Map Section - send us your thoughts!

Hi, today I re-read the Map Section rules and guidelines (a big thanks to Wolverabid for the major contribution to it, as well as the other moderators that contributed to it back then), and I noticed how outdated they were.

Instead of privately discussing this with the other moderators (where I personally think they would get little attention), I thought our Users would like to contribute to the new Map Section guidelines, as it is a democratic action and can further increase the quality of the current code of conduct.

NOTE: Before continuing to read this thread, it is advised that you read and understand the Hive Workshop's current Map Section Guidelines.
Thank you.

• First, I would like to say that I feel not all Map Section Moderators have been following the Map Rules as they should. They often make their decisions based on their own opinions. This is an authoritarianism act and should not be allowed.
• Second, the Rules are not flexible - they are complicated, they have an average grammatical, and they are big. A user will quickly get bored reading through the very first lines, and that's what most them do: they simply pass through the wall of text and click "I agree".

That is why I am creating this thread. What do you feel would be OK to add/fix in the current Map Section guidelines?

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My own thoughts...

Here are my own thoughts about the current rules:

Virtually any and all maps, regardless of talent. Every Warcraft modder must start somewhere.
Low-quality maps therefore, will not be ignored providing that obvious effort was put into creating them.

I have suggested that a new Reviewed status is created, in order to tell our users that the Map has been reviewed but was not approved due to lack of quality, since a "Low Quality" status would be humiliating.
I agree when it is said that "Every warcraft modder must start somewhere", however, telling them to try harder is as good (or even better) as approving their map. If we tell our starters to try again, both the user and the quality of our map section will most likely improve!

Protected maps. (...)
Maps created using third party software or altered by the use of map protection tools may be accepted. The author's description of such maps must clearly state that the map has been protected. (...)

I agree that they should contain a warning, however, 90% of the maps in our archive do not contain such a warning, and asking every author to put that warning in it is, obviously, futile.
What I recommend is that we advise the users to put that warning (for example, to avoid people asking why they can't open the map), and not demand that they put it, otherwise we might as well renew our archive, hehe

I also wish to discuss the map categories and labels. This is the outdated part and we should renew the labels and their descriptions.

My first thoughts:

• Categories:
  1. Other - Does it really make sense? The map has to fit one of the 4 others. If I'm wrong, please give me examples.
  2. Medieval - Should change to Medieval/Warcraft, people usually put "Other" because they don't get exactly what Medieval means.
• Labels/Types:
  1. Other is useless. Put Miscellaneous / Other in it's place.
  2. Strategy / Risk should be separated in my opinion. A risk game might be always a strategy game, but a strategy game is not always a risk game.
  
  In addition to this, there should be a link to Map Categorizing for the submitter in the Map-Uploading formula.
  Or, we could show the description when they pass their mouse over the labels, however, that would involve scripting, and scripting involves Ralle, who already has a ton of work to do.

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• Aeon of Strife (AoS): AoS is a popular map type that was brought to Warcraft by a map named Aeon of Strife. A very well known map of this type is DotA.
  AoS is a map type where you have 2 AI/Trigger-controlled computers that constantly send creeps from a base in their possession, in order to fight each other. Each team has an equal number of players, whose objective is to hire one of many different heroes and defeat the opposite team. In case the hero dies, it will revive.
  Examples: Age of Myths; Defense of the Ancients (DotA) Allstars, Land of Legends.
  

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• Altered Melee: Changed Melee maps to add new features. A good example would be Warcraft IV.
  The Altered Melee maps are common nowadays. They are usually created for the purpose of adding new races or a variety of new elements to the game.
  Examples: 12 Races, Creep Rebellion, Warcraft IV
  

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• Arena: This map type is very common. You pick a hero and, together with your team (or just you), you enter an arena to fight creeps.
  Examples:Orc Gladiators, Micro Arena
  

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• Campaign: Manipulatable with the Editor ever since the arrival of the Frozen Throne. A very good example would be Return of the Dragons by Darky28.
  A campaign is a set of missions that reveal a story chosen or created by the author. They are usually led by a single or multiple main characters. Please do NOT categorize individual maps as Campaigns.
  Examples: Nature's Call - Return of the Dragons, Return of Alisia Dragoon, Wanderers of Sorceria
  

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• Capture the Flag (CTF): Capture the Flag speaks for itself. Any map in which you have to capture a flag in order to win the game is suitable for this label.
  Examples:Elimination Tournament, Quake Wars
  

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• Cinematic: Cinematics are like movies/films, you do not play a game. Instead, you watch a story chosen/created by the author.
  In Blizzard's campaigns these map types were known as "Interludes".
  Examples: Creatures of the Night, Cult of the Damned, Shipwrecked
  

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• Defense / Survival: In this type of maps you have to survive waves of enemies that are thrown at you constantly.
  

