.

Please reserve this thread for feedback, and not discussion.

For the record though.

I don't know of a turn based game where you can customize as much as WarCraft 3.

I don't know of a turn based game where you can customize objects/data as much as you can in WarCraft 3. So I would rather use WarCraft 3 and be creative.
I hope you are fine with this.

 

[Adiktuz]

The comparison is still not-really applicable... also, how many turn based games are modable anyways? Wc3 is customizable because it has modding support... oh wait, that is wrong too... we're not customizing wc3, were only customizing our own map. It is the maps that are customizable, not wc3 in itself.

but really, if ur gonna add multiplayer, better make it fast-paced

 

[Solu9]

The comparison is still not-really applicable... also, how many turn based games are modable anyways? Wc3 is customizable because it has modding support... oh wait, that is wrong too... we're not customizing wc3, were only customizing our own map.

but really, if ur gonna add multiplayer, better make it fast-paced

So your first post was rendered moot the moment you posted it.

And it is a turn based battle system. There are limits to how fast paced it can get.
I see Zwiebelchen's point though, as stated earlier.

 

[Adiktuz]

My first post was as observation. It was clearly stated at the very first statement of that post. Or in case you haven't realized it, it was about ENGINES/EDITORS. and WE is an EDITOR in case you don't know. now if you don't know any 2D engine/editor out there, then it's not my problem.

I know there is a limit to how fast paced it can get, just be sure to keep it an an enoughly fast pace so that it's not boring

 

[Solu9]

My first post was as observation. It was clearly stated at the very first statement of that post. Or in case you haven't realized it, it was about ENGINES/EDITORS. and WE is an EDITOR in case you don't know. now if you don't know any 2D engine/editor out there, then it's not my problem.

Shall we end it?

I know there is a limit to how fast paced it can get, just be sure to keep it an an enoughly fast pace so that it's not boring

Hm yeah.
I have an idea how to incorporate the ATB system but it will take a while before I'll have it done since more pressing matters are at hand, and right now the map is only a PvE experience anyway.

 

[Adiktuz]

you'd need to decide now, because I don't think a game with two types of systems will be nice... so if you think you'd pursue the PvP part, better work on that ATB now.

 

[BandolXD]

I like this map :3 . Gonna test it !
+Rep !

 

[Heinvers]

There are only a few turn based maps for WC3/ This looks interesting, oh and I agree with Adiktuz's advice. Keep working Solu9.

 

[Solu9]

Also, maybe you should just have the spell-book already open. It is kind of weird to see abilities such as move, patrol, etc. when they are useless. They just take up space and clutter the command card.

Yeah this is a great idea.
Though I have troubles seeing how this can be done since as far as I know there is no way to trigger a spellbook to open or be opened?

I like this map :3 . Gonna test it !

Great
If you have suggestions or questions don't hesitate about posting.

There are only a few turn based maps for WC3/ This looks interesting, oh and I agree with Adiktuz's advice. Keep working Solu9.

Myeah you might be right. Though the PvP part will be pretty easy to incorporate, and there are really other parts I need to finish first.
Thanks for the support!

 

[A]mun]

Good work so far, only that spellbook malfunction (select another unit, then reselect the one with a spellbook to make it appear) needs to be fixed.

And i really would like a way around this, since it happened to me too.

 

[Solu9]

Good work so far, only that spellbook malfunction (select another unit, then reselect the one with a spellbook to make it appear) needs to be fixed.

And i really would like a way around this, since it happened to me too.

Aye it is disturbingly frustrating I agree.
When I find a way to fix it I'll upload a newer version asap along with the other changes I have made so far.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Adiktuz]

Or simply remove the command cards for the useless methods? and put the abilities directly instead of spellbooks? Attack can be removed via the option of the OE of each unit... as for the movements, I think if a unit cannot move (via settings on the OE and game constants), the command cards for movements will also be removed

 

[Solu9]

Or simply remove the command cards for the useless methods? and put the abilities directly instead of spellbooks? Attack can be removed via the option of the OE of each unit... as for the movements, I think if a unit cannot move (via settings on the OE and game constants), the command cards for movements will also be removed

The attack command is already gone, no sweat.
However.
The only way I know to remove the commands related to movement (Move, Hold Position, Stop, Patrol) is by setting the default movement speed of the unit to 0.
This causes a problem when a melee attack is chosen because here I normally set the unit's speed to 522 (which is also the default for units and is set to 0 in the beginning of the battle), to make the unit able to move to the target.
It is not possible to go the other way, from 0 - 522 for some reason.
In other words. If the unit's default movement is 0 it cannot be set to a higher value.

About the spellbook.
PurgeandFire suggested to use a periodic trigger which forces the player to press a hotkey. I use "L" since that is not use elsewhere.
By setting the main spellbook's hotkey to "L" it will automatically be opened when it becomes a player control unit's turn.

 

[Adiktuz]

you can then opt to move him via triggers, using SetUnitX/Y or SetUnitPos

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Ah yes.
It will be very complicated to simulate the actual ATB system.
Fx. if a player executes a command while an enemy unit is carrying out it's command it will screw up the system as it is right now.
I'm not sure I my trigger knowledge reaches such a complex system. Well it sounds complex to me anyway

You can always poll all other actions when there is one unit doing something special.

 

[Solu9]

You can always poll all other actions when there is one unit doing something special.

Hm can you come up with a simple example of this?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Hm can you come up with a simple example of this?

When a unit casts a spell, all bars get "halted" until that ability animation of effect is done. Then all bars continue.
If two actions happen at the same time (for example when fighting to creeps of the same kind), then make it random who will act first.

However, the pro solution would be to make all spells coded failure proof no matter what happens inbetween.

 

[Solu9]

When a unit casts a spell, all bars get "halted" until that ability animation of effect is done. Then all bars continue.
If two actions happen at the same time (for example when fighting to creeps of the same kind), then make it random who will act first.

Yeah that could be done fairly easily I guess.
And that will not interfere with units in action.
I was thinking the bars would just keep on loading so multiple actions could occur at the same time.

However, the pro solution would be to make all spells coded failure proof no matter what happens inbetween.

They actually are. All of them

 

[Ralle]

Thread opened by author request.

 

[Solu9]

Thanks for that Ralle.

This is probably not so interesting for the rest of you. The thread has primarily been opened because I need the code.