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[Role Playing Game] Acheron

On which RPG Genre this project should be focused the most?


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Thanks, zxzx. I hope this will be even better than Iceborn. :)

On the side note, I submitted a poll concerning the direction of RPG genre. This project may appear mostly as dungeon crawler or narrative genre RPG, so your votes may direct me which genre deserves more attention.

What is more, Molaf is currently working on the underworld map that may appear in the game. I also finished the first optional quest, took me loads of time as it required lots of voice acting to be done, coding and this quest will be noted for its reward as there will be 3 rewards you will be able to pick from. Yet it is also noted for moral point of view as there will be no good decision and no matter what, morally you will do a bad thing to someone. Perhaps I should include more simple and quick quests, but with some tricks, instead of few big ones.

I think there are plenty of dungeon crawlers, you should make something more appealing. I think the choice Narrative RPG & Dungeon Crawler would create amazing experience. I vote on that.
 
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it would be nice if you make 2 mains characters to choose from so you can play the whole game more than 2 times if possible ofcourse

and btw blizzard should hire you to work for them xD or donate you for your work
 
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From the articles I read, it appeared that the mixture of several genres of RPG never succeed and it results in failure as many game developers attempted to do so, because this way it doesn't focus on one main experience that would attract certain circle of people who would seek for that kind of experience. So it results into few average experiences. But I don't think this might be the case of Warcraft 3.

The main action of course will be dungeon crawler, but of course I may provide narrative experience as I am willing to have a huge story with several endings, so anyone who is enjoying a narrative, they will have a chance to enjoy it, and who don't, they will have a chance to skip it. Purpose of this poll is to help me decide which genre deserves more attention, but there will be both of them.

Two main characters? Well that would be problematic in many ways, of course perhaps I could let player to pick another model for their character to play with. As for replayability, difficulty modes may bring different experience as there will be better luck rate for the loot, therefore better items with more effects, also harder puzzles as each will have 3 variantions for 3 difficulties, and so on. Some quests as the latest one will have 3 rewards to pick from. What is more, game itself may have 3 endings, meaning it may motivate player to try again on another mode I think.

Hehe, I don't do anything special to deserve Blizzard's attention, there are people around Hive that deserves it more than I do. :)

EDIT: Also reworked Hades model. I tossed previous one out, it was too cartoonish and too powerfully looking, Hades role is being adjusted, so his model as well. This is just Vaanel's model that has been edited and recolored. Hades is described as very rich, with lots of accessories on him. I hope these colors are not too bright, I may darken him a bit in game.

5meBySK.png
 
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From the articles I read, it appeared that the mixture of several genres of RPG never succeed and it results in failure as many game developers attempted to do so, because this way it doesn't focus on one main experience that would attract certain circle of people who would seek for that kind of experience. So it results into few average experiences. But I don't think this might be the case of Warcraft 3.

The main action of course will be dungeon crawler, but of course I may provide narrative experience as I am willing to have a huge story with several endings, so anyone who is enjoying a narrative, they will have a chance to enjoy it, and who don't, they will have a chance to skip it. Purpose of this poll is to help me decide which genre deserves more attention, but there will be both of them.

Two main characters? Well that would be problematic in many ways, of course perhaps I could let player to pick another model for their character to play with. As for replayability, difficulty modes may bring different experience as there will be better luck rate for the loot, therefore better items with more effects, also harder puzzles as each will have 3 variantions for 3 difficulties, and so on. Some quests as the latest one will have 3 rewards to pick from. What is more, game itself may have 3 endings, meaning it may motivate player to try again on another mode I think.

Hehe, I don't do anything special to deserve Blizzard's attention, there are people around Hive that deserves it more than I do. :)

EDIT: Also reworked Hades model. I tossed previous one out, it was too cartoonish and too powerfully looking, Hades role is being adjusted, so his model as well. This is just Vaanel's model that has been edited and recolored. Hades is described as very rich, with lots of accessories on him. I hope these colors are not too bright, I may darken him a bit in game.

5meBySK.png

Nice new model update! I love the skin palette color, he looks very wise. Tough you should make his robe black since black represents death, and Hades after all is the god of underworld- where the dead reside.
 
