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[Campaign] Centaur Flamecaller Hero

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For a new campaign I'm creating there is a playable Centaur faction and I was looking for some feedback on one of the Heroes.

Flame Burst: Basically flame strick expect the damage at first is low but has deadly damage over time

Inner Flame: Burns a target inside out over time causing them to take damage every second and hinder their speed. If they die with this debuff up to 4 lava elementals will spawn (amount and type depends on spell level)

Soul Scorch: Burns the soul of a target making them move sluggish and deal no damage with a normal attack. They take decent damage over time for a duration depending on the level, however, spell costs a decent chunk on mana

That's it, for now, wanted some feedback on the first 3 spells of the units. Levels go up to 4 as of now and will add the other abilities later for feedback
 
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What kind of campaign. Imo "do damage over time to enemies" as a theme only gets you so far. The hero needs an identity that shows it's strengths and weaknesses. Is it int, agi, or str? A caster like Lich or melee beefcake like Mountain King?

The types of abilities that might make sense really depends on what kind of maps it shows up in. Is this melee, altered melee, a campaign level that's like a hero defense, etc.? I assume just regular melee with +1 faction based on your description. What makes the Centaur faction unique, what are their tactics, are they high cost/hp/damage or low cost/hp/damage units? What other Centaur heroes do you have?

Imo 2 and 3 are way too similar. I assume you're not planning on giving it a passive ultimate, and if so 4 activated abilities is a lot. Especially in melee, when you want to be micro-ing your army not just keeping 3 different DoTs up on the enemy heroes.e

Here's an idea to replace skill 3 but kind of give the same functionality as a more passive ability:
EarthshatterThe hero's attacks are so stromg they have a X% chance to strike through their target and create a miniature earthquake which slows nearby enemy movement and attack speed by Y% (small amount like 10-15%) for Z seconds.

This slow stacks up to N times per unit. Attacks that kill enemies always proc this effect.
On hit like bash but instead of a stun it casts a no-damage thunderclap on the location of the target. If you kill an enemy unit with the hero's attack you get one on that attack automatically.

The stacking is to make the debuff meaningful and encourage the hero to chase down low hp targets. The slow obviously helps keep enemies in your flame strike longer.
 
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Centaur in the campaign are low health high attack units that cost a decent bit with a couple of decent aoes spread through them. I can see 3rd spell being a lot similar so I'll change that. I'll see what I'll change it to definitely will add a passive to it now just not 100% what it will be like.
4 elementals might be a bit much, especially if they're the self-replicating kind. Probably better off with a single one.
Have the same model but are a bit different than that one so they don't self-replicate. Still can see your point so once they are done I'll see if they are a bit to powerful or not
 
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Centaur race.
Earth shamans plains focussed, Using mostly Axes and bows. high movement speed due to their 4 legs. They have a mongol horde type of Yurts as a nomad tribe.

Axe swings, String up bows.

Cauterisation type of healing. Equalizer choose 1 unit set health to all units in AoE.

You're choosing to have basically 2 dots on a hero (i'd advise against it)
but what works with dots is to delay the enemy from moving.
Summoning a rock wall (energizes well with AoE Flame Strikes) as well and it can temporally cut of an exit. But it can also Work with other skills on the race.

Character Design: Theme, Synergy with race, Control, "leadership aura" (healing wave on shammy kinda works like this as well.

Those are the things you should take into mind to "balance" and figure out what direction your design might lack.
 
