1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. The Lich King demands your service! We've reached the 19th edition of the Icon Contest. Come along and make some chilling servants for the one true king.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. The 4th SFX Contest has started. Be sure to participate and have a fun factor in it.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The poll for the 21st Terraining Contest is LIVE. Be sure to check out the entries and vote for one.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. The results are out! Check them out.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Don’t forget to sign up for the Hive Cup. There’s a 555 EUR prize pool. Sign up now!
    Dismiss Notice
  8. The Hive Workshop Cup contest results have been announced! See the maps that'll be featured in the Hive Workshop Cup tournament!
    Dismiss Notice
  9. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Fingolfin, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Miss_Foxy

    Miss_Foxy

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,821
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I'm really sorry Vuormalainen, I won't do it again...
     
  2. Falafelkorv

    Falafelkorv

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    115
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Maybe "The brits did not overplan their operations"?
     
  3. Galagoz

    Galagoz

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    125
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    lots of effort into this map
     
  4. Miss_Foxy

    Miss_Foxy

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,821
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Lol. Fin is it just me or is there a hacked version of this map as well? I've seen one being hosted in Battle.Net and it says WW2: World In Flame, without the 's'. I was too laggy to downlaod it then.
     
  5. Vuormalainen

    Vuormalainen

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    567
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    On the asian battle.net server, or was it a bot hosting?
     
  6. Miss_Foxy

    Miss_Foxy

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,821
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Erm, it was a player in U.S West.
     
  7. kkots

    kkots

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    534
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    What about smoke/gas artillery/grenades?
    Take a look.
    • Invisibility
    • Events
      • Time - Every 1.00 seconds of game time
    • Conditions
    • Actions
      • -------- temp_group is a Unit Group, used to store units that were Invisibilited --------
      • -------- temp_point and temp_point2 are Point --------
      • -------- temp_unit is a Unit --------
      • -------- Invisibility's Stats - Targets Allowed field is empty --------
      • -------- Invisibility's Techtree - Requirements field is empty --------
      • -------- Invisibility's Stats - Mana Cost is 0 --------
      • -------- Dummy has invalid model path (omg.mdx) and no shadow, cannot attack, is invulnerable --------
      • -------- Dummy's movement type is None --------
      • -------- Dummy's Stats - Hide Minimap Display is true --------
      • Unit Group - Remove all units from temp_group
      • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units in (Playable map area) matching ((Unit-type of (Matching unit)) Equal to (Footman)) and do (Actions)
        • Loop - Actions
          • Set temp_point = (Position of (Picked unit))
          • Set temp_unit = (Picked unit)
          • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units within 512.00 of temp_point matching ((((Matching unit) is A ground unit) Equal to True) and ((Matching unit) Not equal to temp_unit))) and do (Actions)
            • Loop - Actions
              • Unit Group - Add (Picked unit) to temp_group
              • Set temp_point2 = (Position of (Picked unit))
              • Unit - Create 1 Dummy for Neutral Passive at temp_point2 facing Default building facing degrees
              • Unit - Add Invisibility to (Last created unit)
              • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility (Picked unit)
              • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point2)
          • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point)
      • -------- only those units who weren't just Invisibilited will get their buff removed --------
      • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units in (Playable map area) matching ((((Matching unit) is A ground unit) Equal to True) and ((((Matching unit) is in temp_group) Equal to False) and (((Matching unit) has buff Invisibility) Equal to True)))) and do (Actions)
        • Loop - actions
          • Unit - Remove Invisibility buff from (Picked unit)

    • Remove Dummy
    • Events
      • Unit - A unit Finishes casting an ability
    • Conditions
      • ((Unit-type of (Casting unit)) Equal to Dummy
    • Actions
      • Unit - Remove (Casting unit) from the game


    The example map is attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,191
    Resources:
    153
    Models:
    143
    Icons:
    1
    Packs:
    4
    Skins:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    153
    Yeah, we know how to code grenades, but we have mostly skipped them since it usually means ordering every single unit to cast a grenade, which is would consume a lot of time for the player. Also, adding it to artillery would be kinda counter-balancing, since artillery is one of the most imbalanced units in hte map at this point.

