1.24's effect on Maps and Spells

[PurplePoot]

With 1.24 coming out sooner or later, there will need to be some changes to the maps and spells sections. Naturally, incompatible maps and spells will need removal, but the two sections will handle it differently:

In maps, it will be primarily a user based initiative—please report any maps you attempt to play that do not work with the new patch via the Maps Moderation Forum or the Report Post feature. We may additionally write a script which attempts to find such maps, but this is not guaranteed.

In spells, the entire section will be purged, both due to the high volume using 1.24-incompatible code and that there will be a simultaneous tightening of the spell rules. The purge will work (when it comes about) by the spell's uploader having two weeks to confirm their resource's acceptability under the new rules—at the end of this period, all resources not marked with this will be deleted. After this point, users are encouraged to report any resources which still do not conform to the rules but whose authors kept them anyways. A news announcement will be posted when the purge (that is, the two-week counter) begins.

The new spell rules will come into effect as of the release of 1.24, but please do not post spells incompatible with them even before that. The changes will be:

• 1.24-incompatible spells will not be acceptable.
• Spells requiring WEU, UMSWE, or any other third party GUI modification will not be acceptable.
• Spells must be fully multiinstanceable, and done so competently (IE no "indexing systems" which just populate a massive array and count upwards until they hit a maximum, then restarting from the first possible value regardless of whether the position is taken).
• Spells not created by the submitter will be rejected regardless of permission.

 

[redmarine]

Oh well. This has to be done anyway.

 

[Linaze]

To bad there won't be a purge in the map section, but certainly good things for the map section.

 

[Asomath]

Haha, it would be better if people knew their maps were crap before uploading them.

Well, it sounds interesting either way.

~Asomath

 

[redmarine]

Why not purge the map section while we're at it? Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Linaze]

Ralle didn't want that.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

Sounds great Purp. I'm excited to know that the quality of our resources will begin increase, rather than decrease, the older that WC3 gets.

 

[PurgeandFire]

Hopefully this will shorten the never-ending line of "Pending" spells. =P

 

[Devine]

Sounds great!
I also like the script initiative. Let's hope we're getting it.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The maps will be purged manually / via scripts.
The spell section will be totally purged. Even if the spell will work, as long as the author does not press the axcept comfirmation it will be deleted.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Most maps use GUI, and I can assure you 1.24 won't fuck up GUI.

 

[Elven Spellmake]

Spells requiring WEU, UMSWE, or any other third party GUI modification will not be acceptable.

As I don't know if JNGP is GUI or not, having never used it. Will spells using this be accepted still?

Personally I don't get all this JNGP stuffs, especially as it apparently requires you to install somthing...

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

I'm sure anything JASS will still be allowed.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

As I don't know if JNGP is GUI or not, having never used it. Will spells using this be accepted still?

Personally I don't get all this JNGP stuffs, especially as it apparently requires you to install somthing...

Jass New Gen Pack

I'll let you figure the rest out.

 

[Deaod]

JNGP includes a UMSWE package.

 

[M4stah]

I was wondering whether the MUI rule counts for systems related to heroes, like inventory stuff and so

 

[Zombie]

Spells not created by the submitter will be rejected regardless of permission.

Even if it's of approvable quality right away?

 

[Eleandor]

Spells requiring WEU, UMSWE, or any other third party GUI modification will not be acceptable.

What's this kind of stupid rule? Next thing you do is prohibitting vjass because it requires jasshelper?

 

[Ranger21]

When 1.24 officialy out, i will update my map.

(IE no "indexing systems" which just populate a massive array and count upwards until they hit a maximum, then restarting from the first possible value regardless of whether the position is taken).

SPELLS ON STRUCTS DOESN"T ACCEPTABLE?

 

[Mage_Goo]

1.24-incompatible spells will not be acceptable.

How can I know the spell is compatible with 1.24 or not?

Spells must be fully multiinstanceable, and done so competently (IE no "indexing systems" which just populate a massive array and count upwards until they hit a maximum, then restarting from the first possible value regardless of whether the position is taken).

Something like this?

• Actions
  • Set Integer = (Integer + 1)
  • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
    • If - Conditions
      • Integer Greater than <Some Number>
    • Then - Actions
      • Set Integer = 0
    • Else - Actions
  • Set Spell_Variable[Integer] = <Something>

other Indexing System is allowed, am I right?

And, can somebody give me link to download patch 1.24? Is JNGP compatible with that?

 

[Paladon]

and done so competently (IE no "indexing systems" which just populate a massive array and count upwards until they hit a maximum, then restarting from the first possible value regardless of whether the position is taken).

Since the indexing techniques used in popular "refresh" quite fast, there are no regular GUI spells affected with any new kind of rule.

 

[Elven Spellmake]

Jass New Gen Pack

I'll let you figure the rest out.

