[Altered Melee] blood and magic

[andreasaspenberg]

i have been working on a map that ports the gameplay from blood and magic to the warcraft 3 engine. here is an explanation of the gameplay: each player starts with a blood forge, a building and 2 basal golems. the basal golems transforms into other units next to buildings. what units they can become is dependent on the building. 4 basal golems is consumed to create a building but more can be created by the blood forge. there is 2 resources: mana and experience. mana is generated by obelisks but a little is generated without them. this map is the second blood and magic map i made and therefore the most recent.

 

[Morandir]

Confederate

At last! I found you! I want to resurraction this game - blood & mage too much! And I found your messages from internet gameFAQ. Yet many years i thinked about this. But without triggers it's impossible....so I just downloaded your map and will give a message after testing.

 

[Morandir]

Good job man!! You have done hardest work - transform 4 plasmagolems in to the structure! I thinked it's feature impossible... And simple transform into the correct warriors near the correct structure! Amazing!

So now it's need to fixing some bugs. For example now all creatures may transform near the building. Maybe this trigger can fixed by use option - only for worker?

Nice icons for creatures from original game!=)

The resurrection this game sound's like good project...maybe after good design for creatures and building's with use new models it's will be some popular...
Are you alone? Or we have more confederate's?=)

 

[TaShadan]

Have not tried it yet but i loved the original. Will give it a try as soon as possible.

 

[Morandir]

Some minor remarks (i understand - it's will be done later):

-the speed of mana accumulation by basalgolems very high and their movespeed and atackspeed high too. This allow to do golem rush very fast and not use another creature's. Maybe in future need fix their atack and move speed.

-I try to read some triggers function. So all golem's transformation's for all creature's 20 sec only? Will it changed?

-When the building is destroyed - it's create 1 special unit. Always 1 unit and always same unit (ex - paladin, gargoyley..). But in the original game number and type of unit was random (within special creatures of this building). And was small chance drop some artifact...

-Basal golems in addition has transformation into the wall. And the wall automatically connected (and their health increased) with another wall's. Will you add this feature? I think it's will be very usable for many tactic's for defend and attack.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i have tried to make it as true to the original as possible and that includes terrain effects. i dont however have any modeling skills so i cant create models myself. (i found most of my models on the hive workshop. i also used some fitting warcraft 3 models. some models i couldnt find however and most of those units is deactivated until i get fitting models.) the speed of the basal golem is correct and all units have the same attack speed in the original game. the transformation speed is so far based on mana cost. each point of mana spent= seconds of transformation. type of unit created from a destroyed building is always the same in the real game. (the number can be either 1 or 0 there. 2 for computer players.) the wall is rather difficult to create but if anybody have any ideas i might create it.

 

[salvadorc17]

I suggest you make a good presentation page for the map with some screenshoots.

 

[huy60vn]

Sorry but can you add some screenshots?
Please keep your thread has a nice looking. :\

 

[Morandir]

terrain effects with adding or removing speed/defense? Wow...me was only one old bad idea - do terrain object's like ground structure, but all unit's and buildings like air units...

the wall - maybe for begining do simply wall - small square building...without increasing health...
How about "suicide button" for unit's? Will you do this ability? Or with warcraft fast speed game it's not actually..

 

[andreasaspenberg]

the remove ability will be added some day and it should be easy to add as well but, it is quite a bit of work because i need to give the ability to all units. there is a major issue that drops a random player though that i want to get fixed first. if you want to help me follow this link.http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/could-someone-help-me-map-233304/

 

[Morandir]

the remove ability will be added some day and it should be easy to add as well but, it is quite a bit of work because i need to give the ability to all unitshttp://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/could-someone-help-me-map-233304/

I think you can add this ability only to blood forge. And player can cast it on any unit...so by this it's can be very tactical ability (if it will with some colddown time) because player must make a solve - what's unit need to destroy right now for more less expirience for enemy player.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

in the real game remove is done from the unit itself and not from the blood forge.

 

[Morandir]

in the real game remove is done from the unit itself and not from the blood forge.