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I'm glad you liked it, Void. :) Well yeah, black would make sense indeed, but black doesn't look very rich. Black, dark blue and dark violet looks like colors of the underworld. :) I am also thinking about the crown that Hades is noted for, as well as the traditional spear, but that one will be attached on demand. However I still don't like something about him, perhaps the brightness.

I will be also working on Charon model, I will probably base it on the same model as Hades, except there will be no face, hood and no accessories.
 
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You are already helping me a lot just by posting here and providing me critique, A_Void, but currently I am only in need of modeling help, to be specific, animating. I was thinking about learning some basic stuff myself though. But if you see something that could be improved, I would surely accept your help. :)
 
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I have the same terrain style in my map. I already test you last map (Iceborn) and the
problem is the lag that cause the amount of doodads that you put in there.
Its not a softy fps to play and that is quite frustrating.
 
You are already helping me a lot just by posting here and providing me critique, A_Void, but currently I am only in need of modeling help, to be specific, animating. I was thinking about learning some basic stuff myself though. But if you see something that could be improved, I would surely accept your help. :)

I could have some design ideas. I also have created a camera system, you are always locked on your hero unit. You can rotate the camera with arrow buttons, zoom in-out with mouse scrolling (middle button of mouse).

With this camera It would be so immersive to play in the underworld, looking in the above (sky, cave?) , around your character. Pretty amazing to see it come to a reality it would be.

The camera system was supposed to be used in my unfinished project - Warcraft 3 Legends (Alpha 1999 Recreation)
 
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Sounds cool. I don't know about rotating part however, because if player is to rotate freely, some creepy parts of terrain would emerge, of course these can be fixed. Zooming part seems attractive, because there will be various armor and weapon items that would surely look great when zoomed due to HQ textures. I would want it locked however. Send me a PM with this system and instructions, thank you for sharing, proper credits will be given. :)
 
Sounds cool. I don't know about rotating part however, because if player is to rotate freely, some creepy parts of terrain would emerge, of course these can be fixed. Zooming part seems attractive, because there will be various armor and weapon items that would surely look great when zoomed due to HQ textures. I would want it locked however. Send me a PM with this system and instructions, thank you for sharing, proper credits will be given. :)

Ok, I will send it tomorrow. Creepy parts of terrain? You can cover them up in blackness or fix them. Yes the camera is locked, your zooming in is locked on the unit (hero) you are selected. :)
 
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Thanks. :)

Here is another simple update. Currently making more of terrain. This time I will attempt to make more greek-like terrain, because previous wasn't really greek in any way. Of course it will be dark like the rest. Here are some statue models in a WIP environment. In the background you can see Medusa's statue, also few details of terrain such as HQ ground tile and some pools that are noted in greek palaces. Water will be bright cyan it and will fit well to the underworld theme.

ZRboNM1.png
 
Thanks. :)

Here is another simple update. Currently making more of terrain. This time I will attempt to make more greek-like terrain, because previous wasn't really greek in any way. Of course it will be dark like the rest. Here are some statue models in a WIP environment. In the background you can see Medusa's statue, also few details of terrain such as HQ ground tile and some pools that are noted in greek palaces. Water will be bright cyan it and will fit well to the underworld theme.

ZRboNM1.png

HQ ground tile, new doodads? Great, keep up with the updates. Also isn't ironic that Medusa is a statue, when clearly in mythology she turned other people into stone, if they looked at her eyes.

The color of the water was also chosen wisely, tough you could use other texture of the water.

Also, any thoughts whether are you going to use that camera system, or are you looking for more simple?

Question: What kind of camera style are you aiming for? First person, bird's view? or select-able? I still think that it would be more immersive for the player to explore the Underworld in first person or the one I gave you (rotate-able).
 
