Bad thread titles and general off-topicness

[WaterKnight]

Greetings.

I got a complaint about moderation:

Throughout the forum, but especially in Warcraft III Modding, there are occurences of thread titles that are redundant in meaning to the subforums they are posted in and/or just do not tell much.

This reaches from "Suggestion" here in the Town Hall, whereas this function is already stated in the subtitle, a thread "Model Editing" in 3D Modeling Tutorials, onwards to "Which is better?" or the much more common Need help/I have a question-types that are even, every now and then, combined with pushing expressions like "In urgent need of help" or "I cant sleep for this question".

Furthermore, obvious spam in threads is not detected. This thread gives a good example. People rather talk about reputation and treat it like a required currency or simply say "I don't think it's possible" without reasoning it. If they do think so and cannot give any further hint, they should not post but instead wait for others that may contribute something useful. When the thread is bumped by the creator with the matter still being unfinished, then he/she can be cleared up, but please with going a bit into detail and not just having a feeling.

This lead me to reporting some posts. Having seen no changes and noticed that this seems to be normal the some months I am active for here now, I have to question the moderation on this site. There were not even moderator edits or public announcements for these misbehaviors. In case you do not want to close the threads, rename them appropriately for others to keep a proper environment.

 

[Kino]

I dont think the Mods should bother to edit thread names unless they are offensive.

The names may sound redundant/may not say much, but ask yourself what exactly is wrong with this.
As long as the post itself is relevant and clear enough why does it matter.

And in those cases where neither the thread name nor post is helpful, users usually take it upon themselves to ask for elaboration on the topic.

Its a wc3 help forum, its gonna be like that anyway.

 

[WaterKnight]

The names may sound redundant/may not say much, but ask yourself what exactly is wrong with this.
As long as the post itself is relevant and clear enough why does it matter.

You forget what the topic was about when seeing the list, have troubles finding a thread via search function too. Pushy names are indiscreet and invite to more spam. That posts would be relevant and clear enough is often not the case. Also, if there was an adequate thread title, the reader could already tell from it if he/she could contribute. And of course, it looks like a dumping ground.

And in those cases where neither the thread name nor post is helpful, users usually take it upon themselves to ask for elaboration on the topic.

Yes, which creates more clarification posts, false responses and "by the way"-spam that could probably have been avoided if the problem was stated properly in the first place.

Its a wc3 help forum, its gonna be like that anyway.

Be assured that's not the way it is in all Wc3 help forums.

 

[Kino]

Well in most cases where the thread name/post is unreadable, theres nothing much you can do. Nothing much the mods can do either.

I mean if a post simply says "Help me + rep" theres nothing much that can be done. Other than a warning issued of course.

 

[WaterKnight]

I mean if a post simply says "Help me + rep" theres nothing much that can be done. Other than a warning issued of course.

Yes. Not giving out warnings is what I am criticizing. If people were to be punished, the premised scenario should lessen.

 

[Kino]

Yes, but the thing is that is it neccesary to punish such "offenses"?

Honestly I think its a waste of time and resources.

 

[Crayons]

titles like these?
1. Help in modelling
2. Question
3. Help!
and others?

yeah. The only problem is that noobs make those threads. Which make them unfamiliar with this problem. I suggest NOTICEABLE sticky threads with NOTICEABLE titles

 

[WaterKnight]

Yes, but the thing is that is it neccesary to punish such "offenses"?

Honestly I think its a waste of time and resources.

What else are the forum moderators moderating for? I do not claim that everything must be monitored around the clock but it has to be signalized to the users now and then that there are rules to stick to, to enable a good conversation environment.

@Crayons: Actually, I have seen some people with quite a few posts doing it repeatedly.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

The only thing that annoys me in posts is

Can u remove smiles from the site so we normal ppl dont see noob posts with mega smiley spam?

 

[Zombie]

The only thing that annoys me in posts is

Can u remove smiles from the site so we normal ppl dont see noob posts with mega smiley spam?

One may easily get annoyed by the overuse of idiotic abbreviations as well. I assume that you as a "normal person" realize that that it's all a matter of perspective, thus the general desire for change is absent, unless you are able to present medical papers.

Regarding the OP: It's all the interest of the poster to make his thread interesting by giving it a proper title. If that is not done, it may be dubious that his thread may even get checked by professionals, thus his addressed questionnaire may remain unanswered.

I see little need for staff interference into such a trivial matter.

 

[Traxamillion]

One may easily get annoyed by the overuse of idiotic abbreviations as well.

Indeed.

 

[Direfury]

vrysrsbsns

 

[Wazzz]

vrysrsbsns

The bullshit ends now

 

[anarchianbedlam]

The bullshit ends now

stop with the "bitchiness"... we wont take it!

 

[WaterKnight]

I have had some private messaging around the matter and your answers convinced me that the bad titles and simple spam might not be of top priority now, still they exist.