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• Escape / Maze: Escape a maze or pass series of traps. Only then will you achieve victory.
  

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• Footmen Wars / Footmen Frenzy: You own a main in which footmen constantly spawn. You can upgrade your main in order to spawn better units, and you usually own a hero to guide your forces.
  Examples: Footmen Frenzy, LotR Frenzy, Skeleton Frenzy
  

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• Hero Arena: Hero Arenas are just like Arenas, however, instead of battling creeps, you duel with other heroes.
  Examples: Angel Arena, Diablo Arena, Anime Wars
  

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• Life of a Peasant (LoaP): In this genre you control a unit/hero and easily grow into simulating your existence. Have a house, get hired, get married and of course response in front of the law or probably the mafia.
  Examples: City of Drugs, Life of a Peasant
  

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• Melee: The original Real-Strategy-Game genre of Warcraft 1, II and III, Melee games are, of all genres, the most common on Battle.Net. In Battle.Net they are known as "BNet" games.
  Defeat your opponent using one of the 4 available races: Humans, Orcs, Undead or Night Elves.
  Strategy maps that contain melee techtress DO NOT go here.
  Examples: Echo Isles, Lost Temple, Twisted Meadows
  

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• Mini-Game: Simple and funny games that are either player or non-playable affiliated. Here you must complete some simple goals in order to gain a type of score that will determine you as the winner.
  Examples: Pirate Tag, Pyramid Escape, Uther's Party
  

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• Role Playing Game (RPG): The genre that includes a hero and the gameplay, in which you must level yourself and complete a series of quests that are related to each other. An important note about this genre is that it has a set storyline and the gameplay is strictly related to it. ORPGs are included in this map type.
  Not to be mistaken with RP maps, such as DoBRP or RARP.
  Examples: Defi4nc3 ORPG, Legacies, Ragos RPG
  

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• Shooting / FPS: In this game type you control an armed unit and you have the goal of shooting everything that comes in sight. In most maps, this genre has the main goal of escaping masses of hostile monsters or to eliminate your enemy.
  First-Person Shooter Maps are included here.
  Examples: Night of the Dead, Resident Evil, Doom
  

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• Strategy / Risk: In this game type there are several regions all across the map, and you must capture them in order to be victorious or as a mean to achieve victory.
  Strategy Games, such as Azeroth Wars Strategy, are also included here. Games where you have to train units from techtrees and capture control points (in order) to be victorious also go here.
  Examples: Azeroth Wars Strategy, Middle-Earth Risk, WoW Risk
  

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• Template / Terrain: The informative and artistic maps that tend to impress or to teach players about terraining. Non-Playable.
  NOTE: This map type will most likely be thrown out when the new Spells Section is complete.
  

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• Tower Defense/Tower Wars (TD and Maul): Tower Defense/Maul is a genre that consist in a group of monsters that spawn from a point and must reach the other.
  You own a worker unit that must build towers in order to stop the creeps from reaching sanctuary. If you let the creeps reach the location, you loose points, eventually loosing at 0 points.
  Examples: Green TD, Ryoko TD, Pokemon Maul
  

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• Miscellaneous/Other: Any map type that doesn't fit above. RP maps such as DoBRP, CotMRP and RARP are included here.

finaly someone is TRYING to do someitng

a big issue i have seen when i was a map modrater is qualty and people getting mad at me for speaking the truth

there needs to be some sort of template for QUALTY of the map so we dont end up with thousands and thousands of crummy maps

This is what I was talking about a minute ago!
Yes!
How long have you been away, and why if I may know?

This has my backing. Although, as apposed to having a 'Review' status, should we not make the rating system more predominant? The 'reviewed' status would come to be known as the 'messed up' maps and, eventually, would provide the same amount of ridicule as a map that has a sign saying 'low quality'.

The rules say that all maps are accepted, regardless of how good they are, as long as it works. It might not be the best map out there, but we all start somewhere. In the end, a map maybe bad however becoming an elitist bunch of hypocrites is a lot worse.

