The State of Things - The Hive Workshop

**brad.dude03** · 08-08-2008, 04:55 AM

Hello fellow Hive Workshop Users. Some of you may know, and some of you may not be aware, that recently, a boiling-over of sorts occurred. This thread was created for the purpose of spreading whatever suggestions you have for Ralle and the Staff in general without fear of retribution. You need not fear voicing your true opinions, as long as they lay within the rules. Let's all say what needs to be said in a calm manner, so that we can really make some changes here. If you want to post anonymously, you can PM me your suggestion, and I will respect your privacy by posting it here for you.

Now, we need to have some sense of order. We will go from one issue to another, this way, everyone can have their say about a topic, and a solution can (hopefully) be reached, before moving onto another. Please note that, however valuable your post may be, if you interrupt the present topic, it may be deleted. I recommend writing your post in a word processor first, and then saving a copy on your harddrive, that way, in the event that it is deleted, you will have a copy to post when the time is right. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a private message.

I'll be watching the thread closely to make sure that no one violates the rules. And with that, may the first poster take the floor.

Ash · 08-08-2008, 04:59 AM

As the first subject, I'd like to jump into the deep end somewhat and talk about Admins. These are people who run the Hive, the manage day to day tasks and, should, be well known within the userbase. Only, there are 3 problems with that last sentence.

1) Our admins don't run the hive, they dictate it,

2) Our admins don't manage day to day tasks,

3) Who are our admins?

The third point ties in with our Webmaster, Ralle, who has been seen less and less lately. These are major issues for the hive, as without a functioning admin team, then we fail at the most rudimentary of tasks.

All in all, I can say that I know one admin. Ghan. Now, I'm sure he'll be mentioned later on, Ghan is usually seen about every now and then, although he hardly ever talks to users, or does as many things as he used to when he was ranked lower within the site.

Because of this, I propose that we talk about the skills needed to be an admin, what is expected of an admin and, if possible, a new way to elect admins.

**Traxamillion** · 08-08-2008, 05:16 AM

It feels as if less work is done by the admins and alot more uneeded babysitting. Also it seems as if the admins and even Forum mods are banning people left and right for stupid reasons..or just because they can. Also i feel like some of the admins are hypocrites and say things like dont spam or be mature...when they themselves contribute in on the fun and such.

**Hawkwing** · 08-08-2008, 05:27 AM

I myself have never really seen the admins doing much. I don't mean offense, perhaps they are doing things that some of us are unaware of. (e.g. the people that aren't really involved, such as people who aren't on the staff.)

Just speaking of the staff in general now, not just admins, the rules aren't really being upheld in the forums. At least not as much as they should be. It seems the users are upholding them instead now. I find I, and many others, are telling people not to double-post or necropost a fair amount, recently.

**Samuraid** · 08-08-2008, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkwing

perhaps they are doing things that some of us are unaware of

The work I do personally here...probably 75% of it never gets seen. That's just the nature of the job.

In fact, a few of the admins remain in contact numerous times per week with Ralle (via Skype) and nearly every day via email and instant messages.

This is not meant to say "wow, admins are perfect and any complaints against them are unfounded", but more to say "administrators are not reclusive pointless beings, we actually take care of a number of things and communicate behind the scenes a lot." Most of it goes by unseen.

frostwhisper · 08-08-2008, 05:54 AM

Okay, here are some thoughts...

The major areas:

Admins - As Ash said, the admins pretty much just dictate their set of rules with one hand and wave away with the other. They don't really spend productive, meaningful and closer time with the userbase. Take the chat room for example. There to bring us closer, yet the admins rarely come and if they do, seeing them speak is as scarce as actually seeing them help anybody by anything other than giving out a link to a tut or using a used-up line like "google it". Now I'm a dirty bastard myself, I've pushed away the ones who need help on several occasions, but I doubt the admins should do that.

Like Ash said, I'd like to see the admins around each day, posting, chatting, making new stuff, not as some random bots showing up randomly to close a thread or deliver punishment. An example is Ghan_04, who (in chat) is basically a silent image spam machine and a banhammer with no remorse, and (on the forums) appears only to close threads and cease discussions (as far as I have seen). This site is a community, and the admin-mod-user link is VITAL for the community to be a successful one.

Speaking of the chat... Here's the situation I see. And yes, I WILL point the finger this time.

Overlooking the Rules when it comes to a staff member - You see staff? I see a rule breaker, cloaked under the protection of his title. I'm talking about Earth-Fury, who, as far as I recall isn't at all active around the forums, let alone someone who moderates... anything. So, here's another thing I see quite to often:

Morning, small membership in the lobby (around 5-7 people), in comes a new guy. Asks a noob question. We send him away, E-F flames bitterly then disappears again. Comes in a smart new guy (in our case the user Draerlen), we start chatting, I see that he is a pretty awesome character, though new. In comes E-F RANDOMLY trolling Draerlen. Goes away. We continue on, I apologize to Draerlen for E-F's behavior via whisper. Minutes later, in he comes again randomly trolling and flaming and provoking the new user for each word he says without any justified reason! MIND YOU, HE'S WRONG EVEN! I know it, since the topic was software which I and Draerlen both understand better than him.