However, I see some result of what I think may partly derive of the complaint's content, from not punishing users for said things.

So, I'd like to extend the thread and signalize occurences of people making fun of each other, being very disrespectful and even more offensive spam. These, of course, should be cautioned all the more but maybe you have any idea how to decrease them in other ways?

 

[GIANT_CRAB]

I have had some private messaging around the matter and your answers convinced me that the bad titles and simple spam might not be of top priority now, still they exist.

However, I see some result of what I think may partly derive of the complaint's content, from not punishing users for said things.

So, I'd like to extend the thread and signalize occurences of people making fun of each other, being very disrespectful and even more offensive spam. These, of course, should be cautioned all the more but maybe you have any idea how to decrease them in other ways?

Reduce the amount of retards.

 

[LordDz]

The only thing that annoys me in posts is

Can u remove smiles from the site so we normal ppl dont see noob posts with mega smiley spam?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adblock-plus/
Install it, right click on the image and just press addblock. Voilá!
It also blocks all the youtube commercials which is like... Orgasm.

 

[fladdermasken]

So, I'd like to extend the thread and signalize occurences of people making fun of each other, being very disrespectful and even more offensive spam. These, of course, should be cautioned all the more but maybe you have any idea how to decrease them in other ways?

Wait, people are offensive on the interweb?

...

On a lighter note, offensive/disrespectful posts are dealt with regularly, i.e. deleted or regulated.
Violators are warned, neg-repped and eventually (if the violations are repeated continuously) infracted and temporarily/permanently banned.

Note that sarcasm, irony, satire and the occasional friendly pinch is generally condoned.

Unless a situation arises that calls for further action, I dare say that taking additional steps to prevent hostility would be counterproductive.

And on a completely unrelated note,
I found it quite funny that Bribe made an appearance in the aforementioned thread http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/very-simple-question-192156/ just as they were discussing the immorality of bribing users with reputation.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

its not the mod's fault that the common users lack the common courtesy to label things informatively and definitively.

 

[Wazzz]

Oh goody, another bash-the-mods thread. Time to put my 2 cents in.

It's not the mods fault when users behave stupidly. Users do this all the time, and there are only so many mods. So how about instead of talking about doing something, we help the mods out a little? They can't be everywhere at once, after all.

 

[WaterKnight]

Wait, people are offensive on the interweb?

Professionell thinking. Something is, can therefore not be changed.[/irony]
It's not desired and you do not need to mimic all the bad customs of the internet.

Note that sarcasm, irony, satire and the occasional friendly pinch is generally condoned.

Nobody says that there cannot be any fun or side notes, though they should not be the main point to/of a post in a serious-meant thread. The Off-Topic forums are a complete other story.

And on a completely unrelated note,
I found it quite funny that Bribe made an appearance in the aforementioned thread http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/very-simple-question-192156/ just as they were discussing the immorality of bribing users with reputation.

I have still seen Bribe's post. The announcement was okay, though very soft for the obvious off-topic motivation users posted in for. Things that do not belong to the thread but that you still want to tell one person can be private messaged.

@Pyramidhe@d: I guess new users do not pop out from nowhere to here. They are invited by contacts or interested in wc3/modding and searched for it or just read somewhere about this site.

If they are invited or read about it, they will get impressions from that one/the description, meaning some advice and understanding will already transfer from him/her/it. On the other hand, the new user will collect new information him/herself by reading what's already available in the forum. If that is a dumping ground, of course, one will less hesitate to add likewise content.

I do not really get why some blame me I would bash/offend the mods (were more than Wazzz). It's a formally written, reasoned complaint and a matter you can discuss about, including suggestions. Normally, one could be thankful for. It's for the quality of the site and things should at least be signalized/taken. In case my reportings of posts is not okay, I can also be informed about it with reason.

 

[GhostThruster]

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. WaterKnight, this thread was doomed from the beginning...

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

ok. lemme elaborate the situation

this is the situation.
we have these thing called rules. riiiight at the top. you can see a link to it.

no one reads them.

now, the rules are there as well as being there right before you register. there is even a little tick box which confirms on whether they have read the rules or not.
the rules are specifically placed next to the forum button which people will no doubt press.
now. common sense will dictate that "hey, this rule thing must be pretty important. i better read on it."
considering how many people act like they have not read the rules would make me think that these people also lack common sense. its either they have not read the rules which are obviously there or they've read the rules but still act as is.

people lack common sense and thus they act without common sense.

you have identified that it is the USERS that post these crap.

now. if an arson (just like the common user, an arson also lacks common sense) sets a house on fire and if the firefighters cannot put it out quickly enough, who must be blamed for the damage caused by the fire? certainly not the firefighters.

now if you want to complain that users are posting stupid stuff, complain to the users, not the moderators.

i suppose firefighters can look over that house 24/7 but can they also look over every room at EVERY house? no they cannot and they do not. it is up to normal people to dial for the firefighters if they spot a fire hazard.

like such, USERS must report anything they think is wrong because moderators do not have eyes everywhere.