    Thirdly, your map leaks and is very ineficcient, you litterally group 90% of all the units on the map every second and then don't remove the group afterwards, which means that you have a massive group leak every second!
    Also, you could code it in a way that allows you to only create a single dummy each loop, which would make it even more eficcient.
    We also prefer to keep as much of our code as possible in JASS since it is much more reliable and allows you to see exactly what all the functions are really doing.

    Thank you for the effort though, the idea of smoke grenades is actually not that bad, infantry in this map is very exposed, and you could use smoke screens to allow them to pass across crucial points such as chokes or bridges (perhaps giving them an evasion buff).
     
  9. kkots

    kkots

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    534
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    You could add grenades as autocast. In my opinion, Parasite would suit, because it creates a projectile and auto-targets any enemies that are attacking or fighting. See:
    • Throw Grenade
    • Events
      • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
    • Conditions
      • (Ability being cast) Equal to Parasite
    • Actions
      • -------- trigger_count is Integer --------
      • -------- trigger_target and trigger_caster are Unit Array (100)
      • -------- Parasite's Data - Damage per Second should be high --------
      • -------- Parasite's Stats - Duration must be as little as possible --------
      • -------- Parasite's Stats - Buffs should be set to something without a model --------
      • Set trigger_target[trigger_count] = (Target unit of ability being cast)
      • Set trigger_caster[trigger_count] = (Casting unit)
      • Set trigger_count = (trigger_count + 1)
      • Wait 0.50 seconds
      • Set temp_point = (Position of trigger_target[0])
      • Special Effect - Create a special effect at temp_point using Objects\Spawnmodels\Other\NeutralBuildingExplosion\NeutralBuildingExplosion.mdl
      • Special Effect - Destroy (Last created special effect)
      • Unit - Cause trigger_caster[0] to damage circular area after 0.00 of radius 500.00 at temp_point, dealing 100.00 damage of attack type Siege and damage type Normal
      • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point)
      • Set trigger_count = (trigger_count - 1)
      • For each (Integer A) from 1 to trigger_count, do (Actions)
        • Loop - Actions
          • Set trigger_caster[((Integer A) - 1)] = trigger_caster[(Integer A)]
          • Set trigger_target[((Integer A) - 1)] = trigger_target[(Integer A)]


    Example is attached.

    Reply to 'insufficiency': If I use only one Dummy, then I'll have to instantly move it to a unit and order it to cast Invisibility. But abilities may not be cast momentarily. Something like this will not work:
    • Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 1 (Red) at (Position of Footman 0040 <gen>) facing Default building facing degrees
    • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility Footman 0040 <gen>
    • Unit - Move (Last created unit) instantly to (Position of Footman 0041 <gen>)
    • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility Footman 0041 <gen>
    • Unit - Remove (Last created unit) from the game


    EDIT: @Vuormalainen Khm, well... If I understand correctly, Fingolfin doesn't want infantry to use grenades, because that would require micro (manually ordering a unit to cast a spell). Using auto-cast abilities like Heal (Alliance Priest), Bloodlust (Horde Shaman) units can cast spells automatically, and in triggers' events that would be registered just like any other spell. So why not apply that to grenades, and infantry will throw them on its own.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  10. Vuormalainen

    Vuormalainen

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    567
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Trust me, we can code. ;) I'd rather like you to explain your idea.
     
  11. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,191
    Resources:
    153
    Models:
    143
    Icons:
    1
    Packs:
    4
    Skins:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    153
    Autocast sounds better, BUT:
    imagine that you have a group of freshly trained soldiers (in WiF, it is not uncommon that you attack with a group of 12-20 soldiers). Immediatelly when theese meet the enemy, every single one will lob off a grenade towards it at the same time, and having them stand around for a while will give the same effect (everyone being regenerated at once).

    Also, i'm not sure what grenades would be effective against. In the real war, everything was obviously built around killing soldiers. Even without vehicles, humans are so versatile; we can hide in the smallest pits and holes in the ground, not to mention trench in, and sneak up on tanks and plant mines on them etc. However, there is no way you can properly have this represented in such a stylized, macro-style game like this. That is why we have the rock, paper, scissor model instead - infantry are weak against light tanks, light tanks are weak against medium tanks, medium tanks are weak against heavy tanks, all tanks are weak against AT-guns, and AT-guns are weak against infantry. If we use grenades as a weapon against infantry, we will have an even growing arsenal of scissors to shred those poor little paper bag soldiers.
    And just imagine the epic shock value you would get from 12 soldiers throwing grenades at once.. it would be such a massacre that battles would only be about who gets the first strike (and building infantry would feel pretty vain).
     
