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The Idealists Challenge 3 - Sci Fi

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sentrywiz

S

sentrywiz

The Photoshop is strong within each participant but me.

So unfair. Am I the only that uses a template?
 

jopi

jopi

jopi

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well, I did not use any photoshop/GIMP in my entry apart from the hero picture.
The rest is all BBCode.
 

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

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@sentrywiz,

jopi said:
well, I did not use any photoshop/GIMP in my entry apart from the hero picture.
The rest is all BBCode.
Click to expand...
This. A lot of tables and a lot of work to make it symetrical and properly wrapped.
Besides, it was stated that you should graphically enhance your entry as much as possible, even tho we went minimalistic.

Good luck to everyone! :)
 

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

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You quoted a part of my, well, quote, that you seem to have missed, so I'll repeat.

"even tho we went minimalistic."

Overall, presentation field yields 15 points, out of 100 total. Of that 15% of score, a judge should have appointed points based on how he values the presentation.
I'll use Mythic's entry (no offences hun, and I do love your entry a lot :wink:), and my entry from this contest: there is certainly a judge that will appoint more points to him due to being graphically more impressive than my entry, and there is certainly a judge that will say "Hey, anyone can do it impressive by making it completely in photoshop. It's not fun/It does not work for me." and appoint me more points.

This is known as the random factor. You can't predict "movement" of mind of a judge, unless you know him really well. Your presentation idea might have topped all of our ideas.

You see, the old saying which, well, says, that if you don't join, you'll regret, but if you DO join, you MAY regret; is totally true. Only thing you could regret is not having enough time, theregore missing an error that should have fixed in your entry.

I'm sure there's a field of expertise you may excel at and bust our asses here.
I'm hoping you'll re-read the upper paragraph once again, and decide to join the next contest. I'd love to see you there :)

And if nothing else, you might not end up in top 3, but you damn well tried to get there. And THAT's what matters, and what makes you a person to respect and value.
 

Kyrbi0

Kyrbi0

Kyrbi0

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Apheraz Lucent said:
You quoted a part of my, well, quote, that you seem to have missed, so I'll repeat.

"even tho we went minimalistic."

Overall, presentation field yields 15 points, out of 100 total. Of that 15% of score, a judge should have appointed points based on how he values the presentation.
I'll use Mythic's entry (no offences hun, and I do love your entry a lot :wink:), and my entry from this contest: there is certainly a judge that will appoint more points to him due to being graphically more impressive than my entry, and there is certainly a judge that will say "Hey, anyone can do it impressive by making it completely in photoshop. It's not fun/It does not work for me." and appoint me more points.

This is known as the random factor. You can't predict "movement" of mind of a judge, unless you know him really well. Your presentation idea might have topped all of our ideas.

You see, the old saying which, well, says, that if you don't join, you'll regret, but if you DO join, you MAY regret; is totally true. Only thing you could regret is not having enough time, theregore missing an error that should have fixed in your entry.

I'm sure there's a field of expertise you may excel at and bust our asses here.
I'm hoping you'll re-read the upper paragraph once again, and decide to join the next contest. I'd love to see you there :)

And if nothing else, you might not end up in top 3, but you damn well tried to get there. And THAT's what matters, and what makes you a person to respect and value.
Click to expand...
I suppose...

So apparently there is a consideration/Criteria for "Presentation" in the Contest. Ok, that's cool.

I suppose I might adjust your statement a bit... Or better, explain it in different terms. We may not be able to tell the 'movements of the mind' of our Judges, but what you speak of is primarily the "Subjective" opinion of the Judge, where the duties of the Judge & the goal/angle of the Criteria should be focused towards maximizing the "Objective" merit of a given entry.

So a two Judges may disagree on whether they like the particular presentation of the entries (e.g. liked the colors better, disliked the organization, etc), and that's fine, but that's subjective. Both of the Judges should be able to look objectively at the entries' Presentation and determine "which was best"; i.e. most organized, most informative, most "well-presented". This, I think, is where I would've failed most; not that what I had in mind was badly-Presented, per se, but that in comparison it is not really all that good (in large part because it's more suited for an RTS hero, not an AoS hero)

Now, I'll openly acknowledge that it's true; we're all humans, and we no more give purely 100% objective (i.e. truth)-based Judging than we can tear out our hearts & replace them with circuitry (at least, not yet... :p). But with the random users piping up in the thread, and the Public Poll with it's less-stringent (compared to the "must test all & use Criteria & be expressive" Judges) Voting guidelines, we've already got plenty of "Subjective-ness"; the Criteria & the Judges are an opportunity to encourage/acquire some serious, demonstrably less 'wishy-washy' critique in the form of an objective viewpoint (also why we prefer 2-4+ Judges, so as to "spread out"/minimize any potential Subjectivity)