I know what it stands for and I understand that it adds a more C++ like structure to the coding, I was just wondering if spells written under that would still be accepted.

 

[redmarine]

Also GUI Triggers do not become incompatible with version 1.24. Only scripts.

 

[Paladon]

As said, no changes for regular GUI submissions.

 

[Ranger21]

Im again ask -
SPELLS ON STRUCTS DOES'NT ACCEPTABLE?

Structs method using indexing

If these spells does'nt acceptable... it will be lol

HashTable just faster

 

[Deaod]

Hashtables are not faster than arrays (and they never will be).
And the indexing algorithm of structs is minimal, so structs will still be allowed.

 

[Paladon]

What's about something like this?
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...kingz-v1-0-a-121233/?prev=d=list&r=20&u=kingz

Would it still be approved then?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Basically, any third party form of GUI will not be axcepted. Any GUI using stupid index systems with O(n) efficency or unnescescary index slot usage will not be axcepted as you can use hashtables which are only slightly slower than array handle index lookups to store stuff. Thus with GUI, you can still use arrays to hold data, but they must be used efficenly (no variable[variable[12]]) crap that I see so many spells do nowdays.

You can attach values to units and other objects using hashtables now, so instead of looping from 1 to 100 for your spell in all indexes it uses, you could simply enum through a group holding all units casting the spell and get their array index via hashtables ofthe unit itself. If you do not care about speed, you do not even need variable arrays and could run the whole thing off hashtables.

vJASS will still be allowed, so will structs as they are not stupid index systems. Unlike most of you believe, what people do in GUI is generally not how structs work. Structs have static indexes until they are destroyed and recycle indexes like below.

create struct returns 1
create struct returns 2
destroy struct 1
create struct returns 1
create struct returns 3
etc...

A lot of GUI systems do not have this feature and so clog up large numbers of indexes and even can leak handle indexes until recast 100s of times.

 

[Yixx]

So basically GUI spells that use Paladon's indexing system are not allowed? Paladon's indexing system uses smart loop and stops the loop when all is over (as good vJass spells do also), but it does not recycle the instances. Though when you use it well, you check with a boolean, or real comparison if the instance is still running, if not, it is immediately going to the next one,,

It still is quite a good indexing system, but recycling in GUI is way harder then in vJass, in vJass you move the struct variable to the destroyed spot,, in GUI, you have to move every variable you use to the destroyed spot!

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

So basically GUI spells that use Paladon's indexing system are not allowed? Paladon's indexing system uses smart loop and stops the loop when all is over (as good vJass spells do also), but it does not recycle the instances. Though when you use it well, you check with a boolean, or real comparison if the instance is still running, if not, it is immediately going to the next one,,

It still is quite a good indexing system, but recycling in GUI is way harder then in vJass, in vJass you move the struct variable to the destroyed spot,, in GUI, you have to move every variable you use to the destroyed spot!

I lol'd.

No. Anything GUI still blows, even if it uses Paladon's indexing system. OMG SMARTLOOP!!!

 

[Yixx]

xD,,
I just mean, it does not loop until some random number, but until the maximum instance number (unfortunately including stopped instances),, And when there are no more instances the number to which the loop runs (the number of Total instances) is set to 0.

And you are right, it still 'blows' as you say, but for the GUI people who dont want to learn the whole JASS package this is probably the best way to do this,,

 

[Eleandor]

Regardless of your opinion of GUI spells, it's just a really stupid reasoning to forbid spells that require 3rd party GUI tools, but allow spells that require 3rd party jass tools. Either allow both or allow none. Please be consistent in what you say because IMO that's one of the big problems of this site.

 

[redmarine]

Regardless of your opinion of GUI spells, it's just a really stupid reasoning to forbid spells that require 3rd party GUI tools, but allow spells that require 3rd party jass tools. Either allow both or allow none. Please be consistent in what you say because IMO that's one of the big problems of this site.

There are too many 3rd party GUI extension tools which are too messy and incompatible with the regular editor compared to 1 single scripted language(vJass) which is is JNPG.

 

[Eleandor]

I can think of 3, and I guess that's about 99% of all "extended" GUI's that are used:

UMSWE
WEU
EGUI

I don't know about EGUI, but I know for sure that UMSWE and WEU are compatible and both work in world edit newgen. UMSWE even comes with JNGP on default, just like jasshelper. So basically, they come with the same package but they're not allowed? Stupid.

Also note how there's also cJass, an extension to vJass. I don't see any rules about that either, so I really think the rules are inconsistent, as usual.

 

[PurplePoot]

I was wondering whether the MUI rule counts for systems related to heroes, like inventory stuff and so

Yes.

Even if it's of approvable quality right away?

Yes.

What's this kind of stupid rule? Next thing you do is prohibitting vjass because it requires jasshelper?