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Changed the ailities around a bit by removing that second dot that dosen't create minions. Working out a supplement for it rn have experimented with a few things like attack dong small aoe or a bash like passive, rn working out to see if a thorns like aura would work out any suggestions are welcome though. Will experiment with your guys ideas as well since I may add another abilitie bassed on how long campaign ends up being
 

Kyrbi0

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I wish I had the time to properly comment here, as I love both Hero Design generally and Deolrin's great Flamecaller model specifically. :< But here are some quickies:

~~~

First & Foremost you must needs answer the questions that Pyrogasm laid out for you; we really won't be able to help you in any meaningful way without knowing:
Pyrogasm said:
What kind of campaign. ...
The types of abilities that might make sense really depends on what kind of maps it shows up in. Is this melee, altered melee, a campaign level that's like a hero defense, etc.?...
and
Pyrogasm said:
... The hero needs an identity that shows it's strengths and weaknesses. Is it int, agi, or str? A caster like Lich or melee beefcake like Mountain King?...

In lieu of that information, all I can really say are generalities:
- Focus on nailing down a 'Function' (Gameplay Role, mechanics) and then finding 'Form' to fit (Thematics, Aesthetics).
- - Specifically, It's fun to slap a bunch of "fire fire fire" spells on a guy & call it a day, but the Better Path in (Hero) design is to ensure the abilities match the Function first (accomplishing some end, fulfilling a Role); Form (the aesthetics/thematics) can always be adjusted appropriately.

- Probably oughta provide at least a link to the model in question, if not pipe in a screenshot. Not only does it liven up your first post, but since so much of this is sorta dependent on "what the guy looks/acts like", it'll help us see what you see in design.
- - A good example has to do with how I plan on designing a Hero based off of this model: if you'll notice the Centaur Flamecaller has these awexome chains over his eyes, making him blind (more or less). Personally, I thought it would be a great idea to play off of this, and make him like a Centaur version of the Far Seer; 'able to see what others cannot, leading his people to safety'. I actually named him "Oracle" instead, and gave him abilities which focus on Fire being used Supportively rather than Offensively. Fire, after all, not only hurts, but it provides light and warmth. It cooks our food, it protects us from predators, it orients & ennobles us through our mastery of it. (This was also done in part to force myself to be more creative than "fire = damage")

- Heroes should be designed in such a way that they can do a few things well, but not one thing too well, nor too many things well. Don't cover all your Heroes' weaknesses... But nor should you hyper-specialize your Hero.
- - Specifically, as people have already pointed out en masse, you've got a lot of Damage going on. Now, it's not unheard of; the Mountain King has 2(.5) Damage Dealing abilities... Even later/more complex Heroes like the Firelord essentially have 2 abilities that deal damage (over time).
However you've got 3 abilities that all deal DoT, and 2 of them are (almost literally) identical. I would highly suggest considering some alternatives (perhaps even something akin to what I said I'm doing (see above)).

~~

Final thought for the most recent conversation: I feel like Centaurs would have high HP compared to other races (man + horse; horses alone are sturdy creatures).

Good luck!
 
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Forgot to answer those questions. Some of the campaign maps hes in would be like altered melee or normal melee. However he will also be in some dungeon run like levels, defense map and most likely a couple of other different types. Its a intellect hero that focuses on more single target and spawn (fire elemental) has a aoe that plays into the strengths of another centaur hero. I designed the Centaur more on a basses of them being quite brutal and not caring for their defenses as much. If I do that mass blink I might give it to the next Centaur hero and possibly make a movement speeds boost or a armor aura fitting the fire can kill and protect
 

Kyrbi0

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So... what?

I get that a campaign has a variety of different kinds of maps. But that's not as important as the overall 'project' type. Is it a Hero Arena? A Dota-style "MOBA"? A Footman War? A Dungeon Crawler? Orrrr is it essentially similar to/the same as the standard/melee/ladder game/campaign (with a custom (Centaur) race similar to the existing 4 standard/melee/ladder factions)?

INT hero, alright, that makes sense. But "focuses more on single target & spawn has a aoe that synergizes with another Hero"... I'm afraid I don't quite follow. That's a bit all over.
Might also help us to know a little about the other Hero (if this one is supposed to synergize with him).
 
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The campaign is similar to the base campaigns Blizz made. The hero is basically a support hero. It focuses on spawning fire elementals and then has some extra support for nearby units with an aura. Hopefully, that makes more sense. Another hero was just gonna synergize with this heroes flamestrike since the unique flamestrike this hero uses does a lot of damage over time while in the flame strike area.
 

Kyrbi0

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OK, that helps. The part your missing, that we're looking for, that I'll go ahead & assume, is that you are making a custom Race that is similar to/in the same style as the standard/ladder/melee Races (Alliance, Horde, Scourge, Sentinels). That will mean certain things (especially if you want the race to exist separate from the campaign at all, as well).

I would highly suggest checking out this invaluable resource to custom race creation, which itself links to my personal favorite.