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Thank, A_Void. Yeah, I am planning to make a quest with that statue, it may talk with female voice, I am thinking about Mudusa's soul trapped in a statue after Perseus beheaded her, since this happens before Charon who carries souls to the true underworld. I may see how it turns out. I also have another book-like system for scrolls, will see how it will go with this, because currently I am occupied with terrain. As for the water, it is very well animated, also dark surroundings may stop water texture from standing out too much I believe, will see, but if I have to, I will change it. :)

It will be traditional bird's view. It would be problematic to apply first person view because I designed terrain for bird view not to interact with objects. Terrain also has many flat areas that looks bad when looked from first person view, first person may also reveal terrain areas that should not be visible. Well your system is fine, but I still worry about camera going through textures or around objects. Perhaps a certain condition in triggering would stop from going too far? I would also need some way to get back to default camera and not to get stuck at rotated angle. I really want zoom in - out system that would enable to zoom very closely or zoom out very far, but I suppose it needs Jass.
 
Thank, A_Void. Yeah, I am planning to make a quest with that statue, it may talk with female voice, I am thinking about Mudusa's soul trapped in a statue after Perseus beheaded her, since this happens before Charon who carries souls to the true underworld. I may see how it turns out. I also have another book-like system for scrolls, will see how it will go with this, because currently I am occupied with terrain. As for the water, it is very well animated, also dark surroundings may stop water texture from standing out too much I believe, will see, but if I have to, I will change it. :)

It will be traditional bird's view. It would be problematic to apply first person view because I designed terrain for bird view not to interact with objects. Terrain also has many flat areas that looks bad when looked from first person view, first person may also reveal terrain areas that should not be visible. Well your system is fine, but I still worry about camera going through textures or around objects. Perhaps a certain condition in triggering would stop from going too far? I would also need some way to get back to default camera and not to get stuck at rotated angle. I really want zoom in - out system that would enable to zoom very closely or zoom out very far, but I suppose it needs Jass.

I could remove height rotation and replace it with zoom in- out properly. So you will be able to rotate left and right only - around your character.

# I would also need some way to get back to default camera.

There is, in the trigger's instructions I wrote down about disabling and enabling the camera at any given moment.

Disable Camera trigger disables the camera and returns to the default view.
Enable Camera trigger enables the camera and allow it to be controlled again.
 
Cool! Yeah, you should slow the zooming down, it should be similar to the speed of mouse wheel roll effect. So camera resets to default just by rolling the wheel, right?

When you're done, send it over. :)

I still need to know what will be the minimum and maximum values for zooming in-out.

Well?
 
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Oh, sorry about that. Well, the zooming-in point should be a little beneath the hero so that it would be completely on full screen, this would let player to see the details of armor, etc. Maximum zooming-out should be like twice of the distance of default camera. It would be even cooler if I could adjust these values myself, just to get the best effect, it is hard to tell just by thought.
 
Oh, sorry about that. Well, the zooming-in point should be a little beneath the hero so that it would be completely on full screen, this would let player to see the details of armor, etc. Maximum zooming-out should be like twice of the distance of default camera. It would be even cooler if I could adjust these values myself, just to get the best effect, it is hard to tell just by thought.

Ok, here is a quick run trough features:

- Height Calculation
- Zoom In/ Out
- Zoom In/ Out Limit (Configurable) ;currently ZoomIn = 500, ZoomOut = 3000.
- Rotation
- Rotation and Zoom In/ Out Speed (Configurable) ;currently 20/ per second.


To activate the camera you have to type in:
-enable camera

To disable the camera you have to type in:
-disable camera

Scroll Wheel changes angle of attack, gives more of a first person angle. Just like in the regular Warcraft 3.

If you spot any issues and bugs please report them to me.
 
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Thanks, Sclammerz. :)

This works just fine, A Void, some things I will adjust myself. Thank you for this system, I will make sure to credit you properly. :)

By the way, what Camera Height trigger is for? I deleted it, because it raised camera up high and it wasn't really good for the camera, instead I made a constant offset of 50.
 
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So here is another big piece of terrain update. This is the second half of the current area structure. I tried making more greek-like terrain this time. This place will also contain few quests, one big quest of course that will involve Medusa and in later game perhaps even Aegis shield. First two images are from Editor, another two are ingame look with proper lighting.
1.
uCJo42h.png


2.
VazQv8K.png


3.
PrNEByi.png


4.
QFmvDZG.png
 
Thanks. :) Yeah, these glows were kind of too spread, changed it a bit. As for the cursor, not sure, it does look kind of blurry, but it will stay like this for now, will change it maybe later.

Camera Height trigger was for calculating the height to match the terrain elevation. It is super useful and you should not remove it!