No. JassHelper is a standard and is widely available, and additionally the map does not instantly crash upon loading if you do not have it. Finally, such editors are becoming fairly obsolete, especially WEU (the big one).

SPELLS ON STRUCTS DOESN"T ACCEPTABLE?

Structs don't just blindly count up—they efficiently recycle indices. GUI spells which act similarly are fine.

How can I know the spell is compatible with 1.24 or not?

Test it in 1.24?

Something like this?

Yes.

other Indexing System is allowed, am I right?

If they aren't badly implemented like the one that you provided above as an example of a badly implemented one.

And, can somebody give me link to download patch 1.24? Is JNGP compatible with that?

Open Warcraft and change your server to Westfall (ClassicBeta), then log in. JNGP is compatible, although you need to replace its common.j.

I know what it stands for and I understand that it adds a more C++ like structure to the coding, I was just wondering if spells written under that would still be accepted.

No GUI third party editors. JassNewGen is not GUI.

So basically GUI spells that use Paladon's indexing system are not allowed? Paladon's indexing system uses smart loop and stops the loop when all is over (as good vJass spells do also), but it does not recycle the instances. Though when you use it well, you check with a boolean, or real comparison if the instance is still running, if not, it is immediately going to the next one,,

It still is quite a good indexing system, but recycling in GUI is way harder then in vJass, in vJass you move the struct variable to the destroyed spot,, in GUI, you have to move every variable you use to the destroyed spot!

I would have to examine it in detail, but if it does indeed actually competently recycle indices then it would be acceptable.

Also note how there's also cJass, an extension to vJass. I don't see any rules about that either, so I really think the rules are inconsistent, as usual.

I completely forgot about cJass; I should add a mention to that, thanks. I'll have to look into it more to see how stable/near to completion it is and how widespread it is, but I'm not convinced it will be supported.

 

[Eleandor]

No GUI third party editors. JassNewGen is not GUI.

Jass newgen is a PACK, containing UMSWE and jasshelper. UMSWE is not a 3rd party editor, it's an extension similar to how jasshelper is an extension.

 

[PurplePoot]

Jass newgen is a PACK, containing UMSWE and jasshelper. UMSWE is not a 3rd party editor, it's an extension similar to how jasshelper is an extension.

Ugh, I was referring to the JassHelper angle.

 

[Mage_Goo]

Open Warcraft and change your server to Westfall (ClassicBeta), then log in. JNGP is compatible, although you need to replace its common.j.

Any other way to download it? I can't open battle.net currently.

 

[Paladon]

I would have to examine it in detail, but if it does indeed actually competently recycle indices then it would be acceptable.

What a luck, it recycles and does not simply count upwards.

 

[Thanathos]

Any other way to download it? I can't open battle.net currently.

im having a similar problem cause i can´t even enter westfall since i have only acces to german versions of wc3.
Will v1.24 be released in the whole world at the same time ? What is if for example people form USA have the new version of wc3 before the people in europe do ? It would be kind of the staff if they wait until everyone has acces the new version, elseway this will cause a lot of problems since THW is an international website.

 

[redmarine]

im having a similar problem cause i can´t even enter westfall since i have only acces to german versions of wc3.
Will v1.24 be released in the whole world at the same time ? What is if for example people form USA have the new version of wc3 before the people in europe do ? It would be kind of the staff if they wait until everyone has acces the new version, elseway this will cause a lot of problems since THW is an international website.

Blizzard has always released all of the versions at the same time. I'm sure they're currently testing the English version.

 

[Squiggy]

Won't have much effect on me, thou - so Idc

 

[Deuterium]

Well, I guess old spell using indexing systems such those in the tutorials of Kingz and PurplePoot shouldn't be deleted off the server.

I mean yes hashtables would be better, but I think some of the people who made old GUI spells might not be around anymore to update. And even those around might be too lazy to re-update; laziness is no excuse, but I guess you know how some people could be...

 

[Paladon]

As it seems, those would still be approveable. So don't panic.

 

[Yixx]

I am sorry, i have made a mistake in my upper post, due to that I was not up-to-date on Paladon's indexing system. It, as seems, does recycle, when you use the Dynamic Recycle Indexing System ( I hope i name it right).
Thanks Paladon, for correcting me ,,

 

[Kwah]

Do not want cJass. If I recall correctly it's obscure, complicated and only used by the Russians.

 

[Thanathos]

[offtopic]

what the heck is cJAss ?

 

[Deuterium]

Well, it's another type of Jass, we usually work with vJass, but there are other versions... vJass is the best among them however.

 

[Kwah]

It's an obscure, complicated Jass variation that the Russians use.

Well, it's another type of Jass, we usually work with vJass, but there are other versions... vJass is the best among them however.

There are only 2.

 

[Deuterium]

wJass is the 3rd right?