The end? Werewulf bans Draerlen for telling EF that his trolling is "pathetic"

- I receive that as flaming, frostwhisper - she says.
- And is EF immune just because he's your friend? - ask.
- Shut up. - she says.

... there you have it. An honest, good new user banned due to Earth-Fury's constant trolling, flaming, provoking and meaningless asshole-ish behavior. I do not condone this. I do not think that a user such as this should represent the Hive Workshop staff. To be, he deserves a strip of powers, and a good punishment. Let it be a ban/neg rep/infraction, you decide. I just want to see retribution for the sake of those newbies who are actually worth it. Like Draerlen.

So, we've got the absence of admins and the inappropriate behavior of some staff members which goes unnoticed. That alone is worthy of complaining about. But nah... there's more. Much more.

The Jury of Awesomness - Now this... organization, social group, whatever you wish to call it, has been the source of many fires recently, which are all fueled by the admins whose general behavior gives them the wrong impression of US.

Let me make a few points about the Jury:
1. We are a gathering of those of us who are well educated in terms of this internet site and known how to obey it's rules, enforce them and even prove those irrational ones wrong. On many occasions we have debated with moderators over punishments, proving ourselves correct, but are loathed instead of thanked and believed as power seeking trolls.

2. We are elitist. We have proven ourselves to the community of being more productive intellectually than the general mass of the "peons". We help those who need it, but will not hesitate to persecute you if you break rules while the admin is (excuse my French) picking his nose up in his nest without paying attention. That doesn't mean we're flamers. If rule-enforcing flamers were a threat to the community than the site would have been much better one Mechon short. But it's not in reality. The site needs people like Mecheon, but it also needs responsible users who are not on the staff working on other things (or supposed to be doing that anyway).

3. We have been gathered through the filter of an experienced modding and forum veteran, so our quality can be ensured, thank you very much.

4. Our out-of-site activities are nothing hostile, Hive. We come in peace! We just have a sense of humor that's apparently not to your liking. Bare with us. I can assure you our wiki articles will improve but promise us that you won't censor, ban and hang us for writing funny literature pieces and calling someone fat (as a joke). Besides, most of our sarcasm is VERY deserved.

5. We too, are sometimes cruel. But usually when cruelty is deserved. We're only human.

That being said, my plead is for the administration to co-operate and have more tolerance towards the Jury, because you know, that as a whole our organization is incredibly strong and always has a sober judgment.

Objection: I, however openly protest that Earth-Fury is on the Jury, because of the reasons I stated above. I believe that a user such as this should not represent the Jury in any way, for he will do exactly what I fear: give you the wrong impression of us.

So... admins away, crooked mods flaming unpunished, us enforcers being chased with torches and sticks so that several of us have actually resigned their positions on the staff or even left the site... I think we've got a serious problem.

Some minor things I've found disturbing:

- Dr Super Good's position on the staff: I feel that neither is he global moderating anything at all, nor is he a decent rule enforcer, usually causing more arguments than stopping any.

- The swift employment of may new users into the staff: I gotta tell you, you had one good hit. And that's Ash. People like MasterHaosis and Septimus however, who have approved a crapload of maps far beyond the minimum quality requirements and award them with great grades, and cannot take any civilized criticism without turning it into a flame war are not mod-material to me.

- Lack of activity in the Arena: Ya know, I approached Rui 6 times (2 in his profile and 4 via chat) to open up the long overdue Terrain Contest #3, without any answer. Complete ignore. It wasn't until Gilles came back form his vacation that someone started the competition. I really think some mods should get in shape and do their jobs at answering the users' needs (similar to the admins).

- Lack of good moderation in chat... yeah said it already, I'll add it again though. Admins come and ban, people like Fury flame without punishment. You do the math and tell me if I'm wrong or is this just not right.

Kay, now to some nifty suggestions I think I'd make (some inspired by other users' ideas):

- Long term users/users with certain amount of rep using grunt icon as a symbol to their tribute to the site.
- Possibly give those users the ability to read threads in the mod-only forum. Read. Not write in.
- Give option for color in chat for exceptional users who are very active.
- Allow users known to be responsible to the rules a trial of seven days with chat powers, which will be monitored and judged until it is decided either that the person can keep them, or that he cannot retain them due to irresponsibility. Seriously, more moderation from responsible and tough members is needed.

Basically that's all I came up with now, but mind you, I haven't slept in a long time. Now, where's my beer...

**Hawkwing** · 08-08-2008, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuraid

The work I do personally here...probably 75% of it never gets seen. That's just the nature of the job.