I can adjust the camera for you if needed, but I need to test it on your terrain.

Edit: Those new terrain images are great. The glow is too much spread as said and the cursor is too blurry.

The water looks magnificent in the dark environment!
 
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Thanks. :) I see, but it really screws up the offset. Everything was extremely set up high. Now I changed the offset to a constant 150 value if I recall correctly and now everything is just fine. I walked over various terrain levels and everything seemed to be okay, I will bring that back if I bump into troubles.

Currently in development of another big quest that will involve Perseus and Medusa.
 
Thanks. :) I see, but it really screws up the offset. Everything was extremely set up high. Now I changed the offset to a constant 150 value if I recall correctly and now everything is just fine. I walked over various terrain levels and everything seemed to be okay, I will bring that back if I bump into troubles.

Currently in development of another big quest that will involve Perseus and Medusa.


Will this be open-world? I mean will you be able to backtrack?
 
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Thanks, Imperator. :)

Sadly it will not be too open, world will be designed in dungeon crawler style, yet I will try to bring some secret places, some hidden quest starters, basically some features of open world that would also lead to backtracking or going off the linear setup for a while. Open world would be just too problematic to design for me, it would take me too long to develope, so I will focus on linear gameplay with some features of open world which is the key for a successful narrative.

What is more, I will attempt to concentrate a lot in a small area unlike in Iceborn where you had lots of space and terrain just designed to walk and encounter enemies. Little of game is done and already I am at 5000 doodads, it may however result in over 20 000 when map is completed, I hope it will not bring any troubles.

In addition, I don't recall if I already mentioned this, but there will be completely different three endings of the game that would surely motivate to replay. Malaf already polished the narrative part of these endings and if I manage to realize all of that, it will be just great. :)
 
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No, there will be no dialogue to set the ending. Player will not even really know that there can be several endings, you will simply follow your own decisions and your actions will lead to one of the endings. There will be easy, medium and hard endings in terms of content, basic difficulty, dynamic plot and outcome of storyline may shift depending on what you choose to do as you will be presented with different points of view. I will try to present the evil side not as so purely evil, but also good in a sense, as both sides will be protecting their interests. Most likely you will follow the most natural path, but if you wish to go against it, you will be presented with another ending, and there also will be a third ending that will not be so obvious, it will be much harder to reach, this will separate players, who takes their time and pays attention to the environment and desire to explore everything possible, from players who just goes along the river.

Game will be split into 3 main pieces that will contain of 3 major areas:

1. Erebus, place where souls come first and then if meets demands, are being carried across the Styx by Charon.
2. Asphodel Mewdows, where common souls are living, this area is protected by Cerberus, Hades' pet.
3. Tartarus, the pit of the damned where all evil spirts are trapped, along with Titans.

First two areas will be linear in terms of storyline, however the third area or stage of the game will be different as you will decide what path to follow, one path may be not even linked with Tartarus, others may.
 
No, there will be no dialogue to set the ending. Player will not even really know that there can be several endings, you will simply follow your own decisions and your actions will lead to one of the endings. There will be easy, medium and hard endings in terms of content, basic difficulty, dynamic plot and outcome of storyline may shift depending on what you choose to do as you will be presented with different points of view. I will try to present the evil side not as so purely evil, but also good in a sense, as both sides will be protecting their interests. Most likely you will follow the most natural path, but if you wish to go against it, you will be presented with another ending, and there also will be a third ending that will not be so obvious, it will be much harder to reach, this will separate players, who takes their time and pays attention to the environment and desire to explore everything possible, from players who just goes along the river.

Game will be split into 3 main pieces that will contain of 3 major areas:

1. Erebus, place where souls come first and then if meets demands, are being carried across the Styx by Charon.
2. Asphodel Mewdows, where common souls are living, this area is protected by Cerberus, Hades' pet.
3. Tartarus, the pit of the damned where all evil spirts are trapped, along with Titans.

First two areas will be linear in terms of storyline, however the third area or stage of the game will be different as you will decide what path to follow, one path may be not even linked with Tartarus, others may.

Wait, I don't know if I asked this but.. will you be able to talk with NPC's to affect the future of the plot? Like real dialogue choices with "only" certain NPC's. Along with consequences..

