First new Boss Battle now available for testing!

[Zwiebelchen]

Enjoy!

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...6847fd9a1d43a8cc0c830c670&dateline=1443655169

Please use the -test command with discretion and don't spoiler your peeps!
Also, please mark posts or threads about the new boss battle in hidden tags as spoilers!

CHANGELOG (v1.2B (7)):
- Level 42 bears will now cast 'Claw Strike' properly
- Improved Mob repositioning algorithm
- Fixed a couple of bugs with arena battles (alliance states and auto-revival)
- re-added buff art to symbol of fury
- extension package music playback volume slightly reduced
- guardian angel can no longer be cast on enemies
- Dazing trap will now work properly
- Implemented one of the new 1.2C boss battles for balance testing
--> use "-test" chat command to teleport your character to the testing area
--> boss battle will drop no loot or rewards; this is only for playtesting the boss balancing
--> super SPOILERific! Use with discretion and ask players in your session before using this command

 

[BoxOfFaith]

spoiler

Initial reaction from quickly Duoing with Ihaz as Crusader/Bishop:

Are Frostbite/Battering ram/Crushing leap random target spells? He'd kind of unfairly spam combo the Bishop by using these in succession against him. However if its random target then it would probably be unlikely for him to target the same character twice in a row for a nearly insta-KO.

Battering ram also has a huge AOE? He seems like he'd "frost cage" the crusader, and then ram into the Bishop, causing both to take heavy damage. Especially with the crusader facing him left, and having the bishop at a distance to the right. Seems a little strong, but hard to say without a full group.

 

[Ihazdialup]

spoiler

The boss seems perfect, except, box, s0ul, kamina, and I don't like how Battering Ram works.

I propose to change it to only do damage in an aoe around the target, and everyone that stands between the target and the boss, but have the damage increased, so that way the spell is avoidable, but still be deadly

 

[S0ulseeker]

spoiler

I propose to change it to only do damage in an aoe around the target, and everyone that stands between the target and the boss, but have the damage increased, so that way the spell is avoidable, but still be deadly

to expand on this idea *potential boss spoilers*

The closer you are to the target that gets rammed = increased damage but if you try to run away the further you are from impact you take reduced damage. This encourages people to spread out and try to get far away but also forces them to move back in when the ice storm comes.

=============
all in all on a healing stand point this encounter was fun. Great job as always Zwiebel I look forward to what's to come ^_^ I could see how both Druids and Bishops could be beneficial on the boss. His high HP makes the Druid a great pick for his endurance. I was able to consistently heal with no issues of mana regardless how long the fight might take, but at the same time the bishop could help drastically on the battering ram with his shield.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

spoiler

I propose to change it to only do damage in an aoe around the target, and everyone that stands between the target and the boss, but have the damage increased, so that way the spell is avoidable, but still be deadly

I'm confused; this is exactly how it works?

It damages only players within it's movement corridor. Also, I don't know if you noticed, but

Are Frostbite/Battering ram/Crushing leap random target spells?

Yes. I wanted a highly dynamic encounter that requires constant repositioning of the players, since the rest of the battle is pretty straightforward tank & spank.

Basicly, the idea was "spread in a circle around him, tank in the center; move close when he casts shattering glacier, then back out to circle position". The random target movement spells are supposed to make the fight a bit more reactionary in the way that you are forced to improvise until the boss is back in the center.

Btw, Frostbite is dispellable. If you dispel it's effect before the end of the duration, the stun does not apply.

I edited all your posts with spoiler tags. Please keep the hidden tags for anything regarding this encounter going, except if the whole thread is marked as *spoiler*. This one is not.

 

[Ihazdialup]

spoiler

Actually it seems like Battering Ram hits everyone thats even relativly close, I had to move about half of the battle area away before I didn't get hit

 

[Zwiebelchen]

spoiler

Actually it seems like Battering Ram hits everyone thats even relativly close, I had to move about half of the battle area away before I didn't get hit

It basicly creates a rectangular pathway in which it will hit regardless of actual orientation. This means that if you stand on the right side of the boss (slightly more towards the front), you will get hit.

I can possibly change that to create a cross sectional check between a cone and a rectangle so that you won't get hit just by being too close to the boss when it starts.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

ram

I'm confused; this is exactly how it works?

It damages only players within it's movement corridor. Also, I don't know if you noticed, but

Ah then we've all got the same idea but skill is bugged in some way. You can be 3/4 of the arena away and nowhere near the charge line, but still get smashed.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

spoiler

Yeah battering ram has a huge AOE that hits just about everyone within a huge range.

I think it should be changed to always be cast on the lead aggro. It will deal high single target damage to the lead aggro, and then smaller damage to anyone within an AOE of 500 around the lead aggro. Armor should play a role in how much damage the initial single target damage deals. He'd be rather easy to kill without a proper tank I think, since his normal attacks are rather weak. You could also make it so the main target is stunned (or knocked straight up into the air) while anyone caught in the 500 AOE is knocked backwards.

This should cause the tank to always want to stay away from the group, and to make sure they're always forcing the yeti to face away from the group as well.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

spoiler

I think the AoE is just a tiny bit too large (which creates a disconnect between the animation and effect), also, a rectangular area might not be the optimal choice here. I'll change it a bit.

Also, yes, melee damage is only slightly higher than Alchemist I noticed; this needs a buff.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Oh sorry, I was unsure what the uhh.. code was for the spoilers D:

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Oh sorry, I was unsure what the uhh.. code was for the spoilers D:

Its (hidden="spoiler")(/hidden) with square brackets.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

spoiler

Wellll... Im not sure if simply buffing his normal damage is the right route here, we're actually running into some problems with how armor actually works. Capping out a monk at 88 armor or so, having a boss hitting 250 or 300 doesn't really matter, considering how our health works. 3 hits of 170 or 220 is pretty much the same in terms of what needs to be healed. This is where the 20% damage reduction on shields makes tanking with a shield a million times better than simple armor tanking ever would be.

