8 mb at 1.24?

[Ricardo Irving]

Lol, is this actually true? Anyway, Blizzard should release a patch: One that will allow you to type a link that will send you to a website, like the ads in B.Net. This will allow you to get some people to download it, tudar! Faster DL .

 

[Super-Sheep]

Epic war links arent impossible to copy. Its not hard to remember 6 numbers.

www,epicwar,com/maps/123456

 

[Angry_Bovine]

Forget about DL over battle.net, when's the last time you've dled something like DOTA over it?

Probably, if 8 mb is instated, then it'd be everyone's best interest to upload large maps (3 mb+) to a site so that it makes downloading easy and convenient.

 

[PurplePoot]

I don't play DotA, and every other map you download online as it doesn't have enough of a player base to warrant downloading elsewhere.

 

[Linaze]

I think 4mb's is more than enough, I'd hate to see Naruto map with even more imports.

 

[PurplePoot]

And more spelpax.

 

[I need a name]

I think for those slow downloaders out there, there should be a limit YOU can set for map size. In battle.net next to filter you type in a # and only maps with that size (mb) or lower will show up on the join-able games list.

 

[AKAIMAX]

I agree. Should be like in single-player: unlimited.

Single Player is unlimited and for some reason, dota has all the imported SLK and noteplad files for custom abilities, triggers, etc.

 

[PurplePoot]

I think for those slow downloaders out there, there should be a limit YOU can set for map size. In battle.net next to filter you type in a # and only maps with that size (mb) or lower will show up on the join-able games list.

I repeat.

A) Time has shown that you really don't need more than 2-3mb for a custom game to have a quite different atmosphere.

B) This would only cause newbs to spam such maps, and I really don't want to see all the perfectly fine and good-looking maps disappear because people decide spamming imported content when it's unnecessary is a better idea.

 

[Doron]

(prepares to be flamed)

My thought is that, if people want to use 8mb, let em. No one will stay for to download it anyway. Those with faster internet, whoop-dee-doo for them, they'll download and probably stay. The max right now takes a long time to download, and I'm not willing to wait. If this is released, it will help maps that are downloaded off sites, (DotA...) not so much in-game.

 

[ShadowFlare]

Update:
On the release of SCII the server of Battle.net will be upgraded. This is becuase SCII maps will be bigger. As so they also upgrade the DL speeds.
I think 8mb is perfect. Helps out my Orpg a lot becuase of the imports. Not ridiculus imports but just A lot.

My Orpg is so far 3.5mb and ppl download it fine when I host. About 30seconds and 2 ppl dl at a time.

And my Internet speed is only average cable internet speed.

I really believe 8mb is a good thing:

More creativity
More models. (Which isn't a bad thing)
Better Gameplay overall.

Cons: NONE, I can't see one single reason why this is going to be a bad thing. With the new SCII coming out and the server upgrade to dl a 8mb map would be as the same as dling a 4mb map.

Also if everyone is worried about the noobs making maps and hosting them. Ppl won't play them and the map will go dead. Get over it and if you don't like it, Dont play it. That simple.

 

[Dr Super Good]

For the last time.... The bnet server does not restrict DL rates as it does not even handle them... It is you in a peer to peer connection as the host or people who can host who transfer the map. Thus why battlenet is free and not a pay service.

On bots like ghost one you can DL a 4 MB map in 10 seconds, yes 10 seconds as I have seen download rates of past 400 KB/sec and this is on battlenet. A lot of people blame battlenet for slow DL speeds when they should blame ignorance (they are ignorant). Firstly a lot of hosts like me use ADSL, which although I get good DL rates of upto 600+ KB/sec at times (peeks), I get atmost 50 KB/sec upload, which logically also peeks and is usually a lot lower. Thus downloading from me takes forages on battlenet because I am slow upload wise and a lot of people do not notice that its them not bnet. Secondly Bnet has certain filters and settings, ghost one as a bot interfaces with battlenet at a low leve to work so can more finely manipulate battlenet. Battlenet or your WC3 client usually I think clamps all DLs to atmost a certain rate so they are slower than they can be, and thus why DL rates are constant and do not fluctuate. The same goes for ingame lag as well, a lot of local games with close by people could lag a lot less if they had their generic delay variable and not static.

In my opinion 8 MB will not hurt, neithor will having no limate at all if set up properly, however most small maps really do not need it.

Also Blizzard should hurry up with patch 1.24, at this rate it will never be out... They promised it weeks ago.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Maybe not 8Mb, but more space is always nice.

 

[AKAIMAX]

Why do people not want 8mb? I don't see the problem. If you only needed like 5mb for map size, that doesn't mean that other people won't need any more than you. All maps are different.

 

[PurplePoot]

Beyond the lack of understanding as to how battle.net networking works, giving more map size restricts creativity rather than enhancing it. Ever heard of constraints? Spamming more imports is not creativity.

 

[AKAIMAX]

That is true but there aren't going to be hosted spammed imported games. Most maps can't make game play better and funner do to the limit. No one is going to host spammed imported models. And your looking at it all negatively. How about you look at it positively too? Maps will have better interface, they will all have different feel's of gameplay, more room for creating better gameplay, abilities, units. Imports will be added which isn't a bad thing. Having imports with good gameplay makes a map really cool with a much different and better feeling than the same old wc3. And don't you ever get bored of the same old wc3 models in every map? How about we see something new? And creativity in models will be expanded since people can now make better models.

