The State of Things

The problem with this whole 'defensive' argument is that it's an easy to use, prepackaged 'your argument is invalid' catch phrase.

It's really hard to find who thinks that way versus who just plain out disagrees with you.

For example, with the Ash thing (which is what most of you are arguing about right now), it wouldn't affect any resource mods or forum mods, and yet those are the people I see speaking out against it.

Originally Posted by PurplePoot

The good thing about the mini-mod thing is that it does give you some method of testing out people you're not exactly sure on, without giving them too much power in one go.

That the admins feel they have to do that is a major problem.

The main problems I see with promoting new positions, though, are;

• It's often hard to tell whether someone should indeed be promoted.
• We lack an abundance of users who are both willing and qualified to be a staff member in most positions (though this continues to be reacted with with under-moderation, which is perhaps the best solution).
• Also, as I said, with the lack of a resource mod rank now (which really needs to be reverted), they're getting far too much power in one jump. There were even some rather volatile consequences when the categories were first merged, and these were people who had been supposedly 'up to it' for a while.

Originally Posted by PurplePoot

Also, as I said, with the lack of a resource mod rank now (which really needs to be reverted), they're getting far too much power in one jump. There were even some rather volatile consequences when the categories were first merged, and these were people who had been supposedly 'up to it' for a while.

And since then, our powers have been reverted to what it was before the merge. So if anything, all we got was an unneeded change in rank image.

Originally Posted by Ash

There are two kinds of people on the Hive, the ones that suggest things and try to make improvements, and the ones who are constantly knocking things down, not making suggestions and are generally pessimistic or don't even know when issues are arising.

For a start, you're certainly in the latter category at the moment.

Okay, should I say "You for administrator" then? The moderators are decently positioned as they are.
What I said was not meant to attack you, if it was unclear.

Originally Posted by Ash

(...)

Some mods are extremely over stretched in their duties, due to others not being active etc, and maybe you should take the map moderating position into serious consideration, as after the pending maps are removed there will be lots of work to do, if you don't have the time and/or don't want to put the effort into it, should you not relinquish that position to someone who does?

When I said "entire life", it was an expression. I spend a lot of time, more than the amount I would like to spend, that is what I meant.
I have time to moderate maps and will do: you, Griffen and other people know that well; I have even been trying to lure people on chat to make tests with me.
So far, meeting up with some people from the Map Reviewers group has had better results, and the Chat is becoming rather spammy, so I stopped using it.

You seem, however, to be suggesting that I should resign from moderation. That is... calculative, cynical. Those are not exactly the words, but you know what I mean.

I'm really sorry for not joining your discussion but since i'm surely not in the position to judge about the situation because it would end up badly for me if i told my thoughts, but i have a suggestion - it may be a heavy one but in my opinion and after some years of expierience in different forums around the internet, the best.

Rearrange the staff.
Demote all of them, then choose new ones properly.
If anyone of you wants my moderator suggestions, he or she shall tell me.

Anyhow, i know, that most of you will either flame me for this posting, give me -rep or just ignore me because i'm not a so-called veteran user and only few users will interpret my suggestion right but that's the way it goes..

Regards,
Squiggy

No, I said you should resign from the map moderation position in order to focus more on the WEHF, and let someone who has the time to review a lot take over, possibly someone from your Reviewer group?

I didn't see the other thing as an 'attack' as per say, more so as a insult to the whole hive; everyone is saying points they don't like and the best the staff could come up with is 'I R SRY, I FUKIN LOLD AT DAT'. That goes for EF, too.

My opinions about the administrators.

Administrators

That's my opinions about the administration.

I'm just saying that you've been banned for long enough that I doubt you have any idea what even goes on there these days.

In other news, I'll defend EF until someone posts evidence of him randomly trolling/flaming, because every single time I see someone whine about him they fail to provide evidence to back up their claims, and I'm not active enough in the chat to actually see what goes on with him myself.

Originally Posted by PurplePoot

(...)
In other news, I'll defend EF until someone posts evidence of him randomly trolling/flaming, because every single time I see someone whine about him they fail to provide evidence to back up their claims, and I'm not active enough in the chat to actually see what goes on with him myself.

I agree. I have never seen EF doing such a thing. He also contributed significantly to the new Map Rules, I cannot imagine him doing things you mentioned here.

Judging by how the system works, I get the impression that they'd need full power over the WEHZ, or at the very least tagging power over every thread, to be able to do that.

Maybe... that wouldn't be such a bad idea. I mean not full admin powers, but giving users with a certain minimum reputation the ability to make modifications to a thread would be helpful.
To avoid abuses, you could:
- Make it wikipedia-ish, where mods could "undo" changes.
- Add a requirement where a suggested change must be approved by at least 4 other users; like there's a "suggestion" button at a thread where you can read suggestions and approve them.

I can hear some of you saying it'll put even more stress on mods, although I disagree. First, you'd need a certain amount of users to have the same point of view on something, which decreases the chance that a moderator has to "fix" things. If they DO need to fix something, they could still "easily" reverse a thread, if you're making it wikipedia alike.
Secondly, it could work as a flawless reputation system. You wouldn't "get" any reputation (nor would it be displayed), but moderators will be able to see your suggestions and base their judgement on this in case they might consider making you a moderator yourself.

On the other points I agree with Hakeem.

That is too much scripting, I fear, Eleandor. Your suggestion is interesting, but Ralle will never do that.

Originally Posted by Rui

That is too much scripting, I fear, Elenai. Your suggestion is interesting, but Ralle will never do that.

That's what I thought too. But I can always say it, and at least going off the current topic a bit probably prevented a flamewar here :p


(oh and I'm not Elenai. I'm NOT)

Originally Posted by FamousPker49

... and have chat powers?

I don't anymore. For perfectly valid reasons.

Originally Posted by PurplePoot

In other news, I'll defend EF until someone posts evidence of him randomly trolling/flaming, because every single time I see someone whine about him they fail to provide evidence to back up their claims, and I'm not active enough in the chat to actually see what goes on with him myself.

Originally Posted by Rui

I agree. I have never seen EF doing such a thing. He also contributed significantly to the new Map Rules, I cannot imagine him doing things you mentioned here.

It's actually kind of funny. I must admit, I'm guilty of a lot of shit. I try my best to improve and surpass my own stupidities, but that is actually quite a difficult feat. However, the funny part is that people are constantly accusing me of all sorts of crap; and yet, people barely ever, if ever at all, kick my ass when I'm actually in the wrong. People seem to choose random things to try and accuse me with.

Originally Posted by Steel_Stallion

You dont understand, i am not judging one person. I cannot judge one person, i am accounting the entire moderation team as a whole. Yes, because that is what it is. No, that is what it is SUPPOSED to be.

The entire moderation team is a group of individuals with varying opinions.

Originally Posted by Steel_Stallion

Then screw the system! If you cant use it, lose it.

It would do more harm than good. I just personally ignore it, excepting as a comment system.

As I said, removing it would just cause trouble, and then said people would just find another way to discriminate.

However, that's off-topic.

Steel, in general, the reason people aren't blaming the entire staff is because it's completely and utterly unproductive.

How are we supposed to get anywhere if you say "You're all at fault, I don't know why, but you are, now go fix it." when we are indeed in the process of attempting to fix it right now?