Contains possible spoilers!
I' would love to free the Titans and side with Kronos, possible bad ending? Very excited.
 
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Well I think I will not go into that, because if I did, it would simply take me too long to develope things. I will however and I already did with previous quest a big dialogue window, you ask questions, NPC answers. If you pick certain option, more options appears. So when you talk to NPC about certain things, this brings the quest. This method is not only more natural and realistic, but also enables player to know more about the character, plot and entire mythology. I will try to make more side quests that will not be so obvious though, so player will have to search for the little details.

This will not be like Iceborn where if you basically miss one well hidden item, you are doomed. I will reduce the bonuses of searching things to the minimum, so that only a small edge is given. However on harder difficulties, these small edges will appear essential.

What is more, I probably didn't mention it here. There will be achievements that player will be able to seek for, for example, complete all side quests, reach certain level, complete certain puzzle and so on. And the ultimate achievement of achieving everything possible in game, perhaps something bonus as reward could be done for this, will see, maybe even easter eggs. :)

Hehe, there will be one ending with Titans, one possible ending will involve them, at least what is in plans right now. :)

Just letting you know, guys, that few weeks ago Iceborn received a Director's Cut rating of 6/5. This is 18th map that achieved this rating among thousands, probably the best reward a map maker can get. :) I hope to bring another Director's Cut with this project and be the first one to have 2 maps as director's cuts, because this project will be seemingly better than Iceborn.
 
Well I think I will not go into that, because if I did, it would simply take me too long to develope things. I will however and I already did with previous quest a big dialogue window, you ask questions, NPC answers. If you pick certain option, more options appears. So when you talk to NPC about certain things, this brings the quest. This method is not only more natural and realistic, but also enables player to know more about the character, plot and entire mythology. I will try to make more side quests that will not be so obvious though, so player will have to search for the little details.

This will not be like Iceborn where if you basically miss one well hidden item, you are doomed. I will reduce the bonuses of searching things to the minimum, so that only a small edge is given. However on harder difficulties, these small edges will appear essential.

What is more, I probably didn't mention it here. There will be achievements that player will be able to seek for, for example, complete all side quests, reach certain level, complete certain puzzle and so on. And the ultimate achievement of achieving everything possible in game, perhaps something bonus as reward could be done for this, will see, maybe even easter eggs. :)

Hehe, there will be one ending with Titans, one possible ending will involve them, at least what is in plans right now. :)

Just letting you know, guys, that few weeks ago Iceborn received a Director's Cut rating of 6/5. This is 18th map that achieved this rating among thousands, probably the best reward a map maker can get. :) I hope to bring another Director's Cut with this project and be the first one to have 2 maps as director's cuts, because this project will be seemingly better than Iceborn.

Don't overdo it, just as they say: "you plan, God laughs".

First you should make it playable and then polish it and add various things. :)
 
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Hehe, true that. :)

Personally I really don't like going backwards and edits parts that are considered to be completed, because then balance may suffer. I like completing things and leaving it behind, moving forward. But certainly this will be different as I will have to go back and polish many things due to different game modes. What I do now, I make the game for all three modes, adjusting some parts for different mode, but mainly testing just for an easy mode. When game will be completed, I will turn to proper modes development, this way I will go back to polish things. :)
 
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it's "Molaf" not Malaf. Will you name the main god Zeuz in your game or what ?

I'm pretty sure you'll have to go backward quite a lot with this project my dear AP ;) Especially with the 3 endings things, that's pretty hard work with all the connections ect ..
 
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Oh, sorry about that, Molaf, typo, hehe. :) Yeah, you made that story so twisted so going backwards will be a must. :)

Thanks, Fang.

EDIT: Just finished Aegis shield. Golden shield with Medusa's head on it, it will have ability to turn enemies into stone. This shield will be very hard to obtain and it will be considered as one of top tier items. It will have to be crafted with several items and several conditions for crafting. I am also planning to add some particle emitters, perhaps even animation for snakes, but these are just plans, will see how it will turn out to be. :)

XND9yG6.png
 
Oh, sorry about that, Molaf, typo, hehe. :) Yeah, you made that story so twisted so going backwards will be a must. :)

Thanks, Fang.