 

[~Void~]

Unlimited space would be fine. I just wouldn't play the huge maps if they sucked.

 

[Shad0wyone]

8mb would be awesome for many, but only for ORPGs or the AoSs with a TON of heroes, but I don't want to see people putting random stuff into their maps "just 'cause". Fills up map space that could be used for more useful stuff, but you can't realistically fill that up in WC3 with useful stuff like triggers, but in SC2, who knows? Like others have said, if yes, great, if not, it's not a big deal.

 

[PurplePoot]

Well, for example, I've made games that are set in a realistic or futuristic universe and kept them at a meg or two maximum (usually closer to, or even under, one meg). People really overestimate how much space you need if you're actually competent at managing it, which should be due to download times and not due to trying to cram the maximum amount of imports into the file size limit.

 

[~Void~]

Well, for example, I've made games that are set in a realistic or futuristic universe and kept them at a meg or two maximum (usually closer to, or even under, one meg). People really overestimate how much space you need if you're actually competent at managing it, which should be due to download times and not due to trying to cram the maximum amount of imports into the file size limit.

Ok, but why do we need a limit? So what, more people make stupid maps? No. More people won't make stupid maps. The stupid maps will just be easier to identify.

 

[Eleandor]

This old "hands of the modders" argument is lame, as good maps tend not to have problems with a 4mb limit, let alone 8.

How's it lame? It contains more truth than anything you have said.

Let's make a free association:
A painter gets 8m² to paint on.

- He can still decide to paint on 2m² and remove the remaining
- Those specific painters who decide to paint on the whole 8m² will have transportation troubles, but those can be overcome. Download off a website, use high-transfer-rate bots, or simply be patient. If it's a good map, people will play it regardless of the filesize and are more likely to like it even more if it's aesthetically pleasing.
- Nobody forces other painters to paint on 8m² because they can.
- Having more space to paint on in no way limits a user's creativity. 8mb imports will not be the cause of narutards, they'll be here ANYWAY.

No offence intended, but your arguments are purple poop.

 

[PurplePoot]

Ok, but why do we need a limit? So what, more people make stupid maps? No. More people won't make stupid maps. The stupid maps will just be easier to identify.

I suspect the map size will drift upwards as the limit does. If not, it won't affect me much, but really, what do you want to do so desperately in a map that can't be done in 4 meg? I don't think most people realize just how much space you have in 4 meg.

 

[Eleandor]

4mb is used faster than you think. I'd estimate a large map (large rpg's, for example) to have:
500 kb of triggering
1500 kb of objects & terrain
That leaves less than 2 mb (you can't hit 4mb precisely) for imports. As soon as you use 2 or 3 models that require textures too, you're at the limit before you know it. And typically, rpg's will have the most imports.

Something I've been working on for a long time (and also stopped working on many times) is a polished melee map with additional races. If you want to make a quality map with custom races, you can't stick with using neutral buildings or recoloured models. You simply need custom models.
With 3 new naga heroes, 2 buildings and 2 new naga units, I got 500 kb on naga imports.
The models for my gnoll race are near 1 mb.
More races will quickly add-up. And I don't want to make yet another "custom races" map that uses the same models for 10 different races. A "Merchant Camp" simply doesn't fit it a naga base.

 

[PurplePoot]

I think you really underestimate how good MPQ compression is, especially when you optimize files (MPQ Squish and such) beforehand.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Beyond the lack of understanding as to how battle.net networking works, giving more map size restricts creativity rather than enhancing it. Ever heard of constraints? Spamming more imports is not creativity.

How constraints allows more creativity? This makes no sense to me. More things are avalaible, more you are able to produce.

 

[PurplePoot]

Because it forces you to make up something cool that also fits a set of parameters which make it useful, rather than just going off somewhere random, doing something most likely cliche without realizing it, and failing.

It seems counterintuitive, and I used to think it was bullshit, but I've had it proven to me.

 

[Eleandor]

I think you really underestimate how good MPQ compression is, especially when you optimize files (MPQ Squish and such) beforehand.

When stuff is optimized, compression rates decrease dramatically. The average ratio is 50%. With 1.5 mb on imports, that is 3 mb on your hard disk. A "worker" model including all of its animations (gold walk, lumber walk, default walk, gold stand, default stand, lumber stand, and many more) easily makes 500 kb. Add in a custom texture, maybe two, of 100 kb (after a reasonable compression of 75%) and it's 600 kb for 1 model. 300 kb after MPQ compression. Let's be optimistic and say 1 model only uses 100 kb after compression (and honestly, that IS optimistic), that's only 15 custom models you can use in your map.

Your average TD won't need 4 mb. But there are plenty of maps that need custom models. Regardless of your opinion on sci-fi mods in warcraft 3, sci-fi maps simply need the models. Just to name 1 obvious example. And then most sci-fi maps have such a high compression-rate that the textures look even worse than doom.