 

[GIANT_CRAB]

ok. lemme elaborate the situation

this is the situation.
we have these thing called rules. riiiight at the top. you can see a link to it.

no one reads them.

now, the rules are there as well as being there right before you register. there is even a little tick box which confirms on whether they have read the rules or not.
the rules are specifically placed next to the forum button which people will no doubt press.
now. common sense will dictate that "hey, this rule thing must be pretty important. i better read on it."
considering how many people act like they have not read the rules would make me think that these people also lack common sense. its either they have not read the rules which are obviously there or they've read the rules but still act as is.

people lack common sense and thus they act without common sense.

you have identified that it is the USERS that post these crap.

now. if an arson (just like the common user, an arson also lacks common sense) sets a house on fire and if the firefighters cannot put it out quickly enough, who must be blamed for the damage caused by the fire? certainly not the firefighters.

now if you want to complain that users are posting stupid stuff, complain to the users, not the moderators.

i suppose firefighters can look over that house 24/7 but can they also look over every room at EVERY house? no they cannot and they do not. it is up to normal people to dial for the firefighters if they spot a fire hazard.

like such, USERS must report anything they think is wrong because moderators do not have eyes everywhere.

I read all rules and terms & conditions whenever I was asked to, because, last time, I was scammed 30$.

On-topic.
I partly agree with pyramidhe@d.
The thing is, even though some people read'em.
They might just say, "Meh, who cares about rules? Rules are for breaking."

 

[WaterKnight]

Hm, no, there was actually a mod among the posts that have been deleted here.

If the arsonist is a kid, will it or the parents be liable? (I think your site would even be partly liable if I posted illegal stuff and you do not delete it) And there will be certainly some discredit for the firefighters too if the fire was easy to handle but they failed miserably because its their task and others build on them as they have agreed to the job. There might have even been some other applicants for the job position. Of course, volunteers are on another level.

For the comparison with the kid: Some firefighters give seminars and go into schools to clarify about fire prevention. And similar, I had already stated above, moderators have educational tasks and should not just hand out warnings without giving a reason. It was shown in the example with Bribe.

And yes, users not abiding the rules are guilty, I wanted to address them here too and discuss the matter, else I would have posted in the Admin Contact, so the admins would have informed you.

The point is what can we do and what is senceful to do in order to improve things. I suggested moderators should punish users because moderators already have some structural concept, talk to one another and work for the site. That's a more centralized approach than to privately messaging everyone in the forum and certainly more sustainable. Other than firefighters, moderators have some rights to barge in and it should be easier to monitor everything, though it's not required. Users should just know that there are these reasons to be cautioned for and that there is a (not too little) possibility it may affect them. I said that I have seen dozens of offendings of the rules stated here, some people do it multiple times and not a single time was there a direct warning or notification to the specific user (I do not know about private message traffic but when some users just do it occasionally, and PMing would not bring it to the community). The one with Bribe was an exception and not pointed out as a special user's fault and hardly exhorting.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

They might just say, "Meh, who cares about rules? Rules are for breaking."

by the same token, skulls are for breaking as well

If the arsonist is a kid, will it or the parents be liable? (I think your site would even be partly liable if I posted illegal stuff and you do not delete it) And there will be certainly some discredit for the firefighters too if the fire was easy to handle but they failed miserably because its their task and others build on them as they have agreed to the job.

we aint your parents. why does every user expect us to spoonfeed them?

 

[Kuhneghetz]

we aint your parents. why does every user expect us to spoonfeed them?

Because they are stupid.

 

[Wazzz]

I think the problem with whoever agrees with Waterknight's points including Waterknight themself is that they see the mods as responsible for user's stupidity. Pretty fucking sure that if Waterknight was a mod/admin for this site, he'd do a worse job. However, people like him usually think 'I can do a better job than these people who have been doing something for quite some time, because my opinion in myself is amazingly high.'

Long story short, get off your high-horse, Waterknight, you're not that good.

Something more interesting: Sweet avatar, Dan!

 

[fladdermasken]

Practically everyone hired to be a staff member is obsessed with changing the world at first.
That fades, oh boy does it fade.

In most cases, one month is more than enough to render any ambitions you once had non existent, leaving you as cynical as you deem Pyhead to be right now.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

i was always this cynical

 

[GhostThruster]

@WaterKnight: Moderators aren't here to teach us. They're not teachers, they enforce the rules. And even if you do feel that they have a responsibility to 't34ch da n00bs', they and I sure as hell don't.

 

[Wazzz]

Rule #9 says it all, really.

 

[Afterburner]

Ouch...no need to kill the guy for bringing up something, he didn't say he would do better...

Though I must agree, from what I have seen, the mods are doing a good job.

*attention I am quite new around and thus inexperienced, but I still felt I had to state my opinion*