EDIT: Just finished Aegis shield. Golden shield with Medusa's head on it, it will have ability to turn enemies into stone. This shield will be very hard to obtain and it will be considered as one of top tier items. It will have to be crafted with several items and several conditions for crafting. I am also planning to add some particle emitters, perhaps even animation for snakes, but these are just plans, will see how it will turn out to be. :)

XND9yG6.png


I can't help it but to notice that the whole shield is made of stone. While nobody ever built shields of stone because they generally were much of a burden to carry around with all that weight of tons. You could change the texture to make it more metallic.

Also, will Medusa be located in Underworld? Really?
Also snake animations is a must, without them they will looks odd.

Another question of the day: Will this have companions that follow you around and help you out? And will you have some sort of companion reputation/romance options regarding the approval?
 
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Umm, this is not stone at all, the texture itself is taken from metallic shield of Achilles that represent gold and it does look like gold in game. :)

No, Medusa will be partly located in the Underworld. She was however killed by Perseus according to the myth, so only her soul will be there, also trapped in a stone. Player will not kill Medusa for her head, because that was done by Perseus. Perseus may however give player Kibisis, the bag with Medusa's head, as certain reward, since the quest will have several rewards. Or perhaps Kibisis will not be given, perhaps Perseus will tell you how to get it, haven't decided yet. As for animations, I will see what I can do. :)

Yes, there will be companions. They will be completely triggered and will act on their own. At start your companion will be your wife, a spellcaster who will follow you, heal you, resurrect you, damage enemies and talk to you time to time. You may however get more companions as followers. One of first quest rewards will be one additional companion, there might be at least one in the future. Approval of the companions will be most likely decided by quests and your approach towards different endings of those quests. You will not be able to talk to them unless it is triggered so on purpose.
 
Umm, this is not stone at all, the texture itself is taken from metallic shield of Achilles that represent gold and it does look like gold in game. :)

No, Medusa will be partly located in the Underworld. She was however killed by Perseus according to the myth, so only her soul will be there, also trapped in a stone. Player will not kill Medusa for her head, because that was done by Perseus. Perseus may however give player Kibisis, the bag with Medusa's head, as certain reward, since the quest will have several rewards. Or perhaps Kibisis will not be given, perhaps Perseus will tell you how to get it, haven't decided yet. As for animations, I will see what I can do. :)

Yes, there will be companions. They will be completely triggered and will act on their own. At start your companion will be your wife, a spellcaster who will follow you, heal you, resurrect you, damage enemies and talk to you time to time. You may however get more companions as followers. One of first quest rewards will be one additional companion, there might be at least one in the future. Approval of the companions will be most likely decided by quests and your approach towards different endings of those quests. You will not be able to talk to them unless it is triggered so on purpose.

What happens if she dies? Also, a good question, will the player be able to choose sex? Male - female?
The shield also needs more bump mapping.

I hope Medusa's soul is gonna be beheaded, just like her state in near-death. :)

Edit: If the player chooses female character, they can't have a wife. So if you play male then it is gonna be a wife, if female it is gonna be a husband? This can also cause some questions for nontraditional couples, but they are not really necessary if the concept is gonna be fixed on - Male & Wife.
 
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If your wife dies, she will resurrect after a bunch of seconds. The resurrect ability will have a cooldown. If she becomes very low on health and the cooldown is not over yet, she will get a shield of invulnerability on her for some time, so by then cooldown surely ends. This shield will have very long cooldown. So when she dies again, cooldown of resurrection fires, when she is resurrected and dies very fast, she can no longer resurrect and this is the only defeat condition. You will not lose the game if you die, but you will if your wife dies, because if she survives, you survive, since she is able to resurrect you too.

No, you will be male and you will have a wife. These characters will have voice acting done, so repeating these voices with male and female will be quite messy.

Shield has a simple form, but it does have some bumping, it is not visible on the screenshot due to this angle. It is a little big bent from the edges to the middle, also around it you can see two rings, one outside and one in the middle, these rings are also bumped out and will be clearly visible in game. :)
I hope Medusa's soul is gonna be beheaded, just like her state in near-death. :)
Hehe, probably not. :ogre_hurrhurr:
 
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