By that, I mean that we may eventually only approve the really top-end maps. We're also discouraging people from mapping because when they get a 'reviewed' status they will think to themselves "oh snap, my maps suck. Whats the point in spending X amounts of hours on that".

Would it not be better to, as I'd mentioned, make the rating system more noticeable? I.E If a map gets X on the rating scale, it gets X amounts of rep, assigned by the map reviewer, of course. Although that, too, has obvious flaws. I'm just fielding alternate ideas.

What do you lot think?

Originally Posted by Ash

Would it not be better to, as I'd mentioned, make the rating system more noticeable? I.E If a map gets X on the rating scale, it gets X amounts of rep, assigned by the map reviewer, of course. Although that, too, has obvious flaws. I'm just fielding alternate ideas.

Agreed!

The rating system needs to be more noticeable. I think the whole map displaying thing is just too large.
However, every part is essential and there is little that can be done.

We could, however, not mix the Map Author's name with the Submitter's name. The submitter should be changed to Details, before "Uploaded".

I think there should be an entirely seperate category for 'singleplayer' maps. No matter what style of singleplayer map it is, it should go into this one hole. Because really, it's a totally different playing field from anything else -- not to mention there's not that many of them, altogether.

Originally Posted by Rao Dao Zao

I think there should be an entirely seperate category for 'singleplayer' maps. No matter what style of singleplayer map it is, it should go into this one hole. Because really, it's a totally different playing field from anything else -- not to mention there's not that many of them, altogether.

I agree and most of those single player maps are campaigns. There were a own category for campaigns couple of months ago. I wonder where it went?

Ye, single player needs to be separated. Look at the campaign section. There's some sharpshooter demo there and a dozen of multiplayer maps. Some campaigns, like Med.MapGuy's campaigns, lack a preview picture. As for Med's campaigns, they lack proper description and moderator rating. I know it's subjective, but I think most old players will agree they are one of the best, if not THE best, custom campaigns ever made for WC3. Instead of being distinguished, they lie on the bottom of that dump. To sum up, it needs cleaning and separating, someone authorised, should take care of it.

Several weeks ago I PM-ed Ralle about that (about Med.MapGuy's campaigns), but no reply so far :/

Altough this is rather fabulous and ingenious,it would require a large number of moderators or a period of non-stop moderating.

Originally Posted by NearbyHermit

Altough this is rather fabulous and ingenious,it would require a large number of moderators or a period of non-stop moderating.

Well, I know me and Septimus have been rather active reviewing maps and stuff. I don't think it'd be overly hard, tbh. It's doable, and has been needed to be done for a long time.

Originally Posted by Ash

Well, I know me and Septimus have been rather active reviewing maps and stuff. I don't think it'd be overly hard, tbh. It's doable, and has been needed to be done for a long time.

Well,trust me,there are alot of maps out there,sorting/testing/rating them would take a whole lot of time.

Originally Posted by Ash

Well, I know me and Septimus have been rather active reviewing maps and stuff. I don't think it'd be overly hard, tbh. It's doable, and has been needed to be done for a long time.

Time for what exactly?

I don't have a lot of time for moderating. Right now I have about a few hours a week. It should open up after July, but I will also be gone for three weeks. Most of our moderators are similar. I know Firelord is gone right now.

Originally Posted by Gilles

Time for what exactly?

I don't have a lot of time for moderating. Right now I have about a few hours a week. It should open up after July, but I will also be gone for three weeks. Most of our moderators are similar. I know Firelord is gone right now.

I wasn't making reference to moderators, I was simply saying that a rule re-draft has been long overdue.

Originally Posted by Aeroblyctos

(...) There were a own category for campaigns couple of months ago. I wonder where it went?

The campaign has it's own label now, they are no longer separated.

By the way, I would like to renew the labels as well since they are no longer organized that way.

Map Categories:

• Lord of the Rings: Is your map's lore based on J.R.R. Tolkien's novel, Lord of the Rings? If yes, this is the right category for your map.
• Medieval/Warcraft (I suggested the name change earlier in this thread): If your map is not based on Lord of the Rings, and it has sword-fighting, archery, or anything medieval related, this is the right category for it.
• Modern Warfare: This category is meant for maps who contain fighting elements of our present world, like tanks. Red Alert-based maps are a perfect example of Modern Warfare (this still applies should they contain fantasy elements).
• Space and Aliens: Whenever your map is about space, this is definitely the category for your map.

Please provide your input for categories.

LotR-lore has its own catagory, but not Warcraft-lore...?