~~~

Some of the stuff that's important to "5th Race Addition" modding is to recognize that the game doesn't generally re-use stuff. Abilities mostly, but units, buildings, heroes, most upgrades, most names; each race is unique with creative ways of gathering resources, constructing buildings, and defending themselves.

What that means for this guy is that I would suggest not having any Hero abilities that are simply copies of other abilities. Summon Lava Spawn, Flame Strike, etc. While there are many abilities that can be similar (many of the "generic" Summon abilities are basically the same, so that's fine; abilities like Drunken Brawler & Spiked Carapace are essentially combinations of other abilities, so there's some room there), and there are some very few exceptions (inter-racially (e.g. Backpack), & intra-racially (e.g. Cannibalize, Shadowmeld, etc)), there's basically no overlap otherwise.

~~~

The hero is basically a support hero. It focuses on spawning fire elementals and then has some extra support for nearby units with an aura.
The first part is the most important part. The 2nd bit is really more specific than "Role", but it does help in that you want to make sure there's a Summon & an Aura.

However, there's a pretty wide range of Support heroes; there's Ranged Combat Support (PotM, Dark Ranger), Offensive Support (Far Seer, Archmage, Lich), Melee Combat Support (Paladin)... Etc.

So assuming you want him to be kind of the generic "ranged support" like the Archmage or Far Seer, the question becomes whether you want him to be more offensive, more defensive, or something else.

Based on what you're saying about how he uses fire magicks, I'd say it sounds like you want him to be more offensively-oriented. Even so, I wouldn't have more than 2 Direct Damage/Damage-over-Time abilities.

It's a bit tricky, given that the standard game already has heroes like the Pit Lord (Rain of Fire), the Demon Hunter (Immolation), and of course the Firelord. But there should still be plenty of room for interesting ideas, and best of all; as of the latest patch (1.30), Buffs Can Stack! (What that means for you is that you can modify existing abilities & they'll 'play nice' with the original versions, which hasn't been true for the last... ever in modding xD)

~~~

I'd suggest something along these lines, given all the above & what you've told me, I might say:
- The Summon you asked for - Start with generic "summon X", but perhaps come up with some interesting twist or an interesting ability to give it. Consider some of the small remaining 'mythological' ground untapped by Blizzard & find an interesting fire-aligned magical creature; I would suggest the Salamander (like a regular Salamander but fiery & stuff, maybe with sticky/gooey flames?)
- The Aura you asked for - Come up with something simple (like a combination of existing ones; maybe "+Damage & +Move Speed", or "+Attack Speed"... Or something unique & crazy like "every allied unit that dies with this Aura EXPLODES dealing Damage in an AoE". Who knows? Something supportive but still offensive, is the idea, and not too strong.
- The Damage - You can do something simple like a Firebolt or a Bouncing Fireball or something, but I'm gonna suggest you instead go with his Ultimate & create some crazy-huge destructive fireball or explosion or waves of fire... Call it "Cataclysm" and make an ability worthy of that name. ; )
- The Rest - An idea I like is Lightning Shield; no Hero has that ability & if you modify it sufficiently, it'll not only look different enough, but it's a neat combination of "dealing damage" & "supporting". Give it Fire SFX, and use the MarkOfChaos.mdx SFX on cast, and buff the damage per level (and/or the manacost/cooldown to allow him to put it on more dudes). You could potentially (with triggers) give armor to the unit, but that's just an option.