In fact, a few of the admins remain in contact numerous times per week with Ralle (via Skype) and nearly every day via email and instant messages.

This is not meant to say "wow, admins are perfect and any complaints against them are unfounded", but more to say "administrators are not reclusive pointless beings, we actually take care of a number of things and communicate behind the scenes a lot." Most of it goes by unseen.

Yes. That's exactly what I had expected. My point being you should make it a bit more evident of what you're doing. Aside from major site updates, of course.

**Traxamillion** · 08-08-2008, 06:05 AM

frsotwhisper is right on the money....everything he said is completely true and unbias

WILLTHEALMIGHTY · 08-08-2008, 06:25 AM

Everything is pretty deep in shit really. I smell anarchy.

frostwhisper · 08-08-2008, 06:30 AM

In this site anarchy cannot be the answer. A good admin-mod-user connection with lots of communication and team effort can make things change.

Instant Ramen · 08-08-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostwhisper

In this site anarchy cannot be the answer. A good admin-mod-user connection with lots of communication and team effort can make things change.

I would just say staff-user connection, but yeah.

**Samuraid** · 08-08-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkwing

Yes. That's exactly what I had expected. My point being you should make it a bit more evident of what you're doing. Aside from major site updates, of course.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but I'm not going to volunteer more time just for the sake of being more visible.

Besides, it would end up being a very boring set of updates for most anyone...

**Hawkwing** · 08-08-2008, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuraid

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but I'm not going to volunteer more time just for the sake of being more visible.

I'm not saying you have to. Im just saying you guys, as a team, should make it more obvious that you are doing work. You don't have to upright tell them or anything.

**MySpaceBarBroke** · 08-08-2008, 07:26 AM

About the Jury: I'm just going to come out and say it: The Jury of Awesomeness is nothing more than a gathering for smartasses. Being awesome, witty, or clever has nothing to do with it. All you need to do is live a trollish, sarcastic lifestyle and get on Griffen's good side. Don't take this as an insult, though. Out of the 72 custom user groups I am currently in, the Jury is one of the select few that actually mean something to me. It's a badge of honor. A bit rusty and made with cheap metal, but a badge of honor nonetheless, and, to be quite honest, at the highest point of productivity any custom user group can ever hope to amount to.

Earth-Fury sounds like a spell on Warcraft III that lets out vines resembling tentacle monsters: That being said, I have no opinion on EF, because he's an asshole that won't let me on his friend's list I don't socialize with him often, but

Quote:

Morning, small membership in the lobby (around 5-7 people), in comes a new guy. Asks a noob question. We send him away, E-F flames bitterly then disappears again. Comes in a smart new guy (in our case the user Draerlen), we start chatting, I see that he is a pretty awesome character, though new. In comes E-F RANDOMLY trolling Draerlen. Goes away. We continue on, I apologize to Draerlen for E-F's behavior via whisper. Minutes later, in he comes again randomly trolling and flaming and provoking the new user for each word he says without any justified reason! MIND YOU, HE'S WRONG EVEN! I know it, since the topic was software which I and Draerlen both understand better than him.

Can you be any more vague?

I don't know what it is in his hormones that inspires your utter rage and gnaws away at a huge chunk of you users' dignities, drastically degrading my opinion of you, but in my eyes, EF is just another smartass casual acquaintance in the sea of smartass casual acquaintances I find on the Hive (contrasting with the ocean of idiots).

Honestly, I've found people harder to get along with. Where do you get all this butthurt?

Dr Sticky Goo: He's that guy that sits at your table, but you don't want to hang out with at lunch. That being said, he got demoted to Global Mod, and, in my opinion, there's no reason for any of the higher-ups to take further action against him as long as he's not breaking any rules.

Admins: All the admins that are fun to talk with in chat and Ghan are pretty cool people. Ghan seems to contribute a lot to the site and, in return, we tolerate the pictures he posts on chat. As for the other admins, I'm not really sure what they do, but it's probably something really important like making sure the site works properly and saving pandas from extinction.

Hakeem: He's a fun guy.

Welp, that's all I have to get off my chest for now.

Scyth-Master · 08-08-2008, 09:03 AM

Well, I'm actually quite fine with the administrators and moderators. The administrators are abnormally kind to those that show kindness and progress, so they're not my key issue here.

My key issue, really, is the:

Arena:
The arena has become quite the mockery. It's contests are limited, and from those to choose you need certain talents and knowledge, yet for your current talents and knowledge there is mostly (if not practically always) never a contest that suits you correctly. Maybe you're a terrainer and you don't like ultimate terraining map, or maybe you like to edit models (or only know how to edit models) and can not make them from scratch, maybe you like ramen noodles and they're only serving spaghetti. Who knows. But I would like to see some general improvements in the rapidness, fun, and originality of the contests.

That said, I agree with FrostWhisper. Earth-Fury is a nuisance on chat.