 

[Jumbo]

What about monk's Stone skin @Box?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Also, monks (with the right talent choice) can be made immune to critical hits... which is probably stronger than the 20% shield absorb in terms of predictable damage.

Let's not overbalance this encounter here... It's not meant to be super-ridicolously hard.
I'll do the adjustments to the spells as mentioned, then give a new iteration of this battle for further playtesting.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Oh I wasn't talking specifically monks inability here, I was more making a comment about how the Power creep of Armor vs Player health vs Enemy damage is creating a problem in which player armor is becoming severely devalued. Meaning a 1k hp character with 20 armor will generally have better survivability than 600 hp 100 armor non-shield wearer. Assuming an enemy hits ~500 that extra 80 armor becomes pointless.

spoiler

Anyhow the boss itself didn't seem difficult at all. I really enjoyed that he works as a sort of gear check, given his extremely high health but nothing was too overly deadly. Only issue is Battering Rams AOE hit, assuming that gets adjusted to work more properly, I don't think much needs to actually change. Great mechanics .

 

[Jumbo]

Damnit I still havent tried it out yet. Only in solo with 46 crusader and shammy. But that can obviously only make one hold for 6 minutes, doing minimal damage, and then dying. You guys still testing?

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Ihaz went to bed a while ago..

I can hop on and test if we get a proper group together though!

 

[Jumbo]

Are you in the Brotherhood of Gaia group on Garena and what is your garena nick? ( I ask this for ease of communication)

 

[BoxOfFaith]

I don't use Garena at all D: I'll just lobby on Bnet, Sorry for the off-topic Zwieb@

 

[BoxOfFaith]

spoiler

Hmm. His heallth may be a bit too high, unless this is by design. Hes clearly going to require at least 4 players who are level 50, with max foothills gear (You may get away with a full team of 6 people with a bit lesser gear/levels but the point still stands). Hill giant clearly never required this sort of preparation before being able to kill him and gaining access to the foothills content.

Of course Im not against making the entry requirements to this new area higher than they were for the foothills, but was just curious if this is what you had in mind.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Yes, I basicly calculated his HP based on some empirical DPS values I got from foothills-equipped players.

If this boss requires 4 well-geared players to bring it down, then mission acomplished.

The new boss battles are meant to be a transit step towards D4 content, which will be significantly harder than previous content. I didn't want to devaluate level 50 questing and foothills boss content as means to "gear up" like i did with Dungeon 3 basicly getting skipped as it's rewards were not neccesary to beat the foothills content.

This boss is a testing ground for my concept of "5 minute bosses". Which means all battles will be balanced around an expected encounter length of 5 minutes with appropriate gear. This is to make mana management and cooldowns/talents more significant in the encounter design. The goblin alchemist doesn't last longer than 2 or 3 flamethrowers in the current meta, which makes any optimization of gameplay in terms of DPS/healing and mana pointless.


I get your point with power creep and armor vs. health. But this is actually not an issue, as armor values can simply be scaled alongside of damage and health. Unlike percentual mitigation (evasion), armor on gear can be scaled infinitely.
Also, you probably under-estimate the impact of armor in the current meta: A top-geared 88 armor crus will shove over 30% of incoming damage of the attacks of Gazrow or the Gargoyle away. With mostly only 700HP, that is a lot. A 300 damage attack will be reduced to 212, which means you will be able to take 4 full hits instead of 3 before dying without receiving a heal. This seems insignificant on paper, but is a huge difference in practice, especially in stressful healing situations.
So, if the HP and damage of bosses doubles, so should armor. It's just a matter of proper item scaling.

As a note, it's okay to talk about the boss in "general" terms outside of hidden tags. You only have to use hidden tags if you mention any specifics about it's abilities, location or tactics.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Ah alright, then yeah its in a very good standing to accomplishment that.

Speaking of D3.. Did you change the drop rate of Lunar from Andy after you changed it to a blue item?

 

[Jumbo]

I think the new boss is great. And the philosophy of 5 mins. and the progression compared to Foothills and D4 is very well thought out. I can't wait for this now!

 

[S0ulseeker]

Slightly off topic but roughly how many of these new bosses can we expect in the new zone pre-D4?

Also what did you think of this suggestion in regards to ihaz's original post?

to expand on this idea *potential boss spoilers*

The closer you are to the target that gets rammed = increased damage but if you try to run away the further you are from impact you take reduced damage. This encourages people to spread out and try to get far away but also forces them to move back in when the ice storm comes.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Slightly off topic but roughly how many of these new bosses can we expect in the new zone pre-D4?

I plan to have 3 outdoor bosses total in the next content upgrade before moving on the D4 content.
Sounds disappointing, but it's a lot considering that there will also be lots of other new content aside from bosses with repeatable quests and a stronger focus on crafting.

Also what did you think of this suggestion in regards to ihaz's original post?

Sounds... inconsistent to me. I don't like concepts that don't have a clear visual feedback in them. Changing the ability to work that way would have to be indicated by the art and animation ... which is hard to do.

Also, I don't really see the point in it. Avoiding the boss mechanics is kind of what this encounter is about.

 

[SHBlade]

I plan to have 3 outdoor bosses total in the next content upgrade before moving on the D4 content.
Sounds disappointing, but it's a lot considering that there will also be lots of other new content aside from bosses with repeatable quests and a stronger focus on crafting.

Well for me Gaias needs as many things that need effort, time and skill as possible, not only bosses.