Moreover, I have long been a proponent of incorporating some "intentional Subjectivity" into the Criteria, usually in the form of an "Awexomeness" Criteria. It's never worth a lot of points, but it lets the Judges say "yeah, this was pretty cool overall" or "eh, wasn't really feeling this entry". This "outlet" for subjectivity allows a Judge to focus more of their objective-ness to the task in the other, more pertinent Criteria.

~~~

Long Soapbox Rant aside, these Contests at first seem pretty cool to me; I'm all about IDEAS and design (& don't really have a lot to show for it, *cough*), so typing up some ideas in a fancy table is totally a thing I would do. Heck, I have. : ) But... Well, it's not all about winning to me, but I don't enjoy participating in Contests that aren't well-suited to my particular skills. That's fine, I don't raise a fuss; I just don't join. Or, I campaign aggressively for & Host Contests of my own design. >:D

But anyway, these Contests seem to be more about making an AoS hero (which, to be fair, is really appropriate; melee Heroes are, when done right, a bit 'simple' for a whole Contest around them (well... Maybe more than a few (hm, a "Idealist: Make a Full Set of Faction Heroes" Contest?...))), which is really not my forte or preference. I was just gonna take one of my melee-Hero ideas & rework it a bit for an AoS, but meh.

Most importantly, I got pretty sick over this weekend, and just ran out of time (decided "sleeping" & "recuperating" were more important than beating myself up for not entering).

So we'll see. I had kinda talked myself out of these, but you raise some good points. Mayhaps.
 

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

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Love this debate (not sarcasm (really)).

In judge's defense, I, myself, have never judged objectively. I went whole personal, full forward with my heart. I gave around 50% of score based on general opinion (how would most people score) and 50% how I feel about a certain entry. Why? Because people who apply for judging are supposed to have an expertise of a sort in that type of competition. Full objective would make the entire contest plain, monotone and all judgings completely same. That's why I've said at one point that I love the number of judges - more people means a lot more versatility, and one may catch what the other one has missed. And to be honest, I believe very little people, generally on world and not just in THW, wouldn't have serious problems if they had to judge 100% objectively.

A little bit of subjectivity gives it spirit and charm :)
Problem is when people like TWIF come and confuse subjectivity (what you like) for bias (who you like). That's another topic tho, which I won't open as it's not needed. Dunno why I mentioned it either but what the hell.

Anyways. I'm glad I might have stirred up feelings in you about the whole contest :)

Btw, shall we open a thread to leak in ideas for next contest? So we'll have people thinking up some neat ideas while we get the poll and judges to drop dead from work :razz:
 

Paillan

Paillan

Paillan

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I gave perfect presentation score to just one person. And that was because he had the most complete presentation of all.
I don't know any of this people. Exept for Mythic, and he had a normal score, just like everyone else. I always try to be as subjetive as possible, I aim for the machine 100% subjetive idea... Or I try it.
 

jopi

jopi

jopi

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If I recall it right Nightmare implied somthing that sounded to me like he would do it for the 'random' challenge, reading through posts right now, stand by....^^

Here it is:

~Nightmare said:
So I'll be preparing for the main page of the IC4. I'll do it.
Click to expand...
 

jopi

jopi

jopi

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ok^^, then as I've already stated the 'random' challenge would need a bit more of preparation (mainly finding a way to verify the rolls to everyone so nobody can complain about them being manipulated).

If this is too much maybe we should go with some kind of old-school theme with some kind of contrast? e.g. 'Orcs and Humans', 'Warriors and Mages', 'Shamans and Druids' (<-- that's acctually one of my favourites here :ogre_haosis:)
 

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

Apheraz Lucent

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I'd like to see something not so conventional/mainstream, and I'd also like to see an idea generated for a map type other than an AoS. Perhaps 6 or 7 skills RPG Hero, or a Hero Survival map hero.

I know AoS offers the best base, but it starts to fade away after you overuse the same preset. Add a not so inventive theme and there you go a blank contest.
 

Chaosy

Chaosy

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
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~Nightmare said:
Rejudging all the entries, I'm quite unsatisfied with my judgment.
Click to expand...

You too? xD I kinda felt the same. On second thoughts, every single entry should've gotten lower scores when I judged.

When I think about it, max scores should be straight out professional. But I handed out scores keeping in mind that they are made by 'casuals'. So yeah, if I were to re-judge I would've reduced the overall rating on all entries with at least 10 points in total. I mean just compare most story entries with world of warcraft lore. Sites like WoWpedia and WoWwiki got thousands of pages with game lore, meanwhile I hand out 10/10 for 15 row lore. Really pathetic when I think about it xD
 

Vinz

Vinz

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Apheraz Lucent said:
I'd like to see something not so conventional/mainstream, and I'd also like to see an idea generated for a map type other than an AoS. Perhaps 6 or 7 skills RPG Hero, or a Hero Survival map hero.

I know AoS offers the best base, but it starts to fade away after you overuse the same preset. Add a not so inventive theme and there you go a blank contest.
Click to expand...

Anyone supporting Aph here on the theme? I think RPG is pretty interesting.
@Chaosy don't be shy, but okay. :p
 
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