There are plenty of other ways to make this guy, but that's my take on it (& I've got to go anyway). Overall it would look like:

HERO
(I) - Centaur Flamecaller

FORM
Wizened centaur shaman, aligned with the violent elemental spirits of fire

FUNCTION
Offensive support; Mystical hero, adept at damaging enemies and empowering his allies.

ABILITIES
Searing Shield

-
Summon "Salamander"

-
"Igneous/Primal/?" Aura

-
Cataclysm

Good luck!
 
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The damage over time thing and summon were combined together like parasite. Basically, the insides would be burnt up and upon death, a fire elemental would explode out (different to normal fire elementals) damage one I've been looking at for a bit and might actually change it possibly to a passive attack where the main attack will bounce up to x amount of targets. X = to level. The race ingame have several barrens creatures on their side like thunder lizards so I could potentially give the flamecaller and ability to transfer their thunder lizards into salamanders. Lightning shield like thing is a good idea as well if I do that I'll see if I can change the damage to only affect enemies. As of making this melee playable, I am considering it once I finish the campaign.
 
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Scorching Hooves: Target buff gets max movement speed every step he takes leaves a trail of blazing fire behind. The fire last 5s and deals 35 dmg per second. might work in favor of Flamestrike and albeit a bit more interesting it would kinda require some bulk to work as well. Since you're character has to stand next to another character to actually leave a trail of fire in the area enemies are standing since it's "melee" range type of spell.
 
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Forced March (Active): All units in the AoE have maxed movement speed, but lose HP every second until the effect ends.

Parthian Shot (Active): Targets an enemy. Turns the hero 180 degrees from the target and makes him Move a distance in that direction, firing a powerful arrow at the target.
* Alternately, passively fires an arrow with X cooldown at a enemy within 135-225 degrees of the hero's facing.

Circle Strafe (Channeling): Targets an enemy. The caster is ordered to Move in a circle around the target, firing arrows at the target all the while. Gains 50% evasion but cannot be given other orders, Evasion is removed if the spell is interrupted.
 

Kyrbi0

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Forced March (Active): All units in the AoE have maxed movement speed, but lose HP every second until the effect ends.

Parthian Shot (Active): Targets an enemy. Turns the hero 180 degrees from the target and makes him Move a distance in that direction, firing a powerful arrow at the target.
* Alternately, passively fires an arrow with X cooldown at a enemy within 135-225 degrees of the hero's facing.

Circle Strafe (Channeling): Targets an enemy. The caster is ordered to Move in a circle around the target, firing arrows at the target all the while. Gains 50% evasion but cannot be given other orders, Evasion is removed if the spell is interrupted.
That first one is pretty dang brilliant.

The other two... Are those even feasible (in Wc3)?
 
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Forced March (Active): All units in the AoE have maxed movement speed, but lose HP every second until the effect ends.

Parthian Shot (Active): Targets an enemy. Turns the hero 180 degrees from the target and makes him Move a distance in that direction, firing a powerful arrow at the target.
* Alternately, passively fires an arrow with X cooldown at a enemy within 135-225 degrees of the hero's facing.

Circle Strafe (Channeling): Targets an enemy. The caster is ordered to Move in a circle around the target, firing arrows at the target all the while. Gains 50% evasion but cannot be given other orders, Evasion is removed if the spell is interrupted.
quite like those, will deffnietly have to contact someone about helping me with programing that
 
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If it has a bone to turn that way it can probably be locked with Animation - Lock Unit's Head to face Unit, offset by (0.00, 0.00, 90.00), but I'm not sure the centaur models have a torso bone, they might just have heads.
 
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The trigger allows you to use heads and chests, but chests doesn't seem to apply to all units. For instance, it worked with a knight and a blood mage (and looks deeply disturbing), but not a centaur or a golem.

Maybe if you use a nonstandard centaur model, you can make sure it has a chest bone.
 
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