Sure, i know it. But in war3 another game speed and another microcontrol. Any player will be able to remove all his units in time - and no expiriens for enemy...it's sounds like some cheat. I think the some abilities like that must be some adaptive for war3 features, no just copy from original B&M.

Hmmmm...when I use heal by cleric (it's work on zombie now, no correct) I take a 5 expirience for each hill. It's was your plan or just bug?
But no expirience for creating basal golems...
One more remark - for creating structure player must hase some mana too - 10 (for all buildings).
Left blood forges (up and down) never been under player control afte defeating.

On left side (in the middle) units can transform into the basalgolems without blood forge

 

[Morandir]

if you want to help me follow this link.http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/could-someone-help-me-map-233304/

sorry - I cannot give you help in trigger questions now. But I start to learn it

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i guess i will need to place some kind of restriction on remove that prevents it from being used in a group. i played blood and magic(the real game) to test something and i could remove my units quickly. those bugs will be solved. i dont however know how to make the creation of basal golems generate experience.

 

[Morandir]

i dont however know how to make the creation of basal golems generate experience.

Hm, but you did it with another units...how?
maybe some logic trigger - give a player resource if unit created...I will try to read abou this

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i have solved that problem in this new version.

 

[Morandir]

i have solved that problem in this new version.

Cool!

 

[Morandir]

I saw you start work with triggers for terrain effecrts?

I've tryed to do some icons for transformation in structure. Maybe you give me icons from creatures and I'll try to do DISBTN icons for correct display without green square's...

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i fixed it so that the griffin have a working disabled icon.(it was in the map but i wrote the address incorrectly.) blood and magic have its own icons for disabled and i created screen shots with them. here is a single of them but the rest is in this topic. http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/requests-341/icons-blood-magic-181503/ your icons is good but you forgot to add them to the buildings themselves but i will take care of that myself. please post the icons directly so that i can add them to the updated map.(they cant be exported from the map you posted with the filetype intact.)

 

[Morandir]

your icons is good but you forgot to add them to the buildings themselves but i will take care of that myself (they cant be exported from the map you posted with the filetype intact.)

Ok, I will try upload it soon. And I want try to do framework for icons. Good program - do you used it?
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tools-560/button-manager-v1-8-2-a-116280/

P/S On this website there are many interesting models too
http://xgm.ru/p/wc3/tag/models,units,daemons

Here. With and without frameworks

some better modification. Icons looks better like buttons.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

here is the updated map with your icons added. i am missing a few icons though like the warrior and the wizard.

 

[Morandir]

Nice =) So you havent warrior and wizard? (and gnome?) And how about artifacts icons?

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i have a gnome icon but it is broken for some reason. the terrain effect triggers are done however but, most of the map consists of open land. i havent finished the items yet so i will delay their icons until they are finished. it is more important to finish the units. here is the last version. it have a bit less leaks.

 

[Morandir]

Oh, man! I found a program for export sound from game and it's work for B&M!
http://www.mediafire.com/?8au5ct4xiwcdmc0

I'm testing it on my russian version game now.

Less leaks? What do you mean?) Need new models?
About terrain - one man from rus forum give advice, but I cannot understand:

"-collect all the units on the map in a group with a filter
-iterate through the group, we get the coordinates of each unit
-check the coordinates on the type of terrain
-compare the obtained with the database by type of units
if unit can not walk, then move to standing gap in the terrainthe previous point
If you can, then modify the bonuses and shtafy
You can even map ways to tie..."

 

[Morandir]

Some icons - Wizard, gnome, warrior. Some models maybe good for B&M units (me very like - zombie with one hand)) And sound of hits - wizard, archer,warrior, golem, guard and jaggernaut.
And some fun icon of Guard from latest mission abot immortal source=)

 

[andreasaspenberg]

seems that my ban have been lifted. i will test out the stuff you uploaded when i start working on maps again but, with eurovision song contest starting soon i might be too stressed to work until after it is started.

 

[Morandir]

Ok! I,m in small expidition now, very random mobile inet=) Recently I've done loadscreen and minimap picture. Will try to upload it soon

 

[Morandir]

loadscreen and minimap picture. =)

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i looked at it and that loading screen is decent but what did you want me to use minimap.tga for.