  12. kkots

    kkots

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    534
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Then you could make a special unit-type - Grenadier, which is very expensive.
    But that's just my silly idea.

    EDIT: You may say something like, tanks have area damage too and are much better than grenadiers, so why make grenadiers if there are tanks

    EDIT2: Yes, interpreting trenches and little holes can be hard in Wc3. But at least you could make barricades, which save those hiding behind them from enemy's fire.
     
  13. Vuormalainen

    Vuormalainen

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    567
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    That's a more suitable way of doing it, at least if it automatically uses its smokegrenade. But we already had a pretty hard time with soldier and the current flamethrower unit and I'am wondering how we would get it balanced. But I also think it would make it annoying for the player as you already usually want infantry in higher numbers and you now would have to drop in some more special units as well. Also, as I've mentioned too many times, you don't really have time for such micro in WiF.

    Even if it's gonna be automatically using it the enemy will still need to move his units around from this cloud or spread them out in order for better results, right? Works in SC2 sure, but WiF isn't just that. WiF is more of a overview and larger scale game in which the major operations and management should matter rather than micro. But if we get the flamethrower-soldier "issue" solved I myself could consider it, but of course I'll let Fingolfin share his word on this as well :p. However, I do absolutely not consider it a priority but a nice addition indeed :)

    We have a lot of barricades actually, but most of them are for the look and easy view of pre-war borders and as well obviously some more on France's northern coast for example.
     
  14. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,191
    Resources:
    153
    Models:
    143
    Icons:
    1
    Packs:
    4
    Skins:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    153
    Vuorma, i think you are underrestimating the players ability to micro at some degree, there is NOTHING preventing a player from adding in an extra unit type or two into the mix, otherwise it would be a pretty braindead game. I think the only sane way to implement smoke grenades is to have a new unit type, but the problem there lies in the fact that we might need a new model in that case, and that will take up space. I could imagine having it as an ability on mortar teams, incase we decide to add those.

    As for the whole moving around part; smoke screens would do "one thang and one thang only", and that is to make infantry within it harder to hit (allied or enemy alike). I don't see why you'd need to spread untis around because of that, really. I am not against the idea of having units use active abilities for theese kind of specialized tasks, the part where micro becomes an issue in this game is when it is something you NEED to constantly do in order for your units to be at their best in battle, for instance the idea of having a "crouch/take cover" ability on infantry - that increases armor at the cost of speed - basically, you'd have to turn it on everytime you attack and turn it off everytime you move. That is just evil to the player. Same goes with artillery having to pack/unpack, just a true menace.

    So to make it short, if we add mortar teams, then yes, it would be really cool (and benificial for the balance of infantry) to give them smoke grenades as an ability. The only issue is wether we have the space to add those.

    EDIT:

    BATTLE STATIONS!!

    PREPARE FOR AWESOMENESS
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    You can read the whole thread here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  15. Miss_Foxy

    Miss_Foxy

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,821
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Omg how long did you take to make that? It's so nice, lol hopefully the poly count doesn't lag it.
     
  16. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,191
    Resources:
    153
    Models:
    143
    Icons:
    1
    Packs:
    4
    Skins:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    153
    It only has 100 more triangles than the cruiser.
    Besides, the upkeep cost of theese will be so brutal that you won't want more than 5 or 6.

    It is hard to estimate how long it took to make the whole thing, as you might recognize i uploaded pictures of the mesh several months ago and didn't work on it for a long period, but i could safely say that the texturing and wrapping took more than 8 hours.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
  17. Miss_Foxy

    Miss_Foxy

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,821
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Ooh, so we're being realistic here too about the actual costs, nice:)
     
  18. Vuormalainen

    Vuormalainen

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    567
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Now be a real fan and like WiF!
     
  19. Grievous1

    Grievous1

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    631
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Its seems the people at facebook thinks its a game and not a map maybe you should give the WiF FB Fansite more information like that you need warcraft 3 the frozen throne in order to play it anyway keep up the good work.
     
  20. Vuormalainen

    Vuormalainen

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    567
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    They're just trollin' :grin:
    It says pretty clearly in the information what it is doesn't it? :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011