 

[Morandir]

minimap? Look at the map in game - when you select a map in warcraft menu - it's on right side...before the start game...

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i saw it after i read your post. that map is based on the web mountains so what would really help is to get the music from that level but, i cant ask for it directly because that is against the rules.

 

[Morandir]

I want to get all musics from game...and try to find the another program for extract it. On youtube i found only this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHequ97iW4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7bKTlERN08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-VkVSdPac

 

[andreasaspenberg]

one problem i have found during testing is that the attack and defense system doesnt work as intended. you are welcome to help me with that.

 

[Morandir]

In the original game it was like: 1 defense=-1attack? (ex. 8 attack/2 defense=6 attack?)

 

[Morandir]

maybe good for metapod after some edit

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i know how it works in the original game but, my problem is to transfer that gameplay to my warcraft 3 map correctly. i just dont have enough knowledge about how the weapons and armor in warcraft 3 works. another issue i have found is that i cant figure out how to block terrain to specific units.(the speed reduction, armor reduction and armor increase works though. i havent however added terrain after i expanded the map so those terrains are only on the original part of the map.) dont worry about terrain effects, i have that under control. (guess i better get to work on adding more soon.) apologies for long post.

 

[Morandir]

Yeah - block terrain it's not a simple question...

 

[Morandir]

-compare the obtained with the database by type of units
if unit can not walk, then move to standing gap in the terrainthe previous point
If you can, then modify the bonuses and shtafy
You can even map ways to tie..."

some advice from rus forum but i cannot understading this. Maybe ask for more detailed infromation?

Hm - about defense system. Maybe it will more simple if the unit will havn't any armor, but special passive ability - "reduce damage by X".

 

[andreasaspenberg]

the problem with that defense system suggestion is that it will change the defense from being on the interface to not being on the interface. (in the real blood and magic it is on the interface.) the idea could however work for a partial protection system. i do however believe that it is possible to get the defense system working through the warcraft 3 attack and defense system but i dont fully understand that. your suggestion for the movement system gave me something i can work with.(possibly.)

 

[andreasaspenberg]

here is the latest version. i have corrected some broken paths and added some more regions. i also made the paladin unable to walk on broken land. some problems still remains though. i still cant figure out how to make the basal golem transform into obelisk when it stops moving. i still need some building models and some unit models. the obelisk model is permanent though. the warcraft 3 crypt looks like the blood and magic crypt that is in certain levels.

 

[Morandir]

Ok! Sorry for silence - seldom connect to internet. I try to download it tonight

 

[andreasaspenberg]

here is the latest version of the map with sounds and icons added.(those posted earlier.)

 

[Morandir]

hm - I heared sound when attack metapod) And I found funny bug - when metapod destroyed - it's not stop the creation of unit - trigger still working and produced unit on this place)
In think that changing the defense system hardest work...try to found articles about this.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i have found a solution already but i didnt know about that bug until you reported it so it will take some time to alter all of the unit triggers to fix the bug for every unit.(i fixed it for the gnome.) (i added an if statement to check if the unit is still alive.) here is the fixed map.

 

[Morandir]

Fuck yeah! I found a midi-pack music form B&M! And converter midi to mp3. In result not a full similarity with original (need right pack music tools for converter), but very close.

Maybe some this models can be useful

Hm..I found a skill model - restore mana and health inside editor. It's look something like blood forge, if edit it more...

 

[andreasaspenberg]

here is a version with some more bug fixes but the gnome icon you provided isnt working. (the btn icon that is, the disbtn icon work.)

 

[Morandir]

Hm..it's very strange..some bug with alpha-channel...here map with icon and new resaved icon - it's worked on my warcraft now..

Can I do some advertising for your map (description and link on this website) on xgm.ru and vk.com (special group for World Editor). Maybe somebody with good skills wish to enjoy...

 

[andreasaspenberg]

go right ahead. i am running the map on both battle.net and garena to show it off and teach people how to play. in the new version of the map you posted the icon works but i am still missing the cost icon.(i am using icons with costs shown on them for transformation abilities.)

 

[Morandir]

Here - and must work it correct)